??Originally Posted by Adam Strange
And you live in a country whose media and President have been breathlessly warning over a Russian invasion any second now for the past few months. I would be more worried about the state of the US than whatever's happening in Russia.
I am entirely more concerned about what happens in the States than what happens in Russia, but there seem to be a lot of Very Serious People who think we should intervene over there.
I just don’t see any profit in such an intervention. Better to just stop sending them stuff we make, and let them enjoy life in the freezing mud.
Why is half the world trying to get into the US and half of Russia is trying to leave Russia?
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Russia has capitalism, the US has capitalism and freedom.
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I read the National wage-salary average in Russia is in the $50,000s.
It's in the 50,000 ruble/month range. A Ruble is worth 1.3 cents (and falling). That works out to about $650/month, or $7,800/yr.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-nominal-wage/
https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/currency
that would put it on par with the US, not with the half-developed country it really is
Yeah, that's definitely in rubles or only accounting for Moscow and St. Petersburg. Absolutely no way the national average is that high.
Take into account that "ukraine" is not important for the ones who controls USA and global capitals. It's war against Russia and humanistic future of humanity which Russia somehow protects.
The war by hands of Russians living at borderland which are occupied since 2014 by USA/EU with local hithlerists, hands of islamists which were intentionally given by USA modern weapon recently in Afganistan same as before were supported in Syria, and some hired ones and special forces soldiers from different places.
World changes. Wars and done by "covid protections" mass killing and new slavery. Seems we live in Bible armageddon times. It's funny to be here, if it's so. It still is not known exactly how souls/minds will be harmed - mb by changes in DNA alike "covid vaccine" does. It's evident possible that people who do not follow orders of "rulers" will can't to have incomes and to buy products as Bible said, - are excluded from modern technology life, doomed to die, will be prisoned (it's discussed to make death? "camps" alike Hithler did).
What useful I may do in these times? I was not leaded to live as average, at least. Mb will do. I had religious experience related to monotheism.
Is Ukrainian neutrality really such a bad compromise? Why does it have to either join NATO or become Russian?
Why not let the Ukrainians decide how they want to govern themselves?
It's up to us to choose whether or not to extend NATO. I get that it's a purely defensive alliance, but it won't seem that way from the Russian perspective.
If Mexico decided to join, say, a Chinese-led alliance, allowed Chinese troops to use its bases, allowed China to station rockets within firing distance from Houston and Los Angeles, and did war games 100 miles from the coast of California, would the United States not go into full panic mode?
Who is invading who, here?
My narcissist mother once told me that it was my fault that she broke a vein in her hand while punching me in the face.
The West appeasing Putin is like the firefighters appeasing the arsonists.
I have no problem believing that Putin is a revanchist at heart. But even if he were a jingoist — one who'd love to see Russian troops stationed in London and Paris, let alone Donetsk — he can nevertheless be kept bottled up. We can still guarantee Ukrainian independence without it having to formally join NATO. And to that effect, we could maintain an expeditionary force in Poland and Romania (close enough to Ukraine, but far enough away from Russia).
Last edited by xerx; 02-22-2022 at 05:09 AM. Reason: .
It’s my understanding that the US thinks it would be bad to let Putin dictate which countries are allowed to join NATO when a) Russia is not a member of NATO, and b) Putin actively opposes NATO and wants to see it destroyed. But ignoring that…
NATO has a rule that bars joining members from being involved in a territorial disputes. Would Ukraine even have a chance of joining NATO as long as Russia claimed Crimea? Why is Putin so desperate for us to promise that Ukraine will never join?
I get the importance of standing up to tyrants (let's be honest about what he is). No country has the right to tell other countries how to conduct their foreign policies.
But when it comes to Ukraine, the stakes are very high for Russia. Russia's geographical location is bad. Its border with Europe is a wide-open plain — there are no mountains or choke points that can be easily defended. Russia's historical solution was to conquer as much space as possible between Moscow and Western Europe. If Ukraine invited foreign armies, they could threaten an important part of Russia. Russia would have to respond by raising its military expenditures, possibly unsustainably.
