"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
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"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
.
.
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time to feel obligated to act the way they want u to off their shitty presumptions or throw their expectations out the window so they start seething about how u are covert mousey and manipulative. this is my personal experience. it was actually described in "please understand me" that NFs treat others well but this is taken by others as if the NF likes them in particular bc most ppl are just shitty and dont know how to be nice.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
This was my exact experience. I hung around guys way too different from me and I didn't fit in with them, it was an EIE who pulled me to the side and made me realize there's nothing wrong with me I don't have to fit in with those guys, we became like brothers. But we actually got too close and problems started to arise, and now we are like distant brothers, still brothers though.
And I think SEI/SEE is common.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 09-12-2022 at 04:29 AM.
“Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
— James Russell Lowell猫が生き甲斐
Maybe EIE/EII doesn’t work as well as IEE/IEI. I read on here that EIE get bored of people…but maybe in the end they realise who their true friends are. My IEE friends are like family too, I had a much closer IEE friend but we had a big fall out. (Def not perfect..) My closest friends used to be IEE/ILI/SLI but the closeness made it difficult to remain friends with them. I didn’t like that they knew me so well, when I wanted to escape my past. If things had been more normal, perhaps I would have naturally put up some boundaries without feeling a need to end things. Also had an EII friend which feels even more complicated lol. Sometimes I marvel that I’ve managed to make new friends..
ESE/SEI seems common too.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 09-12-2022 at 07:31 AM.
Had a Tinder date yesterday. Was exciting because has been a month since I met somebody new from Tinder. Her profile picture seemed introverted and serious, and in her messages she seemed nice and polite. Talked about ordinary stuff, like that we live close to each other, and what she has been doing with her son. Maybe SEI or even SLI?? Worst case scenario: LSE? We decided to go for a walk. She immediately recognized me. She was all Fe and surprisingly extraverted: " Hi! Nice to meet you, shall we kiss on the cheek like the French? (kiss) (kiss)". Very nice and sort of down to earth. Not snobbish at all. I knew she is Russian but her grandmother was Karelian. She speaks Finnish fluently, but with an accent (I noticed that the second we met). The first minutes are always interesting, types running trough my head. I settled for EJ for the time being. But didn't take long for me to get enough data to finalize her as EIE. Maybe C or N, not so easy to tell. And, she is a teacher (how original for an EIE, lol). I felt her Fe was a little too much, though. She's really nice, but I felt the amount of Fe made me feel uncomfortable. We talked almost all the time because of her high energy. I didn't feel that we are compatible, like I feel with some ESEs.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
You SEI and she EIE --> exactly same as my parents .. My Dad SEI and Mom EIE. It can work but with careful wise supervision to her. My Dad made it bad for my Mom, and therefore her to me not great at all but one interaction in my elementary years that was my only good memory of her and me together.
Bottom Line is, relationships all take work so ... go forth and conquer!
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
So you are sure your parents are supervisors? I know of one couple but they divorced. My parents are business LSI+ESI and they had LOTS of friction and bad communication over the years.
Problem with supervision: how do you get psychologically more intimate? The bad impact is always there and the supervisee is going to feel slightly inferior although she does not know why. Now when I met the EIE I was the one to feel inferior or slightly uncomfortable but this was only on the surface. If we would break the ice things would change. I know EIEs are uncomfortable around me, and it's strange becsuse I am so simple and they seem more advanced. But I also dont like the somewhat superior attitude it creates in me. It comes after some time with them. Because I am so relaxed and they are not.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Yes, I am sure. They are both dead now, so I can't actually talk to them or anything. It was a very weird household. My mother got more neurotic as time went on. I was the last child, of 5. Basically my Dad didn't support my Mother's needs, and that, or lack of, with supervision, broke her.
SEI are Alpha, EIE are Beta.
EIE have an aristocracy thing about them.
I can't really say what it feels like to be SEI supervisor to EIE
I can say how I feel when LSE is talking to my husband on speaker phone, I feel compelled to listen and want to tell him a thing or two that isn't so, to that LSE (but I don't do that.) It's an innate feeling I always had hearing his calls, and finally seeing his actual physical self in a zoom call this year, I was so excited, he was obviously LSE and no wonder he was driving me up a wall for no really good reason.
