DEAD, I'm going to punch your fat head in...
Okay, I have pretty much pinned down and accepted the fact that I am a Beta ST, according to Aushra's model and I do struggle with Ne and Fi infinitely.
But am I LSI or SLE?
[Discuss, ask questions, build arguments and I will dissect] Vibes are NOT a valid argument, need evidence.
Are you or are you not extroverted?
Originally Posted by Great
1. Socially, I'm pretty introverted but cognitively, I would say I am pretty ambiverted, which is where my issue lies.
2. I use a great deal of Se, as is evidenced by wanting control of the environment around me, and organising it effectively.
2a. I am also inclined to use a great deal of Ti alongside the Se to:
i) make sense of the world
ii) systematically order/organise it
iii) restore order in terms of "logical rules"
I'm not sure if this makes me SLE-Ti or LSI-Se.
You are SLE-Ti. No LSI has ever really asked me to spend time alone with them before, I think that would weird them out too badly lol.I know my reasonings for thinking u are SLE-Ti are almost completely 4D Fi and probably hurt ur Fi polr though... when I try to explain them, they aren't logical based- more vibe/emotional energy patterns.
I'll try to be more logical about it later maybe. but yeah dual > activity.
I um see DEAD as SEE /hides/
Yes, you can do that. You are one of the reasons why I am convinced I am Beta ST > SF. It's logically natural. I don't get the same stability and linear connection from any other type, except the two Beta NFs. Gamma NT are connected differently to me in the system of ITR. It's not dualised.You are SLE-Ti. No LSI has ever really asked me to spend time alone with them before, I think that would weird them out too badly lol.
I'll try to be more logical about it later maybe. but yeah dual > activity.
No one has ever given me a proper, fully fleshed out logical reason for SEE with good examples. Not just you.
i'm sorry I can't. I don't have creative Te.
i'm sorry I can't. I don't have creative Te.
Very sarcastic and not a good excuse
but it's not an excuseVery sarcastic and not a good excuse
Yeah, and people don't see that underneath the dumb stereotypes which are prepetuated by more extreme examples of ILE in pop culture, such as Rick Sanchez. Are there ILE like him? Yes. But do I think he should be held as the baseline, like the SLE who happen to enjoy fixing cars are? No. Are those activities that people with Se+Ti can gravitate towards? Of course. Like I have said many times before, it's about the IME. About how the person functions and makes sense of the world which is the most important thing. Not the stereotypes, nor the ITR. It's about programming on humans, not archetypes and there are many vairables that need to be organised and made sense of within the context of socionics. Like many subjects/topics with raw data analysis, there are going to be some anomalies within the graphs, aside from the average and the low end of the types. Subtypes can help explain the differences to a degree, as can other established elements.
Why?
The game has been rigged from the start, since everyone started putting biases into the equation.
Hm hm hm I wonder who actually put the bias in the equation
Well, both sides. One side is biased toward the SEE typing, the other the SLE. If we want to be precise.
When writing me you seemed pretty analytical, but not introverted.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
Yeah, I am a pretty analytical person and expand on the not introverted point, please? In what way?
Usually when I'm writing an introvert I control the conversation. Or I understand that I can control the conversation if I want to. With you, you were more in control of the conversation.
Well, maybe I just think I'm in control of the conversation with introverts.
If I look at all my conversations with introverts and compare it to all my conversations with extroverts, you seem more extroverted to me.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
No, you are a delta NF with a brain tumor.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
You could even give something simple, like Chriscorey did below:but it's not an excuse
I see, that makes sense. In control in a logical, or Se sense?Usually when I'm writing an introvert I control the conversation. Or I understand that I can control the conversation if I want to. With you, you were more in control of the conversation.
Well, maybe I just think I'm in control of the conversation with introverts.
If I look at all my conversations with introverts and compare it to all my conversations with extroverts, you seem more extroverted to me.
Impossible, Delta NF don't have brains to begin with
Se sense.You could even give something simple, like Chriscorey did below:
I see, that makes sense. In control in a logical, or Se sense?
Impossible, Delta NF don't have brains to begin with
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
In all fairness us ILE are known to simplify...You could even give something simple, like Chriscorey did below:
I see, that makes sense. In control in a logical, or Se sense?
Impossible, Delta NF don't have brains to begin with
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
SLE>LSI
I agree with @BandD, I think you are SLE-Ti
I thought you were SLE-Se but, thinking about it more, I am pretty sure you are SLE-Ti. Most likely Dominate or Creative.
I can't see you as Gamma as you really dislike Fi. ALways going after that EII meat
You seem to have 4D Te and 3D Si in my opnion. Why? First, you get pissy at my grammar and spelling lol (im not offended
You don't seem to get very controlling in a Te way or get on the offensive when pushed to it. I can see that with Si. I also view ignoring as the "fantasy function" in terms, I 'fantasize" about Se stuff, like being a badass assassin or pushing to the limits when I cant, but I will always choose Si instead. In daily life, I will always choose Si. You have always seemed the opposite to me in that regard. You don't seem to play around with Si that much and enjoy it in a minimal way. If you were LSI, I think you would be more...understanding and appreciative of Si if that makes sense? Especially when you mentioned on that chat one time about engaging in some Si stuff for a day.
