Adventures in Dating

[Braingel]

Though I'm not religious, I observed that the best way and probably the only way, to get rid of one's loneliness, is to devote to something bigger than oneself. In the process one also needs to be careful of not getting trapped by mobilizing function's inflated ego, and learn to be no longer afraid of one's suggestive function.


I read that 50 Cent mentioning while expanding his business into different fields, he has a dream of "making philanthropy cool again". Not sure how he actually does it, but at least at the idea level, it's a great example of how an LIE transforms himself with his suggestive Fi.




I'm not a classicalist and only judge people/systems by how accurate their typings are. For you, it's better to decide the typing yourself. I've put IEI and EII examples in the corresponding beta and delta threads.




Si types are best at making others (at least Ne-Si types) feel comfortable. However, I think duals would do more than making you feel comfortable. People are only ready for their duals at certain life stages.


Example: In Haruki Murakami's novel “Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage”, LSE Sara encouraged EII Tsukuru to stop avoiding/escaping from his traumatic past and go on a trip of self discovery/confronting the past.

Oh, I have already decided what I am, I was just curious if you’d agree with myself as an eii, as it’s been scrutinized by most who base too much on western socionics, where I am iei because of how the definitions change.. I will look at the exemplars later to see what you’d likely think of myself.. Not looking to base my typing on how others receive me, more, I am a curious social image core who concerns around how others see her, to just know, rather than actually base it as who I am.

Was primarily curious because you seem MBTI factoring in, so you’d probably be more likely see me as Fi-Ne.

[Braingel]

(If I based my typing based on how others saw me, it would be eie, what most have typed me as, out of a model G stereotype, though it even happened with Model A people, prior to a few people meeting me irl, who eventually landed on iei for myself. I always typed myself eii, and later on iei after I realized how behavioral socio works).

[Lord Pixel]

@necrosebud, I run into guys who fit that description all the time. They really are middle-managers in all kinds of industries, and they don't display the hard-assed attitudes of the LSE-D types.

If you know that that's the kind of guy you like, then you are ahead of 99% of most people.

Go get your car serviced or repaired at a dealership. Not an independent, since independents are less likely to attract Deltas. The service manager is likely to be an LSE-H. Either that, or an SLI-Te, and you can easily tell the difference. SLIs want to be "appreciated", and LSEs want to be "respected".

If in doubt and you think he might be SLI, tell the guy that you appreciate his help and see if he goes pear-shaped inside from getting his fondest desire fulfilled from an IEE.

Or tell him that you have a lot of respect for guys who do what he's doing, and see if the LSE starts glowing from getting what he most wants from an EII.

Another way to tell them apart is that SLIs have 4D Si and are generally graceful, like baseball players or golfers. LSEs have 4D Te and are more coarse-looking and "square".

You can also find both types in grocery stores or in hardware stores or in building supply stores or in Home Depot-type stores. Anywhere that a middle manager can be found giving people advice on what they should do.

This is funny because my friend is an LSE-H and works at a dealership lol. He's not a manager tho, but the company has convinced him to do BBQs for his coworkers.

LSE H is very very different from LSE D I've noticed. Easy to mistype as ESE for sure.

[Lord Pixel]

Fe is about moods

Boundaries is Fi thing , given that Fi is about emotional distance and connections between people, including realizing the right distance in a relationship between two people

Yea makes sense then.

[Lord Pixel]

but how would someone like this even find an Fi lead attractive then, is my question

we are very "feeling" oriented and apparently some Te leads look down on it or something, not that I am personally averse to Te, I have had enough of it from my family growing up so I am very open to it. Just hasn't really been ... directed at me with the sensing piece though aside from SLIs. So I can personally find SOME not all LSEs too quick to jump to a negative conclusion, general conservatism or what comes across as being... closed off


lol is this supposed to represent part of the essence contrasted with the Te sub quote you mentioned above haha

I would think to a degree all weak Fi, esp 1D struggle with Fi tho


I don't think I get the bolded

I once had a boss who was LSE Te-D, and looking back I see that he had an aggressive way for seeking Fi which was, every time he came to the office the first thing he'd do is go on a huge rant, everyone listened because they were paid to not because they gave a shit, someone who gave a shit would have been appreciated. It seemed he had a hard way of looking for a sympathetic ear, which if it came from anybody, it certainly would be from someone with a load of Fi fondness for the guy.

I also listened to an audiobook by Mel Robbins who seems very LSE, and at the end of the book this hard no bullshit woman was in tears recalling how some kid in her family sat and listened to her problems "Like I was human.", like, that was a huge memory for her that it made her cry.