Hope that makes sense.
My supervising LSE is then you being supervised by LSE hahaha.
I am spawned from an LSE mother so here's what I've figured out in regards to having for years and for minutes where she has that for days and for seconds. Humility, understanding, and a refusal to give into that most primordial of sins. Pride.
Oh yeah, in moments of weakness and hunger (i.e. when I'm rather hangry) I admit I tear into her and I immediately regret it and apologize rightfully soon after. I mean, how the hell can a woman who is otherwise more than capable of understanding how things work logically and efficiently (i.e. has for years/weeks) not understand where it all leads when it's so obvious!
Then there's the conflict between the fundamental worldviews to deal with. Supervisor relationships conflict on the Democratic/Aristocratic axis. The LSE puts way too much emphasis on credentials and official sources in my mind. She's way less willing to give some rando a chance if he insists he can do X than I am.
I'd just test the rando on some insider lingo and if he/she instantly got it they'd get a chance. After all, if you can already "talk shop" with someone you're either dealing with someone who knows what they're doing or a once in a century acting talent. Both are good and if the acting talent survives the trial somehow you've still gotten out ahead if ya know how to play that somehow.
This is blasphemy to her. Obviously if they were qualified they'd have the paperwork already organized or have some sort of official and accepted credential labeling them as being capable of the task. Frustration!
Still, like I keep pointing out the key to fixing any interpersonal relationship is fixing your attachment. As I've done so over the past year I've found that I've been savaging her less and actually coming to a logical and harmonious accord more frequently. When either she or I snap I can more often catch that, ask a better question as to the how and why over just going nuclear and attacking them somehow, and then de-escalate the whole situation.
If someone you care about snaps at you it's rarely for the reason you think or that they will tell you if asked. It wasn't that you forgot X at the grocery store, it was what they felt/perceived/was implied and that is why they're going off. It was their frustrated tone of voice for no good reason from my end that set me off. It was my patently obvious annoyance that they overlooked something utterly obvious to me that set them off. Why did we do that? Well, once we honestly lay out what happened from our ends it becomes obvious. A thing we can come to a mutual understanding over.
This is hard to do in the moment in regards to people who are involved in the more negative relationships. Still, even belated "good" interactions are better than reflexive negative and/or consciously shut down ones...
This makes sense dual-wise now, EII helps LSE see where things will lead if they don't ever consider their Fi self interests. Which means they usually burn themselves tf out helping out everyone else around them, which I've seen before "I Help everyone until I have nothing left and then no one helps me" EII: "I could have told you that hours ago before you got a hissy fit."
You know what my ILE roommate told me after I told him he drives me nuts, "Yea but like, being around you helps me be a better person.". What? Me constantly telling him he's a nut job with a sadistic streak? It felt like he was getting some benefit at my expense, like he thought I was being paid to put up with him.
I think we want from our supervisors what someone who has daddy issues wants from their dad, for them to some how say they are proud of us when using our PoLR.
I am really close to an ILI - my supervisee. I had to put my ego in check and not get frustrated with what I saw as his “passivity” in terms of dealing with people. Over the past few years, he’s taught me the value of how he sees people and processes things.
Saying that, it was super awkward dating each other. I wanted someone who was more assertive and he wanted someone more free-spirited.
Maybe that's what happens at least consciously. But supervision is always there as an unconscious background mood. I dislike that vague sense of discomfort, as if something was eating me from the inside. That's how I experience supervision from LSE, and it doesnt matter what they say or do. Sometimes I am not that aware of it but it's alwsys present like a vague illness or black magic.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
A long time ago I remember meeting a guy in a meet-ups group I regularly attended. He was a vet and we had a brief friendship. He told me how he was getting over someone- he met them on holiday and got married but it didn’t work out. He was at this point in his mid- thirties and really wanted to find someone- I think we both were curious about each other. But I had a crush on an ILI guy at the time. The vet guy was Estp-ti. I don’t think we were a great match but he was a nice guy and had quite a soft manner about him. I think he may be with an IEI lady now.
Recently I have started talking to someone and they seem pretty cool and they seem Estp-ti. It’s kind of nerve-wracking. Like when you have a crush on someone. With the added weirdness of knowing their type. And when it comes to duals that’s not always a good thing.
