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Thread: Aphantasia and Ni leads

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    wayward sellsword Takyon's Avatar
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    Default Aphantasia and Ni leads

    In your mind’s eye, you are able to recall and even build images from what you’ve seen (imagination). However for those with aphantasia, they are unable to recall images, as well as unable to utilize imagination in result.

    With this in mind, for Ni leads who deal with imagination like breathing air, I concluded it would be impossible to have been born with this condition and be Ni lead. Although, it’s only images and not ideas that have been subtracted from the mind so maybe there is still slight leeway for this combination to exist (but I highly doubt it).

    Also, it’s not unheard of to get aphantasia after a surgery. So I wondered for those who have been Ni lead with working imagination up until then, how it must be like for them—probably more devastating than for the average person. Though could this lead to a change of type with enough stress and sufficient drive to adapt?

    edit; grammar!
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    necrosebud's Avatar
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    I was just thinking about someone who said he had this and that he may have been ILI.


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    I may not have aphantasia but I have severe memory loss

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    Shazaam's Avatar
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    the function of Ni is like stream of consciousness/pure-ego stuff.... not really image based, although I think you tap into this better the more you are using Fe/Se/Si and a person meditates some of that Ni stuff down.

    If Ni existed without Se in a vacuum it would be very much like that but the way Se works with it dualistically kind of stops it.

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    I've known an LIE with something like this. I asked him about his dreams in class one day and be said he didn't see anything. It was like he dreamed in logical abstractions or something. It was very unusual from my perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    I've known an LIE with something like this. I asked him about his dreams in class one day and be said he didn't see anything. It was like he dreamed in logical abstractions or something. It was very unusual from my perspective.

    My dreams are more like waking experiences, more like movies with people, locations, and a story, although the physics is sometimes altered a bit from the real world.

    Most of the images that I construct in my dreams are nearly as detailed as real-world images, but occasionally I will be looking at something and will see it with crystal clarity, and that's when I start thinking that I'm in a dream.

    Functionally, the brain reconstructs everything, including present senses and past memories, from very sparse data. When these objects in my dream take on more and more detail, it's like watching a rendered image being constructed on a computer screen. I can see the machinery as it happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    My dreams are more like waking experiences, more like movies with people, locations, and a story, although the physics is sometimes altered a bit from the real world.

    Most of the images that I construct in my dreams are nearly as detailed as real-world images, but occasionally I will be looking at something and will see it with crystal clarity, and that's when I start thinking that I'm in a dream.

    Functionally, the brain reconstructs everything, including present senses and past memories, from very sparse data. When these objects in my dream take on more and more detail, it's like watching a rendered image being constructed. I can see the machinery as it happens.
    Yeah.. As I've gotten more aware of my dreams over the years, I've realized they have a lot of similarity to Alice in Wonderland. There's a lot of inconsistency and incoherence in them, and one odd reference that pops into the dream can shift a context or plot entirely. I had one dream where the setting was a Walmart. A moment later it shifted to a football field, with the character I was talking to just continuing on as if nothing happened lol.

    Reading that couple of stories was oddly and unexpectedly scary for me at times once I saw through the cracks of the plot into the dreamlike qualities of the story. A kid might read the book and just get into the story and enjoy the adventures. Me on the other hand, I was noticing the incoherence of one moment to the next along with how keen the characters seemed to be without the coherence. I also noticed how Alice was affected by the dreams and how Alice affected the dreams unconsciously and they all shifted along. It's pretty spooky if you think about it too much lol.

    I sort of get the underlying benevolent intent of it though. Alice naively walks through the dream with an expectation of adventure and enjoyment, asking, "When will I be queen?" And that's what happens at the end of the dream before she wakes up.

    I'm thinking about Crowley's recommendation that everyone read Alice in Wonderland, especially if they're going through the abyss, whatever that is. Shrug lol.