I've also seen in an LSE facebook group where an LSE talked about how they showed a picture of their carrot cupcakes to their EII friend and the EII was like "Ew." and this distressed the LSE, they were like "Has she lost her empathy?". I was shocked LSE even cared.

But yea I still struggle to see what LSE gets outta the deal lol, tho it's very easy to see the value of Te. But if I had to guess maybe it's just someone helping them sort out their feelings and letting them know it's perfectly fine to feel that way and that you're not incompetent or whatever if you do? Idk man lol. Like that human comment from Mel Robbins was very eye opening.

But I think romance styles is way more clear on the pull the types have on each other. Like all the IEs have utility to the dual, but romance styles shows what is attractive to them.

[Lord Pixel]

Dude, @fiorale is correct about this. All of the female ESIs I've ever met want to demonstrate their competence and superior strength and beauty, compared to other women. I don't get that from, say, EIIs or SEIs or IEIs or SLIs.

You need to get out there and do some experiments.



IME, ESIs do want to listen to facts. They don't want to be told what to do, and they don't want external interpretations of those facts, but they do want facts.

Now, 8 hours is a long time, but a lot of my dates with ESIs have lasted longer than that, and while we don't talk about facts the whole time, I do talk about facts, and they don't seem to get tired of listening.

Funny, my ESI ex would brag about how she was the fastest runner at school and even wanted to race me. Bruh, I have never had a gf that wanted to race me looool.

I would go beyond just facts, Te also provides facts that are effective solutions to problems. I've seen that all over my life as far as how Te has impacted me. Information that you can USE rather than info for info sake like Ti, which, if I don't care or ain't interested enough, falls on deaf ears. Mobius strip, the numbers after 3.14, how to make poisons from some plant, like my mind goes, why tf should I care about any of that, it has no use to me at all, but I see Ti types going nuts over that stuff in casual conversation lol. To me they look like they just like to know stuff and may read books on it, they like understanding. Maybe with socionics it's purely for understanding aswell, for me that's part of it but I also learn socionics to USE it, if I did find a dual that was a good match, I'd most likely be off this site and done learning about socioics lol until I had kids then I'd probably comeback for more. And Most of the books I've read all the way through have been self help books, because I often look for solutions I can use to fix probs in my life, nothing Ti about it. Ti gets in the way, Ti is like credits at the end of the movie, it's all nice to know but like wtf am I supposed to do with this? I got bills to pay. Invest? In X,Y,Z because look at the facts? Now you have my attention.

Funny enough I've helped my LSE friend with investments because of 4D Ni, but he's helped me with the current day to day news, it's good teamwork.

[Adam Strange]

It's been just over a year since my last date with the ESI-Fi that I was seeing. I think it takes me a long time to get over someone whom I really like, but I'm finally over her. She was really close to my Ideal, but my Ideal isn't Dismissive-Avoidant.

Time to get back into the dating pool.

[MEGANLYNX]

It's truthfully disgusting when you take in a spiritual practice and turn it essentially into prostitution

[Adam Strange]

In my lifetime, both I and society have changed.

When I turned 40, I became invisible to younger women.

Now, later, maybe my confidence is higher or something, but they seem to be returning.

The LSI-Se barista at the local coffee shop just said to me something that sounded like “ayed-day-cha.”

[Lord Pixel]

"dating" phrases I've heard from men and women that seem stereotypical of socionic types:


Si Ego men: Chivalry is not dead. I want a woman whose adventurous(implication: mentally)./ Si Ego women: A way to a man's heart is through his stomach. I want a man that can make me laugh.


Se Ego men: I like the chase. I like feisty women. / Se Ego women: I like guys who are a little mysterious. I like guys who have their shit together.


Ne Ego men: I want a girl who knows how to take care of her man. I like classy women / Ne Ego women: I want a man who is respectful and knows how to treat a woman like a lady. I want a man to sweep me off my feet.


Ni Ego men : I need a girl that can fit into my lifestyle. I want a woman whose adventurous (implication: physically). / Ni Ego women: I want a man that can handle me. I always go for the bad boy.

[Lord Pixel]

dating advice I've heard for men that seems stereotypical of socionic types:


Si Ego men: buy her flowers, open doors for her, cook her a meal at your house, give her a massage, stand on the side facing the road, always face the door when eating at a restaurant.


Se Ego men: Lead the interaction, control the frame, initiate physical contact, show sexual intent, man to woman dynamic, create sexual tension, be confident (most advice is Se)


Ni Ego men: Have standards, DHV spikes, negging, disqualify her, stay on your purpose, remember you are the prize.