You don't come across as a Ti dom to me. After watching @myresearch and @FreelancePoliceman interact on here and seeing their thought patterns, I cant see you as a Ti dom. You are obviously rational without a doubt. Just, the underlying thinking patterns and orientation towards Fe is different.
You are also more sensitive to Fi then an LSI and you wouldn't care about it as much if you were an LSI. In the sense, I think we are more vulnerable and aware of our POLR then we would like to admit. We lookout for that information more then we realize. I get that way with Te and can get overly rigid with it. You also seem to have a stronger distaste for Fi then Ne. Plus, you are very much Fe seeking. More so then SLE-Se. While you often Ni seek, even this post I would categorize this as Ni-seeking, you also need strong Fe approval of the group overall. Though, I think you are dual Ni seeking at the end of the day. I mean, you worship the wonderful @BandD lol
You hate Ne but you seem to be able to be a little more flexible in it then you realize. Therefore, not a POLR. You are able to recognize a lot more "possibility" then most SLE I know. You don't like it but you are at least aware. Plus, I think you would be living in a bunker right now with Ne POLR
We also get along pretty well. I know I tease but it is out of Fe care
That is my general perspective.
SLE
/thread
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
You make some great points, Ducki. Thanks for your valued response. I'd like to add a few things though:I agree with @BandD, I think you are SLE-Ti
I thought you were SLE-Se but, thinking about it more, I am pretty sure you are SLE-Ti. Most likely Dominate or Creative.
I can't see you as Gamma as you really dislike Fi. ALways going after that EII meat
You seem to have 4D Te and 3D Si in my opnion. Why? First, you get pissy at my grammar and spelling lol (im not offended
You don't seem to get very controlling in a Te way or get on the offensive when pushed to it. I can see that with Si. I also view ignoring as the "fantasy function" in terms, I 'fantasize" about Se stuff, like being a badass assassin or pushing to the limits when I cant, but I will always choose Si instead. In daily life, I will always choose Si. You have always seemed the opposite to me in that regard. You don't seem to play around with Si that much and enjoy it in a minimal way. If you were LSI, I think you would be more...understanding and appreciative of Si if that makes sense? Especially when you mentioned on that chat one time about engaging in some Si stuff for a day.
You don't come across as a Ti dom to me. After watching @myresearch and @FreelancePoliceman interact on here and seeing their thought patterns, I cant see you as a Ti dom. You are obviously rational without a doubt. Just, the underlying thinking patterns and orientation towards Fe is different.
You are also more sensitive to Fi then an LSI and you wouldn't care about it as much if you were an LSI. In the sense, I think we are more vulnerable and aware of our POLR then we would like to admit. We lookout for that information more then we realize. I get that way with Te and can get overly rigid with it. You also seem to have a stronger distaste for Fi then Ne. Plus, you are very much Fe seeking. More so then SLE-Se. While you often Ni seek, even this post I would categorize this as Ni-seeking, you also need strong Fe approval of the group overall. Though, I think you are dual Ni seeking at the end of the day. I mean, you worship the wonderful @BandD lol
You hate Ne but you seem to be able to be a little more flexible in it then you realize. Therefore, not a POLR. You are able to recognize a lot more "possibility" then most SLE I know. You don't like it but you are at least aware. Plus, I think you would be living in a bunker right now with Ne POLR
We also get along pretty well. I know I tease but it is out of Fe care
That is my general perspective.
1. I used to think I was Se sub, but I realised how I still yearn for organisation, rather than just flat out ploughing into things with attack. It's like the Se has a heavy tint of Ti, if that makes sense. It seems like Se is the main outer ring, focus and the interior is the Ti under the Se.
indexxx.png
If you look at the stucture of the Valued (blue) sections and the unvalued (orange) sections of the psyche, and 4D Se/4D Te being the ones with the most coverage, you can see how the average psyche in the SLE is -supposed- to manifest itself, based on value, coverage area and strength/usage. The Se sub would have even more and Te space used up and less Ti space, more than likely. It would have some of the Ti and Si sucked away. It would be more of an expansive type, imo. Also, imagine that Se has more area taken yup, too lazy to redraw that, but you get the idea.
