Adventures in Dating

[BaruchJorgell]

I'm not interested in advertising myself like a car. I don't want to think of my partner that way, and I wouldn't want her to think of me that way. When you start deciding who is or isn't acceptable to you based on such impersonal characteristics you begin to devalue what really matters. And when you devalue these things in others you begin to devalue them in yourself. Using dating apps reduces you as a person.

I also have a problem using dating websites/apps.

It is a quite irrational behaviour (not in the socionics sense) because I think I'd do well there; and also, those apps are where women are expecting to meet people, more and more, at the expense of the attention they might give to people outside those apps.

But I just can't force myself to do it. I've always hated selling myself to get attention. I've even gone so far as pretending I was bad at something (sports, for instance) just to be left alone, many many times.
I also have trouble letting people decide whether I'm worth a shot or not.

I have to admit I don't care very much about romantic relationships. The randomness of it always has put me off.

[FreelancePoliceman]

ur not allowed to type ur personal characteristics? there's no a kind of person based on characteristics that u are and that u would get along with so u define them with those characteristics?

Of course you can try, but who would believe it? Your own impression of yourself is of dubious merit. What you do and how you characteristically act is more valuable and more difficult to fake.

[End]

I'm not interested in advertising myself like a car. I don't want to think of my partner that way, and I wouldn't want her to think of me that way. When you start deciding who is or isn't acceptable to you based on such impersonal characteristics you begin to devalue what really matters. And when you devalue these things in others you begin to devalue them in yourself. Using dating apps reduces you as a person.

Very true, but in today's world it's rather difficult to meet people who are interested. Where do you go? Do you just drive by and hit on the first hot chick ya see walking on the sidewalk? Hit up a bar?

If I had to use a dating app I wouldn't advertise all that much. I'd just post an honest picture of myself and say: "Come meet me and get to know me in person if you're interested in marriage and children. Not interested in 'hook-ups'. Be serious or look elsewhere" Straightforward and to the point. A clear and logical expectation with minimal advertisement. If she asks for my job and shit I say: "I'll tell ya everything you wanna know, but only in person. Where and when do you want to meet?"

That'll screen out 90% of all the crazy chicks and that's the goal.

Of course you can try, but who would believe it? Your own impression of yourself is of dubious merit. What you do and how you characteristically act is more valuable and more difficult to fake.

Especially given what women tend to advertise as "Average" body type. Yeah, average for Wal-Mart after midnight more often than not if ya catch my meaning. Also, the longer the "ad" the more fucked up they are as a person (goes for both genders). Long ass descriptions and/or detailed lists of expectations are cover for deep seated attachment issues. You can try to fix them if you want, but know what you're getting into. It's gonna take a lot of effort and patience on your part (assuming you lack those issues) to get them to the point where they're normal.

Not that it can't be worth it because that process will grant the relationship a very deep level of intimacy, but again, know what you're getting into.

[Bethanyclaire]

ok I probably share too much stuff on this site, but what the hell, I like it here

So yesterday I ended up at a big music event by myself, (well kinda with people, but not people I knew well). I was checking people out in the crowd and at one point I spotted Mr obvious Estp. I was feeling a bit lonely and sad as the day wasn't going to plan. Later on I saw the Estp again at the bar so I hung around on the off chance I could get his attention. I watched him steal a can of coke from behind the bar and managed to catch his eye, however, I of course didn't expect him to offer me the can and I mumbled something about not liking coke, under the noise of the music, like an idiot. He pulled a face, probably thinking I was judging him for stealing. (He also stole another can..haha). Anyway I watched him dance around a bit and then he was lost to the crowd. Lesson learnt- if you're gonna stalk duals, expect them to react and talk to you . Someone, learn from my lesson Anyway this guy was probs too young, cool and crazy for me but still I wish I had took that can of coke. I always do dumb stuff like that lol. I can't think clearly in loud, noisy places. You need your friends with you..!

And just now....I matched with a cute (non dual) on an app...this is one of few people I unmatched in the past but regretted un-matching. Some days are good, some are bad...

edit: feel a bit irresponsible for mentioning the story above. Even though I had wish I spoke to the Estp, I think he probably was too much of a bad boy lol, also he only offered me the drink because I was looking at him. I think it can be dangerous to ‘look’ for a dual as you may end up with a bad one, so I don’t want it to sound like I’m romanticising it too much..

[Bethanyclaire]

Think I may be chatting to an SLE. Answered a bunch of qs on ok Cupid and filled in my profile. Guy seems nice.

[Bethanyclaire]

Dating apps can be stressful. Meeting a man you don’t know can be scary, they are often very forward and you feel like they’re trying to trick you into sleeping with them. (Even if it’s just crossed wires/ they’re a bit..immature). And sometimes you just feel really bad that you got someone’s hopes up, when you decide you don’t like them. My new plan is to do only casual first ‘dates’. Somewhere simple, not too much time together. I don’t even want to call it a date, until I decide I am interested.

