SLI's Fe?

[Silei]

How do you relate to Fe? Are you simply unaware of Fe "stuff" until someone makes you notice or are you hyperaware of it? How did you understand that your polr is Fe? The descriptions on the internet are very contradictory and not that helpful.

[Varu]

Their Fe is weak, (1D) conscious, unvalued.

It's useful to consider Fi too to understand better how Fe works in this case.

Their Fi is weak (yet slightly stronger than Fe, 2D), unconscious and valued.

Fe polr is aware when other people are expressing emotions.
Being their own Fe weak, they struggle to understand the subtleties of such emotional manifestations.
They don't like such emotional manifestations, being unvalued, but they painfully perceive when they're taking place, yet they can't clearly understand them, and they realise how the fact they don't easily partecipate in it may be detrimental to their own convenience.

Picture an immigrant who can't learn the language of his new country because he just sticks to communities of other immigrants because in his head it would be traumatic to just merge with the population of his new country. The person also has some objective difficulties in language learning, so at work he uses few useful sentences he learned, without even knowing the meaning of the single words. Of course this is an exaggerated metaphor, but it's effective to describe Fe polr's way of handling Fe (the polr handles Fe like the above mentioned immigrant handles the language).

Plus, valuing Fi, yet not consciously understanding it quite clearly (they tend to be in denial regarding their own desire for at least some form of relational bond) they may get viscerally hurt by other people getting offended by their words or actions. Fe porl doesn't hurt people on purpose. By definition they don't value other people's emotional reactions, so they don't find pleasure in causing negative ones. But since their Fe is so bad, negative consequences may happen.

[Varu]

I add a brief description of Fe DS too so that you may have an easier time understanding the previous post, comparing it with this.

Fe DS:

Their Fe is weak (1D), valued and unconscious.
Their Fi is weak (2D), unvalued and conscious.

Being their Fi unvalued, they don't really care about forming bonds and watering them. Yet, they consciously try to act in accordance to a conceptualised Fi and as a rule are polite in such matters. They consciously do this because "it's fair" and they don't want to be rude without a reason. In reality there's a more visceral reason: their unconscious desire for Fe. Not being "fair" leads to getting negative Fe reactions which they unconsciously learned to avoid.

All of this leads to some kind of paradox: a person who considers himself emotionless and not in need of other people (remember, there's consciously no need for relational bonds, and the desire for emotional exchanges is unconscious!) who actually needs at least some kind of emotional feedbacks in order to preserve his mental health. Such a person may in fact have extremely expressive moments when surrounded in positive environments, rich of laughter.
Compare this to the Fe polr. The Fe polr has less exceptions in this matter, and will appear more emotionally stern in all kinds of emotional environments.

[eiemo]

I seem to come across many SLIs.

SLIs are generally not very expressive. They are generally not very interested in emotional expression.

I know someone who is most likely an SLI. He could be INTj. He lacks the EJ temperament of an LSE (even though he frequently critiques on how people do not behave factually), and he lacks the Se valuation of an LSI or LIE.

He does not like it when people are overly dramatic and/or inauthentic, especially at the expense of factual rationality. I also think that he does not value Se that much because he says that power-seeking can be irrational. He also isn't fond of when people push themselves too hard at the expense of health and/or comfort.

[Silei]

Fe polr is aware when other people are expressing emotions.Being their own Fe weak, they struggle to understand the subtleties of such emotional manifestations.
They don't like such emotional manifestations, being unvalued, but they painfully perceive when they're taking place, yet they can't clearly understand them, and they realise how the fact they don't easily partecipate in it may be detrimental to their own convenience.

Ok, so it's not like they are completely blind to it, they see what is happening but don't know how to partecipate.

Such a person may in fact have extremely expressive moments when surrounded in positive environments, rich of laughter.
Compare this to the Fe polr.

It's interesting how "value" can change the look of a function.

