What's your opinion of semi-duals and does the polarity of their functions stimulate you mentally?
Your opinion on Semi-duals
What's your opinion of semi-duals and does the polarity of their functions stimulate you mentally?
I know a few SEEs in my life, all of whom are spunky, have a playful sense of humor, and seem to be more uhhh.... Affectionate compared to SLE. Lol they often like to poke fun at their relatives and get reactions out of them, but their relatives know they're playing around and indulge in their special bond together. They can be stimulating to be around, but I think it's hard to find things to talk about with them
How does the SEE'S nature affect you?
I think I'm a lot more calmer around them I guess? It's weird to say. Not as in my head, more engaged with my environment I mean. They try to lighten my mood sometimes too, I guess. But I sometimes feel like I can't be myself around them lmao.
I've read that the communication styles are associated with the rational functions. It might be the reason irrational mirage get along
I think illusionary is a better relationship, an ESI is a perfectly suitable partner for me. I don't think LII is as good of a partner for EIE. In my experience, I see illusionary more often than semi-duality.
For example, SEI-SLE relationships are all too common.
Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.
-Seneca
Semi-duals for rationals happen more often. I haven't been around a lot of LSI's but they love my Fe I have noticed. They are comfy too. The only issue that I find is they only relate on one commodity which can be rough.I think semi-dual for rationals would be easier to get together. HOWEVER, I think long-term irrational duals would stay together more imo. Simply because irrationally tends to make things a little smoother.
I think I prefer the typical EIE to the typical ESE. I would say there's more stimulation in the sense that, IMO, dual relations are prone to falling into stagnation. Another reason I like EIEs compared to ESEs is that it's easier to talk with them and understand them. It seems to be very difficult for duals to actually understand much about each other.
An ESI with an elephantine memory told me the other day “You said that Duals will never really understand each other.”Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
I replied, “That’s probably true. But Duals work together seamlessly and provide each other with the best support.”
Maybe some duals can. But not all duals do, and perhaps a few seams can make for a better product in the long run.
IR theory is about average, most of cases. Understanding of IR theory needs correct types (your and other people), significant and lesser formal interactions. Good to have more examples to reduce influence of other factors.
Duality gives the best support from the point of activating your weak regions and giving you more of field for self-expression by your strongest interests of ego. When you communicate, cooperate with such people and tune friendly to them, - this improves your psyche state, makes you feeling higher inner energy, self-esteem, more positive life perception. Also duality the most allows to study your weak regions by coping behavior and traits of duals.
Here we take a common case, where a stronger function in a type supposes better its strenght than in you and above average in a society.
In more practical side. Among types duality predisposes to give the general help and support the most. But as types is one of factors for relations, so concrete human with duality type mb worse than other with non-duality. A human with lower IQ, higher egocentrism and other opposing factors to your needs may be lesser supportive, what may overweight better IR factor.
Also. Stronger function in a type means better concrete skills but this also depends on IQ, education and experience, besides functional strenght and functional value. Concrete relations depend on skills much, not only personality potentional.
> I think I prefer the typical EIE to the typical ESE.
It's about the experience and its perception. Types and hence IR could be other (mistakes in types are often), lack of examples and surface interactions arise influence of external factors.
> dual relations are prone to falling into stagnation
Difference in personality of duals predisposes to keep the interest and what people may give each other. This difference is higher than semiduals have.
A stagnation happens in positive sense - more pleasant relations have lesser activity for changes inside. While same people may do more activity together for external tasks, instead of opposing between them. May more change/improve each other as persons, as such people trust higher and differ much by types.
Semiduality, in average, means you'll have not satisfied hunger for 3rd by strenght (in Jung model) function and lesser acceptance for your 2 valued functions.
For example, LII (doubt in your T) will not get good support for S, his interests to Ne and Si will be lesser accepted. There will be boring and some opposing situation about N.
> Another reason I like EIEs compared to ESEs is that it's easier to talk with them and understand them.
Initial and surface contact is easier with people having similarly strong functions. The problem of different values also becomes more meaningful after a time and on closer personal distance, - as it's lesser noticable than functional strenght.
To cooperate surfacely like pals and colleagues similarity of types helps. For more personally meaningful relations, as friendship, helps functional difference, not similarity. Not situational, but general support what people seek more relates to their weak functions.
I have a SLE - creative sub relative. He's a playboy, funny and charismatic. Always teasing me, making physical joke whenever he has a chance. (I'm such an easy target huh?)
I love Se ego creative sub lol, they make me feel much much more alive. I also have a good friendship with a LSI - C guy.
You've said you don't really like SEEs much, right?
I thought it was interesting that you preferred your semi-duals, and wanted to double-check.
