Have you noticed duality to be more common between some types?

[Scarlett]

I read this article a while ago and agree with a lot of what the IEI writer says in it: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...gram-Dual-quot

Have a read!

Btw my ‘ideal’ SLE would be a 739..then 729/748. 712 and 749 sound fine too SLE 3s or 8s would be ok if we share one number in our tritype. (Or if they are my enneagram ‘dual’ according to her theory, e.g 826..I actually know loads of people of this tritype!)

I used to think about enneagram instincts in terms of ‘the stacks e.g so/sx’ (still kinda do) but I think it’d be easier (and more accurate typing?) for people to learn how to identify people’s tritype plus main instinct (social, sexual or self preservation). This is how Katherine Fauvre does it. Btw she discovered the tritype idea when she noticed that in her research, people kept telling her they related to 3 e-types rather than only 1.

But if we do use the stacks theory..so/sx, sp/so, sx/so and maybe sx/sp are fine for me (so/sx) and I think sp/sx and so/sp wouldn’t be so good, especially so/sp. All are ok as friends though.

There are not many resources on tritype but I will share the ones I know of a bit later in the enneagram section. I love tritype..

Yep, I knew that.
That actually explains why I'm always attracted to LSI.
I have a 5 in my tritype. 835. And most LSI's are enneagram 5. That's how we're attracted to each other, because we have similarity.
To quote Olimpia "Psychological studies usually conclude that Similarity is very important when it comes to people matching up; similarity in attractiveness, in background, in values, and so forth. Sharing one type in the Tritype creates an added sense of Similarity. People who share one type in the tritype usually have more similar interests, goals, and even childhoods or upbringings." That is so true.

Now, how many ESI's have a 5 in their tritype? None. You know what I mean. I'm not gonna go with the other type in my tritype, like 8 or 3, for an ESI? HAHA.

So, yeah, that is why, based on my experience, most of people whom I'm attracted to (or have dated): LSI, ILI, and even LII, and guess what, they're all enneagram 5. It's like a textbook, isn't it?


About the stacks theory,
If you're So/Sx, yes I agree So/Sx, Sx/So, and Sx/Sp are good match for you

[Bethanyclaire]

Yep, I knew that.
That actually explains why I'm always attracted to LSI.
I have a 5 in my tritype. 835. And most LSI's are enneagram 5. That's how we're attracted to each other, because we have similarity.
To quote Olimpia "Psychological studies usually conclude that Similarity is very important when it comes to people matching up; similarity in attractiveness, in background, in values, and so forth. Sharing one type in the Tritype creates an added sense of Similarity. People who share one type in the tritype usually have more similar interests, goals, and even childhoods or upbringings." That is so true.

Now, how many ESI's have a 5 in their tritype? None. You know what I mean. I'm not gonna go with the other type in my tritype, like 8 or 3, for an ESI? HAHA.

So, yeah, that is why, based on my experience, most of people whom I'm attracted to (or have dated): LSI, ILI, and even LII, and guess what, they're all enneagram 5. It's like a textbook, isn't it?


About the stacks theory,
If you're So/Sx, yes I agree So/Sx, Sx/So, and Sx/Sp are good match for you

Yes, I am e-9 and my tritype is 946. I am often attracted to guys with 4 or 6 in their tritype. But I have become more open-minded to e-7s..I suppose it is unlikely that Estps would have 4 or 6 in their tritype. Not impossible but there would only be a few possible tritypes (846, 826, 749, 369?) Because I have only seen Estp 3s, 8s and 7s..I don't think they come in other e-types lol. Haha I feel like such a nerd with all the numbers.

For ESI I have seen ennegaram type 1,2,4,6 and 9. And I'm sure some of these would have a 5 in their tritype.

(I think e-2 is uncommon for men though..?)

In the article it says that 8 is the enneagram dual for '459', '359', '145' or '135'. These types might like you if you found one lol.

[Scarlett]

Yes, I am e-9 and my tritype is 946. I am often attracted to guys with 4 or 6 in their tritype. But I have become more open-minded to e-7s..I suppose it is unlikely that Estps would have 4 or 6 in their tritype. Not impossible but there would only be a few possible tritypes (846, 826, 369?) Because I have only seen estp 3s, 8s and 7s..I don't think they come in other e-types lol. Haha I feel like such a nerd with all the numbers.

For ESI I have seen ennegaram type 1,2,4,6 and 9. And I'm sure some of these would have a 5 in their tritype.

In the article it says that 8 is the enneagram dual for '459', '359', '145' or '135'. These types might like you if you found one lol.

Lol. The problem is, I might not like them.

I'm serious though. Let's go with 145 and 135 first. Both are enneagram 1. I dislike e-1.
Seems like when you're e-8 you're someone who likes to be in charge and loves challenges, you would hate a perfectionist e-1. It's just they contradict with each other. Sooner or later you will realise it's not gonna work.

The 459? Hell to the no.
This is tripple withdrawn. The most socially withdrawn tritype I believe. They have the least amount of energy, easily drained by external environment.

And the 359? This. Is. Actually "my type". My LSI and LII ex's they're all this tritype. The LSI that I told you I'm often attracted to, they're mostly e5, tritype 593.

Anyway.

If we're talking about socionic dual, in my case an ESI, I don't think I can ever find an e-8, e-3, or e-5 ESI (if we want to share 1 type in tritype). The e-5 is possible but that would be tritype 459 which is a very withdrawn type, can't handle it, not my forte.
Anyway I always, always love e-7, but tbh I admire e-2.

And you know what, I was thinking,
If someone actually has a 2 and 7 in their tritype and the next number is the type that we actually share in our tritype, which is 8, that would be perfect!
In my case, dual is not possible, so I think I would go for my activation partner, SEE 278 Sx/So!

Haha.

So. You're 946 and you like guys with e-4 and e-6, that makes sense. Like dissolves like. We tend to like people who are like us. Again, similarity.
I'm an 835, and when I was young, I was often attracted to e-8 and e-3. My first boyfriend ever was actually an ESTP 738.
And I agree, most ESTP (SLE) they're all 7, 3, or 8. E-7s are FUN!

SLE with 4 or 6 in their tritype? Seems not possible. A dom-Se like SLE will most likely to have 7 instead of 6 in their tritype. And 3 instead of 4.
I also think e-8 is glued to their tritype. Can't imagine e-9 or e-1 in their tritype.

But if you're a 9 and you prefer to share 1 type in your tritype, your activator LSI would be perfect, because most of them I believe will have 9 in their tritype. That what makes them very laid back and easy going.
The 593.

[Bethanyclaire]

@Scarlett Thanks for your comments, again

Can I just say..that a 145 tritype doesn’t have to be e1? They could be e4 or e5..(but ESI don’t come in 5 pretty sure)

If we're talking about socionic dual, in my case an ESI, I don't think I can ever find an e-8, e-3, or e-5 ESI (if we want to share 1 type in tritype). The e-5 is possible but that would be tritype 459 which is a very withdrawn type, can't handle it, not my forte.
Anyway I always, always love e-7, but tbh I admire e-2.