Last edited by xerx; 02-22-2022 at 06:56 AM.
In other words, by taking Ukraine, Putin is preparing for war.
Russians already view Ukraine as a part of Russia. As long as a cultural precedent exists for conflict, conflict will exist; and it's a strong cultural precedent. In Russia, history is still felt about how Ukraine helped defeat the Nazis...
In last time USA & its band (the ones who controls those nations) by soldiers from different nations + the ones pushed by the force and lie to its army from occupied since 2014 by USA Russian borderland territory called as "украина" does regular intensive attacks by diversions and artillery fire to territory of Russian interests (and in core sense to part of Russia, kills Russians) and also sometimes does attacks to official territory of Russian Federation. It's done against military and also mainly civil objects (as power and water sources), including wide artillery fire to towns territories of the borderland - what can be named as terrorism.
The aim is to provoke Russia to protect own interests and people by open military force. Also USA recently has made threats to do terroristic attacks in deep Russian Federation territory. 2nd aim is to push civil people living on attacked borderland territory (which effectively opposed to USA occupation still) to leave it - what can be named as a form of genocide.
In medias USA & its band does massive lieing, including show falsifications about what happens, as same did before in Syria and other places.
Attacks on Russian borderland territory by USA & band are happening since 2014, when USA did illegal military overturn there to place own people to formal power. Attacks were _partly_ reduced by Minsk agreements of late 2014 and recently were openly rejected by USA, what factually is seen by starting of intensive deversions and artillery attacks on military and civil objects of borderland and people there.
An example of news line about the situation on historical Russian borderland, which was illegally and against people wish in referendum(!) of 1991 departed from Russia in December of 1991 and large part of which is occupied by USA-hithlerists since 2014.
Lots of real-time footage is uploaded to Twitter and minor websites by obscure accounts. For anyone interested in obscure war footage, Pakistan Defence Forum threads have a goldmine of links. The users are also sometimes kind enough to translate it into English (the forum has an international user base).
A word of warning: Forums like this have their share of militant ultra-nationalists, so don't spend too long if you have faith in world peace and don't want to lose it.
EDIT: do keep in mind that a lot of such "gonzo journalism" is unsubstantiated.
Last edited by xerx; 02-24-2022 at 04:00 AM.
Damn, you're on a roll Adam, but as you already know I think you don't go far enough. Fox News Delenda Est? Certainly. Entirety of the MSM and the Cabal that controls them all regardless of their supposed political alignments? That's the real shit. If you're not willing to kill Fox News if it costs you CNN and all the other "news" networks you're not really committed. Level the entire field. Start it all over from scratch. Then there may be a true sign of hope.
I also agree. I actually don't think we need to fuck Russia over for any reason but if we must than the non-military route is the answer. They can get practically anything they currently get from us from China but, well, anyone who pays any attention to China knows what "Tofu-Dreg" means and yeah, China gives you the Tofu-Dreg version of X. Say what you will about the West, at least we still have some semblance of a standard remaining. Said standard of "bricks" for instance are hard to break apart with your bare hands if you ain't a bodybuilder or something. China? Yeah, you get totally awesome better than Pig Dog Capitalist American bricks!
Bricks you can easily break apart with unprotected bare hands along with "steel" rebar reinforcement a terminal cancer patient can bend and break with but moderate effort. West Taiwan is a paper tiger that is just as much an enemy of ours as are our own elite. If only more people on "my" side would understand that and act accordingly things might get better faster.
Also the greatest counter-argument to woke fuckers in regards to Western Civilization. If the West and it's civilization is so horrible a place for anyone who is not straight, white, Christian, and male than why the ever living fuck is literally everyone who is none of those things trying so desperately to immigrate to such places? Methinks the wokies aren't exactly synchronized with reality. Well, they are in a sense, but not a reality intended to maximize freedom and minimize suffering. Yes I'm about to get theological again if you ask for specifics but hey, food for thought.