I had a long discussion yesterday with my lesbian ESI-Se Dual about my Semi-Duals, because she is dating one (an EII) right now. In other words, she’s dating her Kindred.
She seems a lot happier with EII than she was with the LSI (two years together and then a stormy breakup) or the SLE (two years together and then agreed to go their separate ways). But the ESI has been working with me on and off for almost ten years and she’s well aware of how she feels in a Dual relationship.
The ESI asked me what EIIs are like.
I told her that she and her GF share a dominant function and a lot of other characteristics which can make each other appear to be as interesting as Duals are to each other, sort of like my relationship with LSEs. But it’s not all smooth sailing.
I told her about an incident this week when I and an LIE that I know were talking about an LSE who works with him. They are also Kindred.
”Nice guy,” I said to the LIE.
”Nice guy if you like assholes”, the LIE said.
The ESI’s face fell.
I then went on and described to the ESI my relationship with my semi-Dual EII secretary. That she was like the ESI in that I felt I could take her anywhere and be proud of her. That she was modest and attractive and smart and Damn if she wasn’t everything a man could want in a woman and I’d be married to her right now if I didn’t know about Socionics, because she is single and she thinks I’m the best thing she’s ever seen.
I told the ESI that, one magic evening after taking the EII out to dinner at the best restaurant in town and just being proud to be with her, we had returned to our cars in the parking lot and under the moon and stars she had stood very close to me and looked up into my eyes with an expression that said “Well, how about it, big boy?”
And I couldn’t do it because she’s not a Dual. She’s not the whole package. She and I can’t work together as seamlessly as I can and have with the ESI.
One thing that I really didn’t appreciate when I first started reading the descriptions of the ESI-LIE Duality is the importance of mutual work to this dyad. I’ve found ESIs who are full ESIs and I get along with them perfectly, but we broke up because we weren’t working towards the same goal.
I’ve discovered that the two requirements I have for a mate are that she be ESI and that we have a common working goal. All else is background noise.
The EII semi-Dual and I could not motivate each other to do each other’s wishes. The ESI and I do each other’s bidding effortlessly.
Relationships with my Semi-Duals are really easy to start. There is a lot of admiration there and we quickly decide that we really like each other.
In contrast, my relationships with my Duals are a huge amount of work to start. ESIs only seem to know one word, but they know it in infinite variations. That word is No. No no no NO no No no No No.
The difference between my Duals and my Semi-Duals appears later. With the Semi-Duals, we join up right away and then discover that we don’t work together well. With my Duals, if we don’t work together, nothing gets started. But if we DO work together, then things fall into place seamlessly.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-26-2021 at 01:21 PM.
They’re generally good people and occasionally helpful when it comes to practical things but their advice often feels like unwelcome nagging or condescension and I sometimes dread being stuck in a one on one conversation with older ones
Last edited by Averroes; 11-26-2021 at 01:41 PM.
I think that the minor degree of separation in semi-duality helps keep things interesting. Personally, I tend to find some LIIs fascinating, not to mention that LSIs look “nice” but many LIIs, due to the phenotype of their psyche and the aesthetics they choose, acquire a certain physique du role that can make them look twisted, if you will believe it, which intrigues me. They're a sunshine once you've met them but it's still a bonus. However, having observed an ESI-LSE marriage, the downside to a long-term relationship between negativist semi-duals is that if it includes having a child, it'd better be a positivist. A household of negativists becomes a bit oppressive at times.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
SEEs are so fun. from what i’ve seen, they command attention even if they’re not particularly trying to and i admire how capable they seem. but i agree with Toro in that i prefer illusionary. because out of anything about my semi dual it’s the creative fi that makes me a bit insecure and uncomfortable lol
Another thread about semi-duality? I feel like this is like the 15th thread about it but oh well I'll just kinda say again what I said in the other ones hehe.
Can be very playful, mutual loving and affectionate but I don't respond well if they try to tell me what to do or get too bossy. I find their Te HA really annoying at times and they have found my Ti HA likewise quite annoying. I like their Se and their raw power. Can sometimes get into dramatic bitch fights with each other but don't stay upset with each other for very long usually. More grudge inducing than grudge holding. I think these relations are generally more good than bad, but I also have a feeling you don't really want to be with your semi-dual for long periods of time or anything lol. Because over time having your hidden agenda being the other person's polr is kind of like an insidious infection. It's kinda like 'ahhh I have a lot of natural affection for them - this should just be working more than this for that reason!' But it never ever really does. A puzzle piece that doesn't quite fit. But on an emotional and "spiritual" level it's really.... nice.
I was married to my semi-dual for 18 years. He did his thing and I did my thing, but I think it lacked some passion in the end(could be normal). He told my son he always liked how I'd be silent in a group like I wasn't paying attention and then I'd say something really funny and make everyone laugh(I was paying attention) lol We just grew apart. We'd always discuss our interests with each other, and so it was simulating, yes. We'd also take college courses together.
