Is it possible to be neurotypical and deeply isolated?

[Averroes]

It seems like 99.9% of people I meet have rich, dynamic social lives and the perfect amount of emotional intelligence no matter what they’re like. Fe-valuing vs Fi-valuing and extroversion vs introversion are barely relevant distinctions irl from my perspective - you can be a Ni-ILI and still have elite social skills compared to me on average and be able to flirt with a girl successfully if you’re reasonably put together. There must be something wrong with my brain structurally (like undiagnosed Aspergers), and if that’s the case, I’ll probably never be able to live the kind of life I want

I went on a date this week and was straight up asked if I was on a spectrum because she’d never had a date that awkward before. That means that out of all the creeps and losers that she’s probably met, I was the worst one because I lack something that 99.9% of humans have

[Averroes]

post a vid, otherwise you're bullshiting

So you can see if it’s because I’m ugly? It’s bigger than just dating. Most ugly people have friends, come off well and are comfortable in their own skin

[Metamorph]

It seems like 99.9% of people I meet have rich, dynamic social lives and the perfect amount of emotional intelligence no matter what they’re like. Fe-valuing vs Fi-valuing and extroversion vs introversion are barely relevant distinctions irl from my perspective - you can be a Ni-ILI and still have elite social skills compared to me on average and be able to flirt with a girl successfully if you’re reasonably put together. There must be something wrong with my brain structurally (like undiagnosed Aspergers), and if that’s the case, I’ll probably never be able to live the kind of life I want

I went on a date this week and was straight up asked if I was on a spectrum because she’d never had a date that awkward before. That means that out of all the creeps and losers that she’s probably met, I was the worst one because I lack something that 99.9% of humans have

It's possible to be neurotypical and isolated, but if your girlfriend is saying she's never had a date that awkward before it doesn't sound like that's how it is in this particular case.

[Averroes]

bullshit

i get it, everything’s a conspiracy to you. Take your third eye and leave my thread if you’re not going to be helpful

[Averroes]

I can post text receipts of the conversation I had with her after

[Averroes]

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Maybe have a silent sitting next time or cuddle or go shopping. Talk is cheap, meaningless bs and we cannot really get to know others anyway.

[Averroes]

Maybe have a silent sitting next time or cuddle or go shopping. Talk is cheap, meaningless bs and we cannot really get to know others anyway.

it was a first date and I’m most likely not getting a second one. She can be as empathetic as she wants, but no woman it eager to deal with a broken man this early

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

it was a first date and I’m most likely not getting a second one

She said she finds you very attractive

inb4 it was averroes texting himself

[Averroes]

She said she finds you very attractive

inb4 it was averroes texting himself

only because I brought it up/kind of fished for it

[Averroes]

Dude knowing girls I don't think she'd say it just like that ESPECIALLY after you literally walked out of a date, she sounds sweet you gotta work on loving yourself my man

it’d be very easy for her to set up another tinder date with someone who’s fun and baggageless, and I’d imagine she has already. The momentum is gone - all of the texts I’ve sent since then have a tinge of sadness to them or desperation to make her forget about what happened. People fall for rosy illusions of who people here are initially and I completely shattered them with that date

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

i think its possible
but i also think u prolly have ADHD (as prolly most if not all Se egos do)
yeah u can change ur wiring and those things are not rigid and exagarated like what the stereotype is, one thing that comes with ADHD is a lot of nervousness, and if u have been isolated for a long time as someone with ADHD needs constant stimulation, the push back would be that u could be much more anxious than a neurotypical would be

it’d be very easy for her to set up another tinder date with someone who’s fun and baggageless, and I’d imagine she has already. The momentum is gone - all of the texts I’ve sent since then have a tinge of sadness to them or desperation to make her forget about what happened. People fall for rosy illusions of who people here are initially and I completely shattered them with that date

i believe it may even be possible to fix it, but u need to drop the insecurity and respect/understand her feelings and her trying to keep things going, and if it turns out she doesnt, u can prepare a cope for that kind of sitaution to get over it mentally before it has happenned, or deal with it as it comes

[Averroes]

Yet she found it worth her time to talk to you, tell you she thinks you're very attractive, and that hopefully you can remain friends after you walked out on her. At most this is just an awkward situation that can be overcome.

idk man, she’s responding to me and still using exclamation points and smileys but not with the same level of enthusiasm, curiosity or detail. I feel like I’m talking to a coworker/LinkedIn connection about their weekend plans now. She’s definitely cooled off

[lavos]

You require a boost on your self-confidence. That's what turned her off I think.

