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Thread: Questions about subtypes (2 subtype system)

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    Default Questions about subtypes (2 subtype system)

    1. How do you think the 2 subtypes differ? Is the base subtype more wise and emotionally intelligent? Is the creative subtype more knowledgeable and intellectual?


    2. Do you sometimes prefer relationships with people of the opposite subtype? For example, can there be benefits to working relationships with people of a different subtype to you? Can these relationships be more fun or affectionate or interesting?


    3. Do you have friends who are a different subtype to you?


    4. Do you prefer particular subtypes for different ITR?


    5. Do you think subtype has a strong impact on the success of a relationship? (friendship, colleagues, romantic). Does the strength of the subtype make a difference? Or is it something else that helps people to people get on? (such as having a high level of maturity or similarity to each other in intelligence and values).

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    1. Creative subtype tends to be more balanced. Lead subtype's mobilizing function, in my opinion, may go haywire believing itself to be more beneficial than it really is. For example, LII-Ti will embrace their Si & expect others to conform to the rigid standards set by it.

    2. With opposite subtype, wisdom helps If one interacts with a complimentary subtype, impulsiveness may work but with opposite subtype, impulsiveness may suck for the dyad.

    3. Yeah

    4. Yeah, at a job for example, folk with different perspectives make things awesome. For intimacy relations though, that's an individual choice

    5. Yeah, cause the impulse is to be who you are. If a dyad isn't "perfectly" compatible, one person's instinct is to dual seek to fulfill the "proper" psychological urge. Basically meaning, a strong Ti function will then seek out strong, compatible Fe for its balance. But yeah, qualities & common ground are legit. People make mistakes but foolishness fuckin' sucks, man

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    subtypes is one of baseless heresies
    identify types correctly and think about different _other_ traits which influence on behavior and relations
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    1. How do you think the 2 subtypes differ? Is the base subtype more wise and emotionally intelligent? Is the creative subtype more knowledgeable and intellectual?

    5. Do you think subtype has a strong impact on the success of a relationship? (friendship, colleagues, romantic). Does the strength of the subtype make a difference? Or is it something else that helps people to people get on? (such as having a high level of maturity or similarity to each other in intelligence and values).
    The difference is that one spends too much processing time on either input (information acquisition) or output (rationalization). Subtype is an imbalance from the ideal of 50-50 I/O but there's no significant imbalance until one set of processes occupies more than two-thirds of the available processing time; less than that, one isn't likely a subtype although some tests say so when one is a percentage point one way or the other. Imbalance implies inefficiencies in a majority of cognitive situations although effectiveness may improve on a small subset of tasks. Imbalances present handicaps for most relationships and bigger imbalances cause greater difficulties - and handicaps do not cancel each other out. Duals that both qualify as subtypes will have difficulty regardless of what subtype combination they are. To predict that two particular subtypes would make a better partnership would be somewhat like saying that two individuals each with a weak leg would make a better team for a physical task than if one partner had only a weak arm or if one partner was totally fit.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    The difference is that one spends too much processing time on either input (information acquisition) or output (rationalization). Subtype is an imbalance from the ideal of 50-50 I/O but there's no significant imbalance until one set of processes occupies more than two-thirds of the available processing time; less than that, one isn't likely a subtype although some tests say so when one is a percentage point one way or the other. Imbalance implies inefficiencies in a majority of cognitive situations although effectiveness may improve on a small subset of tasks. Imbalances present handicaps for most relationships and bigger imbalances cause greater difficulties - and handicaps do not cancel each other out. Duals that both qualify as subtypes will have difficulty regardless of what subtype combination they are. To predict that two particular subtypes would make a better partnership would be somewhat like saying that two individuals each with a weak leg would make a better team for a physical task than if one partner had only a weak arm or if one partner was totally fit.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Interesting. Thank you

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    IEI-Fe... feels more outgoing than me , more nicer in ways. But also more dense maybe. Less caring when somebody is like pulling a power play for more power. They seem to fit in better with 'Karen Society.' They care more about the emotional atmosphere than I do, they feel more 'upbeat' and truly gay.

    idk why but when I think of IEI-Fe I think of a stereotypical gay man that wants to cut ur hair with a pair of scissors while stroking ur hair gently and saying nice things to you and being like Starfall Normie At a Salon.

