Adventures in Dating

[Echo]

Echo, asking someone if they are there for you is the basic interaction in all relationships. It's not a Victim/Aggressor thing. It is a normal for everyone to do this when in a relationship. Because, if they aren't there for you, why are you in this relationship?

It is only when support is unbalanced and only goes one way that the relationship becomes unhealthy.

Ideally, you will have your partner's back when they are feeling unsure of things. That's a given. But when one person is constantly pulling away and is never going towards you, then that is not an equal partnership.

A lot of relationships operate like this. They often involve Dismissive-Avoidant and Anxious partners, but there could be other reasons for the imbalance. In any case, just because you have two unhealthy people whose particular flaws match and enable each to get validation for their unhealthiness, does not mean that this is a good relationship.

My ex-wife was a Dismissive-Avoidant. When I married her, I was willing to stick with her for the rest of my life, but the more a Dismissive-Avoidant likes you, the more they will pull away. They still like and need you, but they aren't there for you.

I could say a lot more about this, but thinking about the years that I wasted in that relationship makes me insanely angry, so instead, let me leave you with this simple thought: I need someone who is able and willing to reciprocate both my feelings and my actions.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PxHTGD7o4cU

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0oChkdXv0QA

I suppressed my needs for many years, just like my father did in his marriage, but I'm not going to do that again.

And let me give you a weather forecast. A guy will put up with a lot from his wife, especially if they have been married for many years, but if there ever comes a break and the guy has a chance to stop, look around, see where he's been and what his future looks like, he can and very likely will leave a relationship where he is not appreciated.

I did, and it was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

Obviously, there's a lot of context here I don't know about. I was just curious.

[Adam Strange]

Obviously, there's a lot of context here I don't know about. I was just curious.

I apologize, @Echo. I should have calmed down before responding.

Mostly, I’m mad at myself for allowing myself to be strung along for so long. So many wasted opportunities when I was trying to repair a marriage that was irretrievably broken.

My ex probably has a completely different perspective on her behavior and the entire situation, one which attributes her actions to being completely caring and concerned, but to me, that feels like more bullshit from her.

The nice thing is that she’s out of my life. The bad thing is that I obviously haven’t fully let go of my anger yet.

Anyway, we all go along to get along, until we realize that the other person is laughing at our expense. Then, we stop trying to play nice.

Even monkeys understand reciprocity and when it is lacking. Why didn’t I?

[godslave]

I’m 50 Y/O Japanese man. I give you the reality of Japanese men’s struggle with seeking True LOVE

Earlier this evening, I briefly touched on the subject of the rarity of true love in the "Typology Random Thoughts" thread. For some reason I feel very close in spirit with middle-age japanese men struggling with loneliness. Askjapan posted this video 2 hours ago (as I'm writing this) and he has something to say about how Japanese use dating apps.

[Echo]

I apologize, @Echo. I should have calmed down before responding.

Mostly, I’m mad at myself for allowing myself to be strung along for so long. So many wasted opportunities when I was trying to repair a marriage that was irretrievably broken.

My ex probably has a completely different perspective on her behavior and the entire situation, one which attributes her actions to being completely caring and concerned, but to me, that feels like more bullshit from her.

The nice thing is that she’s out of my life. The bad thing is that I obviously haven’t fully let go of my anger yet.

Anyway, we all go along to get along, until we realize that the other person is laughing at our expense. Then, we stop trying to play nice.

Even monkeys understand reciprocity and when it is lacking. Why didn’t I?

I was in a relationship with a supervisor once too, I understand. You keep giving and giving and you think that it must mean something to them. But it doesnt. My ex said I was the most selfless person he ever dated. I stayed with him when his life was in crisis, even at the expense of my career. But in the end it meant less than nothing to him because the second he didn't want me anymore he tossed me away. I knew after things ended that it wouldnt be the same, but I had thought that I would still mean something to him on some level. I thought it would still be cordial and I could rely on him if things came to that. We were so close for so long… but he wouldn't even help me move my stuff out (I'm physically disabled). It was rough. That relationship made me feel less than worthless for a very long time. Mostly because I couldn't believe I had been so blind to his true character.

