MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Now I can't say for sure because I haven't met 1E types with good Socionics compatibility but I met 1E EIE and EII and the relationship can be pretty bad. Dated an 1E EIE, was originally attracted to her Fe but it became really annoying after a while. Not sure if it's because of Fe-lead or 1E or the combination of both lol. Now that I think about it, a few people in my family are/were EII with 1E and 2E. EII EVLF? mum can be a pain to deal with lol. EII FELV? aunt is really nice to me, EII LEVF? grandpa was also really nice to me. Could be coincidence though. But it seems that 2E on my 3E eases the supervision that EII exert over me lol.
At any rate 1E seem quite selfish to me. However they won't ignore the fundamental principles of the underlying socionics function. So 1E Fi shouldn't be so selfish that they violate moral/decency principles, 1E Fe shouldn't be so selfish that they ruin the emotional atmosphere or restrict emotional expression. Just a guess though.
On the other hand I suppose 2E boosts the good side of the function and softens the bad side. So 2E Fi won't sour the atmosphere by trying to lecture people on what's right or wrong, 2E Fe won't throw decency out the window when trying to raise the mood or express themselves, etc. My experience with 1E Fe at least is that they can say and do morally disagreeable things just for emotional expression. And also the few I met tried to emotionally manipulate me a lot. Things like making me jealous or mad all the time. Seriously it's like they were trying their hardest to piss me off every single day. With 1E Fi the problem I'd say is being morally meddlesome and subjecting EVERYTHING I do to moral judgement. But I grew up with EII mum so it doesn't bother me as much lol.
Now that I recall, there was an SEI girl I met who was probably 2E in retrospect. We got along well but there was no spark or anything. All I can say is that she was pleasant to be around lol. She would donate half of her lunch to me every day which makes me think she was 4F and somehow noticed I'm 1F or maybe I'm imagining things lol. Perhaps the absence of conflict is the basis for good relations after all.
I don't think the third function is engaged that much during stress, but it is a great source of stress. But it kinda makes sense that a third-function problem requires a third-function solution. So a 3E would ideally engage in E whenever some E problem occurs (constructive) instead of using say 1F to punch a wall, 1L to overthink things and get nowhere, etc. (not constructive). I would say that when things are running smoothly then people use their 2nd and 3rd freely, then when a crisis occurs (usually due to 3rd or 4th incompetence), 1st function is engaged full throttle to deal with it (result-oriented) and finally when the crisis is settled they go back to the 2nd and 3rd function.
Is your experience with goal-setting that you are energised by obstacles? That's how the "you know what?!" came across to me. ha. I appreciate this attitude in others.
2V for me is a loss of vitality when I can't get others onboard. At work I would be the first to suggest a meeting, to understand better everyone's preferences and needs. The idea that someone is doing their work begrudgingly or just because I said so, upsets me greatly. I tend to include myself in endeavours "Let's do this , let's do that" and if I note that a person is uncomfortable or resistant, I won't press further. My goals are centered around collaboration.
In the cognitive tests I score high in both Fi and Fe, but the Fi activist stereotype is unlike my willfullness. I'm not out there broadcasting my values...it is something more akin to influencing people as I meet them one-to-one. "passionate" as synonymous with 1E I do like.
Being aware of your expression's effect on possible outcomes; the room mood, and choosing to influence that... skillful Fe :-)
-Where do the other tests, particularly bestsocionics, place your physics?
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-Do certain habits relating to the "material" centre you, or do you view these as burdensome; keeping you from fields you'd rather spend your time on?
If meaning routines like shaving, toothbrushing, going to the hairdresser... then it's very burdensome. I might shave or go to the hairdresser from half a year to half a year (this is partly because I don't like to spend money or time there when I don't need to have short hair). In fact I've been trying haircuts with the specific goal of having one that looks decent when it grows more so I can go far less.
If meaning taking care of the house, usually something or someone needs to force me to do it.
If meaning physical labor, I can enjoy some forms of hard physical work specially when it's a little bit varied. Monotonous or detailed physical work is not for me. Even if that detailed work were to be far less hard I would vastly prefer the hard, general and varied work.
