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Thread: ILIs and Attachment Style

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    Default ILIs and Attachment Style

    A thread to discuss the Attachment Styles of ILIs, to tell stories of examples from the trenches, and to basically put another volume in the Library of Socionics

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    I'll go first.

    I have an ILI shrink. He's brilliant but troubled, since his mother had to place him in an orphanage when she couldn't care for him when he was young. She was forced to leave him there for many years, and only was able to get him back when her financial situation improved. He is 50% Lakota Native American, and the reservation was not a great place to live then.

    He's been married a few times and divorced an equal number of times. He's had lots of women interested in him. He travels a lot, mainly to retreats like Burning Man or other off-beat gatherings, or professional meetings, and like most ILIs, he takes pictures. Lots and lots of pictures. Strangely enough, he's only heard of Attachment theory since he and I have been talking about it, during the last year or so.

    I was telling him that my last ESI GF had a Fearful-Avoidant attachment style which made her both needy and standoffish, and he said something very interesting. He said that he might be Fearful-Avoidant himself, because in his own life, he's only interested in a woman until he gets her, and then he loses interest. He only recently realized this about himself.

    He attributed his behavior to the experiences he had as a child, because he was always pining in the orphanage for his mother, and she'd visit him as often as she could, but she could never tell him beforehand when she would visit and could never promise to get him out of the orphanage at some point because her finances were so terrible, but he knew, with absolute certainty, that she loved him like a rock.

    So he got used to being alone, with sporadic visits from his loving mother, but no promises were ever made, and she always left after a few hours visit.

    He said that he can anticipate being in a relationship, but it's the anticipation that he loves, and once he gets the girl, he loses interest in her.


    I've been thinking about this, particularly in terms of the ILI-SEE Duality relationship in the descriptions I've read on this forum. My impression is that, in contrast to the ESI-LIE Duality in which everything happens fast and the two partners join up right away (in Stratiyevskaya's description, these Duals already acutely feel the troubles of the world and don't try to add to them in their relationship), the ILI-SEE Duality seems to be characterized by initial attraction, then breakups, then get together again, then break up, and on and on like this until the couple finally decides either to go their separate ways, or to stick around each other.

    This looks a lot like Fearful-Avoidance to me.

    I find it interesting that both my personal experience and the things I've read on this forum indicate that SEEs have a very short but intense attention span, and they don't see the future or Te facts very well. In other words, they need an ILI to get through the day in one piece.
    I knew a female SEE and she was always really glad to see me and would greet me with intense Fi friendliness, but after a minute or so, she'd greet the guy behind me with the same enthusiasm and would forget about me.

    This kind of behavior would be perfect for an ILI who was Fearful-Avoidant and needs love, but doesn't want a lot of continuous attention.

    I also talked with the SEE @HotSauce, and she said that she had dated LIEs and she liked them, but they got jealous of her when they'd go out and she'd flirt with every man in the place, and her betrothed ILI didn't do that. I thought to myself, "Yeah, girl, that would piss me off, too." But I could see how an ILI would be OK with that. He'd know beforehand that she would flirt and talk to everyone just for her personal entertainment as a super-extrovert, and he'd also know that at the end of the evening, she'd be going home with him.


    My personal opinion is that the mental aberrations, that each type is prone to having, are closely aligned with their sociotype and what it takes to get along with their Duals.

    Having said that, I think it's only a slight trend and isn't Destiny, because every Sociotype can be Secure, Anxious, or Avoidant with enough training. It's how we respond to that training that sets a bias in the outcomes.

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    If I have a SEE girlfriend and see her flirting with other man, I'm gonna troll her and the poor guy lol.

    But yeah, I need alot of personal space, and what I like about SEE is they can leave me alone and have their own fun, but they will always come back and share their fun with me.

    My most horrible experience is sharing room with a ESE, and holy shit, that guy doesn't repect any personal boundaries and spend hours talking shit about morality, society, criticizing other people and then get angry when seeing me don't give a shit about what he talk (I lost all of my energy and can't pretend that I'm listen anymore).

