Religion is Everything

[Eliza Thomason]

Some here write as if it is nothing. It shocks me when I read it, and I question if I have read mistakenly. But particularly in these times some have this view. It is hard to fathom, because religion, or God, is everything. I feel sorry especially for those raised in places where religion is outlawed, and come from generations of unbelievers. Belief in and relationship to God is one of those things that makes us quite different from the animals. Yes, it is the best and also the the worst of humanity that makes us so distinct from the animals.

But the spiritual realm is the greater reality. Holy Scripture tells us that "We fight not against flesh and blood but powers and principalities". Like that angel on your one shoulder and the devil on the other. That is reality.

[End]

Some here write as if it is nothing. It shocks me when I read it, and I question if I have read mistakenly. But particularly in these times some have this view. It is hard to fathom, because religion, or God, is everything. I feel sorry especially for those raised in places where religion is outlawed, and come from generations of unbelievers. Belief in and relationship to God is one of those things that makes us quite different from the animals. Yes, it is the best and also the the worst of humanity that makes us so distinct from the animals.

But the spiritual realm is the greater reality. Holy Scripture tells us that "We fight not against flesh and blood but powers and principalities". Like that angel on your one shoulder and the devil on the other. That is reality.

Or you can shorten it to the decree I've been issuing towards anyone who dares to disagree. Everyone has a religion and if only they'd just accept that fact they'd actually land an actual epiphany that the PTB would rather they not have.

We may both have accepted the same Church as our ultimate (and ultimately factual) source of our spirituality but we may still have some misunderstandings we need to hash out...

[Tarnished]

The God can go fuck itself and leave me alone. I bow to no one. Only the weak need something to protect their pitiful soul...

I am the master of my fate.
I am the captain of my soul.

[Grendel]

>God fucking hates figs

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Hmm. You were the one that assumed ((very falsely I might add)) that I posted a dirty video publicly just because I'm gay- so really, who is the asshole here? I forgive you, but this is just a minor example of how "Holy" people often do wrong things thinking they are most in the right.

This isn't a Christian forum- it's a forum about socionics so you aren't going to find everybody that agrees with your lifestyle. If you don't want to be challenged on your beliefs then maybe join a place that will always agree with you. The cool thing about this place is that it has both Heterosexual Angels and Gay Demons.

The real God is one of Oneness- not of preaching or hypocritical morals or denouncing things everybody is going to do anyway. You don't get there by being religious or even "spiritual" but by Dark Night of the Souls and deeply exploring your jungian Shadow and going through it - what most "Christians" are too cowardly and weak to do. It's also a selfish, inward battle- there is no external preaching with this because that tends to all be negative projectionss that stops true enlightenment from happening. These people that actually do this correctly- usually the people that Christians are most likely to condemn or write-off are 'sinners' - are actually the people that are living much closer to God's true words.

The real Jesus broke bread with the prostitutes, the sinners, the homosexuals, the outcasts & weirdos society rejected for one reason or another. He didn't even say 'go sin no more' like a condescending douche. It might was 'written' like it was so by sinful heterosexuals that falsely interpreted Jesus' real teachings - but words mean nothing. Words are a veil. If they had any 'sins' - he cleansed them naturally without even speaking or saying anything- but merely accepting and loving them in his nondualistic presence of Oneness. He was also incredibly anti-Te and anti-establishment. Religion has rubbed people the wrong way for many years because people have corrupt Jesus' teachings for their own narcissism and need to look down on others. The real Jesus WEPT indeed.

[End]

The God can go fuck itself and leave me alone. I bow to no one. Only the weak need something to protect their pitiful soul...

I am the master of my fate.
I am the captain of my soul.

Quoth the demonically obsessed it not outright possessed. Again I assert you have a "god" even as you vociferously deny it. Sadly for you, it seems to be yourself. G.K. Chesterton had a great quote regarding that. About how Jones would be better off worshiping cats, crocodiles, the sun or moon, anything but himself. I'd suggest you follow that advice.

>God fucking hates figs

Actually, he loves all sinners. He hates their sins, but not them personally. I mean hell, Oz Fox, the lead guitarist for Stryper (a Christian Heavy Metal band that's actually pretty damn good) wore a "Jesus Loves Porn Stars" shirt to a recorded interview. He's not wrong to do so because he does indeed love porn stars. He just desires they'd stop being porn stars and instead become good wives or husbands. Or even priests and nuns if that be his will. Saint Augustine was one hell of a fornicator right before he wasn't after all.