2. Yeah, lol. My Dad's LIE and even his Fi annoys me. ESI-Fi are so annoying to me, tbh.
3. Yeah that's a general pet peeve of mine lol. I want to instruct you, yes. I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty in that aspect. I am a bit of a control freak, yeah, but I'm not gonna snap your neck if you don't accept my help. Mostly
4. Yeah, my LIE Dad can be a SUPER control freak at times lol. I think he is also Te subtype, but he has a healthy dose of Ni. His plans are a lot more long-term and detailed than mine will ever be. He's all about timing and I'm not lol. I think my love of food/creating recipes with a combination of similar ingredients i.e. pineapple yogurt porridge, strawberry bagels etc. is my Si coming out, and wanting to watch TV series/videos after my daily grind as well. I like to relax and be a lazy bastard, but I'd rather get things done first you know? xD
5. That is a reasonable point, but don't forget that they are both most likely LII. You have been observing your activity partners more than LSI (but tbf, we don't have many active LSi here do we?).
6. Yeah, I used to be called and think I was Ti PoLR because I wasn't being overly rational here about the theory, but I realised that it was me not understanding the theory enough due to being a lazy bastard and not studying it indepth enough, and not critically examining what I knew. But once i understood what Fi and Ti actuall were, I figured out the Fi i tried to force when I was "SEE" was stressing me out. And having watched some of the Vampire Diaries and this show Gang Related I'm watching now with BAndD, I've realised that ESI-Fi are blergh to me (not as bad as EII, though), especially when they have strong morals and senses of justice. I want to punch some logic into them, especially when they go on their won moral crusades. No. As for Fe group approval, I'm pretty much a lone wolf. I do enjoy the group's company at times, but I'm not really seeking their approval most of the time (this could be seen as a rare example I guess). And BAndD is pretty cool, ok?
7. That's interesting you say that. I've always thought of myself as a pretty rigid person, and joking aside about the Ne PoLR living in the bunker but I think that Ne is more hopeless in xSI, if that makes sense. It confuses and annoys them, with all the potential shooting out. As Ji is the antithesis to Pe, and vice versa, the differing energy sources and flows can cause a sort of meltdown in the circuitry after a while, if the currents are fighting against each other. They need a linear, direct current in order to survive.
8. Of course we get on well xD We would have to, after all the meat exchanges lol. Joking aside, interesting that you say that. Yeah, you can't get Ne from me, and I can't get Ni from you lol.
Do I activate you, bb?
It’s been a while since I have replied to this thread, and I have calmed down a lot. I’m also less depressed and more functional, and in a good rhythm so I am gonna use this questionnaire, because the other one was badly translated and made no sense. Here it is:
FOCUS ON YOUR FEELING PROCESS HERE
Your significant other just ended your 2 year relationship quite suddenly and with no apparent explanation. Up until this point you had both been talking about marriage and last week you even went to look at rings together. Now he/she won't even return your phone calls or texts. After talking with his/her family you find out that he/she has just been diagnosed with terminal stage 4 cancer.
- Describe how this scenario would make you feel as well as what sort of influences and motivations lie behind those feelings. Why do you feel the way you do?
I have no idea, but I think that I would try and make sense of things because I would be confused why this so called person who “loved” me wouldn’t tell me about their cancer. I’d think about the events leading up to it, and try to connect them to what was happening. What the cause of the break up was. What is the most likely reason.
I think that I would be confused because they just up and left me and didn’t tell me about the cancer. If they aren’t answering me or giving me a reasoning, then I will continue to be confused. I would want to know why they broke up with me, instead of telling me and I’d probably press for a bit until I got the answer.
The motivations behind this are the sudden break up. Why not tell me? I want to know the truth, and where we stand. I don’t like it when people suddenly leave me out of nowhere. I want to know the reasons why. I don’t usually know the reasons. I’m generally not very good at keeping relations in general or forming bonds.
- In this scenario what would you honestly say the primary focus of your feelings would be?
What does this question even mean? I think it’s poorly defined, unless you mean "am I focusing my feelings inward or outwardly to decipher the scenario?" I think that I’d be more inclined to focus on the outward reaction so that I can understand things better.
I’m not good at the whole ‘mind reading’ thing and understanding people’s intentions and true moral fibre and character all of the time. I tend to avoid people and analysing them for long periods of time.
I mean, I have opinions on things and occasionally would make comments that are considered "judgemental” to a point but aren’t really character judgments. I haven’t actually assessed the person to make one. It’s mostly just me making jokes about dumb things they wear, and say. It’s superficial and for a laugh.
SCENARIO 2
FOCUS ON YOUR FEELING PROCESS HERE
You are in college and this semester both you and your roommate end up in the same class together. You and your roommate get along fairly well and the living situation works but you aren't particularly close. You both typically do your own thing and are rather indifferent to each other. As the semester progresses you excel and become one of the top students in the class whereas your roommate is struggling significantly to grasp the material. The professor assigns a fairly challenging take home test that is a significant portion of your grade. He/she makes it clear that while it is open book, students are to work alone. Later your roommate comes to you begging for help after struggling with the test most of the weekend. You have already completed the assignment and he/she isn't asking to copy your answers, just to help tutor and mentor them as they struggle to complete the test, so there is no way your professor would ever know. However, this is the first time your room-mate has asked you for help this semester. He/she makes it clear that how they do on this test could mean the difference between passing and failing this class.