    So, no, I don't need a caregiver... ever
    Last edited by Tarnished; 01-08-2022 at 06:39 AM.

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    I'm not completely sure that I'm an ILI yet, but it seems like I view the world in terms of things that are different from expected (mainly negative potentials) and I seem to have a serious, dynamic imagination but a more common sense-based sense of humor. I took an attachment styles test and got secure. When I read a set of attachment-style descriptions, I thought that I was an insecure type, but not fearful-avoidant.

    My experiences with relationships have basically been the following:
    -I see someone and develop an attraction to them. This usually happens over a long period of time, but sometimes it seems like it can happen pretty fast if they have attractive or admirable characteristics.
    -Once I get attracted enough to them, I either hope that they will initiate a relationship or I initiate the relationship myself. I usually prefer to initiate the relationship because of the implications of having others initiate the relationship (I tend not to like it that much when most people initiate a relationship with me because I'm either not attracted to them or life circumstances make it hard for me to be in a relationship with them at the time), but I think that deeply, I would prefer it if someone else somehow knew that I was attracted to them and took the initiative.
    -When I get into a relationship, the initial stages are usually fairly passionate. However, as time goes on, the passion seems to wear off.
    -Eventually, it seems like boredom sets in and I get the urge to date other, more potentially interesting people. I don't really remember much about this. Generally, I think that I try to stay in the relationship and be loyal, but eventually convince myself through a rationale that it might be justified to leave. I think that this is somehow related to chasing the feeling of infatuation.

    It's possible that I've just never had a relationship that was satisfying in the right way. The closest I've had to that is dating a potential SLE who was good at videogames. I don't remember getting tired of him, but after he stopped talking to me for a few months, I eventually convinced myself that I had to move on. Around that time, a different guy entered my life who was more interesting. I'm not sure whether I'm right in my judgement that he was a SLE because he didn't seem to have the same "edge" that SxE's seem to have (if he did, it might've scared me off).

    Generally, I don't see myself as someone who would leave a good, or even stable relationship just to feel infatuation, but ultimately I guess I tend not to be self aware. I think that this tendency to leave relationships to chase infatuation has bugged me on an ethical level.

    This information is based on my perceptions on what happened, and while I have this perception, I ultimately can't remember the exact relationship that made me think that this was true. I've had 4 romantic relationships total, and I'm sure that it didn't happen in one of them due to the circumstances of the relationship (he broke up with me first).

    Edit: Maybe I'm just an oddball for the type or it's because I'm female, but I've noticed that I tend to be a little squishy internally. I usually have a hard exterior, but if something pierces that, I'm basically fucked. I guess that could be positive or negative.

    This edit is really hard for me to verify based on my personal experience. Once again, this is probably related to problems with self awareness.
    Last edited by Clarke; 11-21-2022 at 07:48 PM.

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    "I also talked with the SEE Hotsauce, and she said that she had dated LIEs and she liked them, but they got jealous of her when they'd go out and she'd flirt with every man in the place, and her betrothed ILI didn't do that. I thought to myself, "Yeah, girl, that would piss me off, too." But I could see how an ILI would be OK with that. He'd know beforehand that she would flirt and talk to everyone just for her personal entertainment as a super-extrovert, and he'd also know that at the end of the evening, she'd be going home with him."

    I'd love this. Takes away the jealousy aspect of the relationship. Seems even more stable than a relationship filled with paranoia and questioning, and pointless fear of the other leaving. A relationship which is doomed because of cheating sounds pretty shitty to me, when both can just cheat from the beginning so no one is offended or surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crapfaced View Post
    "I also talked with the SEE Hotsauce, and she said that she had dated LIEs and she liked them, but they got jealous of her when they'd go out and she'd flirt with every man in the place, and her betrothed ILI didn't do that. I thought to myself, "Yeah, girl, that would piss me off, too." But I could see how an ILI would be OK with that. He'd know beforehand that she would flirt and talk to everyone just for her personal entertainment as a super-extrovert, and he'd also know that at the end of the evening, she'd be going home with him."