[leckysupport]

Everyone has a religion...

Everyone doesn't have a religion.

Comments like this just diminish religion by putting it on par with consumerism and political ideologies etc..

[Computer Loser]

Religion is a system of beliefs.

Church is simply a medium for religion. Like people gathering at 16-types forum to talk about socionics.

Like politics, you will have a spectrum of "liberal" and "conservative" ideologies.

The former will put more emphasis on love and forgiveness, the latter will focus more on judgement and morality.

The bible teaches both, as they are two sides of the same coin;

You can't fully understand light without understanding darkness,

You can't understand God's love without understanding his judgement and wrath.

The point of Christianity/Salvation is not about being morally perfect, because Jesus already fulfilled that. Rather, it is knowing this and being transformed inside out. Lifestyle/outside actions are simply a byproduct of that transformation, not necessarily the thing that saves you.

It's like striving to be a physically healthy person; some outside indicators may manifest as eating healthy, going to the gym, being disciplined, etc.

Same thing applies to the spiritual health.

You don't agree with the lifestyle of a meth-user. But because you love that person you tell him to stop

[Tarnished]

Quoth the demonically obsessed it not outright possessed. Again I assert you have a "god" even as you vociferously deny it. Sadly for you, it seems to be yourself. G.K. Chesterton had a great quote regarding that. About how Jones would be better off worshiping cats, crocodiles, the sun or moon, anything but himself. I'd suggest you follow that advice.

I don't care if I have a "God" inside of me or not. I'm not interest in it so whether it does exist or not is not my concern. As a Te valuer, I love practical knowledge, what method has the highest chance of solving a technical problem. Understand something like God seem boring as fuck, I just need to understand myself instead.

God is irrelevant, even if it show its face right in front of me, unless it grant me some free wishes so I could make use of it.

[leckysupport]

Religion is a system of beliefs.

I wonder if calling religion "a system of beliefs" is fair.

It's seems odd to describe religion as a systematisation of what is most superficially apparent* about it.

*the dogma and practiced principles being what is superficially apparent.

[marooned]

Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?

[Tzuyu]

Certain strains of Christianity should be classified as a mental illness.

[Tonatiuh]

Certain strains of Christianity should be classified as a mental illness.

It's a cognitive virus.

[Grendel]

He just desires they'd stop being porn stars and instead become good wives or husbands. Or even priests and nuns if that be his will. Saint Augustine was one hell of a fornicator right before he wasn't after all.

You want to encourage the corrupt stock to keep spreading their genes, rather than leaving them to self-destruct?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Some here write as if it is nothing.

Meaning is always found within, innit. To you it's everything, to some people it's nothing. You're supposed to value Fi here... so it's not hard to figure out. That's the way it goes for a lot of things. I sometimes want the entire world to dance along to Kylie Minogue's Better than Today like they were my sock puppets- but everybody has the freedom to choose.

And thank God literally- for my free will to disobey "the authoritative father" and do my own thing. You shouldn't care so much that people don't like it so much as if God exists, only he can judge us anyway. Not yourself. You should just focus on being the best Christian you can be and not worry if other people are following along or not as when following the masses the m is silent. Heaven is naturally narrow anyway, and everybody's spiritual path is unique. "I just care about your eternal soul!" is condescending and not true, as you've tried to desexualize my unique soul to make yourself more comfortable. Or hypersexualize it to make you appear more righteous... Caring about something is a private Fi matter as it should be.

[Eliza Thomason]

Hmm. You were the one that assumed ((very falsely I might add)) that I posted a dirty video publicly just because I'm gay- so really, who is the asshole here? I forgive you, but this is just a minor example of how "Holy" people often do wrong things thinking they are most in the right.

Omigosh, BandD, I certainly did not assume that. And you are kind and generous to forgive me for what appeared to be a harsh judgement. I don't do chat that often but in the past I have clicked on whatever people post and been sorry. I once complained about that there, and someone else in chat said, "I just don't click on anything.". So generally I don't, but sometimes I will ask first when I think it possibly won't be offending.

I think one time I complained to you that I enjoy what you write but sometimes you can be graphic or crude and then I avoid interacting altogether. (And I respect everyone has different tolerance levels and I realize Beta/Delta tend to be opposite sides of that scale. (I have a Beta son, so I really do know). And in your decency and sensitivity, after that you were more accommodating to my particular ways which I remain grateful for. So I definitely did not assume what you said here. Please know that. But I do automatically ask before I click. That I even considered clicking, and asked, for me meant I assumed it likely wasn't offensive. That is all that was, BandD.