    They are kind of even physically affectionate in ways that make me feel kind of creepy. Like the stereotype that IEIs 'touch their interlocutors hand' when talking to others must have came from IEI-Fe cuz I would never ever do that lol.

    I'd find them kind of creepy and inappropriate tbh unless they were really hot and hunky. I think I'd accept IEI-Fe female way more than the males usually. IEI-Fe reminds me of a lot of girls who do those soothing ASMR video things?

    They feel much more Si as well- like we both supposedly have 2D Si but their Si feels better and natural, and they use it much more often. I think people need to add more Ti modifiers to the dimensional thing anyway, it's too bland and blah to me. Can a T type please do that? Thank you.

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    Tbh, I've been wondering about how stable subtypes might be. Maybe I'm just unstable.
    I was thinking on the many times I took a single test over time and mostly got the same type with differing subtypes. I've seen 0,1, and 2 on both side. I don't see myself as having a set subtype's what I mean, tho I think some people somewhat do.
    I'm more one to think a pronounced subtype is bad news no matter where it leans, it's closer to a painful adaptation imo.
    What do they look like? Too much, stuck in a certain way/mentality, less flexible.
    I guess there's a difference between having a subtype and living a life or being in a setting where one ego function is more required than the other. There's a lot of context to consider.

    Considering IR, well, my most used function's Fe, like most peeps where I live, and it's not in my ego so idk. Cultural phenomenons can mess up IR for those whose ego functions aren't part of the culture.

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    Iím not sure what subtype I am since I donít have many EIIs around me to compare to plus psych dxs are anothe confounding variable because I relate to Ne sub character but I donít relate to the appearance. I think? Itís like who would I be were I not depressed/had a serious dx? I donít know

    but i do think my childhood best friend - the only person Iíve ever considered a best friend - may be an EII-Ne. I never felt any lack of Fi from her, it was very clear and we got along really well and easily.

    i suspect the variability within type is more nuanced such than even two 1Fi or 1Ne or whatever subs will not be the same. And this is dynamic too I think, it can somewhat change over time.

    so in the end some duals and identical click and some may not (as easily)


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    In Filatova’s book it says that introverts with base subtype will seem more introverted than those with creative subtype. And extroverts with base subtype will seem more more extroverted than those with creative.
    Last edited by Bethany; 07-17-2021 at 06:35 PM.

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    @Rebelondeck could I ask you something please? What do you think is more important or significant in determining the success of a relationship? Subtype imbalances or socionics ITR? So for example which couple would do better together:

    -SEI with no subtype imbalance plus IEI with a slight subtype imbalance or SLE and IEI who both have a slight subtype imbalance

    I know other stuff is important (how much you have in common with someone/ mental health levels for instance) and these will also play a part in how successful the match is.

    Or would the two hypothetical couples in question just have different problems? The look-a-likes would have normal look-like issues (bit of boredom) and the two duals might argue more than better suited duals.

    Or maybe the worse the ITR is the more important the subtype/lack of it becomes?

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    @Bethany All marriage-like relationships take maturity, compromise, commitment and work; if one of these is lacking, there'll likely be conflict regardless of type compatibility. Being somewhat type compatible helps with group dynamics (understanding, communication and direction) but people don't need to be close (or even like each other) to share the load. What I recognise as subtypes seem to have problems even in work situations; they're either like me, too unaware or like my opposite, don't rationalize long enough. Your guess is as good as mine as to whether or not two unawares, or two casuals, or a casual and an unaware would make viable partners; it depends more on the first four things that I mentioned. All long term partners become predictable and most likely boring. IEIs (especially Ni-subtypes) tend to be overly optimistic and get swept up in the romance of the moment so many fail to forecast what relationships would be like further down the road even when the signs are acutely obvious at the beginning; they seem to only look for evidence supporting what they desire.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    1. Inert: 3-base, Contact: 2-creative, for details, you could read contact/inert dichotomies. No. No.
    It doesn't boost anything but the social aspect and usage of the accepting and producing elements.

    2. Not really. LII-Ne is rather flexible and "open-minded". Somewhat.

    3. Online, yes.

    4. Not really.

    5. No. No. No.
    Last edited by Metaphor; 08-17-2021 at 05:11 AM.

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    I think that the concepts of subtypes are disputable since I don't understand why 4 functions have to be strengthed together.