Also, red state resident here. I'm seeing a lot of New York and California License Plates recently. I wouldn't mind this fact were it not for what the other data suggests. They vote to convert the places they fled into carbon copies of them with all that implies. I'd welcome refugees from commie hellholes with open arms... if only they didn't do all they could to convert my locality into yet another commie hellhole. I respect bees, ladybugs, mantises, etc. Locusts, however...
Officials say that the last point of tolerancy was the intention to allow that "borderland" region (which is under USA control since 2014) to use nuclear weapon. As that territory has regular antirussian hithlerists style propaganda since 2014 and is situated close to RF, to remove its illegal terroristic occupation USA-hithlerists rule was decided as obligate in near time.
As USA provoked Russians by different ways on military actions (including even by nuclear weapon threat), I'm not sure the situation is going to better. USA may steal contracts for energy shipments to EU, as example (today RF unlike USSR produces not much products and has much lesser ways of material incomes, so it's significant loss). Or to do other shit.
8 years Russia allowed USA to kill civil Russians living in borderland near RF until recently it started to do many provocations from different sides and on higher levels. Now we should see the aim what USA wanted to get as the result.
Borderland itself means a few to USA and EU, the aim is the harm to Russians and China.
It seems Russia is on the verge of a swift takeover of Kiev. A well-planned action and quite possibly successful in the short term as its strategies in the upcoming years depend on it. Biden and local analysts where I live have hinted at it: Russia will most likely continue expansion and try to recreate the URSS (edit: or USSR if you prefer...) in some form as NATO would allow it.
It remains to be seen what form the invasion will take. A change of regime and departure from Kiev is a bit dangerous; Putin must've gone in really sure about the results he would get, the people he will install in power. That means once Ukr is humiliated (demilitarization) Putin will leave a puppet regime in his wake and they will deal harshly with dissenters.
Protracted occupation is another option as the region can be used as a base for further incursions into the continent and places like Moscow are far away, allowing the invader's spreading of misery without feeling any domestic heat to stop the aggression. It is a horrible thing to say, but the invader can keep this up indefinitely unless the invaded population gravely affects its assets and that means embassies blowing up, buses going up in the air in central Moscow.
In the end, it depends on the Ukrainian's sense of self love and memory and what they want. Will they go silently about their life as their college classmates, relatives are imprisoned and vanished for “anti-Russian” activities; will they plead lacrimously as they are killed while muscovites live in idiot land with no consequences?
Don't kid yourself. Glory is reserved for the 18-60 year old men who stayed in Kiev and other regions to resist. Even if reunification isn't a reality in the next 10 years, the heart-felt monuments will go to them. Your fallen ‘soldiers’ will be scurried back into Russia in the cheapest wooden box they can find and ignominy will cover their dead-ass sack of bones, long before serious revisionism even sets in.
Last edited by Rusal; 02-25-2022 at 07:27 AM.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
USA-hithlerists occupation soldiers use terroristic tactics against people of own "nation". Practically they use them as hostages.
They place artillery close to living houses (hundreds may live in single such house). They do same even in Kiev. So RF has lesser wish to attack it (by rockets, shells) and may do not attack, to avoid death of many civil people and civil structures destruction. While to use infantry in towns leads to redundant death, so it's not good option and needs longer preparation.
Both China and India abstained from voting on the American-drafted UNSC resolution to condemn Russia.............. interesting.
USA-hithlerist occupants use civilians as hostages, what is terrorism and war crime. They place military machines near buildings with living civil people to reduce or void return fire. USA, which controls army of Russian borderland/okraina does not care about lifes of people living there.
In some places USA-hithlerists directly forbid to leave towns and hold people by force, for the mentioned usage as shield/hostages. I've mentioned before about Mariupol.
The same happens in town Volnovakha. Recent day a group of civilians tried to go away from blocked city. They were attacked by direct fire from USA-hithlerists side, some should be killed.