I think I need to just be positive, and think of it as a fun experience- whatever happens or doesn’t happen. I have other chats in the background too.
I have support from my IEE buddies, who can be quite good at dating advice.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 09-17-2022 at 09:08 AM.
I guess this must be a thing about duality that supervision utterly fails to naturally account for. I fully and painfully understand her desire to help everyone else out over/other than ourselves for I share it! I derisively have called her a "Worker Bee" on many an occasion for many a reason. Mainly because Worker Bee's are abject mindslaves to their queens who'd gladly work themselves to death on a given task without question and you know damn good and well I'd rather die a slow and most painful death than see either myself or those I care about meet that fate. Nothing horrifies a Gamma more than being totally enslaved to an alien will diametrically opposed to their own desires on the cellular level.
I don't know enough about how Delta's function other than they tend to take their side to a logically absurd end point. Patton (an SLI by most who reckon) was as critically weak at as I am but he was uniquely cruel and hard-headed when he ought not to have been. I otherwise agree with those of that type's conclusions when I encounter them in both history, RL, and fiction. Yet there is something they tend to miss. Their solutions work and they are pretty damned effective, but as they lack and thus fail to see how it all ends if they adopt an extreme view and follow through on it to the very end. They can and do absolutely win the battle, but they lose the overall war if enough time is allowed to elapse.
Hell, I think this might be a critical insight into the Delta mind. and meet with and to generate a singular solution. There was and is only one way, their way. Works to be sure, but damn it they are blind to how things could and probably should be done better...
Tinder is not looking good. There aren’t very many ESIs at all, and 85% of the people in my age group look like walruses or serial killers.
Marry young, people, before all the good ones are gone.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
idk who tf said duality ain't real. I need to stop talking to this LSE woman, too old for me and prolly got a buncha kids.
You don't have to marry her, although I will say that talking to her will reduce your need to find a more "suitable" Dual.
I can tell you that Duality simply does not see age, but other people do.
When I'm out shopping for home improvements with my ESI-Se interior decorator, absolutely everyone
1. thinks we're "together", and
2. disapproves of our age difference.
Lol. Well, I say, Fuck them. Duality is not something that you give up because some ignoramus thinks you don't conform to their prejudices.
My problem isn't that she's much younger than I am. My problem is that she is a lesbian and doesn't want kids. That's something that I can't change.
You can be great Duals and not great life partners.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-22-2022 at 11:59 PM.
I could have told you that one years ago. Now I have the dataset to identify the exact reasons as to why. For starters (as we'll start with the order of my epiphanies) it's clearly all about casual sexual encounters. Tinder is a glorified porno site. Only instead of fapping to some vid you actually are the participant that made said vid. ONS's. That's what Tinder is for. PUA's focused on it hardcore back then because hey, why not threaten them with a good time!
Now for the hypothetical. What if ya wanted to find a wife/SO there? Well, ya could build a profile that'll likely filter for them but that'd ultimately be the equivalent of trying to make a ho into a housewife. Yeah, can happen, but it probably won't. Ya might have been able to make it work a few years ago but those people have already found each other and gotten married. Only Road Whores and slovenly pedo-bearded failures of men remain. I had all the shards of the reasons as to why but the ultimate unifying piece was/is probably what you've already seen coming.
Attachment issues. If you're on Tinder (or any of its equivalents) at all at this point you're probably suffering from them and will thus attract the same. Such people are worthy of pity and, if they display potential as someone who can be "fixed" (i.e. isn't a member of "the lost" as I term them), then they're worth the effort to try and fix. Helping them (and/or helping yourself) fix those issues will generate a massive amount of true emotional intimacy.
Ya won't find any Gamma's there anymore for these reasons and more lemme tell ya. I'd figured this out when it first started coming into the mainstream and I was only freshly graduating College when the first smartphones hit the market! Our own duals can figure shit out just as well as we can but from the opposite angle. An SEE would just "Not feel right" about how shit was going down on a date. She may not be able to grok the why, but her feeling that something was off would be enough for her to bail long before sex (or worst case rape) was even a remote possiblity.