    But I do find the existence of subtypes since I notice some people with a less-developped creative function (eg. ILE with weak Ti)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTzu View Post
    .......2. Not really. LII-Ne is rather flexible and "open-minded". Somewhat.......
    All LIIs are usually open-minded when it comes to information acquisition but tend to be very inflexible on process including Ne-subtypes who tend to procrastinate more but this shouldn't be confused with process flexibility.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Hmmm, it seems to me that LII-Ne tends to have a better adaptability towards the new environment in my opinion.
    I was about to emphasize how much they are at accepting the novelties around them and somewhat impulsive according to the description, but I got your point. Agreed that both tend to be inflexible on processing new information but not to absorb them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    All marriage-like relationships take maturity, compromise, commitment and work; if one of these is lacking, there'll likely be conflict regardless of type compatibility.
    Sounds like a healthy approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Being somewhat type compatible helps with group dynamics (understanding, communication and direction) but people don't need to be close (or even like each other) to share the load.
    interesting. There's hope for us all Been alone long enough and spent the last year reflecting on this. It's hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    What I recognise as subtypes seem to have problems even in work situations; they're either like me, too unaware or like my opposite, don't rationalize long enough.
    Unaware/don't rationalize long enough seems a good way of comparing them. I am not confident in telling subtypes apart tbh. But I can think of a couple of people I work with who I think are oppostive subtype who I sometimes have problems with. I get on ok (sometimes it’s good) with my SEE line manager but sometimes I just want to avoid her. She likes me though apparently haha. We had a particularly awkward period and she snapped at me and afterwards she made a point of mentioning to me that she sometimes worries she's said the wrong thing, ruminates about it and has long discussions with her co-worker about this kind of stuff. My other colleague SEI- every sentence we exchange is misunderstood by the other, but only ever so slightly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Your guess is as good as mine as to whether or not two unawares, or two casuals, or a casual and an unaware would make viable partners; it depends more on the first four things that I mentioned.
    Yes, either I just can't tell the difference between the 'subtypes' or it seems to me that it's not so clear if there are 'matching' subytpes which suit each other better. Confused on this still. Upbringing/ values may be more important. Perhaps ultimately values.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    All long term partners become predictable and most likely boring.
    This is actually not a terrible thing to hear. It sort of takes the pressure off..like if something doesn't work out with someone it's not the end of the world Also, for someone who worries a bit about not being 'good enough' (I worry about this more than I used to) well it's kind of amusing to think that everyone is seen as boring in the end...my long-term friendships are not the most exciting but I'm still grateful for them. I can handle 'boring'. I've spent my whole life entertaining myself lol. It would just be nice to not have quite so many anxious/depressed thoughts (a partner, another brain/pair of hands) to take the pressure off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    IEIs (especially Ni-subtypes) tend to be overly optimistic and get swept up in the romance of the moment so many fail to forecast what relationships would be like further down the road even when the signs are acutely obvious at the beginning; they seem to only look for evidence supporting what they desire.
    hm well I did fall for the wrong person recently, but I hope not to get it quite so wrong again. But I guess I could get it wrong. I'm gonna give it a few months of looking anyway lol.

    Another thing I find interesting is meeting people from dating apps. For example I had a couple of dates with an Estp who was ok..but at the time I was too new to socionics and over thinking stuff. I wouldn't say we had a natural click but I did consider being his friend afterwards. He wasn't English/ was perhaps going towards ti subtype..these things could have played a part in not feeling immediate attraction. (Not that I only like English guys, but we were from quite different cultures). He was nice looking and not too dorky :s I guess he isn't my ideal... The point I wanted to make was that it's intersting how dating apps can potentially make you look past those romantic ideals you buld up in your head and be a bit more open-minded in the kind of person you go for. Maybe anyway. It's interesting to me to think about comparing an 'ok' Estp with a ' cool, interesting' version of another type. Also, something I have realised from looking and dating a bit...looks are really important. Sad, true and I suppose normal.
    Last edited by Bethany; 08-19-2021 at 07:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    .......Yes, either I just can't tell the difference between the 'subtypes'

    ....... (a partner, another brain/pair of hands) to take the pressure off.