[Aquamarine]

Dating apps can be stressful. Meeting a man you don’t know can be scary, they are often very forward and you feel like they’re trying to trick you into sleeping with them. (Even if it’s just crossed wires/ they’re a bit..immature). And sometimes you just feel really bad that you got someone’s hopes up, when you decide you don’t like them. My new plan is to do only casual first ‘dates’. Somewhere simple, not too much time together. I don’t even want to call it a date, until I decide I am interested.

I thought I was the only one who felt like this. The last date I ever went on the whole time I was suspicious that this guy was trying to get me to go home with him.

[Adam Strange]

I thought I was the only one who felt like this. The last date I ever went on the whole time I was suspicious that this guy was trying to get me to go home with him.

Taking you home is probably better than leaving you in an alley.

Really. He's on a date to presumably meet his life partner. Why in the world would he want to take you home? Hell, you might meet his family.


If I sound a little bitter, it's because I've dated or known some ESIs for years and never met their families.
I'm not dating them now.
Fuck 'em. I hope they find some nice SLI to marry who will be a pain in their ass forever.


I'm trying to remember if I ever made a list of the failed relationships THAT I'M AWARE OF that ESIs have or are in.
I think I left that around here somewhere.......

You know what I see? The ESI tells me "Oh, I met this great person and we're getting married." Two years later, their eyes are dead. Lol.

[Aquamarine]

Taking you home is probably better than leaving you in an alley.

Really. He's on a date to presumably meet his life partner. Why in the world would he want to take you home? Hell, you might meet his family.


If I sound a little bitter, it's because I've dated or known some ESIs for years and never met their families.
I'm not dating them now.
Fuck 'em. I hope they find some nice SLI to marry who will be a pain in their ass forever.

lol that does suck
Well I tend to not introduce people to my family either...
I want a clean break if the relationship ends, lol, at least that's what I think. But I probably wouldn't go years doing that.

I'm assuming the ESIs gave a reason for not doing that

[Adam Strange]

lol that does suck
Well I tend to not introduce people to my family either...
I want a clean break if the relationship ends, lol, at least that's what I think. But I probably wouldn't go years doing that.

I'm assuming the ESIs gave a reason for not doing that

No, none of the ESIs gave me a reason for doing that. They don't have to, because it's easy enough to see.


So, this hypothetical woman is out on a date with a guy she's been seeing for a while, and she says to him, "How come we only go out and go to bed? How come I've never met your family or any of your friends?"

It's because the guy isn't playing straight with her.

Wise up.

[Bethanyclaire]

I thought I was the only one who felt like this. The last date I ever went on the whole time I was suspicious that this guy was trying to get me to go home with him.

Hmm so it’s felt like this more recently.. now that I’m finding people who have more ‘potential’. Sometimes it’s innocent- ending up on more romantic style dates than is ideal, because plans are rushed through and the guy is trying to be nice but it’s just ends up feeling weirdly intense and makes you wanna ghost them after. Sometimes it’s an SLI/SLE and for whatever reason they just get it into their head you’re really into them. I think some people see romance as a bit of a game too? I just don’t like feeling rushed because it makes me feel like I can’t trust my feelings/instincts. It’s best for both people involved to be sure really.

[End]

Dating apps can be stressful. Meeting a man you don’t know can be scary, they are often very forward and you feel like they’re trying to trick you into sleeping with them. (Even if it’s just crossed wires/ they’re a bit..immature). And sometimes you just feel really bad that you got someone’s hopes up, when you decide you don’t like them. My new plan is to do only casual first ‘dates’. Somewhere simple, not too much time together. I don’t even want to call it a date, until I decide I am interested.

I thought I was the only one who felt like this. The last date I ever went on the whole time I was suspicious that this guy was trying to get me to go home with him.

Yet more confirmation of my theories. This is typical female thinking (in a good way) mixed with bad attachment. Like seeks like (i.e. the broken seek the broken) so the dudes you're meeting really are trying to get you to let them fuck you ASAP. This is what dudes with bad attachment go for because broken dudes see sex as an expression of acceptance and respect as well as fulfilling a physical need (dudes need sex, simple as). They are desperate for this but, like with most everything relating to bad attachment, they've gotten very good at lying to themselves and others as well as seeking out ways to get their needs met in all the wrong ways.

I've posted one of these vids elsewhere but it's relevant so I'll post it again. The second one is also relevant. Especially for the ladies:

[Bethanyclaire]

When you know someone’s type before you’ve even met them it’s also easy to get carried away with chatting..and you have to remember to..be cool. Play it cool, stay cool.