- How do you respond to your roommate’s request and why?
I would probably question them more and ask them why the needed the extra help, when everyone else can get on fine. I’d also ask them why they took on the class if they found it hard, and why they didn’t switch to something easier. I’d question them a bit, and poke them. It doesn’t make sense for someone to take a class that’s too challenging for them, or something that they’re lagging behind in. Especially if the end semester test is the difference between passing or failing.
If they gave me an excellent reason i.e. money concerns, the class is necessary for my degree etc, I might consider helping them, but if it’s a lame reason and they have been slacking, then I probably wouldn’t help them. I think that’s also stupid because they should have invested that time into studying and saved their partying for the next weekend.
- What sort of things in this scenario stand out to you as far as having a strong influence on your decision making and why?
I find it very suspicious that they’ve come to me after all this time looking for help. They have had all year to come to me, so why are they trying to take advantage of me at this late point?
- Describe the flow of your decision making process.
I’d also want to know what they were doing, and why they couldn’t understand it. What methods they were using etc. I mean, if someone as average as me can understand it and probably get most of the answers right, what are they doing? If it was course related, then why didn’t they figure out the course wasn’t for them before that? I want to make sense of it all, and why they are coming to me this late.
SCENARIO 3
FOCUS ON YOUR LOGIC AND THINKING PROCESS HERE
Your boss calls you into his/her office in order to assign you to a new project. He/she gives you a choice between two.
Project 1 is a rather broad, expansive project covering multiple areas of company operations. It has the potential to have a very significant impact on company operations but it would require a collective effort and an extensive amount of group work where you would be logically thinking through the project together with the group of individuals your boss has also assigned to it.
Project 2 has a much more specific and narrow focus and would require a significant amount of in depth individual analysis to work through the problem. You would be working alone and the completion of the project may or may not have much impact on company operations. However, after complete the process and problem you were working on will be streamlined and fundamentally understood.
- Which project appeals to you the most, as it relates to the way you prefer to logically process information? Why?
Project one because it has a point to it, logically speaking. Although I don’t always like working with people and having many ideas going at once, it makes sense to go for the group project if it actually did things and made an impact in the company. It would be worth the effort if everything was organised competently, and everyone knew their roles and what the end result was, and the kind of information they were researching etc, if the project was broken down properly and roles were delegated (that’s how I would do it anyway).
If I knew what I was doing, I could go off and work on that part alone, and analyse everything and work out what needs to be done and then come back the next day with everyone else and pies everything together so far. From past experiences, it works out smoother that way in terms of organisation and work flow.
- What sort of things in this scenario, across either project, stood out to you as having a strong influence on your decision? Why?
In terms of the effort - outcome ratio, it makes sense to pick that job as well. Why waste time on something that requires a lot of effort with little outcome, compared to task two? Doesn’t make sense at all. Project two sounds more like a hobby that is done in your spare time, rather than a full-scale project that a business would spend/waste resources on in comparison to project one. I would also be questioning what the sense of doing project two was on the overall business, specially if it was a more vague job that may/may not have an impact on the business and moving it forward.
Understanding things and figuring out how they work in order to solve a problem that doesn’t need solved, is vague, or is meaningless and doesn’t get you anywhere much is stupid. It’s a waste of energy as well. It’s better to focus your energy on things that need done because those have a point and need prioritised and maintained much more than the pointless ones to keep things running.
SCENARIO 4
FOCUS ON YOUR LOGIC AND THINKING PROCESS HERE
Your college professor has assigned you to a group project with 3 other individuals. All 3 of these individuals have a good strong work ethic and desire to contribute to the overall success of this project. You are at the first meeting of your group and the other members are tossing around valuable ideas as to the nature and direction of this project.
- Describe your behavior in this situation as you process and think about the ideas they are presenting.
If they are idea people, I would want to organise the ideas in order of relevancy to the project on the page. I would also want to eliminate the terrible ideas, and pick the best one (all in agreement of course). I think organising the ideas is important so that we all know what we are striving for, as his having an overall theme.
- Describe what major influences drive this behavior.
I am more of an organiser and an implementer than an ideas person, to be honest. I’m not very creative in that way. I like to refine things and organise them and make something new through editing. I am quite a remixer and a creator that way. Also, organising things ensures that we know what we’re doing and can keep the project going. It is also more efficient this way in terms of completing the project and not backtracking on it.
SCENARIO 5
FOCUS ON THE SOURCES YOU DRAW NON-PHYSICAL ENERGY FROM HERE
It has been a very long week and you feel mentally and emotionally drained, but good news! It is Saturday and you have nothing significant that needs to be done. You FINALLY have some free time to yourself to recharge your batteries and do whatever you want.
- Describe what sort of activities would help you to recharge. What would you enjoy doing after a long week and why?
