Are these relations worse in work environments than they are in irl?
Anyone have any stories?
Are these relations worse in work environments than they are in irl?
Anyone have any stories?
I worked for a large company that was dealing with a massive lawsuit at the time. I was working within the payroll department and we were under extreme scrutiny and countless audits both external and internal. My manager was an SEI, the manager above her was SLE. The SLE and her were old friends who worked together for 10+ years and this is how I think she got into her position. As the lawsuit was wrapping up and it was looking like the company would likely owe hundreds of millions of dollars they started chopping off heads. One of the people that had to go was the SLE.
The woman who had replaced her was an LIE, she transferred from a small startup. She made an effort to meet every single person one-on-one working under her. The SLE never said a word to me or my teammates as long as she was there, but that's neither here nor there.
I met her and she told me about her career up to that point, she would drift from company to company. Usually, small ones where she could have maximum impact and then look for the next challenge.
My SEI supervisor was incompetent, frequently relying on people working under her to figure out what she needed to do as well as themselves. We supervised ourselves and she barely had any solutions or plans for us. By the way, this isn't a judgment on SEIs and I'm not saying she was SEI because she was incompetent, that just happened to be her sociotype.
In meetings the LIE would constantly question her; "what is your process for this?" "what is your plan for this?" "How is this done?" "why do it that way?" "did you think of this?"
She took these things as a personal insult to her and a way to undermine her. She would frequently try to evade responsibility for her failures and place them on us, but the LIE didn't fall for it and instead said out loud what everyone knew. The department was a disorganized mess because leadership didn't have a plan and they were living two decades behind technology-wise.
Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.
Yeah I gotta say I’ve run into trouble with them at work. Except for one who can do no wrong in my eyes. I generally get along with the confident and goal orientated ENFps.
Other ones have come off too pretentious. They can be way too serious and demanding, despite lacking the depth and level of responsibility it takes to be acting the way they are. Perhaps “overconfidence” is a better way to describe what I’ve experienced. They’re also stereotypical narcs. No sense of humour, suppress my activity or try to manipulate mine and others emotions etc. Like it’s an office, what do you want? A reward for being yourself? Lots of special snowflake energy that really creeps me out.
Why do I feel like Supervision is a common ITR in married couples. Besides Adam I seen 3 more LIEs married to SLIs on the internet, about 5 or 6 LSE married to INTJs on the internet, I know an SLE ESI couple. Is it a thing?
Hm I think supervision couples get together thinking they can make money together/ improve their quality of life. Maybe social climbers.
I need some advice on a supervision situation at work :/ May be a bit premature. In a couple of months I’m moving teams- back to my old team. There is an LIE lady on the team who is quite new and I worked with her for a month or so. I’m concerned we will have problems. I don’t think she’s a bad person, but I think she can be a bit of a bully without realising it. Also, when we first met she kept trying to arrange to meet up outside of work 1:1. She doesn’t seem to realise that friendships take time to develop. (I cannot ever see us ever being friends outside of work- we don’t have anything in common apart from past mental health problems lol). In my experience this isn’t enough to make a friendship work.
My job is quite casual and it’s in a frontline setting. So we can all get a bit on top of each other. I can predict the LIE and I getting a bit too comfortable with each other and then she’ll go and do something to spoil it like be really really rude to me. I recall her crossing a line more than once but I’m not very good at remembering details. She’s quite aggressive. My SEE line manager who is also aggressive hired her. I am kinda cool with my managers and I will go to them for support at the first sign of trouble. I think they would give me advice on how to stand up for myself..I probably need training on this
I’ve read on here that an LIE is capable of being nice to IEI when they respect them. I’m just a bit worried that she isn’t mentally capable of handling herself around me. She left her old job as a manager because she had a break down. I don’t know, maybe I’m not in the right job as this is the second person I’m finding it hard to deal with. However, I don’t see myself leaving for a while.
Hopefully she’s more settled into the job now and a bit more calm/ more aware of her effect on people. I’m not the only person who has had issues with her. Also, I really like everyone else. I just hope she realises that we’re not supposed to be best buddies. Maybe she’ll keep her distance a bit more. I think in supervision relations it takes two people to realise this for the relationship to be tolerable (especially if you clash in the first place).
Reading this over I realise I haven’t provided much detail about what she had actually done or said. It’s things like shouting in my face, putting me down ‘jokilly’, referring to my ‘mental health problems’ to explain away my concerns about something. Some of it is text book bad supervision. I think I’ll need to be really clear in communicating to her that she is being unprofessional/ antagonising/ a bully..
Last edited by Bethany; 05-22-2022 at 08:54 AM.