[Adam Strange]

When you know someone’s type before you’ve even met them it’s also easy to get carried away with chatting..and you have to remember to..be cool. Play it cool, stay cool.

I went on a date with a nice IEI from Match, not wishing to have her as a permanent mate, but rather as a possible friend and advisor, and to tell her that her best match would be an SLE.

After the third date, when she thought that I might not be trying to get into her pants, she told me "I'm good at sex. I'm really good at sex."

SMH. We Victims can be needy when it comes to being wanted.


@Bethany, a few years ago, when I was dating a French IEI and was getting nowhere because I'm not an SLE, she showed me a picture of some white-tailed deer that she took from her kitchen window.
Little brown deer with little white tails, looking over their shoulders at the camera. Didn't I want to chase them? Hmmmm? Chase them, Adam. They want to be chased by a big, strong, dominating tiger.

[Bethanyclaire]

@Adam Strange yeah I will be glad when I don't have to do any more first dates. Knowing socionics makes it easier but also more weird. Like, I don't go on any dates with people who are't good ITR but then that means there is often some sort of chemistry even if you don't like them.

Umm the SLE I'm talking to is a bit tiger-ish.

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange yeah I will be glad when I don't have to do any more first dates. Knowing socionics makes it easier but also more weird. Like, I don't go any dates with people who are't good ITR but then that means there is often some sort of chemistry even if you don't like them.

Umm the SLE I'm talking to is a bit tiger-ish.

Yes, @Bethany. I don't go on "dates" with non-ESI types unless they understand that I'm not there to date them, but rather to just enjoy their company. And Yes, I like a lot of the women I go out with. There's a LOT of chemistry between us, but I'm not living my life like an ignorant animal anymore.

Have you seen Zootopia? Its an LIE-ESI (fox and bunny) movie, but Giselle is IEI and the tigers are SLE-Se and the Water Buffalo is SLE-Ti.

[Bethanyclaire]

Yes, @Bethany. I don't go on "dates" with non-ESI types unless they understand that I'm not there to date them, but rather to just enjoy their company. And Yes, I like a lot of the women I go out with. There's a LOT of chemistry between us, but I'm not living my life like an ignorant animal anymore.

Have you seen Zootopia? Its an LIE-ESI (fox and bunny) movie, but Giselle is IEI and the tigers are SLE-Se and the Water Buffalo is SLE-Ti.

I see, I see. You want to be a clever fox Fox and the Hound was another good movie too, my SEE brother liked that one.

Hm I've only really started taking dating seriously in the last few months. If I liked someone, I'd find it hard not to give it a go. I mean if it felt right.

Glad you have some nice dates

[The Banana King]

Today I went on a date with a girl I met on the internet. She looked chubby in her profile pic so I wasn't expecting much but actually she was really cute and in shape. From my interactions with her online, her profile pic and her ample use of emojis I typed her as ESE. But upon further inspection I'm suspecting she may be SEI-Fe. The last time I was my usual lecherous ILE self in a first date it backfired, so I decided to go for a more "gentleman" attitude like LII. Anyways she suggested I take her to my place so she could "give me a massage" and I declined because I am mega retarded and took the gentleman act too far and also because I still live with my mom. Now she won't reply to my texts anymore. Wut do?

[Baqer]

Today I went on a date with a girl I met on the internet. She looked chubby in her profile pic so I wasn't expecting much but actually she was really cute and in shape. From my interactions with her online, her profile pic and her ample use of emojis I typed her as ESE. But upon further inspection I'm suspecting she may be SEI-Fe. The last time I was my usual lecherous ILE self in a first date it backfired, so I decided to go for a more "gentleman" attitude like LII. Anyways she suggested I take her to my place so she could "give me a massage" and I declined because I am mega retarded and took the gentleman act too far and also because I still live with my mom. Now she won't reply to my texts anymore. Wut do?

Get a time machine or find a new SEI-Fe. Either way try again.

[The Banana King]

Get a time machine or find a new SEI-Fe. Either way try again.

Instructions unclear. Got dick stuck in time machine

[Adam Strange]

Today I went on a date with a girl I met on the internet. She looked chubby in her profile pic so I wasn't expecting much but actually she was really cute and in shape. From my interactions with her online, her profile pic and her ample use of emojis I typed her as ESE. But upon further inspection I'm suspecting she may be SEI-Fe. The last time I was my usual lecherous ILE self in a first date it backfired, so I decided to go for a more "gentleman" attitude like LII. Anyways she suggested I take her to my place so she could "give me a massage" and I declined because I am mega retarded and took the gentleman act too far and also because I still live with my mom. Now she won't reply to my texts anymore. Wut do?

In this order,

1.) Stop living with your mom, otherwise known as “Get your own place.”
2.) Keep dating.

This last female may or may not be lost to you, but you need to keep trying. Without a woman in their lives, male NT’s tend to look bizarre and scarily eccentric, and ILEs are the worst.

