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Thread: Sugar daddy/ sugar baby relationships

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    Default Sugar daddy/ sugar baby relationships

    Don’t judge me, but my sister and I are currently arguing over this.

    If one wanted to pursue a sugar relationship which socionic relationship would be conducive to that? Other than duality, obviously?

    A sugar relationship involves the exchange of money and gifts for companionship and all that comes with a regular relationship.

    My sister thinks that a beneficiary or supervisee would make the best sugar daddy to her and I believe it is recipe for disaster.

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    Te doms seem to be most likely targets for sugar babies. Is a sugar daddy(mommy) / sugar baby relationship really that different from LxE/ExI duality?

    I guess SLEs and LSIs would be good targets too because their duals are often useless at making money lmao.

    I don't know if there is a specific intertype relation that would be better or worse for this dynamic.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    You'd think that the arrangement would work best between high-dimension Te and high dimension Fi types, but I think it won't really last long. One or the other will eventually think they are getting the short end of the stick.

    Yes, I agree that it would be a formula for a disastrous relationship.

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    Feels like a sugar coated version of being a prostitute really. At that point I'd rather go all the way and have sex with more people for more money and go all out - sugar daddy/mommaism seems like prostitution in the Fi way. For me- it wouldn't feel like a relationship, and would just feel more like an explotation-ship.

    I don't judge what anybody else does though or at least I try not to. I accept what's wrong for me might be right for somebody else- and I expect the same courtsey/respect in return.

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    Baby: EIE , and maybe SEE, SLE and ESI.
    Daddy: anyone who rich enough...

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    I want to be a sugar baby
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    I also have seen generally SxE and xIE types say such things, some actually did it and some did the opposite though. One LSI friend also said she is open to it, she had a very long relationship with someone who was very behind her in terms of financial stance. However, after that relationship, she cared about her partner's resources.

    Hence, when people say such things, I also check whether they do it or not. Some find it ok or good as an idea but do the opposite.

    For me, it sounds too transactional and plus I would feel like I gave my control to the other person. If I find this kind of a thing ok someday, I prefer to become a sex worker rather than this, since that way I would be directly in charge of the money.

    I feel like I am selling some pieces of my soul at work. I want to keep some of it to myself.

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    My IEI hairdresser was cutting the hair of an old female battle-axe (possibly SLE, possibly LSE) and after she left, he went on and on about how rich and famous she was. He clearly saw the “rich and famous” before he saw the “old and ugly and looks like a man” part.
    I said something to him about what it would be like to be supported by a woman like that, and he gushed “Yes! Who wouldn’t like to be financially supported?”
    To be charitable, he styled women’s hair all day long and was used to looking past the surface to find their inner beauty.
    To be candid, I got the impression that if he were supported by a rich woman who looked like she fought in the Battle of Stalingrad, that he wouldn’t be faithful to her.
    Just my impression.


    I’m embarrassed to say that I’d be fine with financially supporting an ESI if she were the right person. I did that with my ex-wife for a few years during our marriage. My willingness to do that depends strongly on whether she can and wants to work, and if the support is helping to achieve a mutual goal.

    But @MrInternet42069 is also right. I have the weakness that I am easily emotionally manipulated.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-15-2021 at 12:04 PM.

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    There're many long-lasting relationships where one partner's participation is nothing more than a business venture; both partners thinking that way seems rare. Usually, the "business partner" occupies the driver's seat in such a relationship and is the most likely to end it when s/he has gotten what s/he wants. I haven't noticed any type prevalence in these relationships.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Does being a sugar baby require you to have sex with the sugar daddy? lol
    Chronic "grass is always greener" syndrome




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    Quote Originally Posted by fatgurl View Post
    Does being a sugar baby require you to have sex with the sugar daddy? lol

    Sex, and a whole lot of other things that you never imagined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Sex, and a whole lot of other things that you never imagined.
    Chronic "grass is always greener" syndrome




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    A friend of a friend is a sugar baby. She is a stripper and her boyfriend even bought her a house. He tried to propose to her but she won’t accept until he gets her a Mercedes. I could never but, low key I am impressed.

    I think Benefit relations have the opportunity for that kind of dynamic. I agree with the following types on here in regards to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    A friend of a friend is a sugar baby. She is a stripper and her boyfriend even bought her a house. He tried to propose to her but she won’t accept until he gets her a Mercedes. I could never but, low key I am impressed.