I don’t know what you mean by this, soz! If you are 835 tritype (order of numbers doesn’t matter btw) then according to the article your enneagram dual is a 6. I know you said you don’t like them..But just pointing it out in case you haven’t noticed it in the article. Soz if I’m reverse supervising you!

In the article she suggests two things:

1. It is good to share one number in your tritype. E.g me -964 with let’s say a..631. We would share the number 6. (She is not saying that I'm suited to 9s,4s and 6s.
2. She has worked out the enneagram duals for each tritype using a ‘formula’..she doesn’t explain her workings out clearly and I had to figure out what she meant. It will hurt my brain to explain it- I might do it, but later haha. If one person in the couple, is the enneagram dual of another…it creates a sort of ‘glue’ she says.

Yes, it’s a shame that there aren’t many e2 males..I haven’t been looking but I can’t think of any I know?? Yes, SEEs can be e2 or have tritype 728. My sis is SEE e7 (tritype 728).

[Scarlett]

@Scarlett

Thanks for your comments, again

Can I just say..that a 145 tritype doesn’t have to be e1? They could be e4 or e5..(but ESI don’t come in 5 pretty sure)

‘If we're talking about socionic dual, in my case an ESI, I don't think I can ever find an e-8, e-3, or e-5 ESI (if we want to share 1 type in tritype). The e-5 is possible but that would be tritype 459 which is a very withdrawn type, can't handle it, not my forte.
Anyway I always, always love e-7, but tbh I admire e-2.’

I don’t know what you mean by this, soz! If you are 835 tritype (order of numbers doesn’t matter btw) then according to the article your enneagram dual is a 6. I know you said you don’t like them..But just pointing it out in case you haven’t noticed it in the article. Soz if I’m reverse supervising you!

In the article she suggests two things:

1. It is good to share one number in your tritype. E.g me -964 with let’s say a..631. We would share the number 6. (She is not saying that I'm suited to 9s,4s and 6s.
2. She has worked out the enneagram duals for each tritype using a ‘formula’..she doesn’t explain her workings out clearly and I had to figure out what she meant. It will hurt my brain to explain it- I might do it, but later haha. If one person in the couple, is the enneagram dual of another…it creates a sort of ‘glue’ she says.

Yes, it’s a shame that there aren’t many e2 males..I haven’t been looking but I can’t think of any I know?? Yes, SEEs can be e2 or have tritype 728. My sis is SEE 728.

Haha no problem!
I noticed that, and reject that haha. Not for me. I dislike someone with e-1 and e-6. Like ever.
Don't get me wrong, I have lots of friends who have 6 and 1 in their tritype, I'm ok with all types as friends/colleagues, but not as dates. Anyway. It's not possible though, I'm not naturally attracted to someone with e6, and e1 always constantly contradicts me.

I've rejected an ESI e6 in the past, I'm just not into him. And I've dated my supervisor an SLI who's an e1 and broke up not long after that.
Anyway it's not just because of that, somehow I always knew, it's just not for me. Anything but a 1 or 6.

So what I was saying, if could choose between the head centre, e5 or e6 or e7, I would choose either e5 or e7 in someone but never e6.
And the body centre, e8 or e9 or e1, I would choose either e8 or e9 but never e1.
And the heart centre, well, anything, I don't mind, but somehow I'm not too interested in dom-Fi with e4, too much feeling for me I guess.

Hahah

I have quite a few SEE friends, some of them are e2, most of them are e7. And they're all amazing. They're all female though.

Can I just add, when people actually have both 2 and 7 in their tritype, seems like they have sort of very pleasant, seductive air about them.
I actually just met a client, who, I suspect, had this combination, and boy did he have that charisma around him!
He's definitely an Se-dom.
I can't see a 1 in him (of course not), he must be either SEE 728 or SEE 729.
He's extremely magnetic, fun and sociable. And we get to know each other extremely quickly.

Anyway, 2 and 7 tend to be very enthusiastic types.
I find enthusiasm to be very attractive myself.

[Bethanyclaire]

Btw I actually think that sometimes 'sharing a number or especially MORE than one number in the tritype' can actually lead to an unhealthy relationship (but maybe a high amount of initial attraction!)..you can be 'too' similar'. I think this depends on your socionics type and your enneagram instincts.

It could be a good thing or a bad thing!

[Tarnished]

When I asked an ESI "what's your idea man", she described an imaginative man look like EIE. But she has never knowns an EIE in person, so she end up dating SLE, SEE all the time... She knowns some LIEs, but feels neutral towards them. She doesn't like someone who focus too much on business and money.

[Scarlett]

When I asked an ESI "what's your idea man", she described an imaginative man look like EIE. But she has never knowns an EIE in person, so she end up dating SLE, SEE all the time... She knowns some LIEs, but feels neutral towards them. She doesn't like someone who focus too much on business and money.

It's like asking me a question, what my ideal man, and I would definitely answer an LSI.
But I end up dating an ILI and SLI.

Translates:
the ideal man is your mirage, but end up dating your mirror and supervisor instead.

Oh yeah, true story though. I completely agree. When you're young you will never appreciate your dual. Ever.
It takes time, experience, and high level of maturity for an ESI to finally see that LIE is more than just someone who focus too much on business and money.

[Bethanyclaire]

Hahaha tritypes are fascinating aren’t they..

I have read a few comments on the forum made by people with the same tritype as me and it feels kinda spooky coz they talk in a way that feels familiar.

Yeah similarly to what you said I have gone for soft, sensitive types in the past..I usually go for people who I feel a ‘magical’ connection with- they often have a similar tritype to me (e.g too similar- 639/549). Didn’t work!

So, you don't go for 8s and 3s?
Remember I told you that when you're an e8, seems like e1 constantly contradicts you.
The same thing I think happens with e3, it kinda contradicts e6. Seems like if you have a high 3 in your tritype, you usually don't go for 6, unless if you have it both 3 and 6 in your tritype.
Maybe you're not into 3s because you have a high 6 in your tritype. Or you're so attracted to 6s, or something like that.

But 8s?
I think an 8 and 9 get on fine.

They say the best partner for e-8 is e-2, but many female 8s are usually with male 9s.

Interesting!!! I will have to mull this over..I think you are correct though.
Yeah I think I didn’t usually go for 8s for a few reasons..(kinda personal things) But one of them is that I just haven’t been around them much. I didn’t know what an Estp 8 looked like. I can think of one I ‘unmatched’ a while ago which is lame!

Nvm..one good thing I have realised is that 8s often like going to clubs, which I like, so I can at least look out for them there (I'm not that young but I still like clubs ) I think my ideal 8 tritype would be 826 or 846 and actually I know people of these tritypes..and an Esfp 826 seemed interested in me recently. Uh there is hope! I think I’d maybe prefer an Espf 8 to a 7 somehow.

I think I am also learning how to spot someone’s tritype from their facial features a bit?? Like I swear I just found an 836 online.