Single LIIs simply vanish from society, ILIs get into guns and paranoia, and LIEs descend into depression and inaction, but ILEs end up living alone in a trailer on the edge of town, repairing typewriters or some equally eccentric and unprofitable way of making the rent payment.
So get that female Dual.

*EDIT*
I am by no means an expert on Alpha SF females, but I’ve had a lot of experience dating and just talking to people, and my impression of Alpha SF women (which is probably wrong in detail but is just my impression) is that they are social, sensing feelers in an NT world and hence are driven to form stable relationships but have been told by society that they suck at everything. This makes them want to connect but sensitive to criticism and rejection.

So, your first priority has to be to accept and like them, and not
1. ignore them.
2. reject them in the slightest way.
3. Try to tell them that you are really a super-genius and they aren’t very smart and the fact that you’re living with your mom is just your way of keeping your true identity secret from the Galactic Overlords who will need to eliminate YOU if they are ever going to conquer Earth.
4. Criticize them IN ANY WAY because you’re feeling insecure that day and they don’t fight back, they just leave.
5. Fail to tell them that you like them in a truthful way, because they can tell what you really mean better than you, yourself, know. So don’t lie.

Anyway, good luck. Dating gets easier with practice and as we become less defensive and more fun to be around.

[The Banana King]

In this order,

1.) Stop living with your mom, otherwise known as “Get your own place.”
2.) Keep dating.

This last female may or may not be lost to you, but you need to keep trying. Without a woman in their lives, male NT’s tend to look bizarre and scarily eccentric, and ILEs are the worst.

Single LIIs simply vanish from society, ILIs get into guns and paranoia, and LIEs descend into depression and inaction, but ILEs end up living alone in a trailer on the edge of town, repairing typewriters or some equally eccentric and unprofitable way of making the rent payment.
So get that female Dual.

*EDIT*
I am by no means an expert on Alpha SF females, but I’ve had a lot of experience dating and just talking to people, and my impression of Alpha SF women (which is probably wrong in detail but is just my impression) is that they are social, sensing feelers in an NT world and hence are driven to form stable relationships but have been told by society that they suck at everything. This makes them want to connect but sensitive to criticism and rejection.

So, your first priority has to be to accept and like them, and not
1. ignore them.
2. reject them in the slightest way.
3. Try to tell them that you are really a super-genius and they aren’t very smart and the fact that you’re living with your mom is just your way of keeping your true identity secret from the Galactic Overlords who will need to eliminate YOU if they are ever going to conquer Earth.
4. Criticize them IN ANY WAY because you’re feeling insecure that day and they don’t fight back, they just leave.
5. Fail to tell them that you like them in a truthful way, because they can tell what you really mean better than you, yourself, know. So don’t lie.

Anyway, good luck. Dating gets easier with practice and as we become less defensive and more fun to be around.

This is great advice, thanks Adam Although it's not possible for me to stop living with mum because rent is too expensive for both of us. Might take me a few years until I can get a job that pays enough to support her while I get my own place.

It sounds a bit dramatic coming from an sx-first but as another sx-first I can relate very much. Loneliness drives me nuts and although I don't think relationships are the solution to all my problems, I do feel more energetic and "purpose" in life when I am with someone.

I guess I'll try to be more honest with SEI from now on. I think I am accepting enough, but I am afraid of not being accepted so I end up putting an act without realizing...

By the way, she talked to me again and now we're gonna meet again next weekend lol. By sheer number of smiley and lovey emojis I guess she isn't upset after all. All's well that ends well.

[Adam Strange]

This is great advice, thanks Adam Although it's not possible for me to stop living with mum because rent is too expensive for both of us. Might take me a few years until I can get a job that pays enough to support her while I get my own place.

It sounds a bit dramatic coming from an sx-first but as another sx-first I can relate very much. Loneliness drives me nuts and although I don't think relationships are the solution to all my problems, I do feel more energetic and "purpose" in life when I am with someone.

I guess I'll try to be more honest with SEI from now on. I think I am accepting enough, but I am afraid of not being accepted so I end up putting an act without realizing...

By the way, she talked to me again and now we're gonna meet again next weekend lol. By sheer number of smiley and lovey emojis I guess she isn't upset after all. All's well that ends well.

@The Banana King, my advice was tailored for you (ILE). You really need your own place, and the sooner you can get it, the better for everyone.

I’m glad she came back. To be honest, I thought there was a good possibility of that.

Also, I’d take it slow if I were you, but not glacially slow. Some women hide the “crazy” pretty well and it can take some time to see it, but everything happens at a certain pace, and if you delay too long, you will miss your flight.

Maybe the best thing to come out of this so far is that you realize that you have to be yourself. A true Dual NEEDS you to be yourself, because your being anyone else only makes you worse.

