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Thread: Your opinion on loops and grips

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    Default Your opinion on loops and grips

    Loops and grips are MBTI concepts but I kinda buy that people reflect these concepts

    For those unfamiliar, a loop is "comfortable" state where one engages in their lead and HA functions to remain in a consistent state of introversion (for introverts) or extraversion (for extraversion). Ex: An LIE would engage in a Te-Se loop

    A grip would be a state where one unhealthily indulges their DS function as a consequence of leaning into their lead function for too long. Ex: ESI would indulge in a Te grip

    Socionics doesn't address these concepts but, imo, these mentalities exist. What are your opinions and takes loops and grips?

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    omg I forgot about the loops and grips lmao. Like an INFJ gets into a Ni-Ti loop? Or an INTJ gets into an Se grip?

    Idk what that would even look like in socionics.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    omg I forgot about the loops and grips lmao. Like an INFJ gets into a Ni-Ti loop? Or an INTJ gets into an Se grip?

    Idk what that would even look like in socionics.
    An IEI in Ni-Ti loop might be rewarded remaining in their introversion because the Ti function gives them the independent strength to isolate themselves. They might engage the Fe function in a superficial way but secretly rationalize way outside feedback in private (avoid Fe influence) since they are naturally & more comfortable being introverted anyway.

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    The inert/contact system seems decently accurate to me, and I type myself as an Ne/contact subtype. I don't personally relate to what I understand of "loops," but this could just be because, being a contact subtype, my HA function is comparatively weak (if anything, I would say I don't use it enough). And I haven't observed enough of other people to make much of the idea one way or the other.

    As for grips, sure. From what I know of it it seems familiar to what Jung wrote of people becoming possessed by their inferior function. I've seen this in other people and experienced it myself.

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    I dont buy it. MBTI doesnt interpret the elements correctly (even among socionist there are a.lot of.such misunderstandings).I think many so-called loops are due to mistyping and misinterpreting the.functions.Example: Jung is LII with a strong demonstrative function. They mistype him as "INFJ" and they.could only explain it as a loop.Also they dont really differentiate Ni and Ne. Sometimes they attribute Ne to Ni.For the grip thing, the DS function could be translated as Suggestible. I think.generally Socionics describe it accurately.

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    I'm yet to see a loop that actually works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoRandomBSGenerator View Post
    I'm yet to see a loop that actually works.
    I doubt that it's impossible theoretically. If the loop exists, it means that:

    1) Extremely introverted, or extremely extraverted. The person either focuses almost entirely on relationships, or almost entirely on objects.
    2) The information oscillates between one static element and one dynamic element.

    One has either static mental ring + dynamic vital ring, or dynamic mental ring + static vital ring. There must be some way to exchange static information and dynamic information but I think the primary information flows are either static or dynamic. For instance I have Ne as my creative and Si as my HA. Although my Ne and Si share the same quadra value, I think my Ne mostly communicate with my Ti.

    I don't really find any real "loops" and most of them seem to be due to either mistypes, or misunderstanding IMEs.

    Jung is a very good example. Many MBTIers mistyped him as an INFJ in Ni-Ti loops but actually his Ti mostly exchanges information with Ne. This is very clear when he gives examples in Psychological Types. He essentially has Ni as his demonstrative function.

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    I have seen this "loop" as in stress/pressure relief. There is a time when the reaching out happens with flashing colors but usually most of it is just something else.
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    I mean, people can be immersed in their 5th and 6th functions in a destructive way. And there's probably consistent observable behavior stemming from such. But the thing is... MBTI is for squares. Like, really dumb people. And I don't deal with that. Not my style. So on that basis, loops and grips can suck it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    But the thing is... MBTI is for squares. Like, really dumb people. .
    Psychological defense mechanism.

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    ummm what? dude, mbti is literally trash. you can't be insinuating i see some greater truth in mbti and I'm just being defensive. wtf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    ummm what? dude, mbti is literally trash. you can't be insinuating i see some greater truth in mbti and I'm just being defensive. wtf
    Taking an entire concept and taking a piss on it is black & white thinking. Your take lacks nuance and indicates a desire to oversimplify or, if you prefer, not consider the unique perspectives or factors which might disrupt your immersion.

    Imo, its no different than calling one philosophy superior while dismissing the other. Your free to do it but it also means your being defensively uninformed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Taking an entire concept and taking a piss on it is black & white thinking. Your take lacks nuance and indicates a desire to oversimplify or, if you prefer, not consider the unique perspectives or factors which might disrupt your immersion.
    I reiterate - wtf? I literally acknowledged the potential in MBTI by saying "people can be immersed in their 5th and 6th functions in a destructive way". MBTI can be used to find potential ideas that one might overlook using Socionics purism, but it's still peripheral. I just don't bother with it now because it's cringe. Seriously, it was mainly a meme post, but you took it seriously. but nah, I must be thinking in black and white terms. alright, buddy. alllllriiiiiiiiiiiiight.

    Imo, its no different than calling one philosophy superior while dismissing the other. Your free to do it but it also means your being defensively uninformed
    Some philosophies are just inferior, my guy. I believe a lot of right can be found in wrong, but still, some are just inferior. I'm not gonna pander to this "e'rythin' is relativ n shieeet" mentality if that's what you hold. If you don't hold that, good. If you do, I will cease to respond further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    I reiterate - wtf? I literally acknowledged the potential in MBTI by saying "people can be immersed in their 5th and 6th functions in a destructive way". MBTI can be used to find potential ideas that one might overlook using Socionics purism, but it's still peripheral. I just don't bother with it now because it's cringe. Seriously, it was mainly a meme post, but you took it seriously. but nah, I must be thinking in black and white terms. alright, buddy. alllllriiiiiiiiiiiiight.


    Some philosophies are just inferior, my guy. I believe a lot of right can be found in wrong, but still, some are just inferior. I'm not gonna pander to this "e'rythin' is relativ n shieeet" mentality if that's what you hold. If you don't hold that, good. If you do, I will cease to respond further.
    Never suggested everything was relative. I simply argued against your point that MBTI is trash. MBTI & socionics can be cool. They can also be lame in certain ways, also

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Never suggested everything was relative. I simply argued against your point that MBTI is trash. MBTI & socionics can be cool. They can also be lame in certain ways, also
    Yeah uh-huh, sure, dude. That's why you totally responded intellectually instead of assuming I was using a psychological defense mechanism. That and on another thread you used the term "social construct". Yeah, man, not gonna do this.

    But still, I reiterate because fun. MBTI is meme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    Yeah uh-huh, sure, dude. That's why you totally responded intellectually instead of assuming I was using a psychological defense mechanism. That and on another thread you used the term "social construct". Yeah, man, not gonna do this.

    But still, I reiterate because fun. MBTI is meme.
    Then don't. You're scatterbrained anyway

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    As cr400af already said, mbti is problematic because they have misunderstood some functions. This will of course impact any further observations negatively.

    About "grips": Jung has already described problems with base-suggestive in detail for all 8 cases, so there is no lack of information.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

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