Has any one heard of iboga tabernanthe?
Has anyone used it before, and feels comfortable mentioning it?
Iboga / ibogaine
Has any one heard of iboga tabernanthe?
Has anyone used it before, and feels comfortable mentioning it?
Someone once told me that the most connected he has felt to his SO was when he was on iboga. I'd like to try it.
By wikipedia it's a hallucinogene. I recommend to look medical consequences of such substances.
It also has other risks.
Do the risks outweigh the risks of staying addicted to substances? What about the risk of chronic conditions and mental health problems?
Very curious about this topic.
There might soon be distribution clinics à la gabor maté
I was a little surprised to see Gabor Mates name attached to ibogaine recently. He was at the center of the opioid crisis in Vancouver (I've typed him EII for now). I also live in British Columbia. The crisis here is astronomical, there are thousands of homeless drugs abusers living on Vancouver's main Street, the worst levels on the continent. It's like seeing Armageddon.Originally Posted by Kalinoche buenanoche
Safe injection sites started in Vancouver about 20 years ago and the concept spread to other places.
I dont watch a lot of Gabor videos, his style of talking is so slow, but I do appreciate his messages about tramuas being related to drug abuse, although I think there is more as well.
Seeing him discuss ibogaine was releaving because it's just one more authoritative voice in league with its massive benefits to society.
To bad it won't be used though, because of the risks to the heart (which can be easily mitigated) and the undermining of the pharmaceutical industry cash cow of legal opioids (methadone, Suboxone ect).
Can't make billions off a nature made molecules, and why bother curing something when you can cure symptoms and create dependency. Not that I think methadone doesn't work, it does, but ibogaine has a, conservatively 40-90% efficacy rate for opioid addiction for several months, and for some a lifetime, from a single flood dose. Other require multiple flood doses. Nothing in the pharmacologic world comes even close to these types of results.
Plus the psychedelic complement allows people to understand their own psyches with insight, something that is severally lacking in many with drug addictions.
Ibogaine has also been shown to be effective for other addictions, like alcohol and cocaine ect, and in animal modals, complete cures has been proven. Rats don't have a complex psyche, so having them skip cocaine laced water after ibogaine administration, is proof of concept (more efficacy than the fake vax).
Finally, ibogaine resets dopamine receptor sites back to square one, and has huge implications for depression, anxiety, PTSD, and more. Btw that's not an exaggeration.
It also effects GABA feed backs and has massive implications for Parkinson's disease.
There are underground railroad clinics all over the world. Canada, mexico, Thailand, Costa Rica, to name a few. Many more in Europe. It remains illegal in the USA, but we all know how fucked the US is. Eventually there will be clinics everywhere and rightly so, because it works.
It's not a complete cure btw, people still need therapy, aftercare, to change their habits, friends, beliefs, but it does give people a break, even just 3 months, and some forever, from their cravings, withdrawals. Imagine how motivated people would feel if they are not depressed, and craving during recovery?
motivated to do what?
Motivated to not use drugs and alcohol. Motivated to clean themselves up. Motivated to live free from addiction. Motivated to change what needs to be changed. Motivated to heal what needs to be healed. Motivated to grow. Motivated to have the life they want without cravings, or withdrawals, or the endless cycles of guilt and shame and self-loathing and self-hate and other hate.
Motivated to do anything without the affliction of depression. Motivated to be sober without feeling like living in a prison, with true happiness beyond reach because of the war zone inside their physical brain.
Motivated to "do the work". How hard is it to be in recovery when you never actually "feel" recovered? Sobriety is just the first step.
12 step programs have a %10 success rate? The current way of doing things is not working.
Here is a decent primer:
Another primer:
In case you thought this was 'just' for alternative hippies
Watch Amber discuss what happened to her alcoholic Navy Seal husband, Marcus. Very conservatives, Christian couple from middle class America:
the parts about Ibogaine start at 2 hours and 10 minutes
amber starts at 2 hours 26 minutes.
Btw drug and alcohol substance abuse has greatly impacted my life. I am not a user myself, but many close loved ones and friends have had and continue to have this struggle. it destroys lives, it destroys families, it destroys the spirit inside that animates us. its a huge fucking problem and its part of why societies are disintegrating. living with a diminished capacity to enjoy life and live it, inside a hallowed out shell. if you know what I am talking about or struggling yourself, please at least give this some food for thought.