Good luck!

[End]

This is great advice, thanks Adam Although it's not possible for me to stop living with mum because rent is too expensive for both of us. Might take me a few years until I can get a job that pays enough to support her while I get my own place.

It sounds a bit dramatic coming from an sx-first but as another sx-first I can relate very much. Loneliness drives me nuts and although I don't think relationships are the solution to all my problems, I do feel more energetic and "purpose" in life when I am with someone.

I guess I'll try to be more honest with SEI from now on. I think I am accepting enough, but I am afraid of not being accepted so I end up putting an act without realizing...

By the way, she talked to me again and now we're gonna meet again next weekend lol. By sheer number of smiley and lovey emojis I guess she isn't upset after all. All's well that ends well.

I mentioned it in my reply to @Adam Strange but have you and your mom considered the benefits of hardcore minimalist living? Assuming she's otherwise healthy and able to take care of herself (e.g. she can drive a car herself at least during the day and is able to walk around without too much aid) she can execute on getting a Vanabode for herself and likely be quite happy with that circumstance.

Hell, you can get one too and travel about as a pair taking care of each other without that damnable rent payment to worry about. Sell off the superfluous shit you "own" (protip: you don't actually own most of what you think you do or at least, you don't own the "big" items you think you do like, say, land or a house), cash in anything that you can that isn't Precious Metals (because the shit's about to hit the fan and lemme tell ya you'll want every ounce you can muster to barter with), acquire a PO box/negotiate a deal with a family member/close friend who has a street address/learn how "general delivery" works (if you're a US citizen who lives in the US) so you can still get snail mail and order shit off the net, and then tell your landlord the magic words every Gamma/Real American dreams of telling anyone who thought they had absolute control over them as you start up the van and drive off into the sunset with a mirth matched only by the most pure and innocent of children as they play with their favorite toy. Fuck You!

Hell, random thought, perhaps the ideal future will consist of extended families who went this route forming "caravans" and the like. Fun idea .

Getting more specific than this (and thus further customizing a solution to your given problems) requires me to ask you very personal questions that I won't ask in public. I've learned about tact (and how I tend to lack it) the hard way.

And then the last bit I always mention nowadays. If you have attachment issues (and you and your potential wife likely do), fix em'. If not for yourself, than for her. She wants/needs a man who is capable of truly bonding with and providing her with emotional intimacy. Women of all types crave that (hell, men do as well let's be honest). The worst examples of any type are that because they're broken to the point of being lost in that regard. Far as I can tell you aren't, I ain't, and most everyone here isn't as well.

Many are demonically obsessed, but the outright possessed and subjugated don't seem to be a major issue here. Yet another aside but a positive one regardless.

[Armitage]

Although it's not possible for me to stop living with mum because rent is too expensive for both of us. Might take me a few years until I can get a job that pays enough to support her while I get my own place.

At the risk of kicking at an open door, would it be an option to counter-propose to meet up at her place instead, when she proposes going to yours? If you do it smoothly enough, she might not even notice, and if she does ask further questions you simply have to tell her honestly. Nothing is as bad for any relationship as lying, regardless of sociotype.

Also, I agree with what Adam is saying, your love/dual should love you for who you are. Here on the forum you seem like a nice guy, so I wouldn't worry as much about how you come across, besides good manners ( which I think you already nailed down by default ;^) . Otherwise all the self-consciousness only distracts from getting onto the same wavelength with your love/dual and into the flow together.

[The Banana King]

At the risk of kicking in open doors, would it be an option to counter-propose to meet up at her place instead, when she proposes going to yours? If you do it smoothly enough, she might not even notice, and if she does ask further questions you simply have to tell her honestly. Nothing is as bad for any relationship as lying, regardless of sociotype.

Also, I agree with what Adam is saying, your love/dual should love you for who you are. Here on the forum you seem like a nice guy, so I wouldn't worry as much about how you come across, besides good manners ( which I think you already nailed down by default ;^) . Otherwise all the self-consciousness only distracts from getting onto the same wavelength with your love/dual and into the flow together.

Thanks for the advice! Her house is no-go, apparently it's a sharehouse and no dudes allowed lol. But now I just bring her over to my place when my mum goes out so it's fine.

Well, it's been a while since my last update, basically I'm dating the SEI now and already making plans to live together lol. For the first time ever in my life I'm in a dual relationship. Holy shit, it really is everything it's hyped up to be and much, much more. I mean obviously we're in the honeymoon phase right now but it's just so much more intense than anything I've experienced. I never met a woman that actually likes some of my childish idiosyncrasies. First time ever I feel genuinely appreciated and that the other party doesn't try to change who I am. Also I feel AMAZING like I got so much energy and willpower now lol. I'm seriously considering retyping as VLEF.
She says she hates cooking and sucks at it but every time we meet she gives me some homemade pie or snacks

After so much interaction, I've narrowed down her type to SEI-Fe, so/sp, FExx. The so/sp (vs my sx/sp) is a source of disagreement sometimes. She doeesn't understand why I'm so obsessive sometimes lol. But she doesn't really mind it. To me, it seems she prioritizes spending time with friends instead of together. The Psyche Yoga mismatch is barely noticeable. She's definitely 2E so I don't feel it on my 3rd.