He does not like it when people are overly dramatic and/or inauthentic,

I see, it's like "less is more" when it comes to emotions.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

The SLI I know doesn't really like "campy" or humorous gay stories. He likes more serious, 'official' and 'heart-breaking' stories of gays being discriminated against like talking about that Alan Turing guy. But I mean he has a lot of empathy and compassion for the GLBT community it's just much more incredibly Fi.

[Millen]

Ok, so it's not like they are completely blind to it, they see what is happening but don't know how to partecipate.

Yes.

[CR400AF]

A SLI I know are very bad at controlling the discussing atmosphere and he often says some inappropriate words.

[Sol]

Are you simply unaware of Fe "stuff" until someone makes you notice

weak = lesser of thoughts and a motivation about this, worse abbility and skills to understand and to use
nonvalued = neutral or negative perception of an activity there, lesser pleasant to deal with, quicker drains or supresses the psyche

> How did you understand that your polr is Fe?

indirectly, in common
for example, it can be done by dichotomies, IR effects

> The descriptions on the internet are very contradictory and not that helpful

read books recommended there

Ok, so it's not like they are completely blind to it, they see what is happening but don't know how to partecipate.

weak region: worse perceive, worse use
Jung type is generally about what is more or lesser (expressed, has a chance) to be in a behavior and in the mind, not about absolute.
For example. You may to have good skill in weak region, but it's more rare happens as it's harder to achieve. You may personally like more the one with significantly worse IR due to other factors influencing on this, especially when you know him a little and do not make close friendship - but it's lesser common.

[Varu]

I also want to add that in my experience many Fe polr really APPEAR like they don't care about the social environment, and it SEEMS like they ain't even pretending they do.
Fe DS tends to be gruff too, and people notice they ain't really merging naturally in the social context, but on average they tend to give a more communicative impression.

SLI naturally has some truly savage moments that rival those of SLE. On such occasions, if it weren't for the obvious difference in energy levels, it would be hard to tell them apart just by a superficial impression.

LSI in comparison tends to get perceived as being in true savage mode only when he intentionally intends to, for example when he analyzed a situation and jumped to the conclusion he has a reason to.

SLI can come across as truly bear-like. I knew a SLI who was silent nearly all the time. When others were creating a positive atmosphere he stayed on the outside, and occasionally just said something that got perceived as harsh by most of the people, mostly comments about objects and events. He didn't act like that to get emotionally negative reactions and have fun with it. He really didn't care. He just acted according to his inner sense and logic, and never sugar-coated anything. If you payed attention to his actions, you could also notice he really loved his family in his own way.
A Fe valuer like me couldn't stand such a person. He destroyed the atmosphere all the time. But Te valuers actually found his way of being endearing.

[Silei]

SLI can come across as truly bear-like. I knew a SLI who was silent nearly all the time.

I see, well mine was a personal question since I'm wondering if I might have Fe polr or not. Overall I think SLI fits me, I can be very silent but being harsh? I don't think so and I don't think I'm perceived like that. Surely the fact that I'm won't join the fun if I don't want to may ruin the atmosphere, but I don't think I completely destroy it, since I know how words can impact others and I use them carefully (or maybe I'm just someone who was criticised so hard from that point of view that I learned to avoid this pain by being more careful). That's why I wondered if someone can be a Fe-polr but also aware of Fe stuff. I also wonder if enneagram plays a role in this, I'm a 9 so I don't know, maybe that smoothes the edges of a Fe polr.

[Crink]

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Old Post
I think si first can give an easier edge. A lot of times I question an SLIs type for this reason. Also ne makes them more wacky than ILIs. I think most SLI-Si E9 come across as not fe polr - until there's something that makes them very uncomfortable interpersonally. Or they say something way too directly that makes everyone hold a grudge. But I'm biased, and fe polr seems like a normal way to be from my perception of things.

[aixelsyd]

If it's too heavy-handed, it creates an internal gag reflex of sorts. I don't mind creative Fe, generally, though. But I can generally tolerate Fe as long as it's not blowing in my direction, if that makes sense.