I was just thinking about this and talking to myself lol. ‘I am not letting people treat me like shit anymore. You need to be careful the way you talk to me. We are not friends, we are colleagues. You need to be polite to me and treat me with respect’. I could say that kinda thing. She’s like a clever, really rude child. Clever in a rude way, not necessarily in an intelligent way. Like some people on this forum lol and I don’t mean the LIEs
There was this nice SEE girl I got along with though, we both liked video games and she was nice to me. We both bonded over how str8 girls tend to like bad boys lololol. When the cunt said something mean about gay people, she just kinda looked at her angrily and shook her head. I'm like go get her tiger!!! LOL
Anyway. Fi valuers value respect, Fe valuers like warmth and 'nice-ness.' People have said before a lot of times Betas are actually too nice- but I think it's really adorable and a strength, not a weakness. And I might grow to respect somebody sure - but I'll never value it the way they do. My brain just doesn't care about respect the way Fi valuers do...
And yeah LIEs will get weirdly personal with me too especially on one one situations. It's important to set boundaries, especially for IEI- since we're often really nice and understanding/lenient about people's personal worlds and emotional vulnerabilities (to a point). So it makes people feel like they can dump on us and use us as emotional tampons. I'm not so sure you even have to be that direct with her- it can be a very subtle mental thing you know, setting up the boundaries in your head.
@Shazaam thanks for this. More later but ergh yeah you have to be careful with work friends. My IEE female work friend has abruptly turned into an arse for some reason. I think the friendship was indeed a bit too transactional. I would be ok with it except she’s the one who pushed for more. I have another female SLI friend at work. I am tempted to tell her about socionics..but I DO NOT want the LIE to find out about it. Omg, I think she’d harass me to death if I told her about it lol. I’ll think about what you’ve said lol.
Last edited by Bethany; 05-22-2022 at 08:06 PM.
My best work friend I have had was an IEI.
Haha I kinda just see it as I get to decide what things like 'respect' and 'kindness' are and a lack of those things are. Sometimes this just means calling people bad words, that's why those words exist too right? Maybe they should have dictionary definitions lol.
This LIE is particularly weird..a loose canon/ oddly feels like she's obsessed with me, I don't know if she's like that with other people.. I have a bit of time before I work with her but yeah I will handle it She needs to try a bit harder to be normal lol. I work with several other LIEs and they are all really cool with me so hopefully she can find a way lol. So yeah maybe I have to make her 'respect' me lol by calling her out on her arse-holery. In a nice, warm, careful way. With the support of my very cool managers who I've known a lot longer than her
Oh actually I am also ok with my LSE boss. He knows just how un-hard-working I am but he also knows I've been going though a lot. He actually seems to really like me and I don't really see why from how I must come across to him. But my work place is a very comfy, liberal place so it's kinda hard for him to not be nice, he would look bad if he wasn't. I think he appreciates that I don't complain as much as other people. My colleagues are ok but they’re a bit too precious about health and comfort concerns (specifically their own!). I don't know if it's contagious or it's just a middle-class people thing, or a certain type of middle-class people thing or simply a normal, healthy thing to some extent. I seem to get on better with the people who are a bit more true angsty and don’t really want to be there lol, or don't feel the need to pretend to look good.
Last edited by Bethany; 05-23-2022 at 10:27 AM.
Betas are revolutionaries. Se is extreme that pushes change- if the change isn't ready, Te pushes back harder. Even if it wasn't this LIE boss- it probably would be something else. I think socionics is based on the right personal distance with people... I got along with my LSE boss too. She was LSE-Si. If it was LSE-Te, probably different story. I really dislike Te, but everybody already knows that. I knew not to be myself or be 'internal' with her though- when I was younger and a lot more naive, I just wanted to be loved for who I really am. Not just being gay, but everything. My internal worlds...all my complicated idiosyncrasies. My other IEI and EIE friends accept this about me so dearly. I don't have to demand, plead, beg, unnaturally change, or manipulate. It's nice. I see you and appreciate you.
Probably-ESI Aramas said something about how Supervisors actually should listen to their Supervisees not the other way around. I agreed. She probably wants to learn from you, but because of the Supervisor thing- you find her off putting.
@Shazamm yeah an EIE colleague actually stepped in and saved my butt earlier today. Out of nowhere, I guess she secretly cares lol. Aw you make me really really want to get back in touch with my high school EIE friend. She was just so silly n stuff and easy to talk to.
Fortunately, the LIE is not my actual manager. She was a manager in her old job but not anymore- she's the same level as me. I probably just need to mind my own business a bit more and read a book or something. I can deal with the normal-ness of my job, as long as my life outside of it gets a bit better haha. I do judge them all a bit, there was a LII who committed suicide and she'd been there a long time. I guess it can happen anywhere, but I don't think managers talk to their superiors enough about their direct reports, even though they are quite good line managers. You kinda have to learn how to manage your managers lol. I should probably give my LSE boss more advice lol. He is also LSE-si. He has tried to run things past me in the past haha. He said I'm honest about stuff and I can predict how everyone else will react. It's a bit annoying when he keeps pointing out how calm I am and I want to say- no depressed! I have pretty much let myself fall apart in front of the whole team now..(I'm ok don't worry lol). But I don't feel as embarrassed as I thought I would if this happened, it just makes me think well let's see who is going to stick by me and who isn't Your choice, be careful how you make it!