    I'd love this. Takes away the jealousy aspect of the relationship. Seems even more stable than a relationship filled with paranoia and questioning, and pointless fear of the other leaving. A relationship which is doomed because of cheating sounds pretty shitty to me, when both can just cheat from the beginning so no one is offended or surprised.
    You know, my attitude towards this kind of thing has always more or less been that I get irritated that my partner is flirting with others, but I just eventually ignore it. I've had points in my life where I've told other people that I didn't care if my partner fucked some other person when they were in a relationship with me though, as long as they liked me the most. It was a sort of feeling-based analysis that even though they like having sex with others, that they still love me, and therefore the relationship is meaningful. While I was told that this attitude meant that I had a fling instead of a real relationship, I felt like the relationship was real at the time.

    Edit: I actually can't remember the instance where I got irritated that my partner was flirting with others. I would guess that it was in the SLE relationship.

    I currently have a perception that I would get irritated by it. It would kind of bug me on a gut level.

    Edit 2: Also, how do you see Earth? I'm guessing any planet with water and life is valuable to the collective.
    Last edited by Clarke; 11-18-2022 at 05:28 AM.

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    IPs/EJs attached, EPs/IJs detached. I had an ILI friend and we sort of fell out. It’s true what the kindred descriptions say, as soon as something was wrong it felt really rubbish to even think about her. She’s gay btw, and has a lot more physical presence than me. We fell out because of long term issues. But I did feel very attached to her..strange how attached you can feel to a friend..but not good once you feel resentment towards them. I don’t know if some people are to destined to have difficulties with friendships throughout life :/ It’s why I like contrary- you don’t have to get to close..that has its downsides but also you don’t have to feel stuck to them.
    Last edited by Bethany; 11-18-2022 at 12:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    You know, my attitude towards this kind of thing has always more or less been that I get irritated that my partner is flirting with others, but I just eventually ignore it. I've had points in my life where I've told other people that I didn't care if my partner fucked some other person when they were in a relationship with me though, as long as they liked me the most. It was a sort of feeling-based analysis that even though they like having sex with others, that they still love me, and therefore the relationship is meaningful. While I was told that this attitude meant that I had a fling instead of a real relationship, I felt like the relationship was real at the time.

    Edit: I actually can't remember the instance where I got irritated that my partner was flirting with others. I would guess that it was in the SLE relationship.

    I currently have a perception that I would get irritated by it. It would kind of bug me on a gut level.

    Edit 2: Also, how do you see Earth? I'm guessing any planet with water and life is valuable to the collective.
    re: cheating is fun and everyone should do it

    Yeah, I get that it would be bothersome- it's mostly on a theoretical level that I would want such an allowance in the relationship. I don't imagine seeking out anyone else. I probably only think this way because my last gf was quite paranoid from the very beginning, and now I'm trying to find a way to skim through people who are going to pull that shit lol. Asking too many questions as to where I am/have been, being sensitive to me even looking at people who are attractive, and not letting me masturbate alone because I'm "probably thinking of other people". Hahahaha, and I'm not even sure how to figure out who is like this until the relationship actually starts,... though now I'm wary of overtly passionate people who come on too fast just to complicate it immediately. I've worn myself out, won't do it again. I'm not even sure what I feel about a partner having sex with someone else, but I'd sure prefer that over what I went through.

    re: how do you see Earth?


    I just see it as a stepping stone to the stars. I don't really care what happens here as long as somebody gets to explore the cosmos. I'm kind of bored with what's going on here on Earth, nature is alright but I wouldn't mind sacrificing it for the conquering of the galaxy! As for the people on the planet- I don't really know. I want to believe in the collective to be able to achieve something great without masochistically hurting ourselves every step we take. But that's just the thrill I guess- if success was easy we'd all be beautiful Gods and Goddesses as we are and wouldn't have to lift a finger to feel perfection. Which would be amazing, and doesn't help my case that success requires suffering. I guess the fact that we *aren't* gods and goddesses makes me feel in awe of what humanity *has* done already. Anyways what exactly did you want from this question?