If ya wanna find an ESI/Dual of any type than heed my advice. Find a religion you can live with, get involved, and once you've done the congregation a few favors put out a feeler. Hell they'll likely put one out long before you do. They'll ask you "Are you single?" and If you answer Yes, they'll go through a whole song and dance dependent upon their type and at the end (if they really feel you've been straight with them) will make a serious effort to matchmake you with someone they feel will be a good match for you. They've all got nieces and nephews. Cousins and friends...
A hobby will work as well if it has a necessary social component (e.g. for me it's Martial Arts as any girl who's into that hardcore is quite likely to be a Dandy and thus likely an valuer). ESI's are pretty artsy (as are ILI's funny enough) so I'd lean into that sphere. Caution: If they even hint of wokism you best bail. Death Cultists are cultists first and foremost and while you may be quite liberal you aren't likely woke enough to suck the "feminine penis" with eager glee as it were.
I'm probably going to end up with a 25+ SEE because I can and will admit all this and more straight up. I have the data and I'll reveal it to her. Her apparent "crazy" fails to dwarf mine own. She fails to surpass mine own crazy factor. I wonder if you see ILI's as like yourself, but more nuts. I see LIE's as like myself, but saner and more sociopathic by current standards. The overvaluation of just irks me somehow. Guess I can blame that on my LSE mother...
My ESI-Se interior decorator signed me up for Tinder and I've been dipping into it from time to time, but in the short times I've spent looking, I haven't run across any women that I'd be happy to spend time with. So, I decided to just sit down and page through as many as I could stand in one session.
After a few minutes of "swiping left", Tinder announced that they had run out of listed females in my demographic, and would I like to try "International Tinder"? Maybe to find a Russian or Cambodian bride, I guess. No, thanks.
In my short session spent rejecting everyone, there was one woman who was intriguing. She said that she didn't live in Michigan but stayed here frequently to care for her mother, who has Alzheimer's. She said she was just looking for someone to have fun with and do some short activities with.
She was thin, had short hair, looked really good, and one of her pics was a down-blouse picture to prove that she's female. She didn't look fancy, but rather just looked like she quietly knew who she was and what she wanted, and I like that. If I had to guess her type, I'd say ESI-Fi e9.
She didn't look exactly like someone permanent, but she was miles ahead of everyone else on that site and I could see us together. I swiped right.
For anything to happen, she has to swipe right on my picture, too. Given Tinder's approach to creating long term relationships, I'll probably never see her again.
@End, thanks for your advice. I think you're probably right about most of your recommendations, because the ESIs that I've met do seem to go to church. My SLI ex went to church religiously.
Unfortunately, I don't, and I have no desire to, either.
- Have you paid? You need to pay for Tinder Gold so that you can see who has liked you so far. It's better that way.
- Take good pics of yourself. If you can't do it yourself ask a friend to help. The better the pics the better chances. Or hire a professional photographer. Pics are important, very important.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
It's maybe Fe, but I think it's important to join the game of looking cool and interesting. Or nice or mysterious or anything positive. It took me forever (like 1 year or so) to get my pics right. I couldn't do it myself. I and a friend went out to different places in town and had a photography session. Of course within the limits of how I like to present myself.
I know that some gorgeous girls can take pics in the bathroom mirror, but if I do it it just looks creepy.
On the other hand, I might not really know what women like...
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Another Tinder date just today...
Based on messages and pics I thought maybe SEE, EIE or even ESE. Fe was obvious. In pics she looked SEE though.
Anyway, she is SEE.
She is nice and we had a nice walk and coffee
But it's interesting how my mind reacts to Se. I get tired and I try to ignore or downplay it. She wasn't "forceful" or anything like that, just the normal concrete, connected-to-reality Se.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Yes. It got my undivided attention.
Here's the weird thing: It wasn't even that visually revealing, but it made clear her intentions, and I see that as an open door.
Open doors are important to Victims, because we don't push them open ourselves, usually. We need to know that we're welcome to come in before we enter. At least, I do.
Plus, I liked her face.
Yes, I did.
When the ESI-Se set up my tinder account for me, I was skeptical that I'd find anyone on that site that I'd like. She told me that I was being too particular in chasing a Dual, and I should just go out and have some fun with new people.
I assume that's her own approach. So far, she's had some terrific failures, but so did I when I was 27. Because I didn't know a fucking thing about people.