    I think Benefit relations have the opportunity for that kind of dynamic. I agree with the following types on here in regards to that.
    Dayyyuum

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    I guess my fiancee is kind of a sugar momma now that I think about it. She is older than me, makes more than I do, has supported me for a long time, and pretty much pays all the bills by herself (she takes money from my bank account too).
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    I guess my fiancee is kind of a sugar momma now that I think about it. She is older than me, makes more than I do, has supported me for a long time, and pretty much pays all the bills by herself (she takes money from my bank account too).

    You must be pretty great in bed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    I guess my fiancee is kind of a sugar momma now that I think about it. She is older than me, makes more than I do, has supported me for a long time, and pretty much pays all the bills by herself (she takes money from my bank account too).

    I know a male EIE who met and married an LSI female who basically supported him. They seemed pretty happy together, until he cheated on her with his HS GF and let her find out about it.

    Maybe he was testing her love, maybe he was bored and needed an Fe challenge, IDK, but she kicked him out of their house and said she's done with him. That was two years ago. He thinks he's getting back in. I know some LSIs, and I have serious doubts. I think he completely misjudged her.

    You really should never, ever lie to an LSI. And cheating? Well, just don't do it.

    For insight into a female LSI's character, watch the movie RAN. The female protagonist is LSI.

    https://i.imgur.com/87jo7ix.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    You really should never, ever lie to an LSI. And cheating? Well, just don't do it.

    Yeah there's a very fine line with LSIs. Once you cross it, there's no going back.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatgurl View Post
    Does being a sugar baby require you to have sex with the sugar daddy? lol
    These girls don't.


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    I get that it might be empowering, but monetizing sex / romance damages people's ability to have long-term relationships. Or maybe I'm just getting old (but not old enough to be a sugar daddy, heh).

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I get that it might be empowering, but monetizing sex / romance damages people's ability to have long-term relationships. Or maybe I'm just getting old (but not old enough to be a sugar daddy, heh).
    if one goes through the cynicism gateway, most of the pain is in the passage at first... on the other end "the dark side" is fun, because the mocking and destroying of ideals one once held dear feels liberating... the emptiness when it stretches long enough will lead one towards an exit again, and if they still are alive enough there should be enough juice left for a rebirth, as though all the black around one's heart can be shed just like that! as though it was only loosely held, a slimy coating that can always slip right off. or, even if one has forgotten themselves, they can heal about it cathartic-ly later as years of wasted drama (even if the drama was more self-numbing but within a context of self-destruction) always feel worth it when they lead to a shattering realization about why one did this to themselves.

    but through the cynicism gateway, relationships are just games anyway, painful games. so probably a "business arrangement" is preemptive pain management.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    I guess my fiancee is kind of a sugar momma now that I think about it. She is older than me, makes more than I do, has supported me for a long time, and pretty much pays all the bills by herself (she takes money from my bank account too).
    kinda same here. My husband makes all the money. But I take care of the kids 24/7 and do all the laundry and dishes. He’s never done chores before, or even changed a diaper or gut up at night with them..I do them all. So I guess we have a bit of an understanding lol. He says I’m a crappy housekeeper and cook, but I’m a great mom. But we try not to eat in our house, so it works out. and I try not to be a slob

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    These girls don't.

    Interesting channel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    Interesting channel
    It's not mine, in case that's what you're wondering. (:

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    The asymmetry relationships. The relationship where men carry women in their arms and put them onto a pedestal is supervision and on rarer occasions the benefit. The women eventually become dissatisfied, and if these relations struck on purpose there are plenty of negatives to come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    I want to be a sugar baby
    I genuinely considered it until someone mentioned that once you monetize a relationship it's hard to go back to doing normal relationships without expecting some sort of end to it.

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    I think which relationship works better might depend on whether you're dealing with rational or irrational types. I don't think beneficiary or supervisee relationships play out the same way for rationals as they do for irrationals, but I suspect just based on my own experience that this would work more easily for irrational types
    “Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
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    Most of me thinks I wouldn't do it... but if I did I'd just go full femboi and find a rich SLE or LIE man to satisfy in exchange for money and drugs. Honestly I could probably even handle an LSE in this type of relationship since it doesn't have to be deep or "real". I think I could do that for awhile as long as he treated me okay
    “Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
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    If your main reason is not to get financially supported, lavished or if your main method to get that person is not financial, then you are not a sugar baby, mommy, daddy. When it is like that and when sugar mommy/daddy is very loaded, it generally causes some power dynamic issues if anybody is considering, ofcourse everyone can choose their own poison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWellArmedCat View Post
    I think which relationship works better might depend on whether you're dealing with rational or irrational types. I don't think beneficiary or supervisee relationships play out the same way for rationals as they do for irrationals, but I suspect just based on my own experience that this would work more easily for irrational types
    can you explain more please

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    I thought this one was an IEI meme. Oh, wait golddigger ≠ sugarbaby.

    Sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    I genuinely considered it until someone mentioned that once you monetize a relationship it's hard to go back to doing normal relationships without expecting some sort of end to it.

    I agree with this. I feel like I would get into a relationship and think that I know what I'm getting into and then get mad that they don't really love me and just see me as a piece of meat lol.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by calm View Post
    can you explain more please
    Lol well I attempted to explain my reasoning several times, and realized I didn't have much of a case. I was mostly just thinking of my relations with LIEs and how I think that could work out quite well, and I'm afraid I overgeneralized. It probably just depends on the specific types being looked at. I think a supervision sugar daddy/baby relationship could work fine between LIE and IEI because the LIE can easily handle the Te aspects of life for the IEI while still being comfortably Ni-valuing
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    There's something about the transactional nature of this relationship that makes me sick, but I can't really argue why.

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    Marx would say that this relationship, by turning intimacy into a commodity that can be exchanged for material rewards is a form of reification, i.e. both the sugar daddy and the sugar baby become mere 'objects', which produce 'intimacy services' or 'material support'; these services become the focus point of the relationship, it's a business transaction. This of course can only lead to alienation, as both people are not seen or see themselves for who they are, but only what they can give. Alienation is the opposite of love.

    In Marxist theory, objectification refers to the reversal of the relationship of people producing for one another in a division of labor into an objectified (reified) relationship of commodities to one another. Under capitalist production relations, the products of labor take on the form of commodities, money, and capital, and as such become independent of their actual producers. This process is also called alienation of the producer from the product and of the producers from each other.
    EDIT: the temptation to bring up Marx was too strong, couldn't help myself lol but I think in substance he is saying about the same thing as the people in this thread.
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 09-17-2021 at 09:38 AM.

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    I've watched interviews with former sex workers, but there isn't a consensus on whether or not it's a good thing. Some were completely traumatized by it, whereas others found it empowering. I really have no idea what to think about about it, especially as a man (whose understanding of women's real feelings is entirely theoretical).

    I'll say this, though: the glorification of sex work might be problematic. For a naive teenager, is eighteen really the best age to make life-altering decisions?

    Sex-negative feminists say that it opens the door to sexual abuse and trafficking. Marxist feminists sometimes add that it commodifies the woman's body, which is in itself a form of violence. But I suspect that the objection is deeper and more visceral. I seriously believe that most women recoil in horror at the idea of selling your body — to the point that sex producers and consumers (and maybe the sex workers as well) seem like subhuman mega-creeps to them — and that even liberal, sex positive feminists (the type that are currently in control of academia) secretly hate it, and only support it because it lines up with liberal dogma WRT. bodily autonomy.
    Last edited by xerx; 09-26-2021 at 07:56 AM. Reason: ...

  38. #38
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    According to this, young women, especially feminist women, are turning away from sex-positivity, mostly as a reaction to hookup culture and extreme porn: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/24/o...-feminism.html. Seems interesting if true.
    Last edited by xerx; 09-26-2021 at 08:04 AM.

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    I've watched interviews with former sex workers, but there isn't a consensus on whether or not it's a good thing. Some were completely traumatized by it, whereas others found it empowering.
    Yeah no shit - and everything in life is like that. A lot of non-sexual things people said would be good for me were nothing but traumatizing to me as well. They were just perhaps good for *them* but they didn't have the empathy to see outside of their own perspective. And I don't fully blame them- because that is actually not that easy to do.

    In the end I think it's good if people keep their nose out of other people's business [see the funny lady in my avatar] as long as they aren't doing anything illegal or non-consensual. I also don't think it's wise to mix 'sex positivity' with actual sex work or monetizing sexuality. One implies you are having great sex with people you consent with while the other you are doing it for money which is more likely to turn into something immoral or soulless to me. 'The love of money is the root of all evil' after all. I do agree that for a lot of people it has a tendency to not be a good thing but at the same time, being jealous that another person had an enjoyable orgasm with somebody they were attracted to and you didn't (and falsely claiming it's 'sexual abuse' just because you are jelly) is just being immature.

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    If I was attractive I'd def consider. When all the doors are open why prematurely shut?

    When none are open one clings.

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