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    Quote Originally Posted by devour View Post
    and not letting me masturbate alone because I'm "probably thinking of other people".
    Wow, that's pretty controlling.

    As for the second question, I guess it was a reference to your TIM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    A thread to discuss the Attachment Styles of ILIs, to tell stories of examples from the trenches, and to basically put another volume in the Library of Socionics
    I am quite pleased you started such a thread but hey, let's be honest, we both already know what a broken ILI is like. The rare true narcissistic types get all the attention (i.e. they make amazingly effective villains in a narrative/story). However, what happens more often than not is true fearful avoidant attachment. I believe you put it best somewhere else. Broken ILI's are big into "Guns and Paranoia" if I remember right.

    In other words (as you subconsciously yet eloquently put it) they go full gun nut hikikomori.

    Yeah, why not? I mean, everyone else is so clearly insane and irrational that I'd be stupid to not invest in/acquire the most effective weapon systems I can afford and just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me so why not gear up to gun down all the glowies in a last stand!

    I guess this might be a fundamental difference in how figures into our motivations and actions. I just... can't, won't, will not, treat others as just a mere cog in a machine no matter how much it might make sense to do so. This figures into one of my other insights as a theist. I "get" the demonic academically/intellectually, but for the utter life of me I just can't get it viscerally.

    Likewise, I'm more than willing to waste a fucker on basic principle no matter the consequences. Traitors eat my last bullet just because. No other considerations need apply nor will I listen to them. I'd rather elect a hardcore wokie Democrat over ensuring some RINO gets that same position of power. Better an avowed enemy than a silver-tonged traitor in my midst...

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I am quite pleased you started such a thread but hey, let's be honest, we both already know what a broken ILI is like. The rare true narcissistic types get all the attention (i.e. they make amazingly effective villains in a narrative/story). However, what happens more often than not is true fearful avoidant attachment. I believe you put it best somewhere else. Broken ILI's are big into "Guns and Paranoia" if I remember right.

    In other words (as you subconsciously yet eloquently put it) they go full gun nut hikikomori.

    Yeah, why not? I mean, everyone else is so clearly insane and irrational that I'd be stupid to not invest in/acquire the most effective weapon systems I can afford and just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me so why not gear up to gun down all the glowies in a last stand!

    I guess this might be a fundamental difference in how figures into our motivations and actions. I just... can't, won't, will not, treat others as just a mere cog in a machine no matter how much it might make sense to do so. This figures into one of my other insights as a theist. I "get" the demonic academically/intellectually, but for the utter life of me I just can't get it viscerally.

    Likewise, I'm more than willing to waste a fucker on basic principle no matter the consequences. Traitors eat my last bullet just because. No other considerations need apply nor will I listen to them. I'd rather elect a hardcore wokie Democrat over ensuring some RINO gets that same position of power. Better an avowed enemy than a silver-tonged traitor in my midst...
    I'm still not sure whether these are metaphorical or literal bullets being discussed here, but regardless, I guess it makes sense to spend the more metaphorical bullets on the fluorescent. They're probably aware of their targets' romantic interests anyway.

    Edit: Well I might've misunderstood the post a bit. The bullets are definitely literal. The problem with these things is that if home is equipped with weapons systems, they'll just wait until you need to go out to get food or other resources. Or maybe they'll take something similar to the anthrax approach.

    I guess in this way, an exit plan and a bullet proof vest is always ideal, for both normal and fluorescent partners.

    Edit 2: You know, this one time I saw a video or something about bullet proof, normal-looking clothing. It was only really effective against handguns, but the potential of that kind of clothing seems pretty high if it could develop a little further. Anyhow, something like that would be useful against people who may or may not show alternative characteristics under UV light. But of course, buying one might put you on their fun list anyway. But I mean, probably all critical thinking reds are anyway, at least if they browse the right parts of the internet.

    I saw the video years ago. It was about a company that wanted to give clothing-like outfits to celebrities who encountered danger occasionally. The ideal outfit might've already been developed.
    Last edited by Clarke; 11-21-2022 at 07:58 PM.

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