    Lewis Carroll must have had some good dream memory or lucid dreaming skills to be able to write a book like that one. He even took into account how sensory experiences in the real world so to speak can impact the content of a dream especially on the borders of the dream state. I've noticed that myself before.

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    Here's my reasoning. Ni leads indeed are like that, however, consider that you don't need images in order to create a world. It can be like a text adventure, or similar.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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    Seed my wickedness Sanguine Miasma's Avatar
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    Quite interesting. My mind generates ridiculous amount real time fantasy which is treated with humongous blur filter and internally expressive bursts.... and people just can not figure out out why on earth I laugh so much alone.
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    Indeed, that is about right for me too. It's obviously because what you think is funny.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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    wdym?
    If they ever tryna neck, I'll put my foot up in your caca
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    Like I'm finna take your dadda
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    wayward sellsword Takyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunkSailor View Post
    wdym?
    lol
    Death is the engine of Earth

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    PunkSailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takyon View Post
    lol

    If they ever tryna neck, I'll put my foot up in your caca
    Call your mama and your papa
    Like I'm finna take your dadda
    Turn that bitch into a soccer ball and rocka, rocka, rocka (brrr)
    Get into it like a suit
    And fuck a stack up like a broker

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    AWellArmedCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takyon View Post
    With this in mind, for Ni leads who deal with imagination like breathing air, I concluded it would be impossible to have been born with this condition and be Ni lead.
    I actually have mild aphantasia and am all but certain I am Ni-lead. It's weird though because my imagination is very intensely felt but not really seen. Consciously I can only dimly picture things in my head, and my ability to turn them around in space, change the lighting, etc is extremely weak to nearly nonexistent. However, I can clearly picture a lot of things when I'm not really trying to. I experience my imagination through almost like a sixth sense rather than as vision. It's super hard to describe and I don't know if this is making any sense, but it's really just like perceiving without actually seeing. Some sort of blind intuitive sight where I know what something looks like and am able to experience it in its full depth without actually being able to generate the image tangibly for myself. I really struggle to describe what it's like. I can see stuff and get extremely sucked into my visions, but I also can't really see the stuff in them. Or at least not see them in a way that makes sense to explain. It's like some kind of hypervision. This is making less sense the more I'm talking about it, sorry

    I'll try to explain it with drawing. I love drawing, but really struggle to compile and pull from a "visual library" like a lot of artists talk about. It's not that I don't know what stuff looks like though because I can readily draw quite a lot of things from memory just fine. It's just that there's not exactly an image in my head of the things I am drawing, but rather just a gut feeling where I just somehow know what they look like. If I sit back in my chair, tune out, and let my consciousness fall to the back of my head I can enter into a state where I can see things in a more conventionally visual way, and I see them very vividly like in my dreams. As soon as I come back from that state though and look down at my paper the images have totally vanished and I draw based on that vague sense of just "knowing" how things look. Another way to put it is that I can't exactly hold the image in front of me while interfacing with the external world. I have to detach from things to see, and the more deeply I disassociate, the more clearly I see them. I space out all the time at my desk and slip in and out of this state readily. I really have no clue if this counts as any form of aphantasia or what
    “Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
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    impulsive pseudo pokemon one's Avatar
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    The insight or gut feel could be Ni which might not be shown visually but I’m a pretty visual person. Imagining things moving too is typical of me. Specially when it’s negative, thoughts manifest as images - this is why I say demon or some random words to explain sometimes because I see them like that and scare myself sometimes. When the lights are off your brain just starts coming up with various stuff, right? I can’t imagine having aphantasia.

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    Seed my wickedness Sanguine Miasma's Avatar
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    Ip's have an ability to draw meticulously well. Ni valuers have bit force sensing sort of style - contrast but it can reach very plain realism. Si valuing people like to draw in vague cartoonist way which can also in some cases approach vividly impressed photo realism when done enough.

    I don't think this is aphantasia anyways.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
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    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

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