The thing that confuses me is…the instincts/ stacks.

So, I do believe you can roughly sort people into the 6 stacks. (At least I think people could put their own preferences of the instincts in an order??)

I can think of two Estps I have known with the same tritype (739). I would have said one guy was sp/sx (incompatible to my so/sx) and one guy was so/sx.
The sp/sx 739 was nearly 10 years younger than me and unbelievably cool and good looking (high 3sx??) with a bit of bad boy image. At the time when I met him, I didn’t know about socionics but even then I thought ‘nahhh wouldn’t have worked’ even if he was older…'

So I’m kinda worried now, if you meet someone who isn’t the right stack (for me sp/sx or so/sp) what are you supposed to think? That it’s doomed to fail?
Maybe it isn’t though and the ‘stacks’ are just kind of in ‘our head’?

Orrrr maybe certain tritypes are less likely to feel ‘clashy’ to us and be an incompatible stack.

Or maybe you do just have to trust your gut a bit when you first meet them. It’s hard because you won’t know if it is just normal duality friction at the start or if you really aren’t compatible?

Maybe like you said before about having 'high 6'..it's all just about compatibility within compatibility..so people came up with the idea of 'stacks' to roughly explain it. The strength of the numbers/ functions need to match up? (Or you just need to be on a similar 'wave length’ or something..be from similar backgrounds etc) Maybe DNCH can be used at this point, which I've never thought much about before..

ALSO I swear that a guy I know is an Estp 835 (he could be e3 though..) It’s funny..we get on..but he does kinda feel a bit like a conflictor sometimes :s

Btw..

Sometimes I feel like I’m in a dream when I talk about this stuff..it’s just all so weird..still! Haha

Reading over this I can see my tritype all over it. So much seeking and doubting like a typical 946

[Scarlett]

The thing that confuses me is…the instincts/ stacks.

So, I do believe you can roughly sort people into the 6 stacks. (At least I think people could put their own preferences of the instincts in an order??)

I can think of two Estps I have known with the same tritype (739). I would have said one guy was sp/sx (incompatible to my so/sx) and one guy was so/sx.
The sp/sx 739 was nearly 10 years younger than me and unbelievably cool and good looking (high 3sx??) with a bit of bad boy image. At the time when I met him, I didn’t know about socionics but even then I thought ‘nahhh wouldn’t have worked’ even if he was older…'

So I’m kinda worried now, if you meet someone who isn’t the right stack (for me sp/sx or so/sp) what are you supposed to think? That it’s doomed to fail?
Maybe it isn’t though and the ‘stacks’ are just kind of in ‘our head’?

Orrrr maybe certain tritypes are less likely to feel ‘clashy’ to us and be an incompatible stack.

Or maybe you do just have to trust your gut a bit when you first meet them. It’s hard because you won’t know if it is just normal duality friction at the start or if you really aren’t compatible?

Maybe like you said before about having 'high 6'..it's all just about compatibility within compatibility..so people came up with the idea of 'stacks' to roughly explain it. The strength of the numbers/ functions need to match up? (Or you just need to be on a similar 'wave length’ or something..be from similar backgrounds etc) Maybe DNCH can be used at this point, which I've never thought much about before..

ALSO I swear that a guy I know is an Estp 835 (he could be e3 though..) It’s funny..we get on..but he does kinda feel a bit like a conflictor sometimes :s

Btw..

Sometimes I feel like I’m in a dream when I talk about this stuff..it’s just all so weird..still! Haha

Reading over this I can see my tritype all over it. So much seeking and doubting like a typical 946

"If you meet someone who isn’t the right stack what are you supposed to think? That it’s doomed to fail?"
I'm an Sp/Sx, if I meet a Social person, So/Sx or So/Sp, I will notice right away and they actually kinda turn me off.
They make good friends, for sure, but I'm not interested in So/Sx or So/Sp in a romantic way.

For example, you know "my type" is an LSI right, and I have a close friend here an LSI, but I'm not attracted to him in a romantic way, ever.
He's personally such a true LSI, which is strange how I'm not into him at all. Then I realised he's an So/Sp. I need Sx for connection! Lol.

"Maybe like you said before about having 'high 6'..it's all just about compatibility within compatibility..so people came up with the idea of 'stacks' to roughly explain it."
Haha interesting.
Now that I think about it, I remember long time ago I rejected an ESI e-6, I just couldn't, I wasn't into him at all, like at all.
He's a social too! He's So/Sx.
Maybe that's why I can't with e-6. Most of them are So/Sx or So/Sp.

All of my previous relationship always with Sexual (Sx/Sp and Sx/Sp) or with other Sp/Sx like me.
And yes, I believe I'm naturally attracted to Sx/So, Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx only.

Haha.

It's amazing how two intuitives seem to immediately connect the dots between such disparate subjects.
IEI's are always pleasant to be with. I'm often fascinated by the mix between powerful emotions and cold logic.

[Bethanyclaire]

It's amazing how two intuitives seem to immediately connect the dots between such disparate subjects.
IEI's are always pleasant to be with. I'm often fascinated by the mix between powerful emotions and cold logic.

aww yes it's been a helpful discussion. My brain needs a lil rest now HA I love your description of IEI. I also like hanging out with LIE!

It's interesting to think that there are some cool, attractive triytpes that exist in non dual-types..

You know I also think that the instinct I'm attracted to can vary depending on the type. So that's something to think about too! E.g I think sx/so can be nice in a semi-dual and quite special. Where as I'd prefer same stack for duals I guess.

[Bethanyclaire]

I mentioned above somewhere that an Esfp 8 (social) seemed into me a while ago. You know what? I think he may have actually been a dual. I remember meeting him on a night out and his friend pointing out- ‘you guys are talking like you’ve known each other for years’. The next time I saw him I even spoke to him all about my ongoing romance troubles. He messaged me a bit and I think he was interested but I wasn’t in the right head space, also he’s younger and physically not really my type. But what did it feel like being around him? Like he was a really good mate, someone I would have hung out with as a child or something. Maybe that’s how 8s are for me, compared to 7s who feel exciting and 3s who intimidate me a bit.

[davideemccann]

thanks for this post, my problem has been fixed too.

[Bethanyclaire]

thanks for this post, my problem has been fixed too.

Np!


I’ve been thinking a bit more about it. Sorry if this repeats some of what has already been said.


I do think for duality, it seems important to be of the same instinct. Socials with socials, sexual with sexual and self preservation with self preservation.


Other than that, I reckon that duality is going to be at its best when the two people’s tritypes are more compatible.


A compatible tritype will mean:


-the couple share at least one number in the tritype, if there are two this is better (more likely to be same instinct?)


-certain tritypes are more suited to each other. For me, a 946, these are:


-Estp 826 (seems very compatible)
I seem to get on very well with this tritype- have had close friends of this type. (Eg. Enfp 268) It doesn’t surprise me as I get on well with 2s, 6s and 8s in general. (8s more recently)


-Estp 846 (seems very compatible)
I like people of this tritype and I think sharing the 4 adds a bit of intensity.