In other towns to which RF army have come USA-hithlerist occupants use the similar terrotistic approach - they do not allow civil people to go away from those towns. RF has asked to stop military actions near towns on some time to make civilians passing safer and then to allow civilians to leave towns. USA-hithlerists has rejected this offer and hold civilians inside of towns, while food becomes a problem in some places. Examples of rejected offer are: Kiev, Harkov, Sumi. For Mariupol USA-hithlerists has agreed to do this, but when assinged time came they did not allow people to go away.
Another "nice" thing what USA likes to do in military conflicts and also overturns. Besides using civil objects and people as hostages by hiding behind them, it may do an attack by themselves and then accuse other side. This is made to justify own aggression, for propaganda against opponents, to initiate conflicts etc. Examples of this were Mariupol 2015, Donetsk region airplane 2014, Syria Ghouta 2013.
USA establishes censorship in medias. Blocks RF medias to hide truth about what happens. Many falsifications and lie are spreaded by USA side, what is common for it.
USA removes people of own nation from Belorussia and seems RF. The similar do other NATO states as Germany. I suspect USA begins diversion-terroristic war on territory of RF. Terroristc part is attacks against civilians and civil objects. Small bands as were in Syria should pass the border, some of them should be here already. Besides from okraina territory they may come from Afganistan (through Asian USSR republics) where USA gave recently many weapon to islamists and created large trained army of them. USA controlled syrians and representeters of Europe states took part in civil war on okraina since 2014. Now their quantity and number of available weapons, military machines arises.
The war of USA (with its satelites) against RF which happens now, would happened later with more intensivity. In essence sense, the war of USA against Russians started in 2014; besides other wars organised by USA where Russians needed to took part. USA illegally placed by military overturn own people to power on Russian okraina territory, provoked civil war to inspire hate to people of RF there. Before 2014 USA also developed anti-Russian propaganda on okraina.
When was said USA's intention to give nuclear weapon to their forces on okraina, RF has started miliatry operation to remove illegal regime fo USA-hithlerists there. This should be done in 2014 and could be easier, but RF wanted to keep peace. USA rejected peace. USA want desctructions anywhere in the world to stay as most developed territory by this way, to easier compete with others. USA is world cancer.
USA is a simplification in the process. It's controlled by "elites", not only by national ones - by related to world. These elites follow antihumahistic hithleristic-alike ideology of artistocratism/socialeugenics to rationalize their interest to power and doing harm to people, in much they are egocentric psychopaths by ideology and have higher such personality trait as inborn. They are satanists from christianity view, which keep the power by lie and terror/violence. USA is used as a tool to get and have power over the world, mainly military and propaganda tool.
Last edited by Sol; 03-05-2022 at 03:24 PM.
So that I don't seem like that crazy homeless person shouting at people passing by, here are the opinions of two influential American strategists, both of whom argued for a policy of compromise with Russia.
George Kennan's plea to not expand NATO (this is from 1998, well before the current crisis):
Here is Henry Kissinger's plea to keep Ukraine neutral, just as Finland was throughout the Cold War (or Austria, which he doesn't mention), and to respect some of Russia's defense imperatives.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...0b9_story.html
The last paragraph I quoted will rub liberals the wrong way. Why should anyone, let alone foreigners to Russia, care about Russian national pride or the glorification of Russian history, notions that must seem deeply reactionary? The reason is that many "antiquated" beliefs tend to be very persistent, especially when they inspire feelings of reverence, and cannot realistically be bulldozed through. It would take massive social change in a liberal direction (something that only the Russians themselves can do) for beliefs like these to wane in importance and adherence.A wise U.S. policy toward Ukraine would seek a way for the two parts of the country to cooperate with each other. We should seek reconciliation, not the domination of a faction. Russia and the West, and least of all the various factions in Ukraine, have not acted on this principle. Each has made the situation worse. Russia would not be able to impose a military solution without isolating itself at a time when many of its borders are already precarious. For the West, the demonization of Vladimir Putin is not a policy; it is an alibi for the absence of one.