    .......I guess he isn't my ideal.....dating apps can potentially make you look past those romantic ideals........looks are really important.........
    You can't likely differentiate subtype because there really aren't that many; most people fall within a normal range. If subtype was advertised as a problem, there might be fewer who would want to be labelled as such. The few subtypes that I've run across were relatively easy to distinguish.

    No partner will alleviate pressure that comes from within; the better partner is one who won't add to it.

    Inability to cope with non-ideal relationships seems to be the Achilles heel of many IEIs and they're often the source of their own feelings of isolation. However, for many, standards (and hence self-induced stress) seem to reduce with age.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    @Rebelondeck I think I have identified a couple of people who would be a subtype according to the way you describe it earlier in the thread. I had a EII friend at uni who went out with an SEI guy who may have had a strong subtype. He was extremely smart and talented and spent his time either with lecturers, his girlfriend or with a group of really normal, nice girls I knew, often helping them with their work. I couldn't really talk to him but he was interesting to be around. He had a characteristic wide eyed stare (almost a bit crazy looking) and a strange, stunted way of talking even though he was very articulate. He was a quite odd in his manner but people still liked him, although I think a few didn't. I think he probably stood out as very smart but strange. He could be normal sometimes but usually would speak in a very abstract way. Didn't display a wide range of emotions.

    The other person is a man at work, in quite a senior position, part of a small team. I don't really come across him much but again, he has a sort of startled look and similarly fidgety manner. I've think he has a reputation for being a bit obsessive about projects he is running and maybe not having the best social skills. I would say he has a certain charisma about him but that's just from hearing him speak in meetings.
    Last edited by Bethany; 08-19-2021 at 07:12 PM.

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    @Bethany Fidgets and crazy looks are separate matters. I'm a Ti-subtype and I spend more time inside my own head than the average LII. In every other aspect, I appear as normal as any other typical LII, and my neighbours and staff seem to like me even though I rarely socialize with them. I have a good public persona; my mental remoteness would be obvious only to the observant because I'm not one to deliberately avoid people and I do take interest in them so I wouldn't qualify as a hermit. However, my spouse says that I'm a hermit but then she's typical ESE.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Strong base subtype: doesn’t think enough about important things (comes across as selfish or self-absorbed)
    Strong creative subtype: thinks about the wrong things (comes across as distracted, pig-headed)

    I think a lot of my friends (some are ex-friends now) have a strong-ish base subtype. I think my dad does too and I might. My subtype has caused me more problems than it has those friends. Sometimes I marvel that I had 3 close IP friends for 15 years and not one of them asked me why I was always single/alone. They weren’t necessarily friends with each other. Maybe it’s partly due to their IP-ness- IPs are often caught up in their own world.

    I think I am nicer than those friends but I can see that they have a depressive streak in them, that is different to the problems I experience. Their depression sometimes becomes clear and it sort of shakes me into awareness- like gosh even people in relationships with good jobs are struggling..and reminds me that I’m not alone in my struggles. Unfortunately, some of these friendships did not work out in the end which I view as unlucky. I was no longer the upbeat person they needed. I am actually friends with more upbeat people now- I needed people who were a bit more openly caring, to help me feel like I mattered and that my own pain was valid and not something to hide anymore.

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    I was gonna say that IEI-Fe feels more 'normie' and better at sports and shooting guns or something - and I already said that lol. when I first saw the time stamp I thought u posted this June of this year, but it was last year- life is so brutal and short lol.

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    @Shazaam god it’s true. I just watched the series of Mad Men (I love it) but I remember watching it five years ago around the time I quit teaching. Five years later and I feel like I’m starting to get back some of the energy I felt on a good day of teaching. I’m not particularly spiritual.. but I do think that socionics gave me a second chance at life. A couple of years in I don’t know where I’ll go with it next but I don’t think it’s going away lol. And I am definitely going to be cutting down TV. We are having a really nice summer here in the UK..and I’m gonna go on an actual holiday at some point. There’s a line in Gulenko’s book where he says that ‘socionics makes you see the world in colour after years of black and white’.


    I don’t feel young anymore- it’s good to have something that helps you to make sense of the world, especially if you’ve been lacking guidance. Maybe I really can be more like an SEI, embracing my feelings and seeing the physical world with a romantic eye..
    Last edited by Bethany; 07-05-2022 at 03:25 PM.

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