Some tips (even though I'm in no position, but still, I would like to help you)

-Do you work out, play a sport, or exercise? If you don't, you will find once you start doing it, you will feel much more comfortable in your own skin (along with the other added benefits).

-Don't ever start the romance attempt in a self-derogatory manner (like that convo you showed). You might do this later once you have a more established relationship. The first impressions are very important.

Regardless, she seems a bit strange (is she IEE?) and maybe not the best choice. It seems she mistook your shyness for sonething else, which I would have found pretty insulting. She might not have meant ill, but that was strange (also considering it might have been partly her fault you happened to present yourself like this, like it's likely).

Find an ENTj or LSE woman, and you'll see how little BS you have to deal with. Good luck.

[lavos]

Yet she found it worth her time to talk to you, tell you she thinks you're very attractive, and that hopefully you can remain friends after you walked out on her. At most this is just an awkward situation that can be overcome.

Not likely. The convo shows 'friendzoned" attemp.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

u know she kinda seems judgy and self righteous i didnt read the convo before wtf is that wording. maybe she feels weak and needed to power trip. her wanting to stay friends may be expressing her own vulnerability. i imagine an ESE would do that

[Averroes]

You require a boost on your self-confidence. That's what turned her off I think.

Some tips (even though I'm in no position, but still, I would like to help you)

-Do you work out, play a sport, or exercise? If you don't, you will find once you start doing it, you will feel much more comfortable in your own skin (along with the other added benefits).

-Don't ever start the romance attempt in a self-derogatory manner (like that convo you showed). You might do this later once you have a more established relationship. The first impressions are very important.

Regardless, she seems a bit strange (is she IEE?) and maybe not the best choice. It seems she mistook your shyness for sonething else, which I would have found pretty insulting. She might not have meant ill, but that was strange (also considering it might have been partly her fault you happened to present yourself like this, like it's likely).

Find an ENTj or LSE woman, and you'll see how little BS you have to deal with. Good luck.

I think she was delta NF

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

From what I read of your posts you are analyzing people and probably seeing through them accurately- which does tend to come across as creepy because most people just want to be charmed and it just isn't charming.... and even if ur 100% correct in your insight (or not) it probably just creeps them out.

She just liked u were cuz ur were hot to her and wanted u to be arrogant and charming and sweep her off her feet- she wasn't ready to handle ur own sensitives either or how men can have feelings too. She wanted u 2 be the jerk that she had to save and she wasn't prepared to be the jerk herself that made u feel offended and caused u to storm out. So you triggered the 'this is backwards romantically' signals in her brain and u got friend zoned.

I feel bad for you though, I don't mean that in a patronizing way but your posts often make me kind of grimace compassionately. It's not entirely your fault and young women do expect too much to be charmed by a Chad instead of looking at the reality of a situation. But it's abusive and jerkish to honestly point that out, and they just want to be charmed or gaslighted again. "Let's go for a walk" isn't charming or gaslighting enough- so it does nothing for str8 female's hormonal cycles. Maybe u can say that Delta shit once ur already a couple but the first date? How boring.

A girl I knew was into a guy telling her to go on walks, but only because she was too fat like Ricki Lake and clearly needed to work out. I know that might sound 'too mean' but that is the kinda shit str8 females like romantically because heterosexuality is both disgusting and immoral.

It's not just str8 ppl tho. It's human nature and we're all disgusting and immoral. "they are teasing u confidently cuz they like u boo" Look at how often DEAD calls me fat and old- and everybody with eyes can or should see we have a crush on each other. Like MissDucki did. /hides

next time if you sense it's awkward but you like her and want to keep her- then learn how to tease her playfully. This just creates chemistry. Don't be too much of a hurtful ass, but be str8 and macho and confident and outgoing.

[Bethanyclaire]

I’ve only read a bit of the thread so feel free to ignore. I went on a date the other night and I did wonder if the guy was a little autistic. We had matched a couple of times and he looked ok. I didn’t have high hopes but I wasn’t worried about the date either. He told me all about chess he messaged after but I didn’t feel like I needed to reply. We had no chemistry whatsoever. Maybe he isn’t autistic. He had spotted me on the apps twice and he clearly could see there was something. Yes- that something was that we were duals, but duals with zero chemistry. Kind of like friends but more like acquaintances. Looking back I should have known better..he wasn’t unattractive but I just didn’t feel intrigued by his photograph. He seemed like a kind, nice person- maybe he has a more vibrant side to him that I didn’t see. But he def needs someone more vibrant than me. Together we were nothing. I hope he realises from that date that chemistry is more than polite chit chat. He does have friends. He probably needs to be himself more and then he’ll figure out what type of woman to go for.