[Lord Pixel]

So I'm very confused but in a good way since something very out of the ordinary happened to me today. Months ago at my job they hired a bunch of new people. One of the hires was the girl I thought was super attractive but as the bumbling idiot as I am I was a total loss of what to say to her, throw that in with just complete cowardice, she just looked a tad bit outta my league.

Fast forward months later and today she just starts talking to me and tells me I look like some famous rapper (the guy is hideous and covered in face tats, I am not covered in face tats.) I faked being offended and we kinda laughed it off, she asked me who I think she looks like and I tell her Lizzo (she's not even the same race as lizzo let alone the same size).

All of the sudden we are talking and getting along messing with each other and getting to know each other and I'm just absolutely confused how this girl I was initially afraid to talk to and felt could get any guy and was outta my league was sitting here chatting with me.

I didn't get her number but I have a feeling that won't be the last time we talk, but man, I just shocked at the whole thing. This doesn't happen to me ever, and I'm never not tied up in a ball of nerves when talking to a girl that pretty, but surprisingly she was very easy to talk to. Idk her type tho, I can tell she's most likely not a dual, but she said she's going to school for finance to maybe be an accountant or fiancial analyst, I teased her about being a nerd and she said her mind is just good with numbers she catches on to that stuff easily. So yea idk her type, I think thinker is a safe bet.

[Lord Pixel]

I apologize, @Echo. I should have calmed down before responding.

Mostly, I’m mad at myself for allowing myself to be strung along for so long. So many wasted opportunities when I was trying to repair a marriage that was irretrievably broken.

My ex probably has a completely different perspective on her behavior and the entire situation, one which attributes her actions to being completely caring and concerned, but to me, that feels like more bullshit from her.

The nice thing is that she’s out of my life. The bad thing is that I obviously haven’t fully let go of my anger yet.

Anyway, we all go along to get along, until we realize that the other person is laughing at our expense. Then, we stop trying to play nice.

Even monkeys understand reciprocity and when it is lacking. Why didn’t I?

This is the 1st time Fi seeking has been made clear to me. All makes sense now.

[Adam Strange]

So I'm very confused but in a good way since something very out of the ordinary happened to me today. Months ago at my job they hired a bunch of new people. One of the hires was the girl I thought was super attractive but as the bumbling idiot as I am I was a total loss of what to say to her, throw that in with just complete cowardice, she just looked a tad bit outta my league.

Fast forward months later and today she just starts talking to me and tells me I look like some famous rapper (the guy is hideous and covered in face tats, I am not covered in face tats.) I faked being offended and we kinda laughed it off, she asked me who I think she looks like and I tell her Lizzo (she's not even the same race as lizzo let alone the same size).

All of the sudden we are talking and getting along messing with each other and getting to know each other and I'm just absolutely confused how this girl I was initially afraid to talk to and felt could get any guy and was outta my league was sitting here chatting with me.

I didn't get her number but I have a feeling that won't be the last time we talk, but man, I just shocked at the whole thing. This doesn't happen to me ever, and I'm never not tied up in a ball of nerves when talking to a girl that pretty, but surprisingly she was very easy to talk to. Idk her type tho, I can tell she's most likely not a dual, but she said she's going to school for finance to maybe be an accountant or fiancial analyst, I teased her about being a nerd and she said her mind is just good with numbers she catches on to that stuff easily. So yea idk her type, I think thinker is a safe bet.

@Lord Pixel, you really don't know her type?

She's classy, attractive, quick with numbers, interested in finance, seems out of your league to you, but she has no trouble talking to you (so she's extroverted), and you both end up having a great time while talking with each other.

Most likely, she's that unicorn of the Socion, the female LIE.

Note that Stratiyevskaya said that it is easier to start a relationship with a Semi-Dual than with a Dual. She's right. My EII secretary is a jewel beyond price, but she's not a Dual.

