Eliza,

you ignored the previous post I made about Paul (somehow Christians always manage to do this), but you've said this:

Actually it is more of a both/and. First, nothing we can do can save us, no matter how exemplary. Only Jesus's death for us can atone, and atonement is needed. We are ALL saved through Jesus alone (including lots now in Heaven who never knew Him on earth. (His laws are written on all of our hearts; when we love His laws we love Him). But Catholics, Orthodox and the vast majority of Protestants agree: We are saved by faith, and that by the grace of God alone[/B]. The "and" is that we must grow in holiness, we must do right, and follow God's ways.


I challenge you to make the case for being saved by faith-alone without citing Paul. As a special challenge, try citing Jesus' words to do this.

I notice you've also mentioned Matthew 24's prophecy that no one will know the "day and hour" when Jesus returns. Since you apparently believe some of Jesus' words in that chapter, I wonder if you'll believe others.

Elsewhere in that chapter, Jesus talks about how many false Christs will appear "to deceive, if possible, even the elect." But he says not to believe them: "So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

In other words, if anyone's walking around claiming to have seen a physical manifestation of Jesus after he's already gone, Jesus says not to believe them, because his return will be obvious to everyone in the world.

In Paul's conversion story, there was a flash -- a physical event, which others saw -- in which Paul claimed to have seen the true Jesus. Do you see a problem here? By the standards of Matthew 24, the Jesus that appeared to Paul was an imposter.