Ne ego men: Self amusement, witty banter, be unpredictable, make her laugh, stand out, keep things playful.

[Lord Pixel]

Female "icks" i've heard that seem stereotypical of socionic types:

Si Ego Women: My ick is when a guy takes himself too serious.

Se Ego Women: My ick is when he doesn't plan the date.

Ni Ego Women: My ick is when he's not the leader of his friend group.

Ne Ego Women: My ick is when he's too cocky, arrogant.

[Lord Pixel]

Stuff I hear women say on the internet that sounds like socionics.

Ni ego women probably talking about Se ego men - "He's go that Big d*ck energy"

Si ego women probably talking about Ne ego men - "He's got that Golden Retriever energy"

[Tallmo]

I was on a Tinder date today. I had thought that she might be LSE, based on our discussion, and I had low expectations, but it turned out that she is LII. Felt like a jackpot, she is good looking too. Maybe not the best chemistry but nice to meet an activator. Most people I've met on tinder have been of incompatible types and I've felt the odds against me.

[Echo]

Congrats! Probably the most positive sexual relationship I’ve had was with an Activator (SEI). Wasn’t meant to be in the long run but they are still an important person in my life.

[Tallmo]

Congrats! Probably the most positive sexual relationship I’ve had was with an Activator (SEI). Wasn’t meant to be in the long run but they are still an important person in my life.

Thanks. This was just one first date so everything is uncertain. She said she wants to meet again but we'll see what happens. One paradox for me as a SEI man is that the more comfortable I feel with someone, the more IP I become. Maybe not the most masculine temperament in the early stages of dating. Well this is just life and has to be lived and dealt with.

[Echo]

Thanks. This was just one first date so everything is uncertain. She said she wants to meet again but we'll see what happens. One paradox for me as a SEI man is that the more comfortable I feel with someone, the more IP I become. Maybe not the most masculine temperament in the early stages of dating. Well this is just life and has to be lived and dealt with.

Well I can definitely say that LIIs are way less into conventional gender roles/stereotypes than most women are. Most of us have been pretty battered by past relationships so we’re just thrilled when we receive affection and acceptance from our partners. The only thing I can think of that might be a slip up is that we’re not sexual initiators… a lot of men have given up and moved on because they thought I wasn’t into them. So definitely be prepared to take the lead there.

[Tallmo]

Well I can definitely say that LIIs are way less into conventional gender roles/stereotypes than most women are. Most of us have been pretty battered by past relationships so we’re just thrilled when we receive affection and acceptance from our partners. The only thing I can think of that might be a slip up is that we’re not sexual initiators… a lot of men have given up and moved on because they thought I wasn’t into them. So definitely be prepared to take the lead there.

Yes, I think you're right. This LII already contacted me again and we chatted and she took the initiative to a second date. While we chatted it never entered my mind to ask her out, she finally did that. It's just all about being in the moment, no future. Sometimes I surprise myself of how clueless I am. I'm a little worried about this.

LII and SEI are very different. Sometimes the chemistry can play tricks on you, thinking we're not.

[Echo]

Yes, I think you're right. This LII already contacted me again and we chatted and she took the initiative to a second date. While we chatted it never entered my mind to ask her out, she finally did that. It's just all about being in the moment, no future. Sometimes I surprise myself of how clueless I am. I'm a little worried about this.

LII and SEI are very different. Sometimes the chemistry can play tricks on you, thinking we're not.

that’s very true. I found that things like shared interests and similar backgrounds and education levels are way more of a factor in activity relationships than they are with someone like your dual. Interestingly enough, my sister recently married her kindred type and while they have all those things I have a feeling it won’t be enough to keep them together more than seven years tops. I can already see cracks starting to form in their relationship. Ease of communication really is such an important thing.

[Lord Pixel]

that’s very true. I found that things like shared interests and similar backgrounds and education levels are way more of a factor in activity relationships than they are with someone like your dual. Interestingly enough, my sister recently married her kindred type and while they have all those things I have a feeling it won’t be enough to keep them together more than seven years tops. I can already see cracks starting to form in their relationship. Ease of communication really is such an important thing.

Why specifically 7 years?

[Echo]

Why specifically 7 years?

They chose to get engaged after only 1 year of dating and married after 1.5 years of knowing each other. But the cocktail of neurochemicals that creates that happy new relationship feeling doesn’t wear off until between two and four years of being together. If a couple is psychologically compatible, then they are still left with a long-term emotional bond that they can fall back on once the dopamine fades, but if they aren’t, they’re in trouble. Statistics show that couples who get divorced are most likely to divorce after three to seven years of marriage with the majority of divorces occurring in the seventh year. So that’s where I got that number from.