If you see this woman again, enjoy the conversation, but don't try to work together. Neither of you can get the other to get off their ass and actually do something.

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya

[Lord Pixel]

@Lord Pixel, you really don't know her type?

She's classy, attractive, quick with numbers, interested in finance, seems out of your league to you, but she has no trouble talking to you (so she's extroverted), and you both end up having a great time while talking with each other.

Most likely, she's that unicorn of the Socion, the female LIE.

Note that Stratiyevskaya said that it is easier to start a relationship with a Semi-Dual than with a Dual. She's right. My EII secretary is a jewel beyond price, but she's not a Dual.

If you see this woman again, enjoy the conversation, but don't try to work together. Neither of you can get the other to get off their ass and actually do something.

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya

Yea I really don't know her type. idk if she's classy, she didn't seem out of my league in a hard to get kinda way, just looks wise. My gut tells me she's introverted, but yea don't know her type, I doubt LIE though.

[Lord Pixel]

I talked to the cute co-worker again and I'm starting to suspect she's actually ILI. Talking to her is super fun and there is a flirtatious vibe going on between us despite the IR. There is a very masculine-feminine vibe going on which I usually notice between me and ILI girls. They are alot softer than they let on initially. I can tell I turn more into an EXXp when I talk to her, so it's probably my psyche going in the direction that's more rewarded and using the tools at hand to get the dopamine spike, that being using extraverted perception to counter he introverted perception despite them both being N. Might not be the best IR but I am enjoying it while it lasts. She does have a floater around her though that possibly sees me as a threat. I'll see where it leads if anything this is just social practice for a dual. So ILI (my gues so far) so @Adam Strange was pretty damn close.

[fbx]

Still with the same girl, just on the phone, sms'ing. She's got a pretty good body, the face isn't very beautiful. Also, her choice of clothing doesn't match expectations. She's kinda cute but also a bit of a pain in the ass. I guess, if we removed that bad part in females, we would all be homo

[loopyclouds]

I talked to the cute co-worker again and I'm starting to suspect she's actually ILI. Talking to her is super fun and there is a flirtatious vibe going on between us despite the IR. There is a very masculine-feminine vibe going on which I usually notice between me and ILI girls. They are alot softer than they let on initially. I can tell I turn more into an EXXp when I talk to her, so it's probably my psyche going in the direction that's more rewarded and using the tools at hand to get the dopamine spike, that being using extraverted perception to counter he introverted perception despite them both being N. Might not be the best IR but I am enjoying it while it lasts. She does have a floater around her though that possibly sees me as a threat. I'll see where it leads if anything this is just social practice for a dual. So ILI (my gues so far) so @Adam Strange was pretty damn close.

Benefactors activate beneficiaries, so you becoming more extroverted around her makes sense.

[loopyclouds]

I want an LSE…. Sigh… ��

[Lord Pixel]

I want an LSE…. Sigh… ��

Find the most boring job and go up to someone in middle management and say "boomshakalaka-boomshakalaka-BOOM!"
LSE will come a crawlin'.

[loopyclouds]

Find the most boring job and go up to someone in middle management and say "boomshakalaka-boomshakalaka-BOOM!"
LSE will come a crawlin'.

Eh you’d be surprised. A lot of LSEs are not in those mid-level administrative jobs like its said in their descriptions. The most recent LSE I knew has aspirations to be a kindergarten teacher or a youth pastor .

[Lord Pixel]

Spoke to my co-worker again and things went extremely well and there is definitely a flirtatious vibe between us, but I sort of feel like I'm competing with another guy to talk to her, I personally don't feel threatened but I saw the guy walk past me talking to her and he threw his hands in the air like I was hogging her time or something lol. When work was over I was hoping to walk her to her car and ask for her number but the other guy got to her before I did so I had to quickly pull her to the side and get her number, I kinda felt like a dick cuz I was sorta pushy but I was trying to hurry up so she could get back to her friend. Anyway she first declined but then ended up giving me the number after I insisted. I only persisted because we had too good of a time talking.