[MissDucki]

In this order,

1.) Stop living with your mom, otherwise known as “Get your own place.”
2.) Keep dating.

This last female may or may not be lost to you, but you need to keep trying. Without a woman in their lives, male NT’s tend to look bizarre and scarily eccentric, and ILEs are the worst.

Single LIIs simply vanish from society, ILIs get into guns and paranoia, and LIEs descend into depression and inaction, but ILEs end up living alone in a trailer on the edge of town, repairing typewriters or some equally eccentric and unprofitable way of making the rent payment.
So get that female Dual.

*EDIT*
I am by no means an expert on Alpha SF females, but I’ve had a lot of experience dating and just talking to people, and my impression of Alpha SF women (which is probably wrong in detail but is just my impression) is that they are social, sensing feelers in an NT world and hence are driven to form stable relationships but have been told by society that they suck at everything. This makes them want to connect but sensitive to criticism and rejection.

So, your first priority has to be to accept and like them, and not
1. ignore them.
2. reject them in the slightest way.
3. Try to tell them that you are really a super-genius and they aren’t very smart and the fact that you’re living with your mom is just your way of keeping your true identity secret from the Galactic Overlords who will need to eliminate YOU if they are ever going to conquer Earth.
4. Criticize them IN ANY WAY because you’re feeling insecure that day and they don’t fight back, they just leave.
5. Fail to tell them that you like them in a truthful way, because they can tell what you really mean better than you, yourself, know. So don’t lie.

Anyway, good luck. Dating gets easier with practice and as we become less defensive and more fun to be around.

@Adam Strange

For Alpha SF’s coming from their conflicting quadra….this is really solid advice. You know your conflictor much better then their own dual lmao!

But in all seriousness, I agree with it. Especially about the criticism aspect. That and knowing what they mean behind their words generally….relationship skills come in handy in this aspect.

Anyways….always love your input!

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange

For Alpha SF’s coming from their conflicting quadra….this is really solid advice. You know your conflictor much better then their own dual lmao!

But in all seriousness, I agree with it. Especially about the criticism aspect. That and knowing what they mean behind their words generally….relationship skills come in handy in this aspect.

Anyways….always love your input!

Thanks, @MissDucki. You've taught me a lot.

Honestly, I've worked with an ILE and an SEI for almost ten years, but it was the candid conversations on this forum that taught me the most.

[Aquamarine]

Today I went on a date with a girl I met on the internet. She looked chubby in her profile pic so I wasn't expecting much but actually she was really cute and in shape. From my interactions with her online, her profile pic and her ample use of emojis I typed her as ESE. But upon further inspection I'm suspecting she may be SEI-Fe. The last time I was my usual lecherous ILE self in a first date it backfired, so I decided to go for a more "gentleman" attitude like LII. Anyways she suggested I take her to my place so she could "give me a massage" and I declined because I am mega retarded and took the gentleman act too far and also because I still live with my mom. Now she won't reply to my texts anymore. Wut do?

Forget her. That's the only thing you can do.

[MissDucki]

Today I went on a date with a girl I met on the internet. She looked chubby in her profile pic so I wasn't expecting much but actually she was really cute and in shape. From my interactions with her online, her profile pic and her ample use of emojis I typed her as ESE. But upon further inspection I'm suspecting she may be SEI-Fe. The last time I was my usual lecherous ILE self in a first date it backfired, so I decided to go for a more "gentleman" attitude like LII. Anyways she suggested I take her to my place so she could "give me a massage" and I declined because I am mega retarded and took the gentleman act too far and also because I still live with my mom. Now she won't reply to my texts anymore. Wut do?

She seemed to only want the banana.....Not a bad thing if you too wish to have made a wonderful banana bread! (bad puns I know....) Forget her and find another wonderful girl that is a better match! Keep putting yourself out there buddy boy!

[Great]

Today I went on a date with a girl I met on the internet. She looked chubby in her profile pic so I wasn't expecting much but actually she was really cute and in shape. From my interactions with her online, her profile pic and her ample use of emojis I typed her as ESE. But upon further inspection I'm suspecting she may be SEI-Fe. The last time I was my usual lecherous ILE self in a first date it backfired, so I decided to go for a more "gentleman" attitude like LII. Anyways she suggested I take her to my place so she could "give me a massage" and I declined because I am mega retarded and took the gentleman act too far and also because I still live with my mom. Now she won't reply to my texts anymore. Wut do?