-When people are stressed, they overuse the 1st function and shut down the 4th. So in your case you could figure out if you indulge your senses or start thinking a lot when stressed.
It's quite hard for me to realize my own emotional states, although sometimes something is bugging me (which might be one of the reasons for insomnia) and my head goes on and around thinking about the same problem, and then forget or try to not remember it or think about it.
I say this because I cannot recognize or remember moments of stress, and I cannot correlate what actions could be due to stress right now. I have a low EQ in these things.
The times I have been hugely stressed I can recognize. These times I have reacted poorly to it, I tend to think worse, act more dumb and be harsher under stress. Do not take what I say for reacting violently, it's almost impossible to make me react with violence, I rather back up from anything (If I back up from something while knowing I am right because of circunstances, or because of tying to avoid a worse situation, the common thing for me is to get very angry inside).
The few times I've done sports have been under a very calm mood, unstressed. When stressed the last thing I can think of is excersize.
I might overeat if I get too bored, I have a liking for some aesthethic configurations, and I have a fairly "decent" dressing style.
Last edited by RBRS; 03-13-2021 at 11:36 PM.
Sometimes I do feel like I need something to overcome, yes. Extremely self motivated. It's more like I need something to aim for--often obstacles are energizing, sometimes not. It gets tricky being Se inferior. I certainly don't have unlimited energy for my goals or always the greatest efficiency (poor Te).
This was helpful. You sound like you'd be great to work for. Meetings and group endeavors are decidedly not my favorite, ha. There's a director at my conservatory who sounds like you. Periodic yet unobtrusive emails to check in and say "here are new opportunities, here's a poll/survey, here's a meeting to check in" and she very much leads by example and is involved in all those things herself.2V for me is a loss of vitality when I can't get others onboard. At work I would be the first to suggest a meeting, to understand better everyone's preferences and needs. The idea that someone is doing their work begrudgingly or just because I said so, upsets me greatly. I tend to include myself in endeavours "Let's do this , let's do that" and if I note that a person is uncomfortable or resistant, I won't press further. My goals are centered around collaboration.
Being aware of your expression's effect on possible outcomes; the room mood, and choosing to influence that... skillful Fe :-)
Good point. My thoughts can really spin and become stuck/unproductive when stressed (don't they call that the Ni-Ti loop in MBTI?), and suddenly I'll feel like I have to solve a not-very-important problem. I do this for a while but then get exhausted.
I think I actually return to goal setting/list making as a way to feel some relief for my stress. Which seems very 1V returning to its base. Fortunately with adulthood I've learned to take better physical care of myself, which I used to ignore. Now I will get outside, eat better, or just sleep. Makes a world of difference. So maybe incorporating the 4th holds something of a key.
(Then there's the separate category of "pandemic-induced crisis").....
@Frddy what do you appreciate someone to do for you when you're stressed, like what would strike you as being not only thoughtful but genuinely helpful?
That's a tough question. I imagine the best thing might be to leave it be and leaving me to deal with it, taking attention towards something different or simply trying to not be an obstacle to things.
As I've said I tend to react poorly, and being very insistent on it(for example, trying to "help" by being invasive, or asking me what happens too many times after I have already explained) can result in me throwing out words that can be harsh, and start a discussion which only makes it all slower to process. It might make things easier to explain that this "dealing with it" is usually done inside, without external expression or acts out of place.
Last edited by RBRS; 03-14-2021 at 12:31 AM.
She got my number first and messaged me a few times to 'study' together. I turned her down cos I wasn't romantically interested or anything and we just stayed friends for a while. Then she sorta disappeared from classes one day. Sad story I guess but I figured it wouldn't work out if we didn't have anything in common. Sure enough in my longest friendships and relationships we had more common ground and not so much socionic compatibility lol. But I dunno, people are so complicated and I don't wanna think about it too much.