I'm slowing being convinced she's IEI, idk what I was thinking with ILI when I noticed Fe from very early on. I guess I just stereotyped her as a thinker based on what she said about her majoring in business and having a mind for numbers.

I didn't expct to but I saw her the very next day. I didn't really wanna see her, I wanted to have some anticipation going and maybe text her in a couple days, but low and behold she was at work that day, (she's usually not). I said hi to her but didn't wanna be all around her for the 2nd day in a row and be too available so I worked the first half of my shift in a different section than her. But the 2nd half I went over to her section to bother her, at first she didn't talk much, said she was feeling like shit from something she ate. But I noticed she was talking to the other guy alot more and i started to doubt if she was interested in me. But then I just decided to not give af and talk to her anyway and that seemed to work in my favor, I was no longer worried about her talking to the other guy and I just talked to her when I wanted and I think I might have hit in her Ti mobilizing because we finally hit a topic where I had her full attention and she was getting into it, like a light debate. Seems like Ti mobilizing at least, she also tried to lowkey flex how smart she is lol so sounds like Ti HA also. I started out feeling EP but then when that light debate started things all of the sudden felt Ti. She wants to continue the debate next time we meet, so that's a good sign that she's interested in talking to me. I'm struggling because she's not a dual, but she's exactly my type in looks and smart and into a topic that I'm highly educated in and passionate about, she's like a frikkin' triple threat! So it's hard knowing socionics in a case like this because I want to fully give this a shot but I also fear incompatible ITR, what is a guy supposed to do lol? Right now, I'm going along for the ride, because if anything this is dating practice for when a dual is around.

If I did date this girl things would get interesting if I brought her around my SLE friend whose married to an ESI.

[Lord Pixel]

I met the coworker again at my next work shift and didn't want to go directly to her section and start chatting her up since I had seen her the day before but I was excited to continue our conversation "debate" from the previous day. I finally made my way to her section but two guys were talking to her already, I tired to wait it out but I didn't want to look like I was waiting my turn to talk to her so I walked away. She ends up going to another section and work, away from those guys, and after about 5 mins I go to that section. I try to chat her up but she seems sort of out of it, not into it. I try to bring up the debate that she suggested we continue the day before, but she's not into it. So I just try and tease her a bit to get a positive vibe going, and she starts telling me she's just a girl that knows interesting facts, idk if she's got low self esteem or doubts her self but it seems to be something close to that. I tried to give her a compliment ant say she was smart and she goes "I'm not." so idk.

I have no clear clue of her feelings about me at this point. This work shift she didn't seem all that interested in talking to me so I left her alone for most of the shift, and even though I'd like to date her idk where she stands at this point. The only real clue I had is from two previous works shifts ago where, while we were having fun talking, my manager asked me to work a different section, then when I started leaving she goes "Hey, did he tell me to go to the section too?" I tell her " No, they are taking me away from you." and her Fe couldn't help itself and she just goes "Nooooo." and she tried to hide it by saying "I mean....yaaay" because she tried to act like she doesn't like me lol. So idk man. Victim romance style and being doubtful of their feelings for someone is all I can chok it up to. I'm still scared socionics is gonna bite me in the ass if I date3 this girl, even though I am attracted af to her and highly motivated. Also without valued Fi I don't feel any "connection" like I've felt with other types that value Fi, so this Fi/Fe dynamic is weird af for me lol. Wtf am I doing man lol I think I'm just blinded by a cute face. My biology is working against me here I swear.

[loopyclouds]

Idk man, I wouldn’t wish for a quasi-identical for a long-term partner. I love IEIs as friends (more so the IEI-Fe sp types) but like you said, there’s always that Fe/Fi disconnect. Plus their Ni makes me feel disconnected too. We have so many shared interests and can talk for hours about our deepest thoughts, but they always hold something back I feel. They probably feel that way about me with my Fi. I try to get them to open up with my Ne, and they me, with their Fe.