I enjoy listening to music, mostly weird music that is different and doesn’t really always follow a complete structure, and I can just look at it and enjoy the crazy visuals. It’s my way of letting go, and refreshing my mind and not thinking for a while, after thinking about things and doing things. Lets me loosen up a bit too. I find listening to stuff like CA7RIEL, BBNO$, “Meme songs”, Arca, Conan Osiris, Mahmood and Sevdaliza are good for stuff like that. It also engages creativity in the loosen, ‘unconscious’ mind at times.
At times, I like to drink as well when I listen to music. It lets me get into it and focus on the madness more and not overanalyse things.
I like to watch TV shows and YT videos to unwind and relax for similar reasons. But sometimes I deliberately watch terrible shows to analyse and make fun of them, or videos of people analysing them and making fun of them. At the moment, I am doing that to Roswell, NM.
I like to also write stories and plan them in my free time. Unleash some pent up creativity whilst doing so.
- What sort of things do you feel you draw non-physical energy from doing?
All those things mentioned above that I don’t have to use much brain power on, or analyse much.
SCENARIO 6
FOCUS ON THINKING VS FEELING HERE
You have a meeting with your college career counsellor to discuss potential careers that interest you. He/she offers you a list of the following careers and asks you to pick your TOP 3. He/she asks you to take money out of the equation. Imagine all of these careers received equal compensation. Focus instead on where you would truly feel most happy and fulfilled.
Artist, Scientist, Actor, Engineer, Musician, Lawyer, Counsellor, Entrepreneur, Teacher, Manager, Psychologist, Computer Programmer, Analyst, Clergy, Child Care, Medical Doctor
- What were your top 3 choices and what aspects of these careers appeal to you?
To be honest, from what I have experienced and know, most career advisors aren’t that good at suggesting jobs, but for the sake of the hypothetical question, I will answer it. Alright, how much do they make? Will we say $100,000 each? (For arguments sake, ok). So now it’s up to what you find easiest for your current skillset and are competent enough at doing. Out of them all (in no particular order):
- Analyst
I enjoy analysing things, specially data and finding trends in things, believe it or not. I like organising and sorting it out too. I find it all very interesting. And yes, I split this one into two separate jobs because I would like to be a data analyst, and that has nothing to do with computer programming, per se.
- Musician
I actually tried this one as a course and got a qualification from it, and found out that I was very good at producing and composing music. I like to use DAWs and program beats in them and make music. I tried making a few full songs, and they need more work. I know quite a lot about how songs work, and are structured and I also know a bit about the industry. Also enjoyed researching and finding out about other music genres through it too.
- Scientist
I like the researching and problem solving aspect of science, and discovering things. And making hypothesis and measuring things. Experiments seem cool as well. Also like the data aspect and reading papers as well.
- Was it difficult or easy to pick only 3 and why?
It was easy because most of the jobs there are generic and not well thought out for questions like these (introverted/extroverted thinking, feeling). You could have went and picked two jobs each based on groups (NF, SF, ST, NT) to make it more balanced and give a better scope of types but anyway, it was easy for me to eliminate the jobs that involved caring about people and being around them too (child care, counsellor, teacher, actor, psychology and clergy) because I’m not good at that sort of thing. Those tap into my weaknesses, and I tend to get very tired dealing with people after a short period of time.
Being a lawyer and entrepreneur would be alright, but putting in the long hours would take a lot of investment and grunt work to get the businesses off the ground. There is a lot to learn and memorise for those jobs. Managing and delegating things would also be alright, but I think I’d need a bit of experience for that job.
Being an artist and a doctor would be alright too but I’d run out of ideas for the artist for concept pieces very fast. I’m not amazing at sculpting or drawing though. Being a doctor would also take a lot of memorising and knowing what to do in a crisis and under pressure (not good at that). You also have to help people and try to save them.
- Prioritise the aspects of your career choices that influenced your decision, what things mattered most to you, where do you imagine finding the most fulfilment and why?
Out of them all? I think that I would have to go with being a Musician because I have the most experience in that field already, and because it satisfies my programming, analysing and problem solving skills in the form of making music.
SCENARIO 7
Click on the image below and pay close attention to the things that jump out to you, objects, thoughts, feelings, impressions, ideas etc. What do you see?
- Describe the main things that stand out to you in this picture.
The canyons and the contrast between the darkness and the light of the caves and the sunlight.
- Why do you think/feel you focused on those things?
Because of the contrast between the darkness of the night.
- Describe the strength with which this photo did or did not appeal to you and why?
It’s just a photo I was made to look at, I don’t care for it.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
Fe < Te
SEE is obvious
You're SEE. Accept it and embrace this new chapter in your life.
Care to read the whole thread, and not take one quote out of context and answer things seriously?
Also, it's Te > Fe, which would technically still be correct for SLE because their Te is 4d, but unvalued yes. Fe is 2D but valued. In terms of functional strength, that still stands as a point. If you mean terms of valued functions (which btw, you didn't specify) then that is a different story.