This isn't a Christian forum- it's a forum about socionics so you aren't going to find everybody that agrees with your lifestyle.

Of course. I know I am often odd one out and that is why I particularly appreciate the gift of any kind of accommodation and consideration.

If you don't want to be challenged on your beliefs then maybe join a place that will always agree with you.

Even starting this thread I know I am inviting gross disrespect and attack. I can suck it up. (or maybe the thread will be ignored). But for diversity's sake and being an odd one out I thought I would put these thoughts in a thread of this title so that those who like to avoid, can avoid.

The cool thing about this place is that it has both Heterosexual Angels and Gay Demons.

Diversity is real life. Also demonic influences aren't limited to certain demographics.

The real God is one of Oneness- not of preaching or hypocritical morals or denouncing things everybody is going to do anyway. You don't get there by being religious or even "spiritual" but by Dark Night of the Souls and deeply exploring your Jungian Shadow and going through it - what most "Christians" are too cowardly and weak to do. It's also a selfish, inward battle- there is no external preaching with this because that tends to all be negative projections that stops true enlightenment from happening. These people that actually do this correctly- usually the people that Christians are most likely to condemn or write-off are 'sinners' - are actually the people that are living much closer to God's true words.

Well I am glad this can be a space for talking about religion.

The real Jesus broke bread with the prostitutes, the sinners, the homosexuals, the outcasts & weirdos society rejected for one reason or another. He didn't even say 'go sin no more' like a condescending douche. It might was 'written' like it was so by sinful heterosexuals that falsely interpreted Jesus' real teachings - but words mean nothing. Words are a veil. If they had any 'sins' - he cleansed them naturally without even speaking or saying anything- but merely accepting and loving them in his nondualistic presence of Oneness. He was also incredibly anti-Te and anti-establishment. Religion has rubbed people the wrong way for many years because people have corrupt Jesus' teachings for their own narcissism and need to look down on others. The real Jesus WEPT indeed.

I love what you wrote here particularly. Of course Jesus is the One who said "Go and sin no more", but yes, as you say, He did not just talk at people like that and we pretty much never hear Him discussing or addressing their sin. He went to them in love. Excepting maybe the woman at the well, but that was after talking to her with great love and respect, and being all-knowing, He knew just what she could hear.

Yes, and amen He looked at them with great love, just a look was enough for them to know that amazing love, and that that love was a Pearl of Great Price that moved the loved to want to sell/give up all they had previously loved because there is not love greater than this.

Here is the woman at the well story in scripture: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...+4&version=DRA

And here is a great treasure! A vision of the actual event, with all the details, which Maria Valtorta wrote as she was transported to that place in that time; exactly what she sees she describes as she sees it. She tells what the woman is like, what Jesus was like, and of course, everything they said in that conversation, including Jesus revealing He knows her thoughts. Because he knows all the thoughts of everyone. And He could refer to her sins because she already was bathed in His love. She has no doubt of it, enabling her to hear. (I love this story and have reread it many times!). http://philippians123.org/food-for-t...maritan-woman/

[Eliza Thomason]

I don't care if I have a "God" inside of me or not. I'm not interest in it so whether it does exist or not is not my concern. As a Te valuer, I love practical knowledge, what method has the highest chance of solving a technical problem. Understand something like God seem boring as fuck, I just need to understand myself instead.

God is irrelevant, even if it show its face right in front of me, unless it grant me some free wishes so I could make use of it.

So, like, it's all about you.

My Dad used to say, "Do you think you live in a vacuum?" Because we kids of course thought life was all about us; the world revolved around us. Think of a world where everyone thinks this way. Pretty horrible. It is the unselfish people that make our world tolerable. In Hell none of those unselfish people will be there. No one to trash. Every single being there will be all about self and getting from/at others. Everyone trying to have power over and do violence to everyone else. All alike. All the time. For eternity. People will choose that for their eternity, having learned to hate goodness in life. Going down that path and choosing never to examine it and never leave it. To the point of desiring only that path and not wanting to choose another in the end when given that choice.

[Eliza Thomason]

........................................

Why are these children so unhappy looking? That is what I thought when I first saw them. But these children of Fatima are gravely serious because they have been shown hell. A place of utter desolation and despair that is anything but a “party of sinners.”