Putin should come to realize that, whatever his grievances, a policy of military impositions would produce another Cold War. For its part, the United States needs to avoid treating Russia as an aberrant to be patiently taught rules of conduct established by Washington. Putin is a serious strategist — on the premises of Russian history. Understanding U.S. values and psychology are not his strong suits. Nor has understanding Russian history and psychology been a strong point of U.S. policymakers.
......
The West must understand that, to Russia, Ukraine can never be just a foreign country. Russian history began in what was called Kievan-Rus. The Russian religion spread from there. Ukraine has been part of Russia for centuries, and their histories were intertwined before then. Some of the most important battles for Russian freedom, starting with the Battle of Poltava in 1709 , were fought on Ukrainian soil. The Black Sea Fleet — Russia’s means of projecting power in the Mediterranean — is based by long-term lease in Sevastopol, in Crimea. Even such famed dissidents as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and Joseph Brodsky insisted that Ukraine was an integral part of Russian history and, indeed, of Russia.
George Kennan was the man who inspired the 'Truman Doctrine' of containment against the Soviet Union. He wasn't some bleeding heart hippie and neither is Kissinger.
Last edited by xerx; 03-01-2022 at 10:22 PM.
Before the Iraq war, general Shinseki estimated that the US would need 1 soldier for every 50 civilians to maintain the occupation. It was based on his experience as a commander in Bosnia. He had been ignored by Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz but has since been vindicated (https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/20/opini...raq/index.html). The article says that the occupation needed 300,000 soldiers (a lot more than were sent), but I think that the actual number should be closer to 500,000 (Iraq's population was around 25 million in 2003).
The population of Ukraine is even bigger, at around 44 million, which means that Russia would need around 880,000 troops to maintain the peace. The size of Russia's deployment to Ukraine is 150 - 200,000 troops (according to Al Jazeera). To match Shinseki's ratio, it would need to deploy nearly its entire army of 900,000 personnel or call in its reserves.
200,000 troops covers 10 million people. Even if Ukraine's official population figures may be overstated (lots of young people leave in search of work, for one thing), I don't get the impression that it's as small as 10 million.
Russian - Ukrainian proximity and historical ties may change that ratio, though. Who knows.
At this point, history is working against the Russians here. Their soldiers feel like they're putting down their brothers and the Ukrainians are galvanized because of the amount of shit they've had to deal with for the last 8 years. An ineffective occupying force and a civilian population ready to spend the rest of their days throwing molotovs more or less makes occupation impossible.
Numbers change if you partition it.
'Denazification' of Ukraine is a war of annihilation of a country. They're not even hiding it anymore. And I can't believe it's the best thing they could come up with since 2014. Tells you a lot about their citizen's sense of situational awareness and general sense of 'fairness'.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
I don't think that we can be sure of his game plan at this point, but ~9.5 million people is indeed the estimated population in Donestk + Kharkiv + Luhansk (as of 2012, according to Wikipedia). If that's all he wants, then one may suppose that Shinseki would approve of those troop numbers.
Ukraine said it's killed 9k russians and that it has 100k defense force, so manpower-wise this equation is going to be much uglier for Russia. As long as Ukrainians get arms, it will take far more people to hold more than the east and south of Ukraine. If Putin doesn't take Kyiv, I think the Russians will hold the east and the south. I do think the Ukrainians will fight to the end in Odessa and not retreat from it like Kherson. From some of the image we saw of the plans, which might not be real, there are plans to attack Moldova too. If this is true, Russia will want a strip of southern ukraine to landlock ukraine and provide a bridge into moldova. And Georgia is likely to eventually get attacked as well.
You could be right, I don't know. Personally, I hope that Putin has already bit off more than he can chew.
in English language
Russian view about military activity on ex-USSR territory known as "borderland" and some other
http://eu.eot.su/tag/classical-war/
This is very interesting, @Sol. I don't see too many news feeds from Russia and it's good to know what news Russians are seeing.