[gammarespecter]

Is this the same as trying to subdue someone’s emotional expression? If they are enacting a story and being over the top and funny and theatrical in a fe base manner, and one’s desire is for them to calm down or dilute their expression…by not feeding into their Fe, is that an example or PolR or ignoring?

[godslave]

Dr. G :

Braking Function +E — Emotional Ethics Contrasting in the manifestation of her emotions, she is cool and immersed in herself like an iceberg in the ocean; on the contrary, she can become emotionally excited and energetic. SLI assesses human relationships by the degree of emotional manifestations. Stormy emotions are an indicator of instability and bad relations. During a conflict, she prefers not to get involved in the dispute, but simply to leave. However, if conflicting parties hurt her, she will respond in a harsh manner. She is not frank with strangers. She doesn’t like when somebody tries to penetrate her inner experiences and dig into her soul. She should be understood without words.

Filatova :

Vulnerable Channel ( E — emotionality…)

They seem moderate and passionless, preferring to hide their emotions. However, their reaction to insults, especially in public, may be explosive:

When I was a freshman in high school, there was a group of children of very important parents in our class. Some of the kids at school bent to this group, others even sought their protection. I held aloof from them, but they terrorized everybody and, one day, one of them hit me. I hit the offender in return. Other kids held us apart, but we agreed to fight after classes. I won the fight and won their respect, but even after that I never wanted to join this group of villains.


Craftsmen are afraid that their feelings may be ridiculed, and for this reason are very secretive, in spite of their susceptibility. Sometimes, people of this type like spending time with children, because «it is easy to be natural with them». Craftsmen feel hurt when their family members are indifferent to their emotional state and mood, and cannot just ignore, like some other types, unjust reproaches, especially because they hate to explain themselves.

I worked in my vegetable garden up to night under rain, had not a dry thread on, was as tired and hungry as a hunter and my wife complains about my late coming!

They remember such offences for a long time, even though they do not express them verbally.

Aushra :

 

SLI’s emotions (2/1) are his response to the properties of these surrounding flows. A response that also obeys the needs of the environment for this individual’s Ego activity. The more this activity is needed, the more the 2/1 half-phase can and should be revealed. Superfluous emotions are unnecessary, they shock not so much those around him as the SLI himself, who feels like a person who has opened his arms in a heartbeat and has been turned away from him. The SLI is frustrated by all the emotions of his own that have drawn the attention of those around him because they cannot be realized at the 3/1 half-phase. The desire to avoid such “interrupted action” gives rise to the need for normativity.

SLI is confident that reasonable normative emotion is possible. The 2/1 half-phase is always dreaming of normativity.One can think of it another way: the object of orientation is the rhythm and sequence of the subjective emotional reactions of the environment, the excitement and emotions of people. In order to notice all this, not to lose sight of it, special care is needed in manifesting one’s own emotions, which can interrupt contact with objective reality. Contact is broken at a time when one’s own emotional response disrupts the emotional peace of others and triggers a response. Disruption of contact stresses the SLI, showing that the act of social adjustment has failed.

For SLI, a person’s adjustment to society, his socialization, is directly proportional to the extent to which the flow of his internal processes agrees with the same flow of society’s internal life. And to what extent this internal flow of his life, his rhythms and consistency, his ability to experience and empathize are valued and respected by society. In short – what they allow him, – without causing unnecessary attention, surprise, remarks and reproaches.

Therefore, with the manifestation of emotions usually wait a long time, trying not to make a mistake, not to show their point of least resistance inappropriately. They know that any emotion can be shown in such a way that it harmoniously blends in with the overall flow.

“The emotional program of SLI must merge with socially accepted norms. Otherwise, there is a disconnect. Norms – how a person should feel and what and when he should feel – are formed in the child’s head, and the SLI has been carrying out this program all his life. Later on, the external manifestations of internal flows are only slightly corrected. SLI can give up personal comforts and personal benefits for the sake of fulfilling a personal emotional program.” – E. V.