Personally I have gone from being a bit of a mess to far far more normal in the space of a couple of years. It’s possible to tap into your strengths and find confidence in them.

I’ve found that in the UK Ok Cupid seems like a good app for finding someone who is hot but safe. As a woman that’s where I’ll go if really really want to find someone. (If I give up looking for someone more?)

I also had a date with an SLE recently who was another interesting one. Both seemed IEI-ish. Nice guys but for some reason far more sensitive than the typical SLE. But they need to tap into their ti more and realise that if they’re gonna find someone, they need to look inside and think about what they have to offer and what they need from someone. Opposites attract. You can’t just be nice, you have to know your strengths, even if only a vague sense of them, be in control. I think that’s when you start attracting better people (or noticing) and also won’t scare them off as your true personality will shine and feel authentic.

I recently cleared a load of old matches from messages- a sign of me becoming more confident that I know what I need, and I don’t want to waste time on wishing washy people. I am happy to take the lead, but I think I can tell if they have potential..in a way I couldn’t before.

[Averroes]

I went on a second “date” with her and think she could be ILE. She’s very good at destroying my ego and making me feel like I should be okay with it and want to continue seeing her while she figures her shit out

[myresearch]

@Averroes Based on text, it seems like you are assuming the worst which can be true or not. Tbh her asking that is a abit socially awkward itself. But it seems like your perspective about yourself can make the situation worse even it isnt like that.

You can turn the situation in your favour, check it out if they are true by asking or just say nope and move on to a next topic without storming off.

By the way, saying you wanted to be attractive and charming is honest and vulnerable, but dont say those kind of things especially at the initial stages.

[EIE H]

idk man, she’s responding to me and still using exclamation points and smileys but not with the same level of enthusiasm, curiosity or detail. I feel like I’m talking to a coworker/LinkedIn connection about their weekend plans now. She’s definitely cooled off

To be honest, she probably just doesn’t want to come off too eager but still likes you. She’s probably still looking for some indication that you like her and want to continue. If you initiated another date, acknowledge the awkwardness of the first date and then have fun, it will be water under the bridge. You’re making things more awkward by fixating on your misstep.

[Averroes]

To be honest, she probably just doesn’t want to come off too eager but still likes you. She’s probably still looking for some indication that you like her and want to continue. If you initiated another date, acknowledge the awkwardness of the first date and then have fun, it will be water under the bridge. You’re making things more awkward by fixating on your misstep.

we went on a second date yesterday and she “friend zoned” me at the end even though I thought that it went incredibly well. I literally couldn’t have been more charming, talkative and at ease with myself. I guess I’m just ugly

[EIE H]

we went on a second date yesterday and she “friend zoned” me at the end even though I thought that it went incredibly well. I literally couldn’t have been more charming, talkative and at ease with myself. I guess I’m just ugly

It doesn’t necessarily have to do with physical attractiveness. She said she thought you were very attractive. It can often come down to a certain chemistry (a combination of physical, emotional, mental chemistry). There are very attractive men where the thought of sex turns me off. I feel this way towards my SLI guy friend.

[Averroes]

It doesn’t necessarily have to do with physical attractiveness. She said she thought you were very attractive. It can often come down to a certain chemistry (a combination of physical, emotional, mental chemistry). There are very attractive men where the thought of sex turns me off. I feel this way towards my SLI guy friend.

Maybe. I think she was Ne-ego + So/Sp. She had a whole checklist of what she looks for in a partner and a weird sort of detachment/willingness to keep failed romantic prospects around as friends. She supposedly didn’t even know it was a date

[EIE H]

Maybe. I think she was Ne-ego + So/Sp. She had a whole checklist of what she looks for in a partner and a weird sort of detachment/willingness to keep failed romantic prospects around as friends

A supervisor/conflictor isn’t that fun… other than the possibility of sex. Her Ne would eventually drive you nuts for a relationship. I would trust her if she says you’re attractive. Most women wouldn’t have bothered to go on a second date if they don’t find you attractive on some level.