Here is an excellent short film about what the waking dream experience during an ibogaine trip looks like. Please note that ibogaine not only gives one visions that help solve psychological puzzles, the molecule itself literally also fixes the dopamine receptor sites in one's nerve tissues, among several other key pathways it improves. A dual action. These have also been studied in clinical trials, so its not "spoof"
Not a cure, but a slim, opportunity to see beyond the addicted false self, into the deeper, true nature of being. The journey brings healing. A chance, even for a couple months, to be clean and free. Allowing people to change their own lives, if they choose.
The individual content of the dream is not as important as the message they convey. So if you are the type of obtuse person who can't see beyond appearances, I invite you to try.
@Kalinoche buenanoche
Loving the mention timbibiru <3 I can see myself trying iboga without having to be lured by the promise of seeing beyond appearances because that would be an appearance as well or something something
I hear you. I think I'm talking about people who view this a "dream" and therefore inconsequential and "not real". You know, the 'obvious' (oblivious?) types.
If I can see any IE in searching through past memories, its Ni - Ne second, ethics, and some Si.
This reminds me of the story i read about a guru and his disciple (ramana maharshi and poonja respectively). The disciple asked the guru why he should go save his family in Pakistan during the uproars if this is just a dream and the guru said something along the lines of him having to do it anyway or maybe he just said 'why not'. So yes, "going on" (just) to uncover fearful corners of the mind can resonate (pretty katie byron-ish), and I see how this can fuel an iboga trip.
I hear what you are saying. I think I mean to say that the Ibogaine state is not revealing that life is a dream, perse. I mean to say that ibogaine is showing, via a dream-like-movie, the content of one's life experiences, wherein the ibogaine user is objectively seeing their life, the events that occurred from an outsider's perspective, therefore allowing them to find personal insight. Instead of being the dream, they are the dreamer.
I am familiar with Ramana Maharshi, I am also familiar with the concept of life being a dream, in the sense that its contents can only be viewed from one's mind. Is dharma real? Or apparently so...? interesting non-dual states to ponder.
But back to ibogaine, I think my definition is far more tangible and accessible. You don't fall asleep, and yet you experience your entire bank of memories in a dream-like way. Dreams change, morph, show metaphor, imagery, feeling, ect.
I think similar to how dreams unfold biologically, as the mind's eye replays the days/ weeks/ events, in similar timelines, yet with different imagery. A large wall you cannot climb in a dream could mean your subconscious feelings you have towards a unobtainable goal, for example.
So as the ibogaine molecule works its way through the nerve cells, interacting with neuropeptide receptor sites, and up regulating GNFP, in the same way dreaming brings homeostatic effects to the mind-body as a whole, this processed is amplified, greatly, by the ibogaine. Without dreaming, an individual will go mad and eventually die. It's built into the hardware.
The ibogaine literally puts one into a waking dream. Remember, many people have no clue how to process their experiences, and so these experiences, these seeds of trauma, extending far, far back into the organism's history and recorded by neurons, albeit in the subconscious level of consciousness, have lasting effects and upstream consequences, both physically, and psycho-emotionally. Right?
These consequences play out years, even decades down the road, and then build their own momentum with added emotionally charged moments, over woven onto the original core motivating event. This is not to speak on actual genetic markers of issues, I'm discussing root memories.
Taking a reflexive look at core memories and the thoughts, feelings, emotions, even non-ethic considerations of the moment, is something that many people could benefit from, including those who suffer from anxiety, depression, addictions, ect. All of these mental illnesses, can one find their genesis ?
When that small little Lucy felt the fear and worry of her Mother when her Father lost his job from drinking and couldn't pay the gas bill and then they would all need to sleep with their clothes on under the blankets. Now at 42 she surrounds herself with articles of comfort and is afraid of men for always bringing disappointment.
And you could imagine a million different scenarios that might show up in one's a dream.
Wrote in the quote
Interesting... GDNF
@Kalinoche buenanoche
From what I understand, its not more advanced, or more purposeful. Both REM and deep wave sleep serve their purpose and we need both. REMs happen in the late, late night, early morning. You need to REM to defrag the brain. Without you will experience psychosis and this has been proven so its not controversial.I think this is the first time I come across this idea. I have read that dreamless sleep is an 'advanced' state to be in actually.
