How and why most ILI's aren't Narcissists

[lkdhf qkb]

Maybe. But what IEEs often do is try to manipulate both sides to try and gain an advantage or pretend to be higher than both when there's really often no such thing as being in the middle of anything. So tell the truth: Are you on ILI or IEIs side more. Probably ILI cuz it's not your conflicting quadra. =D IEE don't have to always be two-face like this, it's okay to take sides because everybody knows who you really are for anyway.

It's funny how some people can never hear criticism and must always accuse others of some kind of battle for moral superiority. What advantage are you even talking about? Is this some Se-inf victimy blaming other people again? What would I have to gain from either taking sides or from being superior to what's happening here? (Btw, isn't the whole playground battle here about moral superiority? "you are the narcissist!" "no ILIs aren't narcisissts, stop burning all my toys you mean IEI"?)

I said this thread sucks same as the one before and that both ILIs and IEIs suck when they do those; but you want to perceive me as two-faced because you don't like to hear that no one cares about this stupid bickering for 4 year-olds.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

It's funny how some people can never hear criticism and must always accuse others of some kind of battle for moral superiority. What advantage are you even talking about? Is this some Se-inf victimy blaming other people again? What would I have to gain from either taking sides or from being superior to what's happening here? (Btw, isn't the whole playground battle here about moral superiority? "you are the narcissist!" "no ILIs aren't narcisissts, stop burning all my toys you mean IEI"?)

I said this thread sucks same as the one before and that both ILIs and IEIs suck when they do those; but you want to perceive me as two-faced because you don't like to hear that no one cares about this stupid bickering for 4 year-olds.

So yea keep asking "On WHoOo'S SiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiDe ArE YoU OoOoOooooNNnnn??"

Funny indeed...

[lkdhf qkb]

Funny indeed...

As I said, you can always write me a pm, but you didn't want to, and preferred to 'insult me openly'. You can't refuse to talk and then accuse me of not listening, you get that, right? Because for now I only get passive aggressiveness, not criticism, but mb that's your strategy all along to continue feeling justified in whatever you're feeling

I'll put you on ignore right now, I think I've waited long enough for some real dialogue, but you can continue commenting on whatever I write if you feel you need to express your bitterness. You can let it all out. I don't care anymore. I think you're a nice guy when you want to(not said disparagingly! this is a compliment for me). Bye!

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

*sigh* reign it in a bit @VewyScawwyNawcissist. I highly doubt she's guilty of all those things you are projecting onto her like a creepy Hannibal. I feel like this thread is getting just as toxic as the other one. Remember that Big Daddy can shut this thread down with his Genie Powers just like he did the other one. If you want to just go on tangents that aren't about the topic at hand- use your 'off my chest' thread for that.

And please don't use spoiler tags to personally harrass other members. That's not what they are for.

Obviously a severely bullied school shooter is both a victim and an offender at the same time (and there are a million other examples) - but nobody is going to listen or care about his pain once he chooses to attack others. And nor should they. Delta virtue signaling nonsense maybe, but all quadras have their place in society.

[DEAD]

I think this thread should be close if it’s just becoming toxic, and people are just using it to attack one another. It’s totally past it’s purpose and use at this point.

It also seems like people have issues and that they need to solve them outside of a Socionics forum.

[DEAD]

The problem is you can just take it to another thread and that thread would be as equally toxic. But I do think that a thread with the title including the phrase "_insert type here_ aren't narcissists" is a good bait for toxicity.

Yeah, people are so easily baited that they just give in and continue the trail. In this case, I think ignoring the person works. If everyone ignores them, they go away. But people let their inner, defensive instincts take over, and they let it spiral out of control and cause more chaos than it's worth.

[SlytherinPower]

Individuals can be narcissistic, not types.

[Bethanyclaire]

When I’m trying to understand ILIs I tell myself to think about Wuthering Heights- think of Heathcliff. I studied that book at school and the class of teenage girls I was in all agreed it was so messed up but we loved it. Our uptight ILI teacher (who btw was a bit of a dick to me) clearly loved it too and it was really fun to study. It’s one of the best books every written. Written by an ILI. It captures the darkness of what means to be human and even though Cathy and Heathcliff are really mean to each other (from what I remember) it’s also one of the saddest and most beautiful love stories around. To be mean and to hurt is to be human, and maybe ILIs can teach us something about dealing with and accepting that.

[Alomoes]

Alright, I actually read this thread this time. Turning over a new leaf part 3, actually read the thread so you understand the context of people going about. Part four is actually responding when quoted. Maybe this will be a two for one, but I don't know.