[Tallmo]

that’s very true. I found that things like shared interests and similar backgrounds and education levels are way more of a factor in activity relationships than they are with someone like your dual. Interestingly enough, my sister recently married her kindred type and while they have all those things I have a feeling it won’t be enough to keep them together more than seven years tops. I can already see cracks starting to form in their relationship. Ease of communication really is such an important thing.

Life would be easy if I could date only Alphas. Like, single them out on a dating app. Now I can go a year with only meeting other quadras and the incompatibility is always very clear. I am not picky, I'm open to all Alphas. Especially identical type, activation, maybe duality, but duality is a special case were the price you pay for the bliss and chemistry is a certain split and onesidedness of the mind.

[Tallmo]

I met the LII again. She is very analytical, maybe a bit too analytical. Sometimes she is borderline rambling, and that can be tiring (for me). She said in her profile that she is sensitive. I can feel that, she has some problems opening up and relaxing, although she talks a lot.

We walked down to the harbor to look at the ships. The Si -connection we have is remarkable: The light breeze from the sea, the evening sun, the great ships, stopping for awhile and just enjoying the moment. I feel the Si-connection is much stronger than with ILEs, who have weak Si. But with LII it's more real, you really share that enjoyment for the inner experience.

I have no idea were this is going. Or is it going anywere. Does she even like me, maybe too early to say. Let's see if we can meet again. I will have to activate myself if I want to find out, that's for sure. She is normalizing subtype, by the way.

[Distance]

I met the LII again. She is very analytical, maybe a bit too analytical. Sometimes she is borderline rambling, and that can be tiring (for me). She said in her profile that she is sensitive. I can feel that, she has some problems opening up and relaxing, although she talks a lot.

We walked down to the harbor to look at the ships. The Si -connection we have is remarkable: The light breeze from the sea, the evening sun, the great ships, stopping for awhile and just enjoying the moment. I feel the Si-connection is much stronger than with ILEs, who have weak Si. But with LII it's more real, you really share that enjoyment for the inner experience.

I have no idea were this is going. Or is it going anywere. Does she even like me, maybe too early to say. Let's see if we can meet again. I will have to activate myself if I want to find out, that's for sure. She is normalizing subtype, by the way.

It is a rarer event where i actually enjoy the sensory.

In the winter here in snow conditions, i can get a kick out the different acoustics, or even in the cold vs hot weather i can detect sound transfers are different. Or walking in the woods, but it isn't long lasting where i start to mentally bring up the fire in some connectivity. My wife is SEI, and i can follow it somewhat better, vicariously i think. Ne simulations maybe.

[Adam Strange]

I met the LII again. She is very analytical, maybe a bit too analytical. Sometimes she is borderline rambling, and that can be tiring (for me). She said in her profile that she is sensitive. I can feel that, she has some problems opening up and relaxing, although she talks a lot.

We walked down to the harbor to look at the ships. The Si -connection we have is remarkable: The light breeze from the sea, the evening sun, the great ships, stopping for awhile and just enjoying the moment. I feel the Si-connection is much stronger than with ILEs, who have weak Si. But with LII it's more real, you really share that enjoyment for the inner experience.

I have no idea were this is going. Or is it going anywere. Does she even like me, maybe too early to say. Let's see if we can meet again. I will have to activate myself if I want to find out, that's for sure. She is normalizing subtype, by the way.

Tallmo, I have an LII sister, but she is opaque to me in almost every way, so I can’t give you any personal-experience-based advice on how to romance an LII, other than to say that she likes Si and Fe very much, and she, like all LIIs whom I have ever met, wants to be the one who controls the money in the relationship.

She’s been married three times, and the common reason she left a marriage was not that the guy spent money, but rather that he spent money without consulting her.
That was the deal-breaker.
Remember, she’s built to counter the irresponsible spending of ESEs, and if you’re not listening to her advice, then you’re not the guy she’s looking for.

Beyond that, you might want to get a copy of Helen Palmer’s book, The Enneagram in Love & Work. In that book, Palmer describes the positive and negative aspects of inter-enneagram type relationships.
I don’t know your enneatype, but an LII is almost certain to be a type 5.

[Echo]

Tallmo, I have an LII sister, but she is opaque to me in almost every way, so I can’t give you any personal-experience-based advice on how to romance an LII, other than to say that she likes Si and Fe very much, and she, like all LIIs whom I have ever met, wants to be the one who controls the money in the relationship.