[Lord Pixel]

Idk man, I wouldn’t wish for a quasi-identical for a long-term partner. I love IEIs as friends (more so the IEI-Fe sp types) but like you said, there’s always that Fe/Fi disconnect. Plus their Ni makes me feel disconnected too. We have so many shared interests and can talk for hours about our deepest thoughts, but they always hold something back I feel. They probably feel that way about me with my Fi. I try to get them to open up with my Ne, and they me, with their Fe.

Yea, that sounds about right. I do feel dumb trying to go through with this. But...yea.

[Adam Strange]

I met the coworker again at my next work shift and didn't want to go directly to her section and start chatting her up since I had seen her the day before but I was excited to continue our conversation "debate" from the previous day. I finally made my way to her section but two guys were talking to her already, I tired to wait it out but I didn't want to look like I was waiting my turn to talk to her so I walked away. She ends up going to another section and work, away from those guys, and after about 5 mins I go to that section. I try to chat her up but she seems sort of out of it, not into it. I try to bring up the debate that she suggested we continue the day before, but she's not into it. So I just try and tease her a bit to get a positive vibe going, and she starts telling me she's just a girl that knows interesting facts, idk if she's got low self esteem or doubts her self but it seems to be something close to that. I tried to give her a compliment ant say she was smart and she goes "I'm not." so idk.

I have no clear clue of her feelings about me at this point. This work shift she didn't seem all that interested in talking to me so I left her alone for most of the shift, and even though I'd like to date her idk where she stands at this point. The only real clue I had is from two previous works shifts ago where, while we were having fun talking, my manager asked me to work a different section, then when I started leaving she goes "Hey, did he tell me to go to the section too?" I tell her " No, they are taking me away from you." and her Fe couldn't help itself and she just goes "Nooooo." and she tried to hide it by saying "I mean....yaaay" because she tried to act like she doesn't like me lol.

So idk man. Victim romance style and being doubtful of their feelings for someone is all I can chok it up to. I'm still scared socionics is gonna bite me in the ass if I date3 this girl, even though I am attracted af to her and highly motivated. Also without valued Fi I don't feel any "connection" like I've felt with other types that value Fi, so this Fi/Fe dynamic is weird af for me lol. Wtf am I doing man lol I think I'm just blinded by a cute face. My biology is working against me here I swear.

[Adam Strange]

This is the 1st time Fi seeking has been made clear to me. All makes sense now.

The Fi-seeking guy in the video is LIE for sure.



He also has a Victim romance style. Lol.

[spacious]

The Fi-seeking guy in the video is LIE for sure.



He also has a Victim romance style. Lol.

IT'S UP TO YOU HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHA

[Adam Strange]

IT'S UP TO YOU HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHA

Yes. Very true. I can approach attractive ESIs and make my interest known, but I can't really advance past that point unless they give me a clear indication that their door is open.*

Professionally, and in my interpersonal relationships, I open doors for people, but I don't insist that they go through them.
If they do, then great. If they don't, it's not my loss.

*

After going out a few times with my last ESI GF, she and I were sitting at her kitchen table, talking, and I told her that I wanted to kiss her.

I'm not exactly the smoothest guy in the world, but I do need to know if the woman wants my attention.

She said "That would be OK, I guess," and one thing led to another until she took my hand out of her pants and said, "Let's go to the bedroom", because once the door is open, I'm going through it.

Note to all LIEs: ESIs are more easily seduced on their home ground. If you don't get invited to their home, you need to start looking for someone else.

[godslave]

Yes. Very true. I can approach attractive ESIs and make my interest known, but I can't really advance past that point unless they give me a clear indication that their door is open.

I'm like that too.

Back when I had a life, the way I would make my interest known was just by making eye contact. It's a certain kind of look though, subtle. Btw, guys when you want to give that look just try to align your right eye with the "target"'s right eye for about five seconds, focus only on the right eye, the message is intense but clear.

And now that you all have the music of that movie in your heads, here it is before you search for it !

 

Don't watch this if you haven't watched the movie yet ! And go watch it for God's sake !!

[spacious]

@Adam Strange, so, so true about the home ground, lmao. You come to me, where I’m in control of the environment. Aaah…