Lies, expand the analysis.
Outside of the meme "DEAD = SEE", I would like to hear how you came to that conclusion. I am curious, Bud. Not saying you are wrong.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
nah
Te > Fe = Fe < Te mr Ti polr
SLE.
Moving this post to DMs, too personal to you for public probably.
Btw, sorry for the Fi-PoLR post. Lol if you're going to get type feedback though, that's all I can offer.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 10-29-2021 at 05:37 PM.
Nonverbal behavior is objective "evidence". Then it's mainly interpreted by N, and not by T as is mainly with common behavior and words. N is one of 4 equally important mind functions to deal with the reality.
Typing by intuitive impressions from nonverbal behavior (VI) is one of methods existing in Augustinavichiute's texts. She described such traits of types. Intuitive feeling of types traits is popular approach. Initial info about VI.
It's not against normal psychology that personality traits can be expressed in nonverbal behavior specifics same as in common behavior specifics. Unlike with physiognomics VI which uses static body traits, what is much doubtful.
That intuitive impressions from nonverbal behavior is working typing method was objectively proved in my experiment of 2015. It gave real typing matches (by random typers on random youtube bloggers) comparable to IRL interview and much higher than accidental (~17% > 6%).
So "NOT a valid" is your supposing results of this method as not meaningful.
In case you want be typed - make a video, so your nonverbal could be seen.
Besides lack of a part of important data, those who know types theory may semi-intentionally (having wishes to have some types, for example to fit better an occupation or better IR with someone) significantly falsificate such data what reduces the chance for correct type. These 2 reasons together make typing of not well-known personally people by Internet without video as not reasonable practice. Sometimes photos are good enough too, mainly when those are many.
I suppose you want to get some concrete types:
"the fact that I am a Beta ST"
Fact is objectivity. There are no known objective traits to say 100% about some types. There are only probabilities based on _more common_ behavior of some types.
To control your nonverbal behavior is much harder, unlike with what you say. So you may try to mislead by words to get wished types and more fail to get wished opinions by VI. Probably unwished types goten by VI predisposes you to reject VI without good rational reasons.
If you don't want to give normal data for your typing, what is videointerview. Then it's better to identify your type yourself.
T types tend to do so after initial geting of opinions about own types and then reading theory themselves. Typing is T region, - where they are assured.
It's more F types problem to ask about own types for too long, to trust too high some typer without objective reasons (when knowing about low typing matches and no objective proof of skills), to doubt in own types for years instead of noticing the needed data to understand the type, to reject some methods without adequate reasons, etc not so reasonable activity.
What you do is doubtful for T types. And seems you want get such opinions by irrational reasons and so hide important typing info about yourself. Or mb placed a video/photos in the past and now just want to get other types by more controlling ways from your side.
Objectivity is not what you follow or mb want.
This mere affirmation is interesting by itself.
It shows a strong needs to have something that is solid or maybe explanable in words which is to me a indication that you could be SLE over LSI.
The LSI's introverted axis Ti-Ni is more encline to accept "vibes" things than the SLE's extraverted axis Se-Fe, a suggestive Ni could repress "vibes" and argument based about intuition. Besides, you ask others their opinion which could be a proof that you have a better Fe than a LSI who doesn't like ask others for advices or help.
Last edited by Nicozeyo; 02-16-2022 at 05:50 PM. Reason: Grammar
The problem is that people relying on 'vibes' and 'relations' alone too much kinda corrupts the overall theory's purpose and function in a sense if we are going by the elements and the systematic information as a whole. Yes, vibes might be helpful in some circumstances [if it's obvious that someone is X type, but I think that you need to go deeper than that. It's an amalgamation of factors, and not just a 'fart in the wind' guessing situation based on how someone makes you 'feel' when you interact with them.
I think you clicked onto Rebel 'cause he's LII (afaik, right?) His Ti gave you a sort of clarity that made sense to you and it was seen as being especially 'clever' in your eyes because you were looking for that clarity. Socionics is and can be simple to work out in terms of the system if you take time and break each individual element down. Applying it to reality? Yeah, that's a whole different story. It's usually not as successful all the time. Observations can definitely help to a degree, but they themselves are not definite, as experiences tend to vary. Yeah, you can get a general idea/consensus of observations but even then, there are discrepancies due to socionics being so subjective in itself.
Yeah, I want things to make sense and I will search and dissect them in order for them to make sense, in terms of reality especially. I want to understand why things are the way they are and apply practicality and realism to them.
Yeah, vibes are too ethereal and not grounded and a good enough reason for me to accept, IMO.