[Socionics Is A Cult]

@Eliza Thomason
Religion is a form of superstition - not only belief in something without evidence, but something which cannot be evidenced.

I ask religious people to give the unique properties of the thing/s they believe that are not already known by another name, but they are never able to. To me, it really does seem like religion is nothing.

There's a foolish G.K. Chesterton quote that says “When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”

- I find this very revealing, because it shows that at least in his case, when he chose to believe in God, he was capable of believing anything. That is absolutely no way to live.

“Once your faith, sir, persuades you to believe what your intelligence declares to be absurd, beware lest you likewise sacrifice your reason in the conduct of your life. In days gone by, there were people who said to us: "You believe in incomprehensible, contradictory and impossible things because we have commanded you to; now then, commit unjust acts because we likewise order you to do so." Nothing could be more convincing. Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. If you do not use the intelligence with which God endowed your mind to resist believing impossibilities, you will not be able to use the sense of injustice which God planted in your heart to resist a command to do evil. Once a single faculty of your soul has been tyrannized, all the other faculties will submit to the same fate. This has been the cause of all the religious crimes that have flooded the earth.” ~ Voltaire

("Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities".)

[Socionics Is A Cult]

........................................

Why are these children so unhappy looking? That is what I thought when I first saw them. But these children of Fatima are gravely serious because they have been shown hell. A place of utter desolation and despair that is anything but a “party of sinners.”

Maybe it's because they took part in a fraud.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

So, like, it's all about you.

My Dad used to say, "Do you think you live in a vacuum?" Because we kids of course thought life was all about us; the world revolved around us. Think of a world where everyone thinks this way. Pretty horrible. It is the unselfish people that make our world tolerable. In Hell none of those unselfish people will be there. No one to trash. Every single being there will be all about self and getting from/at others. Everyone trying to have power over and do violence to everyone else. All alike. All the time. For eternity. People will choose that for their eternity, having learned to hate goodness in life. Going down that path and choosing never to examine it and never leave it. To the point of desiring only that path and not wanting to choose another in the end when given that choice.

Christianity is a slave cult devoted to a selfish being who is capable of preventing suffering but chooses not to.

[Tonatiuh]

Why are these children so unhappy looking?

Maby nuns pimped them out?

[Adam Strange]

Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?

Do you have cookies?

[Northstar]

I can’t believe in supernatural stuff, that circuitry just doesn’t seem to exist in my brain.

[gone]

Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?

I'm wondering this unironically

[Nobody]

Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?

My brain defaulted to this:

[ashlesha]

Christianity is a slave cult devoted to a selfish being who is capable of preventing suffering but chooses not to.

I can't imagine where I'd be without the shit suffering has taught me. Obviously l don't wanna trivialize it, like the holocaust was bad, lol, but haven't you ever fucked up and learned some shit? I know I'm not gonna bring you to Jesus, lol, but have a little nuance ffs.

[ashlesha]

Suffering is Good, Actually

[Tarnished]

Suffering is Good, Actually

So Heaven is a boring place? And you didn't need Jesus to save your ass?

[ashlesha]

So Heaven is a boring place? And you didn't need Jesus to save your ass?

lol, i don't think arguing is a good conversion method or anything if that's the hook you're aiming for, and the factual(tm) existence of God is kind of a boring topic to me. Have fun

[timber]

[Eliza Thomason]

Meaning is always found within, innit. To you it's everything, to some people it's nothing. You're supposed to value Fi here... so it's not hard to figure out. That's the way it goes for a lot of things. I sometimes want the entire world to dance along to Kylie Minogue's Better than Today like they were my sock puppets- but everybody has the freedom to choose.

Yes, and our conversation last night got me thinking about a memory again. I thought of it because I was pondering you "Heaven sounds like a Delta picnic and I don't want to spend eternity there!"

Then I remembered feeling the same way about boring Christian roommates next door to my room my freshman year of college. It was so good to be free and away from controlling parents. I was in the big converted suite room with 3 others and it was the fun room to congregate in. On our floor we did fun things like go out on weekends to drink at frat parties, where we were treated like celebrities as the new girls on campus. It was all so fun and un-restrictive compared to life at home and I loved it. The next door roommates were very nice, cheerful and polite and calm but never went out, and kept to a routine of studying and mature hours and seemingly little else, and I had no desire to know them any better, in their bland boringness. Only once did I see a different side of them.