I've done this before.

[Adam Strange]

I've done this before.

I went to a party about four years ago and ended up talking to this woman for an hour or two in an upstairs bedroom. She said she was a massage therapist and she’d love to give me a massage sometime. I was flattered but she was SLE and so I told her thanks, but massages really do nothing for me.

I am not (usually) mega-retarded, but I am Si-PoLR and not desperate.

[Great]

I went to a party about four years ago and ended up talking to this woman for an hour or two in an upstairs bedroom. She said she was a massage therapist and she’d love to give me a massage sometime. I was flattered but she was SLE and so I told her thanks, but massages really do nothing for me.

I am not (usually) mega-retarded, but I am Si-PoLR and not desperate.

This was before I learned of socionics. She was also SLE. I kinda regret not massaging her.

[Adam Strange]

This was before I learned of socionics. She was also SLE. I kinda regret not massaging her.

I know an ESI who dated an SLE for a while. It didn’t turn out well.

Sometimes, the One Who Got Away should have gotten away.

And even though SLE females are Aggressors to my Victim, I’ve never been sexually attracted to one.

[Adam Strange]

I’m always surprised at how good I feel about myself, and the world in general, after having spent a few hours, even platonically, with a Dual.

[End]

In this order,

1.) Stop living with your mom, otherwise known as “Get your own place.”
2.) Keep dating.

This last female may or may not be lost to you, but you need to keep trying. Without a woman in their lives, male NT’s tend to look bizarre and scarily eccentric, and ILEs are the worst.

Single LIIs simply vanish from society, ILIs get into guns and paranoia, and LIEs descend into depression and inaction, but ILEs end up living alone in a trailer on the edge of town, repairing typewriters or some equally eccentric and unprofitable way of making the rent payment.
So get that female Dual.

*EDIT*
I am by no means an expert on Alpha SF females, but I’ve had a lot of experience dating and just talking to people, and my impression of Alpha SF women (which is probably wrong in detail but is just my impression) is that they are social, sensing feelers in an NT world and hence are driven to form stable relationships but have been told by society that they suck at everything. This makes them want to connect but sensitive to criticism and rejection.

So, your first priority has to be to accept and like them, and not
1. ignore them.
2. reject them in the slightest way.
3. Try to tell them that you are really a super-genius and they aren’t very smart and the fact that you’re living with your mom is just your way of keeping your true identity secret from the Galactic Overlords who will need to eliminate YOU if they are ever going to conquer Earth.
4. Criticize them IN ANY WAY because you’re feeling insecure that day and they don’t fight back, they just leave.
5. Fail to tell them that you like them in a truthful way, because they can tell what you really mean better than you, yourself, know. So don’t lie.

Anyway, good luck. Dating gets easier with practice and as we become less defensive and more fun to be around.

I generally agree with your advice and much of your perspectives @Adam Strange, but here I'm going to have to disagree with you with a slight degree of vehemence. I'd invert your initial advice. That is, I'd put "keep dating" first and "getting your own place" second. With a caveat that getting one's "own place" is a matter of perspective and from mine you can have it for peanuts. Side note: I've almost accumulated enough of those to get mine going and am about to start dating seriously (I.e. Dual/Wife seeking) for once in my life. Still betting on the assertive SEE tomboy loving bully end because my tells me that's my fate. Again, not my "perfect" end but an end I can live with and accept. Never let the perfect become the enemy of the good after all.

You are right about ILI's like me, guns and paranoia is the game plan if we think we're utterly fucked and never land a dual in our social circles. I lucked out and got my SEE bro but that's a rabbit hole I'd rather pursue elsewhere.

There is a sliver of truth to be found in that mindset however. Minimalist living executed to a perfection only an introvert with is capable of that is fully mobile in all the ways that'd matter is a thing you can and should do if able and you can make it work no matter how fucked up your finances are relatively speaking once you've "primed the pump" as it were. That is, once you've acquired the basic level of money/resources to make the relevant purchases you're a free man who can potentially be free of any obligations others try to force upon you as you have hacked the system. Any Gamma worth their status as one knows of the concept of "Fuck You" money. Well, turns out it's way, way, easier to get to that zenith of achievement than ya think!

The book (whose author is the IRL version of "The Dude" in the looks department) that spelled that out for me was "Vanabode: Travel and Live Forever on 20$ a Day". A properly constructed Vanabode is a place of one's own I'd argue. Fully mobile. Easily attainable (relatively speaking). And will keep you alive for peanuts a day once attained. A bit of gas in the winter, a shady parking spot in the summer, and just living/grocery shopping in a low cost of living area like rural America. 20-30 bucks or so a day once all the initial purchases have been made.