Oh the fabled Ni-Ti loop, heard that so many times before hahah. Basically it's just an excuse IEIs use for being lazy I mean MBTI INFJ has supposedly Ni + Ti but a good portion of MBTI INFJ type as Socionics EII so no strong Ni or Ti in there. If cognitive functions could feed input into each other infinitely like that then every type would have some kind of loop, right? Never heard of Ne-Fe loop, Si-Ti loop or whatever. Generally stressing over unproductivity is a Te-POLR quirk. Well this Te-oriented society cares about productivity and all that but I feel like the only types that really fret it are Te-POLR. For xEI it gets really bad probably because the Ti takes precedence over Te and therefore Ti is overused when trying to solve a problem (Te gets 'blocked' by Ti, reducing productivity). And then for IEI there's the added problem of Ni being such an inert function. So Te and Se are the most productive functions and Ti and Ni the least productive ones. Maybe that could be an explanation for the Ni-Ti loop.
Maybe it is 1V, I don't know many 1V to say for sure though. Oh yeah doing the bare minimum with the 4th function is great. The problem is that it's supposed to be externally supplied, kind of like Socionics suggestive function. Since it's also result oriented there's something satisfying about getting it out of the way lol. Finishing some huge task feels great to me. Setting my mind to do it and working on it, not so much lol. Ironically I find physical labour pleasurable and mental labour not so much, contrary to typical ILEs. The 1F has a great influence over some quirks in my personality that cannot be explained with Socionics.
So maybe not the "loop," then. Being lazy generally isn't an issue for me, so chalk it up to more stress lately and the collective trauma of the pandemic.
I think I'm 3V because as long as I can remember I have rebelled against control by creating new rules to protect my views [not necessarily for my own benefit] and I have usually deployed methods that used existing loopholes.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I have so much trouble with physical effort. I think I need someone to babysit me after my cleanliness. I kind of do OK with large projects although they get bit lopsided towards the end. It is better if tackle problems down with some new ideas. In a way getting thrown into the abyss is kind of great although the constant effort is hard. Just imagine someone who is fallen from the cliff but manages to grab something along the way and comes crawling back later with a great story.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Just adding my thoughts before they disappear again.
I know the test didn't say so, but how you go about physics (acceptably, decently) does not rule out 4F - in my mind. The specific haircut goal made me smile because it is something I relate to; wanting to economise or be minimal in certain areas, so I don't have to keep tabs on their upkeep...how this manifests in me is that I don't devote time to beauty regime - I use three non irritating products, sunscreen included, and the aim is to look tidy enough that people leave me be.
Returning to 1F, there is heightened awareness of the need to periodically stretch legs, to simply move. Staying curled over a laptop in a dark room is out of the question and they will feel the urge to go for a run for their own good, may even say things like "I need to sweat". Knowingness that the exertion will facilitate a good mood F>E. 1F types will not mind receiving compliments on their physique, which is a source of pride and pleasure. I'll guess that 4F types may find such evaluations uncomfortable (or wish to be complimented on other aspects of themselves).
Anyway, it got me wondering whether you are closer to VLEF than FVLE.
-Returning to 1F, there is heightened awareness of the need to periodically stretch legs, to simply move. Staying curled over a laptop in a dark room is out of the question and they will feel the urge to go for a run for their own good, may even say things like "I need to sweat". Knowingness that the exertion will facilitate a good mood F>E.
Two years ago I have had my bed on the floor without a bed base, and had no problem with it (My girlfriend even commented that my room looked like a prison cell or something), I can live pretty good like that. About going out or anything, I only get out of my house if I need to (Work, doing burocratic paperwork, etc) and to pick up my partner, so no, I do not identify much with what you wrote.
-1F types will not mind receiving compliments on their physique, which is a source of pride and pleasure. I'll guess that 4F types may find such evaluations uncomfortable (or wish to be complimented on other aspects of themselves).
I relate a lot to that last phrase, In fact I can tolerate such comments if they come from very close people, if not I don't like it at all.
Anyways, either I don't have the correct sources, or 1V is unlikely.