Also, in the article I shared earlier in the thread, it explains that 9 is the enneagram dual for these two types according to her theory. But I also know from my own observations that I get on well with these types.


-Estp 749
I think this would be my favourite. I like 7s a lot- I guess coz they have a romantic air about them. Bizarrely, all this thinking about tritypes has made me think of someone I have met before, who may be an Estp 749.


-Estp 845
This one could also work as it has 5 and I get on really well with 5s.


-Estp 369
In general I prefer 8s and 7s to 3s but I think this particular tritype would work fine. I have an Estp 369 in mind, who I met briefly and have just remembered now. Also, 369 is one of the special, balanced tritypes.


There are some other tritypes that may work (836, 739, 359) but something’s telling me they might not be quite right as the 3 may feel too prominent. 748 and 729 don’t seem quite right either. Also not sure about tritypes with a ‘1’ (714, 316). 825 could work as it is one of the ‘balanced’ tritypes. (There may be a proper term other than ‘balanced’.)


For non duals, a similar pattern may follow. (Not necessarily however!! As I have actually had some bad experiences with non-duals with similar tritypes to mine..e.g with lookalike or comparative who were far too similar to me)


Also I was thinking that some tritypes might be better for a non dual. E.g an Entp 739 sounds nice..I like 739s in general but it might be too intense in a dual but nicer in an Entp. I’m not sure of this but it’s just a thought.


Btw I don’t know if it matters about the order of the numbers in the tritype. I have just been writing them starting with the main type and then numerical order for second and third numbers.

Edit: I am questioning whether Estp 749 or Estp 846 actually would be compatible with me- it might be that this tritype is too similar to mine.

[Adam Strange]

Today I was listening to a male LSE talk about how tough it's been at work recently because he's overloaded, and a (new) female IEI overheard him and threw her arms around him and said "Big hug!".

The LSE instantly froze, and then when he was released, shifted his speech over to her and gave her a monologue consisting of a highly technical and excruciatingly detailed description of how his project is mechanically constructed. The IEI's eyes instantly glazed over.


Later, she (the IEI) was talking about how her role (quality control) is essential for ensuring that a product is built correctly and conforms to government standards. A male SLE said "We don't need no stinking quality control documents. That's what the D stands for in R & D. Freedom to try stuff."
"Oh yeah?", she said. "Here." She gave him the finger. He looked at her, mildly surprised.

Later I saw them bouncing down the hall together, happily in pursuit of something.

[Dr PissBender]

Today I was listening to a male LSE talk about how tough it's been at work recently because he's overloaded, and a (new) female IEI overheard him and threw her arms around him and said "Big hug!".

The LSE instantly froze, and then when he was released, shifted his speech over to her and gave her a monologue consisting of a highly technical and excruciatingly detailed description of how his project is mechanically constructed. The IEI's eyes instantly glazed over.


Later, she (the IEI) was talking about how her role (quality control) is essential for ensuring that a product is built correctly and conforms to government standards. A male SLE said "We don't need no stinking quality control documents. That's what the D stands for in R & D. Freedom to try stuff."
"Oh yeah?", she said. "Here." She gave him the finger. He looked at her, mildly surprised.

Later I saw them bouncing down the hall together, happily in pursuit of something.

This is wholesome. The kind of wholesome stuff that never happens to me.

[Lolita]

Enneagrams deals with trauma and core fears, it's not in-born. It's just weird and wrong to misuse it as a way to determine relationship compatibility since Enneagrams came from a place of wanting to identify and analyze psychological disorders. A person's enneagram doesn't deter from duality and the fact is, people don't always want to dualize.

[Bethanyclaire]

@Lolita some thoughts..

But at some point e-type does become fixed? You could argue that socionics is also about dealing with fears..people acting a certain way because this is how they are programmed to survive. You have your tritype in your bio right? Do you not think there is a link between that tritype and you being a high ti user?

Enneagram/tritype is useful for some people to think about as it suits their brains more than socionics, also it simplifies aspects of the psyche down into neat pieces (instincts/stacks, e-type, tritype), which seem easier to compare than comparing socionics types. I see learning about tritype as a kind of a short cut to understanding people rather than learning in-depth socionics. Both socionics and enneagram confused me at first- and gave me unrealistic ideas about compatibility. But you learn from mistakes I guess.

Perhaps it is true that if you put two healthy duals together for long enough, they would eventually dualise? But, in reality it is probably going to be far easier for people to dualise who have some other things in common/or compatible differences, aside from being duals. Perhaps, this can be explained by enneagram/tritype. I haven’t made enough observations to know if I believe it yet. Atm, I am interested in tritype compatibility based on some ideas from the enneagram dual thread.

Also, it’s not easy to spot someone’s tritype but I think if you’re around someone long enough, it will click. (Also need to test this out more )

[Lolita]

@Lolita some thoughts..

But at some point e-type does become fixed? You could argue that socionics is also about dealing with fears..people acting a certain way because this is how they are programmed to survive. You have your tritype in your bio right? Do you not think there is a link between that tritype and you being a high ti user?

Enneagram/tritype is useful for some people to think about as it suits their brains more than socionics, also it simplifies aspects of the psyche down into neat pieces (instincts/stacks, e-type, tritype), which seem easier to compare than comparing socionics types. I see learning about tritype as a kind of a short cut to understanding people rather than learning in-depth socionics. Both socionics and enneagram confused me at first- and gave me unrealistic ideas about compatibility. But you learn from mistakes I guess.

Perhaps it is true that if you put two healthy duals together for long enough, they would eventually dualise? But, in reality it is probably going to be far easier for people to dualise who have some other things in common/or compatible differences, aside from being duals. Perhaps, this can be explained by enneagram/tritype. I haven’t made enough observations to know if I believe it yet. Atm, I am interested in tritype compatibility based on some ideas from the enneagram dual thread.

Also, it’s not easy to spot someone’s tritype but I think if you’re around someone long enough, it will click. (Also need to test this out more )

Enneagram isn't in-born (that's EIE lenses) but yes, it's developed over time based on the person's experiences so their enneagram becomes fixed in adulthood. At no point did Ichazo or Naranjo say that enneagrams is in-born. This is why they used the specific word "fixation" meaning that it's an obsession. You're not born obsessed. You become obsessed over time. That's not the same as cognition which is actually in-born, because that describes how the person is wired (although it doesn't describe why they're wired that way).

Yeah, I have my tritype, but I didn't figure it out. I had 5 duals and 2 identicals independently came up with my tritype. An identical, a benefactor, a supervisor, 2 duals, and 2 kindreds actually typed me as 8 core from knowing me for 2 or more years and they're very well versed in enneagrams. My enneagram and tritype doesn't determine my socionics type, since they're separate. Enneagrams talks about the ego's fears (mainly irrational fears) and taps into a person's emotions. That's not the same as thinking. Socionics explains a person's cognitive motivations. All enneagrams does is give another dimension to understanding a person but it doesn't explain how one set of fears can be "compatible" with another. Fear is fear. Some people can overcome them, some can't. Enneagram is totally self-focused, while Socionics is more about relations and society-focused.