For what does he feel he receives the attention and respect or recognition of those around him?
“For his ability to be internally level-headed and for his ability to balance others.” – E. V.

If he is internally “even enough,” then his concern for people’s well-being is more needed and recognized by society. That is, the more consistent he is in his inner life, the more valuable he is as an integral part of society and the more it needs his activity. Simultaneously, the smoother and more qualitative this process is, the more emotionality a person is allowed, because “the purer and more concrete his emotions are.” – E. V.

The emotions that SLI shows are an application for activity in social life, and it is a shame when more of this activity is shown than society accepts services from him.

“One has to be smartly, in moderation, emotional. Each segment of a given emotion must have a logical justification, and each emotion must be beautifully framed, aesthetically pleasing. In other words, you can’t lose your head. Emotions can be talked about, but not imposed on others. In everyday life, SLI thinks little about it. Everything happens by itself, inside him, almost instantly. Most people of this type, especially when they are in socially active, managerial positions, never think about it and do not feel their dependence on emotions. And they can, with a clear conscience, deny what we have said above.” – E. V.

SLI sees: the emotional life of some people, even if they are very cheerful, flows smoothly into the flow of society’s emotions, both in its beginning and its flow and result. Others go backwards like blind men, hurting with their “cruel” (EIE, ESE) or “speculative” (SEI) emotionality and causing a flurry of trouble. This is understandable – SLI tries to make sense of the flow of emotions as an objective given, whereas for EIE or ESE this is the realm of opposing their own will to what is going on outside. They do not adapt to this flow, but freely control it.

“In SLI’s view, those who do not adapt to the rest of the people can kill or support, but this is always unexpected and dangerous.” – E. V.

A person whose emotions are unpredictable, unpredictable, causes anxiety and a sense of danger. As for the intuitive-ethical extrathyme (IEE), his emotions are predictable because they result from a situation in time that is controlled by the SLI.

The SLI avoids imposing his natural emotions and moods on others, considering it the height of tactlessness and impoliteness, bad parenting, and spitefulness. After all, “you respect emotion, you respect the person.” But because he believes in norms, unless he has social opportunities (children, spouse, subordinates), he tries to subject the emotions of those around him to the norms he knows.

“Emotions must be logical, and in the name of order, SLI, without any guilt and with a sense of social obligation, violates these natural streams. It’s probably only the duals who aren’t annoyed by it. For SLI himself, it is a way of taking those around him “into the hands” (the norm) of his Superego.” – E. V.

SLI’s general smiling, cheerfulness is conditioned by the psychological climate in which he is accustomed to exist. In a favorable psychological climate in which his emotional experiences are taken seriously, respected, and even found followers, he is a very emotional person, usually characterized by a subtle sense of humor. Like no one else, feels some funny aspects of everyday life and great events, is able to make jokes about it all. The emotional life in the dyad is shaped by the SLIs, not by their duals. They are the ones who make their partners laugh, who lift their spirits, because:

“You can’t exist around frowny people. They are alarming in their own right. SLI can’t get around them. He only bypasses them when he’s absolutely certain he can’t help them. If he can help, it makes him feel that someone needs him, that he is needed. The dual of SLI, IEE, also likes to amuse the company, but he himself becomes emotionally empty. SLI’s role is to fill this emptiness. Outwardly, this emptiness is manifested by a frown, immobility, stiffness, or exaggerated complaints. SLI controls and regulates all of this both “at home” and “in public. For example, IEE “performs,” “gives a program,” while SLI monitors other people’s facial expressions and their emotional state. IEE must not overdo it, his jokes must not become a flood of emotionality.” – E. V.

From SLI’s point of view, emotions and other inner experiences are something that everyone would like to talk about, that everyone is interested in. He is able to listen to confessions about other people’s experiences and emotions, their love stories, as long as these stories themselves are unemotional. He can interfere in the emotional life of others only after they ask him to do so. It is important for SLI to know that he has a sense of proportion and tact.