In this same vein,
For the first five years or so of the Vietnam war, the US citizens were told it was going very well.
Yeah maybe I do hate Putin and some Russians for being homophobic douchebags. Maybe I do hate some regular townsfolk people for being so easily manipulated by a 'but what about the childreeeeeeen' power play.
So fucking what. Scapegoating hatred as a bad thing is so petty and small to me here. Don't tell me that hatred destroys the hater and other Wayne Dyer faux-spiritual bullshit. Tell that to all the innocent Ukranians being blowed up by a douchebag. Hatred destroys the HATED while the hater laughs and sips champagne from their window.
OK, I won't say that hatred harms the hater. I wasn't really thinking about that, to be honest. I was thinking about more practical stuff.
Like, how do regimes really get replaced? Is it by lots of "little people" kicking each other? No. Regimes get replaced by equally powerful actors who step into a power vacuum. In Russia, as in the US right now, there is no power vacuum, so there will be no regime change.
Reducing the net worth of the average Russian is not going to create a force in Russian society which will overthrow Putin, no matter how much we wish it or he deserves it. On the other hand, sanctions will reduce the ability of Russian industry to wage wars. Whether that happens before Russia levels all the Ukrainian cities remains to be seen.
But our enemy is not the Russian people, but rather it is mafia states which step on individual rights.
I will add that you will never change someone's mind by disrespecting them. You can disagree with them, but you have to respect both them and their views.
there is habituated helplessness in that little people refuse to grow bc they think they cant do anything or that its worthless to try or that they are simple little people who shouldnt meddle anywhere. they absolve themselves of responsibility by making themsleves little. they let someone step in and take control. usually that someone's hierarchy controls others by fear on one part and the rest being worthless who have nothing better to live for than being abusers and serving an abuser. putin is not alone in what he's doing. im not advocating for the sanctions.
and the disrespect thing is really bothering me. someone can ruin lives and take so much away, and then ur not even allowed to curse them, cry about it, yell bc its disrespectful. whatever the severity of what they did i dont see any reason for someone giving a shit about disrespect besides trauma making them hyperreactive to anything critical/negative which is easy to happen with someone under a lot of stress/trauma. theres ok disrespect and not ok disrespect and situations where its sensible for the disrespect to be understandable even if the disrespected person is in the right, and the opposite.
Edit: this is nothing intended against adam
Last edited by VewyScawwyNawcissist; 03-13-2022 at 06:57 PM.
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also yeah The Law is stern and serious and Te and authoriative and straight. For many years up until only very recently tbh gay/some bi guys have always been on the wrong side of the law cuz of this really - it was so natural in a socionics sense. There ain't nothin' gay about using the words 'pursuant to section 5 article 6 - thou shalt not be inappropriate and vulgar' like a goddamn snobby hetero with a stick up your ass. Even if you could accept the fact not all gays were bad- why in the hell would a strong Te valuer value the Fe gayness??
I think a lot of the respect gays got objectively was due to IEE SJwism for that reason. IEEs really helped mend a lot of bridges between the hellish wars of IEI vs LSE with their 2D valued Te and their unvalued 4D Fe. Everybody likes to make fun of it but really without it, in an objective sense- gays would be fucked so hard and not in the good way.
It's funny to me when I meet people who have to like always abide by the Te handbook but I mean yeah, there are going to be people like that in life I have to deal with not everybody is going to think like me. Sadly.
Ukraine's Bayraktar drones have been really effective at taking out Russian convoys and anti-air defenses. It has been one of the most useful tools in the Ukrainian arsenal. There is even a "Bayraktar" song now (the Russians already have "Katyusha").
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...lla-air-force/
For whatever reasons, though, the Russians aren't deploying their air force, which would make quick work of these drones.
On the one hand, Ukraine's smaller army could use all the help it can get. On the other hand, the rise of robotic warfare using disposable machines seems ominous.
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