I guess I am a "high" level Ti user, but I don't get pedantic and unlike Ti valuers, I don't care about finding endless info to answer a question that's already been answered before. If you're referring to the naturally hostile attitude people take towards their PoLR and equating it with fear and linking that to enneagram, then no, I'm not scared of Ti, however, it's still my PoLR. I'm just a subtype of SEE that has developed shadow functions. Some people who have developed PoLR functions don't get affected by it much, and for some, it's more intense. Enneagram may be able to explain why the individual has that level of intensity of being (negatively) affected by their PoLR, but doesn't determine it. I don't think I ever was scared of Ti, since my dad is LSI and he taught me Ti all my life. I work in the legal field, that's heavily Ti (but also Te) and I really enjoy it. This isn't to say that because I have developed Ti as SEE-N that another SEE-N is going to be at the same level of Ti development as I am. N subtype just means engagement with Ti, so whether Ti is the type's PoLR or lead, it doesn't matter, it is just a way to identify that the person has Ti accentuation.

One's mental health doesn't eradicate duality. It just happens. I've dualize with some who weren't at their best and over time we became friends. Duality doesn't mean there's an actual personal relationship, although it could develop into one over time. The point of duality is to provide each other assistance while one or both are in stressful situations. Think of it in terms of having an ally during tough times.

[Bethanyclaire]

Enneagram isn't in-born (that's EIE lenses) but yes, it's developed over time based on the person's experiences so their enneagram becomes fixed in adulthood. At no point did Ichazo or Naranjo say that enneagrams is in-born. This is why they used the specific word "fixation" meaning that it's an obsession. You're not born obsessed. You become obsessed over time. That's not the same as cognition which is actually in-born, because that describes how the person is wired (although it doesn't describe why they're wired that way).

Um I suppose so, but I did think maybe sociotype might not be exactly inborn, and could still change in the first few months of life or something, when the parent bonds with the child. Or maybe it is just the enneagram type that begins to develop in response to the environment the baby finds itself in. It does seem like there’s some definite correlations between sociotypes and e-types though. Sociotypes are a product of evolution (response to environment) and enneagram is also response to environment. They both deal with the same data? I thought that maybe enneagram (tritype) can be seen to represent which functions are emphasised in a type. A bit like DCNH does. The emphasis might only be slight, but it could be significant for finding a dual you are compatible with. Or even more significant for finding a non-dual partner. What you said about enneagram tapping into a person’s emotions and being more focused on the self..it’s true- it’s more of an instinct in someone? Also, I think the order of the tritype means something. I plan on going back to the enneagram dual thread to talk more about compatibility there. But essentially @myresearch was talking about how each number in the tritype can be associated with certain values or qualities. You can use the triads (hornevian, harmonic and object relations) to identify these.

946 for example, may be associated with ‘fears’ of each separate type like separation, lack of identity, lack of support but a person will go to great lengths to avoid/challenge those fears- a 9 for example, will act ‘withdrawn’/ take on a ‘positive outlook’ and also become very ‘attached’ to people. (these descriptors are from the triads). The 4 and 6 parts do other things. So maybe a 946 is best with a tritype which complements these obsessions/imbalances.

Yeah, I have my tritype, but I didn't figure it out. I had 5 duals and 2 identicals independently came up with my tritype. An identical, a benefactor, a supervisor, 2 duals, and 2 kindreds actually typed me as 8 core from knowing me for 2 or more years and they're very well versed in enneagrams. My enneagram and tritype doesn't determine my socionics type, since they're separate. Enneagrams talks about the ego's fears (mainly irrational fears) and taps into a person's emotions. That's not the same as thinking. Socionics explains a person's cognitive motivations. All enneagrams does is give another dimension to understanding a person but it doesn't explain how one set of fears can be "compatible" with another. Fear is fear. Some people can overcome them, some can't. Enneagram is totally self-focused, while Socionics is more about relations and society-focused.

I guess I am a "high" level Ti user, but I don't get pedantic and unlike Ti valuers, I don't care about finding endless info to answer a question that's already been answered before. If you're referring to the naturally hostile attitude people take towards their PoLR and equating it with fear and linking that to enneagram, then no, I'm not scared of Ti, however, it's still my PoLR. I'm just a subtype of SEE that has developed shadow functions. Some people who have developed PoLR functions don't get affected by it much, and for some, it's more intense. Enneagram may be able to explain why the individual has that level of intensity of being (negatively) affected by their PoLR, but doesn't determine it. I don't think I ever was scared of Ti, since my dad is LSI and he taught me Ti all my life. I work in the legal field, that's heavily Ti (but also Te) and I really enjoy it. This isn't to say that because I have developed Ti as SEE-N that another SEE-N is going to be at the same level of Ti development as I am. N subtype just means engagement with Ti, so whether Ti is the type's PoLR or lead, it doesn't matter, it is just a way to identify that the person has Ti accentuation.

Enneagram is about the ‘ego’s fears’ and ‘fixations’. Ok- the word fixations makes me think of the lead function in socionics (or ego block?). We do fixate on these things, they seem to be what drives us to get up every day and keep going even when times are hard. We also seem to fixate on the third function, (we wish we were better at it). What you said is interesting- comparing enneagram fears to the polr/4th function. I don’t think I was thinking about that. I just meant that humans are acting on deep instincts to survive- we are programmed to survive. (Btw have a look at this article which is talking about the fourth function but comparing it to the HA? Is that right @Rebelondeck? My Take on Hidden Agenda (socionics.com))

Maybe you can see the rejection of the polr as similar to enneagram fears yeah. And the 1^st, 2^nd and 3^rd function as the defense mechanisms or fixations that we use to deal with that fear. Maybe it’s like fight or flight and in your case, with better than average ti, you fight. I dunnoooo. Lol.

You’ve mentioned shadow functions as did someone else in the thread. This makes me think of MBTI, as I remember reading about shadow functions then. (I do wonder if looking back at mbti might be helpful for me, for streamlining and consolidating some of the socionics knowledge I’ve gained.) Socionics is too much sometimes lol.

If enneagram taps into someone’s emotions, then maybe it can be used for helping discover compatibility? Because your emotions are a big part of you. Let’s compare DCNH with tritype as an idea..I would be harmonising meaning, I have accentuated si and ni. This kind of makes sense for my 946 tritype, known for being anxious and identity seeking (si is to do with feelings in the body? Ni is to do with finding answers?) For you, when I saw your tritype it just made me remember that you had talked about having accentuated ti. 836 seems ti-ish in my mind. I associate 836 with the politics/military and you seem to like discussing political aspects of socionics or let’s say the way the ideas comment on structures in society, and you seem quite passionate about it, ready and willing to fight to have your ideas heard. You will see in the enneagram dual thread that we worked out that my tritype matches up with yours quite well, though ideally I would be with an 836, not 863. Not quite sure why the order matters..but maybe an 836 SEE/SLE would be more likely to be a creative subtype, and therefore more compatible with me (or 964 maybe with you!). Or maybe all that matters is that the 8 is first. Really though, we need to look at the ideas about the triads to compare these tritypes. I guess for the moment I am just trying to show how ennegram can be about emotions/identity like you say.