In certain situations, SLI is unable to contain his emotions. This is already a breakdown, a disaster. In this case, he loses control over himself. This is why he is afraid of scandals, because they lead to an abyss. It is a real uncontrollable hysteria.

“After an emotional breakdown, SLI is not responsible for his actions for some time, because he loses normal contact with the world.” – E. V.

This applies to every personality type, everyone is afraid of snapping on their 2/1 half-phase. For the SLI it is emotions, for the SEI it is actions, for the ILE it is feelings about people and other living beings that make them capable of “screwing up.”

Even a compliment for being emotional or in a good mood is perceived by the SLI with distrust, as a more or less open hint of his tactlessness, intemperance, in general – social intemperance, lowbrow. There is nothing to be said about rebukes on this subject.

“A compliment frustrates to the point of goosebumps down his spine; a reproof makes him cold. Therefore, when he is called emotional, it feels the same as being called hysterical. Even from the words “You’re too noisy today and disturb and irritate others” – the SLI has goosebumps running down his spine.” – E. V.

Everyone needs constant external support on their 2/1 half-phase. If not: “The SLI gets tired, and then he without the slightest remorse shows his bad mood. This is a hint at what he himself calls hysteria – a provocation for others to intervene, to change the situation, a signal to the dual that the SLI needs help, that he is confused.” – E. V.

Who in society enjoys the greatest, most finely polished emotional expression? Certainly actors. Hence such a craving for any kind of acting. There is another point here. SLI is sure that he is appreciated for the consistency of his inner emotional line. But that line can be one, and there can be many. Acting gives you the opportunity to perform in different roles, that is, to show different emotional lines. It is not without reason that most pop actresses of this type not only sing, but also dance. Both song and dance in this case are related not so much to the of the Ego block, as to the need to beautifully and cleanly demonstrate the rich inner world.

All SLIs are careful in their displays of emotion, hence there is a certain mask of tension on their faces. It does not come off even when they laugh. (There is a similar mask on the face of an ILI.) As a rule, these are people with a subtle sense of humor, who love to amuse others, to tell jokes and funny stories. And yet are able to keep a perfectly calm face. They can tell the funniest things with a stone face and in front of everyone’s laughter.

“But they don’t have to. If there is no tension, they can laugh themselves. It is easier to arouse the emotions of others with their own laughter.” – E. V.

The attitude toward history is interesting. One is usually interested in history, but the focus is not on the bare historical facts (in which ethical types are so strong!), but on the fates of people caught up in the emotional storms of this or that era.

“Memories, history reminds me of a motion picture that can be rewound in any segment, as many times as you like, which, however, has a chronological order and therefore never falls apart, but is only supplemented.” – E. V.

[ILuv2Ho3]

I have noticed it manifests in different situations:

When the atmosphere is emotionally intense in any direction, be it enthusiasm, sadness, anger, heart to heart open conversations, celebration, etc I feel awkward, as if socially pressured to join the collective feeling, this is uncomfortable to me, and I may oblige, if only for my own good, to avoid hostility, but I would much rather find my way out of the room as politely and discreetly as possible, then start to recover my energy once I am alone. If the collective mood does happen to genuinely match how I feel, I will express this, but discreetly, if evryone else is grinning and loling, I will smile with my lips closed, wit the occasional laugh here and there, very rarely do I cackle, usually when my EIE brother hits a funny bone in our short and sweet interactions. Short and sweet because I feel exhausted from too much time together., walking on eggshells, both of us, as neither means harm to the other.

Also, when I feel a certain way, positive or negative, I will usually hide it, and only show it when I feel extremely secure, as in, I will not be rejected, ridiculed. Either that, or when the emotion has been bottled up and I can no longer hold it in, so I explode, very very rare.