As for that last line, well, attachment. All types get less defensive and more fun to be around in proportion to how well they have resolved their attachment issues. To give a recent example of some random thought I had. Assume the existence of a naive SEE who lacks most any attachment issues somehow. She will come up with a "great" solution to a problem, but she will also utterly fail to realize both how/why that solution works so well and how/why it was/is also suicidality reckless when executed as a solo entity (i.e. by themselves).

Poor dumb girl is living in an ideal world where good men rebuke her and bad men try to take advantage of her so obviously it hurts. However, she somehow gets that and ends up standing up several PUA's and other desperate victim types who were all to ready to have an ONS with her. Her filter is accurate, but it is also putting her own chastity and life in danger because of how she's just brute forcing a solution to a problem far more nuanced than she's likely to consider.

The issues are mirrored as it were. Male NT's can get rather creepy and eccentric if they fail to meet their dual. What about the Female SF's? I can imagine a great deal of male repelling crazy that could potentially emanate from them. A crazy that is only amplified in the most tragic sense by attachment issues...

[Armitage]

NT's can get rather creepy and eccentric if they fail to meet their dual. What about the SF's? I can imagine a great deal of male repelling crazy that could potentially emanate from them. A crazy that is only amplified in the most tragic sense by attachment issues...

This feels like quite the cliffhanger you left me in, because this is rather interesting. Care to elaborate with some examples, please?


Regarding dating, by the way, does anyone have an idea on how to apologize to an ESI, who's feelings one unintentionally hurt? LIEs like myself can be quite clumsy with feelings, after all.

[End]

This feels like quite the cliffhanger you left me in, because this is rather interesting. Care to elaborate with some examples, please?


Regarding dating, by the way, does anyone have an idea on how to apologize to an ESI, who's feelings one unintentionally hurt? LIEs like myself can be quite clumsy with feelings, after all.

That's gonna involve attachment. Like I keep saying, that's the main concern in regards to interpersonal relationships and that goes double for romantic ones. You gotta just fess up and honestly apologize. If she gets that you're being honest and earnestly seeking to connect with her she'll understand and actually thank you for that. You're likely the first person she's met to do so.

Now, if she's broken you're gonna find out pretty quick as that honest and earnest apology won't be enough for her. Not really. She might put up a front for a second or two but that's just the impulse to bully their lover a bit. We ain't called "victims" for nothing. Us liking it and not fighting against it is likewise a point of attraction from their end. Provided, of course, that they ain't going overboard.

If she is I'd bring up attachment and walk her through it. If she wants to overcome it and is open to that possibility she's worth keeping around and helping. If she calls you a crazy nutter or something like that and doesn't break down after a day or two ( doms love to bully and issue hardcore shit tests after all) than she's probably "lost" and you're better off trying your luck with someone else.

[Adam Strange]

When I was in my twenties, I had no experience with women and had Gamma NT sensibilities, which basically means I was closer to being a kitchen timer than I was to being a human.
But I really wanted to have sex with a woman. Preferably with lots of women, so I approached women with that goal uppermost in mind.

The surprising thing was, I actually started getting laid. The unsurprising thing was, the women who were sleeping with me were all crazier or more destructive than I was.

[End]

When I was in my twenties, I had no experience with women and had Gamma NT sensibilities, which basically means I was closer to being a kitchen timer than I was to being a human.
But I really wanted to have sex with a woman. Preferably with lots of women, so I approached women with that goal uppermost in mind.

The surprising thing was, I actually started getting laid. The unsurprising thing was, the women who were sleeping with me were all crazier or more destructive than I was.

Hahaha! Exactly as my theories predicted! Yet only now do I get exactly why and now actually pity both ends of that tragic equation.

Again, attachment, like seeks like, and how/why women "use" it and men "seek" it and how that really fucks them up and sets up a viscous cycle everyone thinks they can never escape from once they've been caught up in the spiral. The longer they've been in that spiral the deeper their despair. After all, if you've been a slut/manwhore for 20+ years how would/could any "Good" partner ever accept/love you?

I guess I was lucky in regards to my given faith. I don't know about other faiths, but I was raised as a Christian and Christianity teaches that no sin is beyond God's ability to forgive. Even if it was on your deathbed, if you really, truly repent of your sins he will accept that and allow you into paradise. For men it is impossible, but in God all is possible...

Also, spot on in regards to Male NT's becoming what amounts to robots if someone/something doesn't interfere. Code/Keyboard Monkeys are male NT's by and large. It's an easy role to fall into if the pay is good enough. Difference is Gamma NT's are likely to be deliberately exploiting their employer and/or sabotaging said employer's attempts to get them to train their replacements whereas Alpha NT's might not catch on or, if they do, do an even better job at sabotage than the Gammas. I will always give credit where it's due and if some Alpha alpha fucks over the PTB far better than I could I have only one response. A heartfelt thank you and a salute.