I have to say, this is very entertaining.

First, we have the person who says yes ILI is narcissistic. I would agree, but only because I have reasoned that all victim type people are narcissistic. By definition, victims have no problem giving their entire being for someone else. Why? Is it perhaps that they are that desperate for attention? Yes. At least in my case, I have goals that are entirely altruistic, but also entirely self serving. Altruism for personal gain, if you would.

Now here is a question nobody has asked. Is narcissism the same as narcissistic personality disorder? In my own definition, the answer is no. Narcissism is putting yourself first. You want to be first in line, and develop strategies for doing so. The strategy devised is victimhood.

Delta and Alpha could care less, they are world affirming. They have no purpose to push onto the world, and tend to worry about enjoying the world's pleasures instead. Anyone who annoys them can go sod off.

In truth, both are kinds of narcissisms. So yeah the argument is pretty silly.

And now my personal responses to this thread's inhabitants.

Scrawny Narcisist

I believe you ought to reconsider your position on ILIs, IEEs, and other such folks. I understand that you are reluctant to, but you've only met the kind of ILI that is incredibly aggressive, and, dare I say, aristocratic. There is the kind that isn't fundamentally broken or recovering from being broken.

A word of warning. I understand you want your independence, however, it is dangerous to bite everyone you meet. Some will double down, and then you'll end up at war. You will lose. I've fought wars like this, and they do not end well. Sadly, you appear to be a veteran of these social wars, so disarming you might take a great deal of effort, but it's probably worth everyone here to do. You appear to have knowledge of the motivations of humanity. Comparing and contrasting notes should be mutually beneficial.

I'll start by saying I disagree with your statement that narcissists are often not diagnosed. Assuming it is narcissistic personality disorder, I would assume that diagnostic criteria has to do with the extreme cases, which are comparatively easy to diagnose. It is not narcissistic personality disorder to be a bully. It is not narcissistic personality disorder to be mean. It is narcissistic personality disorder when you are so skewed and warped in that way that you are self destructive. This is incredibly uncommon. A person with NPD is literally trying to cover their own inadequacies in a manner that might lend them to gross amounts of envy. This is to the detriment of their social standing. You seem to have the opinion that narcissists get what they want. No, they often are ostracized from society because their personality is that extreme. Like being that guy at your friends birthday party who steals presents.

End

You seem to have gone off the deep end a while back, and while I don't understand it, my condolences. It is apt for a 1 enneagram to act in this way where you search out and attempt to destroy all forms of evil. I have nothing to say as you seem to be handling it quite well by not blowing up at VSN. Good job.

Shazaam

You appear to have the tolerance of a god, and a head on your shoulders. That's fairly good in a place like this.

Ikdhf qkb

I would recommend learning the folk psychology of VSN. It's very well developed, and thus would prove useful for comparison to actual theory.

Finally, a blurb on truth. You all seem to pursue the truth like rabid dogs, and guard it equally so. Why do you try and chase something that you cannot catch? Simply let it come to you, and then you can bask in its glory together, and you'll all probably be a degree happier.

I am obligated to post these messages to people because of my ethical nature. I am aware it's of a quality. Hopefully it is acceptable to the group here. It took a lot of concentration to read through all that, and is taking a lot of concentration to sift through all these unfamiliar names. If I mixed you up with someone else, my apologies, I believe I haven't, however my mind is quite scatterbrained, and I make mistakes constantly. The reason for that is a tangent, and I've already spent a good three hours writing this up. My first post in a while, I think I did better than before.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Now here is a question nobody has asked. Is narcissism the same as narcissistic personality disorder? In my own definition, the answer is no. Narcissism is putting yourself first. You want to be first in line, and develop strategies for doing so.

I didn't ask because I knew the answer. It's not the same. However, traits of narcissism are the same as those of narcissistic personality disorder. In order to be diagnosed, one must feel a subjective sense of suffering from these narcissistic traits. Most of the time they don't, they're fine with being that way. You can't diagnose someone for being an asshole. That is not what a disorder is. Narcissism is basically just a set of traits, which exist on a spectrum. Narcissistic personality disorder is experiencing difficulty because of those traits.

[Alomoes]

That's debatable, see, not all narcissists are assholes and not all assholes are narcissists.

[Renna]

If a narcissist is an ILI, he/she’s just being unlucky because there’s almost no good tools for the act of being narcissistic. He/she would be an unsuccessful Narcissist.