One's mental health doesn't eradicate duality. It just happens. I've dualize with some who weren't at their best and over time we became friends. Duality doesn't mean there's an actual personal relationship, although it could develop into one over time. The point of duality is to provide each other assistance while one or both are in stressful situations. Think of it in terms of having an ally during tough times.

It's interesting you say this. I hope that’s the case. Sometimes I do think that my lack of success and lack of development might stop me from finding a dual, or a partner. Although I suppose there are lot of other semi-healthy people out there too. And I guess the most important thing is that I feel like I’ve overcome a lot of my problems. Being around good people can really bring out a different side to you as well.

It’s interesting..I suppose from an evolutionary point of view, animal instinct to survive, is what made different types and duals come to exist? For humans to survive, we needed variety and cooperation. Like your comment about sociotype being related to society and relations. Regarding the different ITR..I think there are probably just pros and cons to the different ITR (or the top ones). Maybe other non-dual ITR are proof of humanity's need to live and enjoy life rather than just survive. Our fixations (lead functions) are what drive us, if we didn’t have fixations would we have any fire to drive us? And maybe being different to each other, rubbing against each other, is also kind of a friction that holds us together. Or makes life interesting! I remember in group therapy the teacher said to us that it is our ability to imagine the future (and reflect?) (our fixations??) that makes us human. (Foresee something bad/good happening). Maybe it is also our ability to see value in our differences as well. Soz that's kinda jumbled but yeah.

[myresearch]

Enneagram isn't inborn so is attachment style. Yet, attachment style is an important factor of compatibility, because how we adapt to people and form relationships in our childhood and adolescence determines how are going to interact with our partner when we are adult. Enneagram also show how we interact with external, people, etc, hence it affects the compatibility.

How a person learns to live in external world in their earliest memories have a great impact on how someone's brain is wired and what kind of people they are going to match in the future and relationship compatibility.

[Bethanyclaire]

You can also compare enneagram compatibility to DCNH compatibility. (I have read that H and C go together, and D and N go together).

[The Banana King]

I wonder if LII-ESE is uncommon. I've met an LII man which became a family friend because of my ESE brother. I think the only reason why he got introduced to people was because of my brother. Maybe he liked that, or maybe he doesn't, but either way he's just not a natural gregarious type. He is so friendly and amiable but doesn't have any social media account. He would always visit us but suddenly he just disappeared. My brother is very friendly and would chat people all the time, but he can't really do much because he doesn't know how to contact him.

I know an ILE-SEI dual. I think it's easy when the SEI is interested in science or in a teaching field. If they stay in that lane, there would be no external obstacle at all.

I think Ne-Si pairings are preferred by the current culture. Ni-Se are mostly labeled as uncultured or forceful. So I think Ni-Se pairings are way rarer than Ne-Si. Also, female - Si, Ni, Fe, Fi, male - Se, Ne, Ti, Te. I think that has an effect. If the male is E, the duality is more probable too. (So maybe, ILE m - SEI f, SLE m - IEI f?)

Actually I'd say that Ni-Se pairings are quite common, especially Se guy. Basically because Se men are the stereotype of masculinity. Even ugly guys that act masculine get girlfriends. Typically an Ni girlfriend who forgives appearance (Si unvalued) in exchange for valued Se.

Ne men being relatively childlike are generally unappealing to most women (except caregiver types). And even then if they don't look handsome or cute then even caregivers don't want em lol. As an Ne guy I naturally developed my Se somewhat in order to get women to like me cuz seriously even my duals thought I was just a lame ass nerd. Well now I'm a lame ass nerd that acts cocky but it works so whatever.
Anyways from the experiences I had I suppose that Ne men are generally less wanted than other types. Also E men have an easier time than I men because men are expected to initiate. And therefore extroverts feel quite comfortable doing this in the same way that Se men feel quite comfortable in acting cocky and aggressive.
So generally the more someone conforms to gender stereotypes, the more likely they can find their dual (assuming of course they are straight lol). But it's more of a probability thing (dating being a game of numbers) rather than unique to types.

And about the LII and ESE pair, I have seen many of them. Somehow it feels like a very natural pair. The ESE of course is the one initiating. I haven't met an LII woman ESE man pair. Mostly because ESE guys are all gay lol (the few ones I met at least, don't mean to offend haha).

Anyways this is my point of view from a more general public kinda sense. I can see how Ne-Si pairings occur more frequently in settings where Ne types congregate. In a Ne-dominant environment the ones getting laid aren't the most aggressive or those who possess the most resources but rather the most imaginative, witty ones etc. As a general rule people are attracted to others at 'the top of the social hierarchy'. But of course this differs depending on the social group. Just a bit of wisdom I gathered from being a lame nerd at the bottom of the totem pole in HS to a guy who was well-liked in college lol.

[The Banana King]

I don’t know about other IxIs but ugly but aggressive is a no lol. Almost everyone has a standard. But anyway I like the appearance of the Se egos I know (don’t know about SEEs I always miss them but ESI, SLE). They look a bit rugged but they aren’t ugly to me, actually most of them are on the top of the scale. I don’t know why maybe because they just know how to present themselves. I don’t think others think they are ugly too specially some SLEs they just get the women. But I get what you mean, it’s because sometimes they are upfront enough to approach the woman. Also they are relatively more striking.

The ESE guys I know aren’t gay for sure but they just act like one sometimes. One even takes some too girly phrases but it’s just because for fun or to blend in the convo.

Oh definitely S types gain presentation points. Some N types are gross. Like dudes with dirty nails or the typical IT dude that never heard of deodorant lol (used to be me).
So guys like SLE rarely lack confidence so even if they don't look so good they just kinda get women because they don't even second guess themselves. On the other hand take a pretty EII guy with low confidence and guess which one gets more ladies. So I think confidence in general is a good predictor at least of short term relationships or 'initiation' of a relationship. I would say EII guys have much higher quality in their relationships because of Fi lead. They can naturally 'make it work' no matter the person. So it's a quantity vs quality thing I suppose.

[Dr PissBender]

Oh definitely S types gain presentation points. Some N types are gross. Like dudes with dirty nails or the typical IT dude that never heard of deodorant lol (used to be me).
So guys like SLE rarely lack confidence so even if they don't look so good they just kinda get women because they don't even second guess themselves. On the other hand take a pretty EII guy with low confidence and guess which one gets more ladies. So I think confidence in general is a good predictor at least of short term relationships or 'initiation' of a relationship. I would say EII guys have much higher quality in their relationships because of Fi lead. They can naturally 'make it work' no matter the person. So it's a quantity vs quality thing I suppose.

I get pussy just because i am charming af and I guess handsome. But i am a creep, honestly. Still I am better than all Se types, smarter and all around cooler. Sensors should bow to us.