[Clarke]

It seems like 99.9% of people I meet have rich, dynamic social lives and the perfect amount of emotional intelligence no matter what they’re like. Fe-valuing vs Fi-valuing and extroversion vs introversion are barely relevant distinctions irl from my perspective - you can be a Ni-ILI and still have elite social skills compared to me on average and be able to flirt with a girl successfully if you’re reasonably put together. There must be something wrong with my brain structurally (like undiagnosed Aspergers), and if that’s the case, I’ll probably never be able to live the kind of life I want

I went on a date this week and was straight up asked if I was on a spectrum because she’d never had a date that awkward before. That means that out of all the creeps and losers that she’s probably met, I was the worst one because I lack something that 99.9% of humans have

So I have no idea if I'm neurotypical, but I'm definitely isolated. Some people consider to be normal, and I've even been called compliments like "unique" in a way that I think was positive. Others think I have some kind of autism. Over the course of my life, I developed from a quiet kid who had barely any real life friends to someone that could engage in social conversation, although I'm not really sure whether people perceived me as weird after my social development. On some level, I've always been socially unaware.

[Clarke]

Well I've historically been kinda oblivious to social convention, but I think that storming off would be a bad idea. It would probably be better to say something like "excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom" and then leave. It's awkward, but it makes the person a little puzzled instead of seeming rude I guess. Later, you can look better to that person. There's probably a chance that they'll forget about it.

I'm 3E, possible Ni-Te, w5, and potentially So 3, so I can't really make a judgement call about whether this is spectrum behavior.

Edit: I guess I have trouble making a judgement call because I don't know what I'd be like if I had different skills or perspectives.

[Clarke]

u know she kinda seems judgy and self righteous i didnt read the convo before wtf is that wording. maybe she feels weak and needed to power trip. her wanting to stay friends may be expressing her own vulnerability. i imagine an ESE would do that

Something bothers me about "but word of advice, don't storm off when you're on a date with a woman.". Maybe it seems entitled somehow. Kind of like she's judging him for storming off on a woman, like that's some kind of wrong act.

[Clarke]

I don't mean to flood the thread, but I have an additional set of points to contribute that might be useful. When I broke up with people, I tried to "be friends" as well. I think it's a sort of diplomatic thing, maybe to make sure that the person doesn't hate you.

After you're friends, I've learned that you can sometimes stop being conversation partners by not talking as much. It seems like if you're just polite, or if you fail to engage in the conversation meaningfully, conversations between the two of you might dwindle. Somehow, you'd have to be subtle about this so that you don't anger the other person.

I guess if it's too painful to talk to the person, maybe you could kind of say that you don't want to be friends in a polite or self depreciating way. It might be harder to fault you if you say that you're in the wrong for not wanting to be friends (it would be kind of a "it's me, not you" situation). Somehow, you'd have to do this without looking too weak though because some people would capitalize on that. Somehow, you might also want to reassure them that you won't mean harm to them in the future in a subtle way, if possible.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Something bothers me about "but word of advice, don't storm off when you're on a date with a woman.". Maybe it seems entitled somehow. Kind of like she's judging him for storming off on a woman, like that's some kind of wrong act.

it is wrong bc it makes her feel hurt and abandoned and she wanted him but maybe she took it too personally and tries to control him too much idk

[Clarke]

it is wrong bc it makes her feel hurt and abandoned and she wanted him but maybe she took it too personally and tries to control him too much idk

I'm not sure. I might be reading too much into it.

[godslave]

Yes, it's possible. Depression can do that. I am neurotypical and deeply isolated, I basically live as if in "lockdown" condition for years. With that said, autism doesn't necessarily equate deep isolation, in fact most autistic people esp in the "low functioning" side of the spectrum are not socially isolated, on the contrary since they need special care and attention.


Since the initial question of the thread turned into a dating experience conversation :

we went on a second date yesterday and she “friend zoned” me at the end even though I thought that it went incredibly well. I literally couldn’t have been more charming, talkative and at ease with myself. I guess I’m just ugly

/Caveman mode on

Finding a mate is a natural and survival imperative skill or instinct everyone has and the best way to weaken that skill is to intellectualize it too much. Dating Mating is a mindset, I'm sorry to say it but it's true, it's a question of disposition and will to assert a sexual energy. Women who find men with weak sexual energy sexy (ST women of Dominant subtype (?)) are rather rare imho and I'm not talking about the dualisation process like an ESE falling for an LII (regardless of gender) but about a more sociological phenomena deeply ingrained in the collective unconscious of most socions in the world. What I mean is that flirting and dating i.e. parading is useless if it is not sexualized because this is what it's all about : mating. No matter the gender and/or sexual orientation there will always be a dynamic of seduction i.e. an emphasis of instincts over reason.