However, I've recently been saying that people's character shines out of their face (for VI reasons), and there's absolutely no reason for me to go out with a woman whose face I don't want to see every day. That narrows down my prospective choices by quite a bit. Quite a bit.
Classic exploitative measure if we're talking Game Design. Create the problem and sell the solution. Tinder is best viewed as a rather tragic game IMO. The broken and lost trying to find something they're all doomed to never find whilst being sold the lie that they've already got a valid treasure map and that this app is the key to decoding it.
Pisses me off how often Game Design gets used in all the worst ways nowadays...
I wonder if this is a difference between ILI's and LIE's. An open door obviously deserves a peak. Give it a good prod or two and see what happens. That'll tell ya if you're welcome in or not.
She was signaling an openness to an ONS far as I can tell and that's a major red flag for me. Only really broken women are DTF on the first date. And wouldn't ya know it what kind of women are ya most likely to find on Tinder...
Still, this could be a way in for you. You may be the first male, especially if a male victim type, that didn't just cave upon being offered the keys to the kingdom as it were. Healthy aggressors don't want easy conquests. Well, they do but they don't put/desire to have rings put upon them by the easy ones. Napoleon went mad with desire over Josephine (to the point he actually married her back when that actually meant quite a lot) because she knew how to play "hard to get". Easy conquests are easy and quickly forgotten upon the campaign trail. Oh but that one tough as all hell to crack fortress that they risked it all on and actually succeeded. Oh now that was satisfying. A true test worthy of a true conqueror!
Give them what they want my dude. A challenge. They already know they're going to win but the real treat for them is making them truly work for it. Again, assuming they're healthy in the head. From our end it is likewise. They know we're ultimately bluffing, but we do it out of our concern for their satisfaction.
Once more, easy conquests are like cup ramen or instant mashed potatoes. They get the job done and satisfy in the moment, but once you've had actually handmade examples of those? No comparison. Offer her the experience of a true feast. Give her the satisfaction of conquering you after a long and hard campaign. She'll treasure you all the more for it .
She's right about the first part. After all the truly deciding factor in the success of a romantic relationship is attachment and not socionics. You can have a healthy, wonderful, and loving relationship with your conflictor. Yeah, it'll take a ton of work and effort from both sides in comparison to how easy it otherwise works out for duals but it can be done. So yeah, if she's fun and kind give her a chance .
You're also right about that second part. I instantly aborted someone's attempt to set me up with this one girl at church. She's nice and all, but for the love of God her neck. That neck... it's a deformity and yeah I'm being shallow as hell but damnit if looking at her straight on instantly kills my boner there's no real future there. That and her voice is the very definition of grating. Nope. Sure she's a nice girl and would otherwise make someone else very happy but I know for damn sure I'm not that person.
I'd also feed that ESI a bit of my own advice. Y'know, risking the whole being truly vulnerable to others and maybe using churches and hobbies over phone apps who have an obvious financial angle. Having a hobby and going to church are free. You don't have to put anything in the collection plate if ya don't wanna and nobody looks down on you for it. Hobbies have a cost for entry but after that nobody really cares if you don't go crazy...
That angle doesn't work for everyone. I'm active at church, I help lead a Bible study, I teach STEM Outreach, I attend English Club, I go to the gym... Plenty of opportunities for a meet cute moment. Yet, nothing. (Nothing in terms of dating, of course. I obviously get a lot out of those activities in terms of health and enjoyment and fulfillment.)
I don't want to be single forever. Even though I'm still quite young, I'm cognizant of the fact that the clock is ticking. Might as well get in the dating game before my age becomes a liability and before all the good guys are taken. I'm annoyed with myself for throwing a mental pity party whenever I see a happy couple. I'm bored of dreaming that I'll naturally stumble across "the one."
Tinder it is! I'll probably wait until summertime though. More time.
Anyhow, idk why the ESI would be unwise to use a dating app. If she's not finding romance in other arenas of life, that doesn't necessarily mean she's not engaged in other arenas. Nor does it necessarily mean that she's not being vulnerable enough. It probably just means she isn't meeting the right people through her activities. Dating apps quickly expose you to a larger pool of people, most of whom are interested in a relationship.
Last edited by Dreymagine; 09-24-2022 at 05:36 AM.