[Dr PissBender]

That's not my experience at all. I don't think I'm more or less appealing than any other male because of Ne. The place I grew up/live is filled Si lead females. Maybe that affected how I perceive my role concerning courtship, because I had those objectifying experiences like girls talking loudly in the bus about how nice my butt looked, older women saying that they'd like 'to get me' if only I was their age or random girls coming to me and asking if they can sit on my lap. What's sure is that I'm not interested in 'getting' anyone, but finding a partner to soothe the loneliness and get some support would be nice tho.

I also have SLI girls ask me on a date from time to time; but as I said before in the thread, I doubt they can give me what I need so I just ignore them, and then regret the passed opportunity and kick myself for my own indecisiveness later lol.

SLI girls asking you on dates? Teach me your ways, senpai. This land is filled with pretentious Se hoes who just want my cock for one night. Tho I feel you are more "suave" than me, i'm the Spider Jerusalem kind of IEE.

[Dr PissBender]

Lol, you're the tank kind of IEE (i still think you're EII-Fi D, but whatever)



I guess I just try to be respectful and the girls feel safe because they sense I'm not gonna push them to anything. I guess it's the law of 'the less you ask for it, the easier you get it'. Personally my problem is that I don't even know if I want it until it's too late. I actually need a girl that can convince me to get with her, so I guess I'm not the standard 'pushing for p****y' kind of guy. The drive is there though

Me as a Se polr is just really fucking weird, even for you. I'd accept IEI over EII, still, i am in no way an introvert.

I don't push ever. What I mean is that I don't ever find SLI girls where I live.

[Dr PissBender]

Hmm functions are spectrums, EII's Polr is actually Se-/Si+(beta Se & alpha Si). I sense you have strengthened Se+/Si- which is HA of EII. The introverted EII only use Si- but since you're the extraverted EII, you use Se+(gamma Se). You use your HA like LIE basically.

SLI women are pretty much everywhere....

That is weird. But realistic. It makes sense. Still think I'm Ne lead though, Fi ain't as strong as to be my leading function. And no way i'm IJ temperament.

[Dr PissBender]

+ Se - retention of power, insubordination, defense, firmness, defense of one's interests, strong-willed pressure from the bottom upwards, strength, will, possession;

The theory behind that spectrum stuff is Model B (Bukalov) of socionics. Read about it here. The way I see it, Se+(Gamma, concrete Se) is the "awareness of strength" compared to Se-(Beta, abstract Se) which is the "awareness of power". Strength enables you to rely on yourself to push for what you want, to get up when you've fallen down, to take the blows of life, to take intiative, to never give up. It's what Arnie talks about in this video(I'd type arnie as LIE-Te, so he has the same boosted Se+/Si- HA as EII-Fi):



LSE has Se+/Si- as creative and Se-/Si+ as demonstrative.

Se-(beta) is about power because it's not about some concrete sense of will, but about some abstract sense of pressure. You don't have to be strong to win or control people, you can control them by being weak and sneaky too. By playing the victim. By blaming a scapegoat. By hitting the man who's already on the ground. There is no sense of Se+ integrity with Se-. It's you win or you loose. If you don't use all you got to win, you'll loose. Hard stuff. Explains all that shitty cruel stuff betas do to each others.

From this page:



@Dr PissBender that might interest you too. If you're IEE-Ne like me, then Se+/Si- would be your suggestive.

I know an EII-Fi like this, he's very gamma, used to think he was ESI.

How would the need of Se+/Si- display on us then?

[Dr PissBender]

Well, it's the most repressed function in IEE-Ne. Personally I tie it to lack of initiative, failure to protect material interests, dislike to impose oneself and not knowing how to relax.

Yeah, I see those things as boring tasks or shit to do. I'd rather have everything handed to me.

[aciaradh]

+ Se :Se: - retention of power, insubordination, defense, firmness, defense of one's interests, strong-willed pressure from the bottom upwards, strength, will, possession;

The theory behind that spectrum stuff is Model B (Bukalov) of socionics. Read about it here. The way I see it, Se+(Gamma, concrete Se) is the "awareness of strength" compared to Se-(Beta, abstract Se) which is the "awareness of power". Strength enables you to rely on yourself to push for what you want, to get up when you've fallen down, to take the blows of life, to take intiative, to never give up. It's what Arnie talks about in this video(I'd type arnie as LIE-Te, so he has the same boosted Se+/Si- HA as EII-Fi):



LSE has Se+/Si- as creative and Se-/Si+ as demonstrative.

Se-(beta) is about power because it's not about some concrete sense of will, but about some abstract sense of pressure. You don't have to be strong to win or control people, you can control them by being weak and sneaky too. By playing the victim. By blaming a scapegoat. By hitting the man who's already on the ground. There is no sense of Se+ integrity with Se-. It's you win or you loose. If you don't use all you got to win, you'll loose. Hard stuff. Explains all that shitty cruel stuff betas do to each others.

From this page:



@Dr PissBender that might interest you too. If you're IEE-Ne like me, then Se+/Si- would be your suggestive.

Sweet, thank you so much! I had definitely read about the different-signed functions before, but not specifically when it came to Model B, so that's a huge help. That sounds quite a lot like my interactions with my SLE dad though. I've talked a bit about it on the site before, but him being my conflictor/super-ego in addition to being Se- ego made for some hellish arguments. It's like no matter how much pressure you apply upwards/how in the right you are, you can't win as the Ti hierarchy doesn't allow for subordinates to "break rank." And you keep getting hit once you're down, as requests for them to stop screaming at you only fuel the anger and pressure applied.

But I really relate to that description; even though I have low stereotypical Se, I very much have a sense of willpower, defense, etc. So thanks for that, guess I might be EII-Fi after all :)

[Dr PissBender]

Actually I'd say that Ni-Se pairings are quite common, especially Se guy. Basically because Se men are the stereotype of masculinity. Even ugly guys that act masculine get girlfriends. Typically an Ni girlfriend who forgives appearance (Si unvalued) in exchange for valued Se.

Ne men being relatively childlike are generally unappealing to most women (except caregiver types). And even then if they don't look handsome or cute then even caregivers don't want em lol. As an Ne guy I naturally developed my Se somewhat in order to get women to like me cuz seriously even my duals thought I was just a lame ass nerd. Well now I'm a lame ass nerd that acts cocky but it works so whatever.
Anyways from the experiences I had I suppose that Ne men are generally less wanted than other types. Also E men have an easier time than I men because men are expected to initiate. And therefore extroverts feel quite comfortable doing this in the same way that Se men feel quite comfortable in acting cocky and aggressive.
So generally the more someone conforms to gender stereotypes, the more likely they can find their dual (assuming of course they are straight lol). But it's more of a probability thing (dating being a game of numbers) rather than unique to types.

And about the LII and ESE pair, I have seen many of them. Somehow it feels like a very natural pair. The ESE of course is the one initiating. I haven't met an LII woman ESE man pair. Mostly because ESE guys are all gay lol (the few ones I met at least, don't mean to offend haha).