I was watching a documentary about the sexless phenomena in Japan. Some girls were complaining about what they perceive as a lack of virility of the new generation of men (in their 20's). It's just that sexual energy is all over the places, in walls, boutiques, billboards etc.. Everywhere except in the attitude of those young people. Some young Japanese (both men and women (or else I guess !)) are so desperate about getting some affection. You can literally rent a girlfriend or boyfriend for a date or pretending that you have one in a social situation etc.. There are cuddling shops in japan. Japan is one of the most prolific country in the world in terms pornography (video, anime, mangas). This market health seems to be correlated with the decline of sexual activity interest in the japanese real life relationships. It's interesting to note that in Japanese (and some other) culture and tradition, nudity and sex have never had that taboo connotation (maybe until the end of Sakoku and the advent of the Meiji Era) unlike western and other civilizations which are deeply rooted in Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) in which nudity and sex is taboo.


It seems to me that the more codified our courting mores become the more difficult it is to find a partner despite all those apps and dating market of which the success attests of an increase in dating difficulties in the society. I think that mating was (and maybe still is) easier in archaic tribes for instance and I'm obviously not talking about forced unions or arranged marriages for whatever reasons (like politics etc) but about seduction and mutually consented romantic relationships.

"(...) whoever is not able to marry, should fast, as fasting diminishes his sexual power." - Muhammad Messenger of God (PbuH)

In some countries people can't marry before having a decent social situation and/or status and that can take a long time. In Islamic countries for instance the "incels" phenomena was a thing very long before that word has been made popular. Most people in those countries are some kind of incels until they get married around age 30 to 50 ( yes that's a stretch !). Obviously all that sexual tension has to go somewhere and/or be sublimated in some "higher purpose" and valuing chastity is in most cases the alternative which makes sexual denial a bit more acceptable, at least it's a convenient reason in the eyes of people. Some fast, but most have sex because love is love and love is all !!

Anyway, think positive ! What you really really want, you get ! What you really really don't want you get too ! (I don't remember who said that but I find it cool even if it's not true !). Enough of rambling and pretending that I know what I'm talking about !

[Popcorn]

It seems like 99.9% of people I meet have rich, dynamic social lives and the perfect amount of emotional intelligence no matter what they’re like. Fe-valuing vs Fi-valuing and extroversion vs introversion are barely relevant distinctions irl from my perspective - you can be a Ni-ILI and still have elite social skills compared to me on average and be able to flirt with a girl successfully if you’re reasonably put together. There must be something wrong with my brain structurally (like undiagnosed Aspergers), and if that’s the case, I’ll probably never be able to live the kind of life I want

Same. I've accepted that I'm bad at life. But at least you are trying, that's pretty awesome.

[Averroes]

I could tell early on that we probably weren’t a match long term, but that doesn’t mean we couldn’t have had fun for a few weeks/months

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Why was storming off such a big deal? Did she have to pay?
Looks like she holds a mirror for you that confirms beliefs you have about yourself. Doesn't matter if she does that consciously or unconsciously.
You stormed off a date and it propelled you to wonder if you are autistic. What does being autistic mean to you?

[Averroes]

Why was storming off such a big deal? Did she have to pay?
Looks like she holds a mirror for you that confirms beliefs you have about yourself. Doesn't matter if she does that consciously or unconsciously.
You stormed off a date and it propelled you to wonder if you are autistic. What does being autistic mean to you?

it means not being able to attract the fun, relatively well adjusted women that I like. I dated someone who was similar to me and was so unfulfilled and put off by her vibe towards the end that I had to break it off.

I like women that are sensual, vivacious, dynamic, can take a joke, etc. but they want nothing to do with autistic men

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

I see the appeal of labels and the sympathetic communities and interactions that come with them. I think the 'friendzone' in this case is pretty cool because it may spare you the effort and you can have an easier time checking if she 'can take a joke'.

[The Reality Denialist]

Well, there are no neurotypicals. It is just a scam state but you can certainly be more neuroatypical than most.

Curios thing is that very neuroatypical can be extremely connected - that's also one manifestation of atypicality.

[Popcorn]

Can you really be bad at life though? Or you are just bad at reaching others’ expectations because your truest self doesn’t have to meet them in the first place?

Yes, I can and am. I'm bad at reaching expectations for not being bad at life. My truest self is bad at life.