She’s been married three times, and the common reason she left a marriage was not that the guy spent money, but rather that he spent money without consulting her.
That was the deal-breaker.
Remember, she’s built to counter the irresponsible spending of ESEs, and if you’re not listening to her advice, then you’re not the guy she’s looking for.

Beyond that, you might want to get a copy of Helen Palmer’s book, The Enneagram in Love & Work. In that book, Palmer describes the positive and negative aspects of inter-enneagram type relationships.
I don’t know your enneatype, but an LII is almost certain to be a type 5.

how much money are we talking about? Buying groceries without consulting me? a-ok. Buying a Tesla? Not so much. Although it really depends on how much money he/we made. But in my ideal relationship finances would be kept seperate for the most part.

[Adam Strange]

how much money are we talking about? Buying groceries without consulting me? a-ok. Buying a Tesla? Not so much. Although it really depends on how much money he/we made. But in my ideal relationship finances would be kept seperate for the most part.

The first guy had a desk job in Washington, DC, working for the Coast Guard. He make pretty good money (a Supreme Ct judge lived in their same apartment building) and when she met him, he was deep in debt. Like, $100k level or above. She put him on a budget and in two years, they were debt-free. On the day that he was out of debt, he went out and bought a computer gaming system costing tens of thousands. She left him that day.

The second guy was married with kids and had three old houses when she met him. He was working on fixing up the houses to maybe sell them. He also had a classic car collection which he was restoring. One car ran and he'd take it to shows, and the rest were in various states of disassembly. He worked as a lineman for the electric company. After his divorce and remarriage to her, he was pretty deeply in debt, but his retirement promised to be great, when he retired.
After a couple years of marriage, she looked out the kitchen window and saw that he'd bought a $100k pickup truck. Without discussing it with her. That pretty much ended that.

Later, she told me that she had been terrified by the fact that she was responsible for his debts and was afraid that he'd die before he retired, because he had so much debt that she'd never be able to pay it all off from her salary from the college. I should have asked her if she could have taken out a life insurance policy on him, but it didn't occur to me at the time.

For the record, the loves of her life were an EIE with his own airplane (great guy, terrible in bed, according to her), the ILI in Washington, DC (not sure why she married him), and an LSE with the car collection (great in bed, but never listened to her). Plus a large number of bar pickups and some scummy deadbeat guys from high school, whom she still keeps in touch with, amazingly enough.

[Tallmo]

Tallmo, I have an LII sister, but she is opaque to me in almost every way, so I can’t give you any personal-experience-based advice on how to romance an LII, other than to say that she likes Si and Fe very much, and she, like all LIIs whom I have ever met, wants to be the one who controls the money in the relationship.

Money has already come up, because we went to a restaurant and I payed the bill. It was my idea to go there, I had made the reservation, so I thought the only decent thing is that I take the check. Normally I am not that eager to pay for a date, but if the initiative comes from me, then I think it's always better to be responsible all the way to the end for the consequences of eating out. She liked it that I payed (it wasn't that expensive, though). (However, I think there is a strong Fe aspect to this. How to behave and have a gentleman attitude, not leaving her confused on what to do)

She’s been married three times, and the common reason she left a marriage was not that the guy spent money, but rather that he spent money without consulting her.
That was the deal-breaker.
Remember, she’s built to counter the irresponsible spending of ESEs, and if you’re not listening to her advice, then you’re not the guy she’s looking for.

Beyond that, you might want to get a copy of Helen Palmer’s book, The Enneagram in Love & Work. In that book, Palmer describes the positive and negative aspects of inter-enneagram type relationships.

I don't need more theory, just more real life. Every situation and person is different, and sometimes one should go by the book, but sometimes it's best to forget everything one has learned and just be in the situation.

I don’t know your enneatype,

I'm a Nine.

but an LII is almost certain to be a type 5.

yes! she is probably a five. So not the best match. I'm more into 7s.

[Echo]

The first guy had a desk job in Washington, DC, working for the Coast Guard. He make pretty good money (a Supreme Ct judge lived in their same apartment building) and when she met him, he was deep in debt. Like, $100k level or above. She put him on a budget and in two years, they were debt-free. On the day that he was out of debt, he went out and bought a computer gaming system costing tens of thousands. She left him that day.

The second guy was married with kids and had three old houses when she met him. He was working on fixing up the houses to maybe sell them. He also had a classic car collection which he was restoring. One car ran and he'd take it to shows, and the rest were in various states of disassembly. He worked as a lineman for the electric company. After his divorce and remarriage to her, he was pretty deeply in debt, but his retirement promised to be great, when he retired.
After a couple years of marriage, she looked out the kitchen window and saw that he'd bought a $100k pickup truck. Without discussing it with her. That pretty much ended that.