He's married to an ESI now and I think he appreciates her Fi from what I have observed. He seems like a much more compassionate person now, but he describes her as needy and jealous.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
I am really into the idea of meeting a semi-dual. I have matched with a cute SEE but yet to meet him. I haven’t known many male semi-duals but I have known semi-duals (male and female) who have impressed me with their conversation. Have also had close female SEE friends who were really fun. My SEE aunt is older and has had problems but still manages to be full of life and laughter and make me feel like life is something special and shiny, like there is a point to it, a secret to keep discovering.
I haven’t had a boyfriend before but I’ve had some big crushes, the biggest were on an EIE guy and more recently my friend and colleague, an SEI. Both seemed a bit ‘out of my league’ and I was left feeling very low when the SEI rejected me..I feel like he looks down on me, at least it comes across this way so of course that’s painful. Well, I suddenly remembered that I got chatted up by a cute SEE guy a couple of years ago.
Sadly, I was not in a good headspace and we didn’t exchange numbers. I was on a night out and I had recently had my heart broken by the SEI guy and had just discovered socionics after many years of mental health struggles. I was only just learning to type. A youngish guy came up to me in the club and asked for my number..he was kinda cute but I was taken aback by how direct he was so awkwardly said maybe later or something. Later I kept trying to look out for him and was kicking myself for not talking to him more. Anyway later in the night another guy got talking to me (I don’t generally get chatted up this much lol) and by this point I was a bit drunk and depressed. He was cute but a little reserved although he was talking to me a lot. I could tell he wanted me to show a bit more interest because he was hinting at being interested but not coming straight out with it (SEEs sometimes need a bit of encouragement) but at the time it was too much for me because I had no confidence and was uncomfortable initiating romance. I felt confused and panicked and didn’t quite register how handsome, mysterious and interesting this guy seemed. On the level of my top two crushes (EIE and SEI guys). Or maybe close to them. Sadly we did not swap numbers and maybe it was not the right time anyway and maybe he still wasn’t right for me. He would have been more right for me than the EIE and SEI guys though.
So what is my point…I dunno maybe there really is a smouldering hot semi-dual
of your dreams out there? I don’t know if that type of semi-dual is the most compatible type of semi-dual for long term success…but maybe when it comes to semi-duals there are semi-duals out there that are your dream guy but in a realistic form. Similarly to the SEI and EIE he had dark hair, a mysterious aura, trendy style and good taste in music/clubs. I have no idea if he was as clever as them but i think he was smart. So yeah, maybe your semi-dual really can give you that boost to realise your social self-worth like I’ve read about them. I will not forget him in a hurry.
I doubt I’ll find another SEE so good but if I did find one and they were something close, I think I’d be thrilled.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 01-02-2022 at 09:30 PM.
I'm going to say it yet again. Attachment issues. 18 years? I'd wager it was 18 years of both of you being absolutely miserable with hardly any sex happening to boot. I hate to go there but you go to/attract the attentions of an ILI if you're in need of a "harsh" truth/prognosis delivered right to your face. Furthermore, I bet you never dared to voice the reasons as to why to each other. That is, you didn't openly share and exchange needs. Oh you'd try to no doubt, but the attempts actually boiled down to what both of you thought were obvious hints but really weren't because of the dual reasons of male and female communication is different and how each type would attempt to honestly communicate their needs being different. Once you can wrap your head around both it's an easy enough calculation to make. Though, once more, this requires both to be securely attached to each other.
Seems like he (and by extension his new wife) still hasn't fixed them completely. In my own conjectures it's actually no surprise. The "Benefactor-Beneficiary" relation is much preferable to the broken over that of semi-duality. Why? Because they're both giving each other something the other wants yet it never really satisfies one side over the other. In this case, the ESI is the more "needy" of the pair and the SLI is subconsciously happy about that even as they complain about it. Remember, the "broken" seek to "earn" love and validation over taking a more abundant mindset. The healthy trust that once the right person is met they will just give it out without any strings attached and that they will do so in turn. Within reason of course. No romance is ever "ideal" even between duals but I hope you get the gist of my point.
Yeah, I can see how I'd have handled that. The SEE would make a ton of points and hint at shit over and over and then, because to me they're obviously avoiding saying something important (and seem a bit sexually frustrated I'd bet), I'd have just gotten frustrated myself and said "Ok that's it. It sounds like you're attracted to/hitting on me. Be honest (I look them square in the eyes, locking my pupils onto theirs as I say the next part as I tried to maintain my best poker face). Are you?"