Of course it does. Absolutely. I mean probably for most of us. Maybe there are people who have like instant spontaneous enlightenment and skip the cause and effect awareness of their personal fetters, but I mean, otherwise, understanding with awareness and some measure of objectibility the causal nature of your reality definitely will help. Although, I'm sorry but this exploration does not come naturally to certain sociotypes. I do buy into the Socionic frame work to describe the strata, maybe in part, of the human mind. So.
I don't know whether this is true for everyone but I see how coming up with a cause-effect narrative can bring peace.
Yes, defiantly I do have this view, and my thoughts on it are very complex, I can't really write well enough to do it justice, plus my brush with a narc has altered my opinion about it. I do think even though at its root, no-one is running the ship, we live in a world were apparently something, someone is, and we need to inhabit that world. Right? But I think treatment can happen, yes. totally. Otherwise what hope is there? I mean the rebirth of Jesus in the light of God is just a metaphor for this process anyway. "None of the past will matter...I have been forgiven". Ancient psychological technology.I know that you have come across the view that there is noone to find their genesis or to even confirm their existence, yet apparent treatment can happen.
No it was just an illustration. In the Freudian sense. Its like, all leaves an imprint on the screen of reality. I mean, we look far into the outer universe and see the imprint of what was. In a similar way, we can see the imprint of what was, or occurred, in the individual. I'm speaking about nurture, instead of nature (genetic predeterminism). Really facing the truth of your behaviours and looking at the genesis. Very sobering. You can no longer claim ignorance after a vision like that.You have a friend like that?
Mm-hmm.Indeed, and the randomness does not prevent us from playing the game of the wellness journey.
More research presentation.
Interesting research over GDNF and BDNF, NGF growth factors produced and attenuated and released by ibogaine molecules in the brain. Rat models.
Useful for addiction pathways. Glial cell-lined derived neurotrophic factors build neurone axions, mostly occurring in babies. Brain derived neurotropic factors plays important part in neuron growth and survival, neurotransmitters modulator, plasticity, essential for learning and memory. Noribogaine, the active metabolite of ibogaine, acts as a anti-deppressent and is found in fat cells months after ibogaine ingestion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WHmSu-MUFI
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...43661822005667Ibogaine is a powerful psychoactive substance that not only alters perception, mood and affect, but also stops addictive behaviors. Ibogaine has a very long history of ethnobotanical use in low doses to combat fatigue, hunger and thirst and, in high doses as a sacrament in African ritual contexts. In the 1960's, American and European self-help groups provided public testimonials that a single dose of ibogaine alleviated drug craving, opioid withdrawal symptoms, and prevented relapse for weeks, months and sometimes years. Ibogaine is rapidly demethylated by first-pass metabolism to a long-acting metabolite noribogaine. Ibogaine and its metabolite interact with two or more CNS targets simultaneously and both drugs have demonstrated predictive validity in animal models of addiction. Online forums endorse the benefits of ibogaine as an “addiction interrupter” and present-day estimates suggest that more than ten thousand people have sought treatment in countries where the drug is unregulated. Open label pilot studies of ibogaine-assisted drug detoxification have shown positive benefit in treating addiction. Ibogaine, granted regulatory approval for human testing in a Phase 1/2a clinical trial, joins the current landscape of psychedelic medicines in clinical development.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...79612318300979Ibogaine is a tryptamine. Its action is complex, affecting several different neurotransmitters at the same time. It appears to possess important affinities for N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA), kappa-opioid, sigma, and nicotine receptors. Ibogaine's action at the kappa-opioid receptor is likely to contribute to its psychoactive effects (Zubaran et al., 1999). It is thought that the weak agonistic action of ibogaine on the serotonin 5HT2A receptor (Glick and Maisonneuve, 1998; Helsley et al., 1998) may contribute to its hallucinogenic effects (Wei et al., 1998). Dopamine levels are not only lowered by ibogaine, but also its breakdown is enhanced (Glick et al., 2001). Ibogaine may work in reversing the effects of opiates on gene expression, with resulting impacts on neuroreceptors, returning them to a pre-addiction condition (Brackenridge, 2010).