Later, she told me that she had been terrified by the fact that she was responsible for his debts and was afraid that he'd die before he retired, because he had so much debt that she'd never be able to pay it all off from her salary from the college. I should have asked her if she could have taken out a life insurance policy on him, but it didn't occur to me at the time.

For the record, the loves of her life were an EIE with his own airplane (great guy, terrible in bed, according to her), the ILI in Washington, DC (not sure why she married him), and an LSE with the car collection (great in bed, but never listened to her). Plus a large number of bar pickups and some scummy deadbeat guys from high school, whom she still keeps in touch with, amazingly enough.

Hmmm… I’m kind of with her on these. Having that amount of debt sounds pretty terrifying. But maybe that’s because of growing up with my ESI mother who always drilled into me the importance of being self-sufficient. she grew up very poor (as a child she and her siblings used to go to bed hungry a lot cause there was no money for food) and I think in her mind having money is the only way she feels safe.
I mean, if he’s making enough money that he’s not going into debt then it’s his prerogative what he wants to spend it on, but I wouldn’t want to have to share his debts unless it’s on something that makes sense like student loans or a business investment or a mortgage. But definitely not a computer gaming system.

[Adam Strange]

Hmmm… I’m kind of with her on these. Having that amount of debt sounds pretty terrifying. But maybe that’s because of growing up with my ESI mother who always drilled into me the importance of being self-sufficient. she grew up very poor (as a child she and her siblings used to go to bed hungry a lot cause there was no money for food) and I think in her mind having money is the only way she feels safe.
I mean, if he’s making enough money that he’s not going into debt then it’s his prerogative what he wants to spend it on, but I wouldn’t want to have to share his debts unless it’s on something that makes sense like student loans or a business investment or a mortgage. But definitely not a computer gaming system.

Yes, going back into big debt to buy a gaming system seems pretty stupid, but the ILI wasn't stupid.

My personal opinion, based on nothing, is that an LII-ILI marriage is not an easy, flowing, naturally supportive relationship and therefore they had to find other ways to bond. The ILI saw that the LII was obviously focused on him while he was in debt (and ILIs crave being focused on), so getting out of debt removed the LII's reasons for paying attention to him. Or so he thought. So, of course, he went back into debt to keep her interested in him.

He completely misunderstood the situation that he was in. But most people are in the place of massive ignorance as to their real situation.

[Echo]

Yes, going back into big debt to buy a gaming system seems pretty stupid, but the ILI wasn't stupid.

My personal opinion, based on nothing, is that an LII-ILI marriage is not an easy, flowing, naturally supportive relationship and therefore they had to find other ways to bond. The ILI saw that the LII was obviously focused on him while he was in debt (and ILIs crave being focused on), so getting out of debt removed the LII's reasons for paying attention to him. Or so he thought. So, of course, he went back into debt to keep her interested in him.

He completely misunderstood the situation that he was in. But most people are in the place of massive ignorance as to their real situation.

yeah that makes sense. Mine took a different approach and decided to basically just berate me until my self esteem was low and then tried to alienate me from the other people in my life I focused on so I would have no one to pay attention to but him. It nearly worked, but not quite. In the end I left.

[Adam Strange]

Hmmm… I’m kind of with her on these. Having that amount of debt sounds pretty terrifying. But maybe that’s because of growing up with

my ESI mother who always drilled into me the importance of being self-sufficient. she grew up very poor (as a child she and her siblings used to go to bed hungry a lot cause there was no money for food) and I think in her mind having money is the only way she feels safe.


I mean, if he’s making enough money that he’s not going into debt then it’s his prerogative what he wants to spend it on, but I wouldn’t want to have to share his debts unless it’s on something that makes sense like student loans or a business investment or a mortgage. But definitely not a computer gaming system.

I grew up poor, too, although I didn't know it and my mother told us we were rich because, on the concrete front porch of our standard little house, we had a front door mat with our family's initial in it, which she found at some yard sale. For her, that was the equivalent of parking your Rolls in the driveway so the neighbors can see that you are better than they are.

I also often went to bed hungry, but the lack of food was never presented as a result of a lack of money. Instead, we were misdirected. I'd tell my mother that I was still hungry, and she'd tell me to drink some water. As if that was my problem.

Still, I don't feel insecure about money. If I have enough to pay my bills, I'm happy. If my bills are non-reducible, then I scramble to find money, but I normally don't feel like I don't have enough of the stuff. I think of it like drinking water. I need a certain amount of water, but once I have that, it disappears from my attention.