Well, even people who are LSI ask for help on their type, so I don't think alone is a good way to define it, but I guess an LSI would be more confident in their base logic (Ti) than creative/HA logic (3D and 2D Ti), and putting an onus on it being accurate.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
I don't have time to reply properly atm but I do relate to some of your comments. Socionics really needs to be studied at universities and made more academic or scientific for it to be more easily and readily applied to real life. It needs to be made more simple first of all...and once there is a more solid theory of the basic structures then it would be possible to branch off and study endless different aspects...it's messy atm. It was too messy for me. It just wasn't sitting right with me. It seemed like it was trying to say far too much about each different type. It also seemed divisive- boxing people into a type. Like you say, it seemed too subjective. I didn't like the moralising/ reductive overtone- I don't want to be told who I am, who I can be, who I will be. Socionics/ a theory can't possibly predict all of that.
Yes, Rebel was LII. I don't know what drew me to his comments at first. But I'm not the only one, he got many likes and comments. His articles are on socionics.com too and not many articles get accepted on there. I don't know who the site was set up by though. I think his job as an engineer gave him a good foundational knowledge for coming up with an alternative system to analyse behaviour of the the 16 different personalities and identify the types of relationships between them. (I can't rememeber what type of engineer but I know he observed people as part of his work). His main goal on the forum was to promote a more scientific approach to socionics. He also just seemed like a generally wise person, with a lot of general life experience to draw upon in making his observations- quite balanced even though he considered himself a stong Ti subtype and he thinks that a subtype causes a person issues..but that subytpe isn't necessarily fixed.
He helped me a lot. By reading his comments I feel like I have a very good baseline understanding of socionics. I don't think you can get that from reading socionics articles (I haven't read loads but I have read Gulenko's book, or parts of it and it is good but Rebel is better). Well, maybe you can but you'd need to read a lot. There are some people on here who seem to be comfortable with their understanding of socionics and I do think once you learn to type it gets a bit easier, because eventually your brain sees types (or doesn't see them when you're not sure of a type) and then you subconsciously make your own notes about what each type is like.
Socionics was far too overwhelming for me at first, a person with historical mental health problems. Rebel was a kind and clever guy who I think probably provided many people on the forum with a lot of much needed clarity. He also helped me a lot with my personal problems which is nothing short of a miracle in my eyes. Anyway, he seems to be gone now but thank you to him anyway.
edit: At first I found his comments a little difficult to digest..also his obervations can seem a little contradictory sometimes..in general..or contradictory to socionics ideas. But I realised he simply sees a lot of different sides to people, and his mind is able to separate the various contraditions that make up a person/ a type.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 02-16-2022 at 09:58 PM.
Yeah, and it also needs to be assessed and confirmed as an actual scientific tool as well, if it has any actual real-world benefits that will help further things. The problem is that people can't and won't agree fully on what defines Socionics IMEs, and which system is actually the closest to something that can be claimed and used as a science. The boxing isn't a problem, the problem is 'is the box accurate?' 'Does this functionality closest fit to X or Y?' etc.
Inaccurate boxing is as bad as not boxing yourself in at all. It's not that I don't want to find my type, but I am just finding large discrepancies between the supposed type I get labelled as the most (SEE) and how I actually use the functions and what those functions mean, and how well I can use them, after some research.
Basing it all on vibes and how people 'act' just as bad as not looking at the definitions, and how each type is supposed to metabolize energy, according to and within the system. To me, it's mostly based upon IMEs, but yeah, there are some clues as to how people process IMEs through how they act, but it's not always accurate. Some people who have mental disorders etc are going to act differently and process the same functions in a manner that's different from someone who is totally healthy. And basing it off just the healthy people isn't gonna give us a full scope. We need both scopes assessed for more accuracy. More examples and test subjects.
I know that will take a lot of time and a lot of tests will need to be done, but I think that might help Socionics become more credible in a way.
Yeah, being an engineer would help with systematic knowledge. And Socionics.com? I don't know about Rebel's contributions on there, but IMO, that site in general is a dumpster fire. It doesn't seem to be very reliable (or it's badly translated or something) in terms of the content in general. It's like some of the things I am reading generally contradicts things that I have read about before from other sources. How do we know who is exactly right, unless we actually investigate enough?Yes, Rebel was LII. I don't know what drew me to his comments at first. But I'm not the only one, he got many likes and comments. His articles are on socionics.com too and not many articles get accepted on there. I don't know who the site was set up by though. I think his job as an engineer gave him a good foundational knowledge for coming up with an alternative system to analyse behaviour of the the 16 different personalities and identify the types of relationships between them. (I can't rememeber what type of engineer but I know he observed people as part of his work). His main goal on the forum was to promote a more scientific approach to socionics. He also just seemed like a generally wise person, with a lot of general life experience to draw upon in making his observations- quite balanced even though he considered himself a stong Ti subtype and he thinks that a subtype causes a person issues..but that subytpe isn't necessarily fixed.
He helped me a lot. By reading his comments I feel like I have a very good baseline understanding of socionics. I don't think you can get that from reading socionics articles (I haven't read loads but I have read Gulenko's book, or parts of it and it is good but Rebel is better). Well, maybe you can but you'd need to read a lot. There are some people on here who seem to be comfortable with their understanding of socionics and I do think once you learn to type it gets a bit easier, because eventually your brain sees types (or doesn't see them when you're not sure of a type) and then you subconsciously make your own notes about what each type is like.