Let your Mirror cast Buff, Empower, Shell & Protect on u. And Te is Okay as Long as it's not above 2D-aga.
Don't give in to some of your darker Beta impulses. Beta most closely to animal nature. Not good or bad, 'it just is.' Deltas are annoying, but no reason to give them any fire they can fire you with. The "Unhealthy" ones will make up something anyway, but that's fine- you can laugh it off. They'll be back to their little Delta world soon enough- they aren't going to want to risk dirtying themselves by interacting with you longer than they need to. LoL.
lol I kinda split IEEs into good/bad/ok. My good IEE friend pissed me off for a while and I stopped caring so much and then he told me he values my opinions on things and we'll be friends for life. I think some friends become more like a brother or sister in a way. He is friends with my sister too so it does feel a bit like family. He's also gay and moved from his home country to live somewhere more tolerant. Some people need Betas in their life..
Yeah giving into the bad impulses back fires a bit, but you have to do it to realise that.
It come off as insincere, and IEIs value sincerity. This isn't always true, I love @Kim for example because she was nice to me for real- not fake. But these negative stereotypes of types come out for a reason, because most people of that type do fit the negative stereotype. So I understand what you mean about IEEs. When people bad mouth the types here, sometimes it's hard not to take it personally. They're not talking about you, but they said your type- so are they talking about you? Heh.
Yeah IEI and IEE are different and IEI are more authentic and trustworthy. I’ve know my IEE male friend a while now and I think the friendship is established and will last a while more. Maybe I like having a delta around coz my dad is delta. I also like having a male friend who isn’t straight, the energy is good and we’re a good amount of similar and different. He’s more sensitive than other guys but he’s also not meek. In my annoyance with the female IEE friend (that friendship is getting relegated to work only, the bond is simply not true enough or warm enough) well yeah I started thinking about how IEEs have this inner demon that gets unleashed every now and again. But I kinda like having some demon types in my life. I’m on a long term break from my ILI friend. But I miss something about that friendship. I kinda like having friends who have a dark side, it reminds me that they need me because I’m somehow good at making them feel less depressed. Also, when you have established trust in a friendship, you know that person will be careful not to direct that darkness at you. My shared interest with the IEE is dancing to either really dark or really happy music- we both need to escape our demons once in a while. He finds all the good music too..
I think what I’m missing atm is a bright, cheerful silly friend. Like my old EIE-fe friend. (Outwardly bright anyway!) I can be a moody IEI but I really like people, I don’t know if that’s an attachment issue haha, or just me. I’m much more E9 than E4. I need people who will take me on adventures as well as people who understand me It’s funny I used to have a lot more friends, I didn’t plan on only having a few. When my dad had a bday party recently he had quite a few friends there. I’m not sure that’ll be me in my 60s. Maybe by then I’ll forgive all the weirdos who used and abused me (exaggerating but not..) :/
And her fate was avoided, because she had a sassy gay Shazaam
Well I managed to patch things up with the female IEE. She is the fi subtype and one good thing about that is that I can tell her off and she can take it. She wants to be reasonable so I should be ok asking her to be.
Also, I realised that the underlying reason I’m feeling alienated and unmotivated at work is because I haven’t been getting the correct support. This week I started keeping to myself a bit more but then I actually noticed everyone being nice to me- I realise I’ve been really in my own head (isolated), tired and starting to not care about the students I help on a daily basis. Well, after the convo with @Shazaam, and a convo with a nice ESI colleague (I am definitely starting to see the magic of ESIs) and also getting some bad news from my manager, I realised something needed to be done.
Basically, I realised that my complaints about someone harassing me have been ignored. And it’s taken me a while, but I realised that is not what should have been done. And I’ve told them. It seems like this could be rectified..will have to see. I’m not even asking for much- just for the person to be talked to about it. What is it with some clever/confident type people that makes them think they’re untouchable/ incapable of being wrong and not able to understand responsibility?
It’s so strange being a stressed out IEI..but with more self-awareness than I used to have. I don’t remember being this up and down. But I think I was more consistently low level depressed where as now I’m trying to reach more normal levels of goodness without being scared to feel bad sometimes.
Last edited by Bethany; 05-29-2022 at 10:45 AM.
So my ILI mom actually has an LSE boss. Which means, she socionically supervises her boss. And it shows.
She considers him a competent leader in some respects but bewilderingly retarded in others. She often talks to me about how she can’t believe someone can put together such good decisions and later undo all the work he has done by his lack of foresight.
ďLife shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.Ē
― Anais Nin
Best to know your work place harassment policy very well. Read and re-read. Know the policy better than your traitorous managers lol.
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