Anyways this is my point of view from a more general public kinda sense. I can see how Ne-Si pairings occur more frequently in settings where Ne types congregate. In a Ne-dominant environment the ones getting laid aren't the most aggressive or those who possess the most resources but rather the most imaginative, witty ones etc. As a general rule people are attracted to others at 'the top of the social hierarchy'. But of course this differs depending on the social group. Just a bit of wisdom I gathered from being a lame nerd at the bottom of the totem pole in HS to a guy who was well-liked in college lol.

It is true. If you are not a good looking Ne type. You are castrated. Si egos are superficial as fuck as they are dumb HAHAHA

I also had to develop high ego and cockyness to get laid, so... I relate. I'm good at it and they buy it, while inside i am suffering and just want mommy gf.

[The Banana King]

It is true. If you are not a good looking Ne type. You are castrated. Si egos are superficial as fuck as they are dumb HAHAHA

I also had to develop high ego and cockyness to get laid, so... I relate. I'm good at it and they buy it, while inside i am suffering and just want mommy gf.

You're from Argentina, right? No wonder you can't find SLI gf. Like 80% of people there are Betas. I think I met 2 SLI over the course of 15 years there lol. And I met maybe 3 SEI. Out of maybe hundreds of people I analyzed. It's such a Se-Fe society it's not even funny: the politics, the drama, the egotism, etc. Part of the reason I moved out of the country was that I couldn't mesh with my own people

[The Banana King]

That's not my experience at all. I don't think I'm more or less appealing than any other male because of Ne. The place I grew up/live is filled Si lead females. Maybe that affected how I perceive my role concerning courtship, because I had those objectifying experiences like girls talking loudly in the bus about how nice my butt looked, older women saying that they'd like 'to get me' if only I was their age or random girls coming to me and asking if they can sit on my lap. What's sure is that I'm not interested in 'getting' anyone, but finding a partner to soothe the loneliness and get some support would be nice tho.

I also have SLI girls ask me on a date from time to time; but as I said before in the thread, I doubt they can give me what I need so I just ignore them, and then regret the passed opportunity and kick myself for my own indecisiveness later lol.

That means you're hot bro, congratz.
That reminds me of this IEE guy I knew. Tall, hot, blonde dude who was sooo awkward in general dealing with women it was hilarious lol. Only caregiver types liked him because he gave these passive sorta vibes that were a bit of a turnoff for most.

[The Banana King]

Hmmm I always thought that randy Si doms acted like that with all Ne types once they decide to shave & put on decent clothes.

I'm not really hot but i think I may look "cute and harmless" which makes me look "easy to get". Some months ago I was at that birthday and spilled juice on my shirt (because I started talking before i had swallowed) and the rather gorgeous girl next to me(some alpha Si type) started giggling and wanted to "help me clean" my shirt while looking at me with the expression 'OhOohoohooOo he dirtied his shirt pls let me adopt you'. That kind of turned me off bc being treated like a pet or a child isn't a kink I have; I prefer someone who can hold a real deep discussion.

bruh you're living the dream
Also, how do you even begin talking with juice in your mouth... I mean. Seriously hahahah. Either IxE-Ne have terrible body control or I'm not a Ne lead after all
I can get spilling liquid when you're drinking and something funny happens so you start laughing and the liquid comes out your nose. That's happened so many times to me lol

[Dr PissBender]

bruh you're living the dream

YEAH LIKE WTF AND HE WON'T APPRECIATE IT?!?!?!?! MOTHERFUCKER

[Dr PissBender]

That means you're hot bro, congratz.
That reminds me of this IEE guy I knew. Tall, hot, blonde dude who was sooo awkward in general dealing with women it was hilarious lol. Only caregiver types liked him because he gave these passive sorta vibes that were a bit of a turnoff for most.

See? I'm not awkward at all dealing with women but i'm not tall and i actually look like a murderer, but some women find it hot, some SLI told me i'm the "attractive psycho type".

[Lolita]

And about the LII and ESE pair, I have seen many of them. Somehow it feels like a very natural pair. The ESE of course is the one initiating. I haven't met an LII woman ESE man pair. Mostly because ESE guys are all gay lol (the few ones I met at least, don't mean to offend haha).

LOL ESE guys aren't really "gay" or gay looking per se but they're a bit too perky and excitable and loud. The thing with ESE is that they're bossy and pushy, and bulldozing. Not only are they linear assertive, they get ultra enthusiastic and get really loud about it. G is an LII and I'm willing to bet he knew what his dual is like and avoided them, which was why he married his semi-dual. For a logical, it's easier for them to get with their semi-dual over dual for some reason. I think ESE wants LII but they're so pushy that irl LII wouldn't want that. I can see ESE working much better with LSI and having a more natural relationship.

[The Banana King]

LOL ESE guys aren't really "gay" or gay looking per se but they're a bit too perky and excitable and loud. The thing with ESE is that they're bossy and pushy, and bulldozing. Not only are they linear assertive, they get ultra enthusiastic and get really loud about it. G is an LII and I'm willing to bet he knew what his dual is like and avoided them, which was why he married his semi-dual. For a logical, it's easier for them to get with their semi-dual over dual for some reason. I think ESE wants LII but they're so pushy that irl LII wouldn't want that. I can see ESE working much better with LSI and having a more natural relationship.

In my sample size of 5, 2 ESE guys and 3 EIE guys all of them were gay. Like really obviously so. And they dated other dudes lol. So by inductive reasoning I will assume all Fe lead men are gay until proven otherwise.
I think the problem is that the straight ESE men act like LSE and the straight EIE men act like LIE. So I don't notice them as easily. I'll stop making assumptions from now on...

Okay I've thought about it some more and I recalled an ESE-Si guy who was definitely straight. But he gave me LSE or even SLE vibes. But looking back he took an active role in managing the emotional atmosphere, making sure the weird new kid (me) wasn't left out, and also he did things like open the windows in the class when it was getting hot or the air was getting stuffy which is a behaviour I associate with Si types lol.

[Lolita]

In my sample size of 5, 2 ESE guys and 3 EIE guys all of them were gay. Like really obviously so. And they dated other dudes lol. So by inductive reasoning I will assume all Fe lead men are gay until proven otherwise.
I think the problem is that the straight ESE men act like LSE and the straight EIE men act like LIE. So I don't notice them as easily. I'll stop making assumptions from now on...

Okay I've thought about it some more and I recalled an ESE-Si guy who was definitely straight. But he gave me LSE or even SLE vibes. But looking back he took an active role in managing the emotional atmosphere, making sure the weird new kid (me) wasn't left out, and also he did things like open the windows in the class when it was getting hot or the air was getting stuffy which is a behaviour I associate with Si types lol.

LOL I know what you mean by Fe acting gay cuz it's ultra dramatic and cares about maintaining the emotional atmosphere esp. when in lead function. That's literally all the contestants on Rupaul's Drag Race, including Rupaul as EIE.