Love, on the other hand, is something I crave constantly and I don't have enough of it when I'm not in a committed relationship. ESI and LIE lack, respectively, money and love. Fortunately, they normally each have enough so they can flood the other with it.

[Echo]

Money has already come up, because we went to a restaurant and I payed the bill. It was my idea to go there, I had made the reservation, so I thought the only decent thing is that I take the check. Normally I am not that eager to pay for a date, but if the initiative comes from me, then I think it's always better to be responsible all the way to the end for the consequences of eating out. She liked it that I payed (it wasn't that expensive, though). (However, I think there is a strong Fe aspect to this. How to behave and have a gentleman attitude, not leaving her confused on what to do)



I don't need more theory, just more real life. Every situation and person is different, and sometimes one should go by the book, but sometimes it's best to forget everything one has learned and just be in the situation.



I'm a Nine.



yes! she is probably a five. So not the best match. I'm more into 7s.

do you know her subtype yet? I’m Ne subtype and very ADHD which I think makes me a little more appealing to my activators… I have days where I have a lot of chaos energy (mostly the med-free days)

[Echo]

Love, on the other hand, is something I crave constantly and I don't have enough of it when I'm not in a committed relationship. ESI and LIE lack, respectively, money and love. Fortunately, they normally each have enough so they can flood the other with it.

that’s a really good way of putting it and it makes total sense (based on what I’ve witnessed of my parents)

[Adam Strange]

yeah that makes sense. Mine took a different approach and decided to basically just berate me until my self esteem was low and then tried to alienate me from the other people in my life I focused on so I would have no one to pay attention to but him. It nearly worked, but not quite. In the end I left.

A big red flag in relationships is when your partner tries to alienate your friends from you. My SLI-ex never did that, to her credit. My ESI interior decorator has told me that she doesn't like some of my friends, but has never said that I should drop them. My LSI ex-GF tried to cut me off from my friends and family, and that was just one indicator that she was a temp.

I have an ILI-Te buddy who married an insane LSI, and she did succeed in cutting him off from his friends. He stayed with her, though, the fool. His life is now a bowl of shit.

[Adam Strange]

that’s a really good way of putting it and it makes total sense (based on what I’ve witnessed of my parents)

Echo, if you weren't familiar with the real reasons why Duals need each other, you should visit this site:

https://typingispainintheass.tumblr....y-descriptions


Quoted here because every site will eventually disappear.

The accurate Duality descriptions

Disclaimer!
If you have even a slight tendency to take things seriously this is you cue to walk away. The following is made by ESTP’s and it consists of provoking, crude and plain offensive stereotypes. The rest of you: be ashamed of yourselves! (I laughed too)

ILE (ENTP)/SEI (ISFJ):
ILE: I’m a spazzy social cripple who constantly spews out all this awkward bullshit. I also need someone to feed me. Help!
SEI: Hahahahaha, hi there!!! I’ll give you some of my breastmilk and tell you everything you should say around people, as long as you tell me that I’m smart all the time (even if I’m a dumbfuck)! Sounds good>>!>!>!?!!?!
ILE: It’s a deal! Now dress me in a diaper and I’ll get you a chilled beverage. We can have sex with both objects.

LII (INTP)/ESE (ESFJ):
LII: I’m a really ugly nerd, and I am completely oblivious to my surroundings. Also, I cry whenever someone tells me that I need to move because I’m blocking their way. What can I do about this particular issue?
ESE: YOU JUST NEED ME TO TALK TALK TALK TO EVERYONE THAT GETS IN YOUR WAY!!!!!!!!!!! I’LL BORE THEM TO DEATH (LITERALLY) AND THEN YOU’LL BE FREEEEEEEEEEEEE! BUT ONE THING CAN YOU PLEASE HELP ME NOT FREAK OUT AT EVERY LITTLE THING THAT DOESN’T GO TO PLAN?!?!?!?!?!
LII: Sure, I will help you organize your day so you don’t accidentally kill off good people with your boring talk. Cool.

SLE (ESTP)/IEI (INFJ):
IEI: I am sitting on this couch, slitting my wrists. I need someone to punish me like the naughty teenager I am. Spank me! I’ve been bad!
SLE: Yo muthafucka, SLE’s IN DA HOOD YO! Bend ova, bitch, cuz I’m gonna snap a whip on yo ass if you don’t BE-HAVE. Oh, and while we’re at dis, can you help me restore my rep after I kick everyone’s azz? Ho, I need ya to tell me I’m awesome.
IEI: *slap* Ahhh, harder! *smack* I’ll help you after you’re done raping me! Don’t stop!