That came after a frat party that had grain alcohol in koolaid which did not feel like alcohol, and we were so enthusiastically encouraged to keep drinking, and I obliged, til I realize how out of it I was, and with my roommate barely stumbled home. I really had trouble walking straight at all and I had never experienced anything like that. Somehow with much determination we made it to back and I to bed. I woke up in the night dreaming I was in Niagara Falls. The Falls were so loud and close that I woke up to the sound of them, and then realized it was me throwing up from the top bunk. Really a whole, whole lot of throwing up. I was completely week and sick and could hardly move, and all the lights went on and my roommates and the girls next door were all busy cleaning up all my throw up, changing the sheets and helping me change. I was definitely out of it at least for the whole next day. I was so grateful for all those nice roommates, and when better I went to thank the girls next door. I had never seen them animated about anything, but they were animated in asking me how I could drink like that, to drunk. Because it was fun? I was just answering honestly but that answer further animated them - how could anyone think it was fun when it made you get that stinking sick? Well they were right about drinking too much; I never drank that much again. But I didn't have any big regrets, as they seemed to think I should have. I didn't feel like the pitiful person they seemed to think I was for my choices. They weren't mean about it. They were nice, always nice. But they were scandalized.

So I remembering how uninteresting I thought they were made me relate to what you said.

I never drank a whole lot after that, really just because I got interested in other things, like sky diving (becasue I really was seeking excitement) and outdoor adventures and some travel, and other things, including changing my major every semester until I was forced to settle on something.

And thank God literally- for my free will to disobey "the authoritative father" and do my own thing. You shouldn't care so much that people don't like it so much as if God exists, only he can judge us anyway. Not yourself. You should just focus on being the best Christian you can be and not worry if other people are following along or not as when following the masses the m is silent. Heaven is naturally narrow anyway, and everybody's spiritual path is unique. "I just care about your eternal soul!" is condescending and not true, as you've tried to desexualize my unique soul to make yourself more comfortable. Or hypersexualize it to make you appear more righteous... Caring about something is a private Fi matter as it should be.

My husband's oldest granddaughter (whom her daughter had at 15 after which she got into drugs which traumatized her daughter's infant/toddler years) expresses the very same gratitude for free will, meaning free to do opposite of what she knows is right, and after leaving home at 18 for a series of druggie boyfriends and street life, has us all wondering if she will stay alive. Maybe I have felt the same way before and just don't remember it. Probably just to a different level since I have not had the early trauma she has had.

Yes, everyone's spiritual path is unique, that is true. Yes BandD, I do care about your eternal soul and like those Fatima children who have concern for the whole world after seeing hell. But BandD, how have I tried to desexualize you, or hypersexualize you? I honestly think not either. And it makes no sense how anyone can do both. Its like to opposite ends of a scale. I think I'm in the middle of that scale, doing neither. Anyway I don't get how anyone can do both). I realize you express yourself in that department here and I ignore that basically with you and others because that is me. It is not desexualizing you, it is my will to see people for who they are and I choose not to see some things that I feel aren't my business. I look at it dimly and blurred, as from far away. I try to find points of commonality and when someone is describing a sexual encounter I kind of skim to get tot eh conclusion of what they are trying to say. (Socionically I'm interested in the romantic styles of Delta/Alpha, Beta/Gamma becasue it even comes out in their relating dynamics and the essence of their personalities.)

This is my orientation. It comes from St. Mother Teresa who refused to refer to any person as homosexual. She would only use the term "Beloved of God". That struck me as correct and also how Jesus is, so that is how I treat/see everyone too,. So even though you are identify yourself that way, I "correct" in my mind for you, as for everyone. I don't like people to see me as "Eliza the hetero" because I publicly do not want to be identified for my private life that doesn't belong in public. I want to be seen as Eliza the whole person. In my own mind my main identify is being beloved of God. And I treat you the way I want to be treated. Maybe that is how you see yourself as desexualized by me?? But it is just my worldview.

[End]

It's a cognitive virus.

I could say the same of thine own worldview demon.

[SGF]

ALL HAIL Wōden THE ALL-FATHER!

[End]

You want to encourage the corrupt stock to keep spreading their genes, rather than leaving them to self-destruct?

In an ideal world the "corrupted stock" would repent and realize their ultimate role in God's plan. Again, I chose/see Saint Augustine as my Patron for many a darn good reason.