When I was much younger, I was much more inept when it came to the awareness of the impression my actions, expressions and lack thereof, and words, made on others, and would easily come off as inconsiderate, selfish, self serving and almost antisocial, socially handicapped. People easily assumed I was hostile and disagreeable. My brother's outrage at my social ineptitude would catch me off guard, as I was not aware of my blunder, and it was very painful, to have his anger and drama aimed at me, to me this felt as a punishment that I was unaware of ever earning, what is so wrong about taking care of myself, why do I owe explanations to others? Who are they to have a say in my life? I am minding my own business, and so should they. This I thought.

Also when I do engage in the use of Fe, when I receive positive feedback, I tend to overdo it, because it feels so exhilarating, intoxicating to feel competent in working a room, but then because of that, actually have ended up coming off as cringe.

Edit - I have also noticed my facial expression is very serious when neutral, and I tend to frown a lot, I have learned with the years to gesticulate more to more accurately convey what I am actually feeling, as I am not a hostile person, I am usually very chill.

[SilentFace]

I often think that especially Fe PolR can be hard to spot, since social "fitting in" is heavily dependent on Fe.

With most people in a professional business setting and a circle of friends, I find it very hard to observe Fe PolR (maybe being one myself is playing a role), because this function is so conditioned and expected by society.
When you are a bit self aware, you realize that a dead pan look irritates people, so you learn to always have a light smile on your face for example. There are of course still inadequate reactions/misplaced comments, but IMHO it is far more "fakeable" than, lets say, Se PolR.
Maybe with some people it is more of a keep-people-at-a-friendly-distance to protect the PolR and less of a complete loss of expressions.

At the top of the thread by @Varu was the analogy of not knowing to speak a certain language. I think thats very fitting, because you can still get very far with a smile and gestures, which can be trained fairly easily like @ILuv2Ho3 did

[ILuv2Ho3]

"... keep-people-at-a-friendly-distance to protect the PolR" <-- Very much this, just try my best to stick to the basic expected politeness and make sure not to cross that line

[SilentFace]

"... keep-people-at-a-friendly-distance to protect the PolR" <-- Very much this, just try my best to stick to the basic expected politeness and make sure not to cross that line

I find it very hard to differentiate between Fe PolR and Fi Role in that case.
What do you think?

[persimmonism]

There's an SLI-Si I enjoy dancing with at socials. He makes a lot of caricaturish faces sometimes. Baby persimmonism used to think that Fe PoLRs had to have expressionless faces. Not true! He seems to be interested in me and asked my Instagram. I'm trying not to give off the wrong signals, so I didn't even reply to his pretty thoughtful first video-message, just reacted a thumbs up. Thought that would give a clear signal but then he texts me Hi with my name plus two exclamation marks. What a bozo lol! Texting like that given the context is just weird, and it's even more weird given the extra context of my lackluster response. idk how to explain it but Yeah. Fe PoLRs can't read the room whatsoever and whenever I experience it, it feels so irritating and unforgivable. As compared to Fi PoLR, I'm soooo forgiving. Well. If it's someone I don't necessarily care about I'll fume about it a little to my bestie "how dare they!!" and then initiate contact again and if eventually we get close and I know they care about our relationship, I don't really care if they're relational klutzes, I find it pleasant actually. BUT NOT CANT READ THE ROOM KLUTZES. Lol. Well, xLEs often can't read the room too well. But they're not horrendous at it. They're teenagers at it not toddlers. /Rant

Edit: usually when an xLE I'm close to makes a read-the-room-wrong error, I like that afterwards I can just pull them aside and explain to them they made a "mistake". If I'm not close to them yet, they might often show resistance and think I'm wrong, but I'm able to eventually just logically explain it to them, and then potentially tell them how to fix it, if need be. I like that I can do that. I don't know why. It's not even that xLE are effusively grateful after the fact. I just like how they actually understand and value and take my advice. Maybe it makes a useless little 1DTe/Se feel useful hehe.
This sort of behavior would be absolutely meddlesome, overkill, and unwanted to other sociotypes. I don't imagine xLI taking it well. It would probably be a big PoLR hit.

[Simple]

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[Simple]

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