LSI (ISTP)/EIE (ENFJ):
LSI: I get my panties in a bunch if someone breaks a rule. I’m also two-faced, ultra-serious and I have bad character. What can I do to help fix this? I have no Ne, so I can’t think of anything.
EIE: HEY HEY HOOOOOOOO! I CAN JUST BE CHEEERY AND OBNOXIOUS AROUND YOU, AND YOU’LL BE SOO HAPPY AND EVERYTHING WILL BE GOOD! CAN YOU HELP ME NOT BE STUPID THOUGH? I’M A FEELER, SO I CAN’T THINK.
LSI: Haha, thanks! I’ll be your walking checkbook, so you don’t have to do any thinking at all.

SEE (ESFP)/ILI (INTJ):
ILI: Ugh. The world sucks. I hate everyone because they suck. Everyone hates me back. Life sucks. You suck.
SEE: Hey there, life’s not so bad when you’re getting laid 8 times a day! Here, how about I help you with that whole virginity thing that you’ve been angry about for the past 24 years? I’ll sleep with anyone, so it’s all good!
ILI: Thank you. I have always wanted to see a set of genitals besides my own, but to no avail. I’ll predict what STD everyone has so that you don’t get it and pass it to me.

ESI (ISFP)/LIE (ENTJ):
LIE: Money. Facts. Capitalism. Financial security. Office meetings. Efficiency. More boring corporate shit. Help, I can’t relate to people, because no one gives a shit about any of the neat things I listed above.
ESI: I may be a stone cold bitch on the outside, but I really care about you deep down in the bottom of my icy heart. As long as you continue to get $500k a year, that’s all I care about. I will love you unconditionally and never let go.
LIE: Thanks, I was getting worried there for a second that I’d be alone for the rest of my life. Now I know that someone cares about me, even if they really only care about my paycheck. Nice!

IEE (ENFP)/SLI (ISTJ):
SLI: I hate life, and I’m considering bringing a weapon to school so I can cause the next Columbine. I will then shoot myself in the head because I’d go to jail for life otherwise.
IEE: Hey look! A butterfly! It’s so preeettty! Oh wait, what was that again? I didn’t hear you the first tiiiiime!
SLI: Heh, you’re really funny. I’m not so angry any more. Just for helping me, how about I fix your car for free?

EII (INFP)/LSE (ESTJ):
LSE: Although I am such a manly caretaker, I can’t make brownies by myself. Hey, oh feminine EII, can you make me some brownies? Because that’s all you’re good for: being girly and making brownies.
EII: Yes, I will make you brownies. Since you are my masculine provider, I feel the need to service you like a good wife should. I’ll also help you get over your fear of being less than an hour early to your next office meeting.
LSE: Why thank you, ma'am. I’ll be sure to bring you some empty cash so you can get to the kitchen and make me more brownies.
(x)

[Tallmo]

do you know her subtype yet? I’m Ne subtype and very ADHD which I think makes me a little more appealing to my activators… I have days where I have a lot of chaos energy (mostly the med-free days)

She is Normalizing.

I only use DCNH so I cant conceptualize it any other way.

[Echo]

She is Normalizing.

I only use DCNH so I cant conceptualize it any other way.

hmmm. I’m kinda on the fence about DCNH. Maybe I never understood it properly but I couldn’t quite see how it naturally tied into the rest of socionics theories

[Echo]

A big red flag in relationships is when your partner tries to alienate your friends from you. My SLI-ex never did that, to her credit. My ESI interior decorator has told me that she doesn't like some of my friends, but has never said that I should drop them. My LSI ex-GF tried to cut me off from my friends and family, and that was just one indicator that she was a temp.

I have an ILI-Te buddy who married an insane LSI, and she did succeed in cutting him off from his friends. He stayed with her, though, the fool. His life is now a bowl of shit.

Yeah, it was pretty insidious how he did it. We got together when I was 23 and he was 30 which should’ve been a red flag right there, but I was young and completely naïve when it came to relationships. Luckily I got wise and got out.

[Tallmo]

hmmm. I’m kinda on the fence about DCNH. Maybe I never understood it properly but I couldn’t quite see how it naturally tied into the rest of socionics theories

Well, you can just take it as an empirical description if I say Normalizing, you don't have to accept anything.

It has to do with how the type is put to use, and certain emphasizes. I think it's pretty easy to observe, even if one doesn't know the theory, it's enough to read through what Gulenko has written on DCNH.