It's good that he contributes to things and in making socionics more like a science than just a bunch of ideas and a theory that doesn't translate fully to reality. It's good also that you have a more refined understanding of socionics through him, and Rebel helps you make sense of socionics. Assuming that your type is correct, I agree that it all tends to fall in place easier. The problem is when the interpretations start to a) not make sense b) contradict other ones too much/the system itself.
Observations are all about how you explain and organize them with regard to the system. LII Ti would be more inclined to see the 'different sides' over LSI Ti, I think.Socionics was far too overwhelming for me at first, a person with historical mental health problems. Rebel was a kind and clever guy who I think probably provided many people on the forum with a lot of much needed clarity. He also helped me a lot with my personal problems which is nothing short of a miracle in my eyes. Anyway, he seems to be gone now but thank you to him anyway.
edit: At first I found his comments a little difficult to digest..also his obervations can seem a little contradictory sometimes..in general..or contradictory to socionics ideas. But I realised he simply sees a lot of different sides to people, and his mind is able to separate the various contradictions that make up a person/ a type.
I'm not asking to be typed in another system that's not related to Socionics. I don't think that applying vibes is going to help in any way. Vibes are not the foundation of how people function. Yes, they may give some minor hints, but they don't really measure things well enough to tell us for certain that X is X and Y is Y. They can eliminate certain things, but I wouldn't them at all for accuracy and indefinite
Alright, so if a type (e.g. ESE, say) has been stereotyped to death because they have a wide smile or certain energy or whatever, how can you let go of the stereotypes when Vultology is basically an amalgamation of visual stereotypes put together to type people based upon how the act/look?
I still am none the wiser to how a picture of oneself can tell how a person measures logic, ethics, sensation, and intuition. Facial traits are not functions, and they are not showing the functions in use. I don't know how the hell you can tell that the generated picture I made on Artbreeder is a SEE soc-blind, lmfao.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
I can tell because I memorize visual cues from types and apply them. So when I look at a picture I reference 3 different celebrities that have a similar type. People look like their type, because after decades of posture and facial expressions, the face gets affected by it.
ترفرف كالأجنحة غير المنظورة حول رأسي
And these people have no physical features that are common with your picture. One of them is of a different ethnicity. But the same pointed look, the same posture etc. after years you pick it up easily
ترفرف كالأجنحة غير المنظورة حول رأسي
@DEAD try the website cognitive type. Although I’d admit it’s not MBTI anymore. It’s not Socionics either. But it’s a good starting point
some signals are dead on, some imo I had to think twice about. I’d finally go by vibes, after applying visual typing, because it doesn’t suit their lifestyle etc.
then there’s the argument that certain types gained their stereotypes after a lot of mistyping, therefore typing visually is better so that you can let go of these stereotypes. I think thats true but only to a certain extent, and I only trust myself to give a better judgment : P so how much you trust yourself to type yourself correctly also plays a role
ترفرف كالأجنحة غير المنظورة حول رأسي
If that’s you in the profile picture you look SEE soc-blind btw
ترفرف كالأجنحة غير المنظورة حول رأسي
@DEAD I’m not here to convince you maybe chill a little?
ترفرف كالأجنحة غير المنظورة حول رأسي
>because you typed them isn’t a good answer
its good enough for me, a Ti user, who only cares about things making sense to me
>it needs to be consistent and make sense
oh? To who, exactly? Please stop trying to force Te on me. It doesn’t have to make sense to anyone but myself. As I said, you clearly value Te.
>You can make up any bullshit you want and expect us to go along with it making sense. People are gonna ask questions, and expect you to answer them and make sense.
no ._. I’m not expecting anyone to get along with it. You put that expectation on yourself. If it doesn’t make sense to you, leave it.
>I can argue that you being LSI 7w8 is a contradiction in on itself because the main traits of enneagram 7 (according to the Enneagram Institute) do not match Ti in socionics as base function
please let’s not bring my type into this. I’m really not bothered. If it makes sense to me then I don’t care if it’s logically inconsistent to others.
>If Socionics is going to be more legit, it needs more universal definition, and by giving it more universal definition, Scienists can assess it and make a mainstream, more credible unit of assessment for measuring personality.
>Individual subjectivity of definitions will never give Socionics full credibility as a “science”; if people want that, fair enough but if they do, we’re all going to have to look at and redefine objectively what Socionics is.
This. This is it. No one who values Ti over Te would say this. Even EIEs have trouble with this, and they care a lot about appearing objective. You sound SEE, take it or leave it. I’m not going to continue this conversation because it’s not doing anything to my Ti, and tbh you sound pretty Ti PoLR
ترفرف كالأجنحة غير المنظورة حول رأسي
Posting Permissions