That'd probably get the SEE to just plainly say "Yes!". To which I'd respond: "Wow. I wasn't expecting that. Ok then, we'll... start dating! What's your schedule look like and what are your favorite things to do (whips out a notepad)? How many times would you like to meet up each week? I do hope it's more than 2 as I believe we're going to get along very well. I'm not rich though, so no super-fancy restaurants. Though, if you're willing to 'Go Dutch' we can easily recreate a rather expensive dish on a budget."
This might be why you didn't get that SEE. The-
axis is just too damn "rational" in this sense. You just needed to blurt out your feelings without a filter and they would have gotten it. Screw what anyone or everyone else has to say. What do you feel like saying? What do you want? This is how we gamma's think. True authenticity is the greatest aphrodisiac and also most direct path to happiness far as we can see. Stop wearing a mask, just tear it off and if other people tell you to crawl into a ditch and die when you do? Well fuck em'! Do what ya want!
We had sex at least three times a week sometimes every day. The sex was never lacking and we were both open to each other, there. I met the SLI when I was 14 and he was my first kiss. We weren't open to each other emotionally in that we didn't discuss feelings. I never understood why, but our sex life was healthy. Neither of us were the kind of people who discussed feelings, but looking back we should have found a way. I guess that can be an attachment issue.
After being with the ESI he actually apologized to me for never being compassionate.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
It actually is. See, you wouldn't have avoided discussing your true feelings if you sought to have a truly happy relationship.
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caregiver-infantile sex is more concerned with physical duties over raw passion like
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Aggressor-Victim sex so even if you had frequent sex I'd bet it was just a "going through the motions" kind of thing. You were just "doing your duty" over "satisfying deep seated needs" as it were. Not that the former couples can't have intense and deeply satisfying sex lives, but such a sex life will, once again, require secure attachment. For example, a "caregiver"
So what I hear you saying is you want it hard and fast.
That makes sense.It actually is. See, you wouldn't have avoided discussing your true feelings if you sought to have a truly happy relationship.
I don't know if I was just going through the motions because we were attracted to each other and liked having sex. I did find some of his opinions odd, like, he wouldn't let me wear thong panties. He thought thong panties were degrading, and so I never wore them. I'd try spicing things up sometimes and just "nope! I don't want the whore, I want the girl next door" I was something very innocent to him... So I did just "okay, whatever floats your boat" I just thought since we were together so long he'd like to try new things, but not really.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
@Sol
Semiduality, in average, means you'll have not satisfied hunger for 3rd by strenght (in Jung model) function and lesser acceptance for your 2 valued functions.
For example, LII (doubt in your T) will not get good support for S, his interests to Ne and Si will be lesser accepted. There will be boring and some opposing situation about N.
The basic problem is that I'm not sure I want the kind of "acceptance" you find in duality as a long-term relationship. Duality can be great and there's definitely something to it, but I think there's a tendency toward stagnation. In an LII-ESE relationship, the ESE certainly appreciates the Ti and Ne, but is not going to be able to respond in kind at all. Despite an unconscious compatibility, conscious development is limited. Semiduality seems like a potentially good compromise, maybe especially for rational types, because you get that same unconscious appreciation for each other's base function, but there are enough differences to keep things moving, and since you share each other's creative as your demo, you can not only engage them but understand each other to a better degree, and therefore better appreciate them, compared to duals who, despite all their compatibility, don't really understand each other at all.
You make good point in that a person can, often times, rely heavily on the ego functions and, thus, perplex their dual. The dual sees value in their dual's ego functions but maybe not so much for their heavy reliance upon them.
For example, an LSI might see value in the EIEs use of Fe but have a tough time understanding how a person could ever rely on Fe to that extent.
Of course, that's just my take on it
OK, so I overheard something today from my aunt, an ESE married to an LII. She was fired from three jobs in two months, because she's on antidepressants that "make me stupid." Her family is having a rough time financially because of this and previous work-related trouble. But she explained "I can choose smart or I can choose comfort, but [her husband] is smart, and I have to choose comfort."
I think this basically supports what I've been thinking about the tendency toward complacency. The LII in this relationship is constantly stressed and is the only one of the two with the intelligence or willingness to support their teenage kids (not only working, but doing things like picking them up from school, making sure they're fed/making financial decisions, etc) while the ESE is unemployed, I'm pretty sure she does close to nothing at home since I've heard she sometimes just lies in bed for a couple days, and has been talking about wanting to arrange flowers for a career, because apparently she once entered a flower shop and "was overwhelmed with such a sense of peace." I'm sure being heavily psychiatrically medicated is a big influence on this, but based on other dual couples I've seen I think it's exacerbating tendencies that are already there. It seems to me that in long-term duality relationships at least one partner will give up their energies in certain areas. I don't think it's dependent on type since I also know an ESE-LII couple where the LII was the one who gave up and depends on the ESE to do most things.
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