The man sinned, hard and unrepentantly, right up until he stopped doing that and repented. I mean listen to the arrogance of this mofo: "Lord give me chastity, but not yet" is his most famous quote. He sinned unrepentantly right up until he did not, became a monk, and survived the fall of Rome because the friggin' Vandals respected the kind of man/believer he became. Literal Vandals decided to not chuck rocks at, pillage, or firebomb what amounted to his private library/abode/village out of respect.

Parse that shit through your downright mistaken perception of Christ and those who follow him.

[Grendel]

In an ideal world the "corrupted stock" would repent and realize their ultimate role in God's plan. Again, I chose/see Saint Augustine as my Patron for many a darn good reason.

The man sinned, hard and unrepentantly, right up until he stopped. I mean listen to the arrogance of this mofo: "Lord give me chastity, but not yet" is his most famous quote. He sinned unrepentantly right up until he did not, became a monk, and survived the fall of Rome because the friggin' Vandals respected the kind of man/believer he became. Literal Vandals decided to not chuck rocks at, pillage, or firebomb what amounted to his private library/abode/village out of respect.

Parse that shit through your downright mistaken perception of Christ and those who follow him.

Yeah, ideal.

The most diseased subspecie of logic ever, it's optimism.

The requirement that faith be absolute completely disables the "But what if we're wrong?" voice that screams out in your head for a very good reason, and before you know it, generations have passed, over which adherence has dealt more and more damage to the world.


You know, I have a backup scenario for if it really does turn out your God is real. If he exists, then judging by the way I turned out, he obviously created me as a monster without a soul, or a demon or some shit, so my ass is going to hell no matter what, lol. In which case, I have nothing to be anxious about, since I have my whole life to prepare for the eternal agony of hell, and since nothing I do can prevent it, none of my choices matter. I don't have to worry - it's my destiny.

The less charitable reality for me is the one where he doesn't exist, because in that world, proper causality is in effect, our choices actually matter, and that demon of Choice gives us wrong-choices to agonize over. What if this crueller godless world really is the one we live in, huh? What if you don't actually have that bulwark of faith to back you up, and humanity really does have to deal with the consequences of that bad genetic practice? What then?

[Eliza Thomason]

Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?

No because i don't wonder that.

[End]

Yeah, ideal.

The most diseased subspecie of logic ever, it's optimism.

The requirement that faith be absolute completely disables the "But what if we're wrong?" voice that screams out in your head for a very good reason, and before you know it, generations have passed, over which adherence has dealt more and more damage to the world.


You know, I have a backup scenario for if it really does turn out your God is real. If he exists, then judging by the way I turned out, he obviously created me as a monster without a soul, or a demon or some shit, so my ass is going to hell no matter what, lol. In which case, I have nothing to be anxious about, since I have my whole life to prepare for the eternal agony of hell, and since nothing I do can prevent it, none of my choices matter. I don't have to worry - it's my destiny.

The less charitable reality for me is the one where he doesn't exist, because in that world, proper causality is in effect, our choices actually matter, and that demon of Choice gives us wrong-choices to agonize over. What if this crueller godless world really is the one we live in, huh? What if you don't actually have that bulwark of faith to back you up, and humanity really does have to deal with the consequences of that bad genetic practice? What then?

Sadly you have fallen to demonic logic. This can be but a temporary thing for you hopefully. As I've pointed out time and again many a true saint started and indeed lived most of their lives as beings seeming bound for deepest depths of hell. Yet either upon their death beds or by some strange twist of fate they became the greatest exemplars of the faith. Easiest case in point? Saint Paul. The most zealous, ardent, and downright effective persecutor of Christains became such a great evangelist that none have matched his work in that field since.

No because i don't wonder that.

:
The truth has no need to appeal to those who belong to the world. Either they see the truth and accept it, or they do not. Fun anecdote: The band "Stryper" got its name from a rather forced acronym. Mr. Sweet, however, had the right idea. You can either accept it or reject it. Those who accept will be saved. Those who reject will not by their own choice. I am quite thankful that I find the latter option literally and utterly incomprehensible...

[marooned]

No because i don't wonder that.

Some here write as if it is nothing. It shocks me when I read it, and I question if I have read mistakenly. But particularly in these times some have this view. It is hard to fathom, because religion, or God, is everything.

[Tonatiuh]

I could say the same of thine own worldview demon.

You would be inaccurate. Also, I am mine own redeemer.