So, beyond the heart concerns, why is not iboga/ibogaine being used to treat all kinds of mental health and addiction problems plaguing humanity, society?
Is it because, addiction is BIG business? I mean, on suboxone and methadone alone, the pharm companies make BILLIONS of dollar per year....
Maybe the cash cow is what keeps cures out of the main stream? Keep ibogaine on the FDA list of Schedule 1 drugs, all the drugs that have no known medical use.
Clearly, ibogaine has lots of medical use, and its been proven in animal models and several studies outside of the US, that have shown its effectiveness in curing, and interrupting, entrench addictions. ...CPST, PTSD, alcoholism, depression, anxiety.
The Opiod epidemic, caused by pharmaceutical companies, coming out of the late 90's, 2000s, makes a lot of money for many corporations. So ofc they would not want people curing themselves when they can just stay life long users of replacement opiod therapy.
Cha-ching$$$$$$$$
Why can't we think outside the box? If you had a loved one, your daughter, your husband, who had substance abuse disorder, who had impossible depression, would you not do anything you could for them, even trying a root bark, that might break their life long misery and diminished time of Earth? Of course you would. You would try anything. Even if it had some risk.
Ibogaine has a >%60 interruption and cure rate. Methadone has <%15-20. Which would you choose? One is a patented drug, the other comes from a plant. In a couple of sessions, years worth of intense psycho therapy condensed into an evening... there is change to be free. To obtain your birth right as a sovereign human being.
"Ibogaine saved my life, it saved my marriage, and it kept my family together, and it will heal for generations to come."
A good friend of mine went to Thailand (we are in Australia) and did an ibogaine based drug rehab for heroin addiction, it did work really well while he was there, even after the rehab he stayed in Thailand for a long time living clean just using ibogaine occasionally, but when he eventually came back home to his usual environment surrounded by the same old people and where there was no ibogaine he just drifted back into the smack use. There is no one single thing such as ibogaine that can break your addiction, you have to change your entire lifestyle and surroundings so that are as few aspects as possible in your new life that are the same as aspects of your life of addiction.
Dr. Debrah Mash, the person who first isolated ibogaine alkaloid from iboga root. She is also the top researcher in USA.
So I think I'm actually going to go for it sometime in the near future. I've been in contact with some underground sources, and I think I will do it at my mtn cabin where I live. I just realize as time goes on, after all I've been through, and all the trials, achievements, set backs, failures, grief, mistakes, pain, hope, triumphs, its just somewhere along the way I become split inside. Not just a single crack, but many. I'm still functioning and doing, and accomplishing and living and surviving. I just thought after I got to where I dreamed I would be, through all the struggles, that I would "arrive", and its like the journeys themselves change you to the point where you no longer can feel like you made it. Like the horizon shrunk.
Basically its relationships and trust. That word, the t word. My last ltr was so devastating and impactful, it traumatized me from the inside out. From my CNS to the very fabric of my being. even after 9 months, although the acute sting and limbic numbness has faded, and I'm happy again, I still feel the results of that internal split inside my heart. And I know that time won't heal this one, fully. That place inside me, that place I used to hold so firmly as intact, and whole, and dignified, it was called into question over and over, that sometimes I don't know who and what I am anymore. And those doubts come haunting my mind at worst moments. When I'm with a lover, when I have chainsaw in my hand and 5000 lbs of cedar tree standing towering over me. Even my relationships, especially romantic ones, feel so disheartening, such a big thing to unpack and I'm not sure even therapy could do it. I really wonder if a plant medicine can help me heal ald these broken cracks and splits. So that I can touch life without the burdens of intrusive minds whirlpools. Trust me, trust you, trust us, trust it. But I also feel like I'm own the cusp of this wholeness, or completeness.
So I'm just going to buy it, I think I'll work with a low level shaman type characters, or even just do it myself. Having someone there though, who is caring for the moment, would help my mind relax enough to heal instead of breaking concentration. There are risks, but those can be mitigated. Without risk there can be no high reward and as a tree faller I know that all to well. We minimize risks, by recognizing them and controlling them. The best way to control a risk is to eliminate it. But maybe this mental habit is keeping me from growing into the man I'm supposed to be?
Even writing this actually feels healing.
Last edited by timber; 02-24-2024 at 05:02 PM.
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