I can play video games 18 hours non stop or sit through grueling hour long raids. I can read books for days only stopping to sleep or binge watch something for days. Sometimes I work from dusk to dawn and forgo sleep and food. I slept on the floor for 3 years as an experiment. Did water fast for 7 days as an experiment. Can put creature-comforts aside to get something done no problem. IF I have some kind of medical issue I fix it asap. When I had to get operated didn't really hesitate to get a proper diagnostic at a reputable private clinic, to find a competent surgeon and willingly walked into the operating room. Stuff like that. I like getting shit done, feels good.
Lol I can eat the same food every day for months as long as it logically meets nutritional requirements.
Compliments are embarrassing in general tbh. I never know how to react. Especially if they come from a stranger... literal "WTF" moment for me. Can't tell if genuine or just messing with me.1F types will not mind receiving compliments on their physique, which is a source of pride and pleasure. I'll guess that 4F types may find such evaluations uncomfortable (or wish to be complimented on other aspects of themselves).
1F (FLEV)
Last edited by SGF; 03-15-2021 at 12:30 PM.
Machine translations of each placement, and I pulled out a short summary quote from each:
FIRST
"The first is a hammer, equally suitable for destruction and creation. However, it is a hammer with all the conveniences and inconveniences arising from this circumstance, a blacksmith's hammer, not a jeweler's hammer. Products created by them, the subtlety of the finishes do not differ, they are rough, simple and focused more on reliability than on beauty."
SECOND
"If the first function is best compared to a hammer, then the Second with the river. But besides strength, it has qualities unknown to the First: breadth, wealth, naturalness and flexibility. The source of all these virtues lies in the fact that the Second force is matched with process, i.e. it is a force charged with constant dialogue, constant interaction. Returning to the comparison between the First and the Second, we can say that if the First is our gift to ourselves, the Second is our gift to others. Therefore, the second function is the best side of the person."
THIRD
"If we compress what Jung said and add a little from ourselves, we can say that the essence of the Third Function is this: it is a function that we consider to be vulnerable, flawed, underdeveloped, in need of constant strengthening, self-development and protection."
FOURTH
"In short, the fourth function is a slave without guile, a chameleon and a dependent with a large, but often dormant potential."
@squark coming through with the Russian info The problem is when you feel you have weaknesses in multiple areas but aren't sure how to differentiate socionics weaknesses from 3rd attitude insecurity.
More reading required.... *gulps tea*
Edit: reminds self "it's not necessarily about quality/aptitude of the function that determines its place on the mental hierarchy" (taken from that section on the 4th position)
2L-3 are into arguing as long as it stays logical. But as soon as ppl emote, or they’re EIE (who are commonly 1E, that clashes with my 3E) then it’s just pointless. With 4F, I do things like pick out an outfit (for example) and quickly move on. I don’t savor the F stuff, but I view it in a positive way for both me and others.
AP is about your attitude towards your abilities, not your actual cognitive abilities so it’s not related to socionics. There is a claim that there seems to be more of a correlation with enneagrams but so far, Rob is wrong and need to read Naranjo and Ichazo. My AP type is noted to being the “most argumentative type,”however he said VLEF is linked with enneagram 1, but 1 isn’t argumentative. I don’t even have 1 fix.
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I got typed as VELF AKHMATOVA, so that was cool.
Socionics is a dangerous thing for a woman like me to have, but I have it.
Sources I like, idk if they've already been posted here and I'm not gonna check 5 pages.
https://bestsocionics.com/psychosophy/functions/
https://bestsocionics.com/psychosophy/
https://osocionike.ru/psychosophy/
Socionics is a dangerous thing for a woman like me to have, but I have it.
Yeah, those enneagram correlations were throwing me for a loop. In his video on VELFs he said type One is extremely rare, but I think I'm both. However I'm also looking at LEFV for myself...a sudden weird shift.
My ILE bestie is VLEF like yourself and she's enneagram 9. She can be very stubborn and will always privately have an opinion, but her Social Nine-ness keeps this from manifesting in a combative way. So I think you have to use discernment when you come across a person's opinion on how a type will manifest themselves.
Btw is that actually your bike in your signature?
These russian sources are better than the attitudinal psyche site. Looking at functions in isolation I can see both VFLE and FVLE working but in type descriptions I think VFLE edges out. I’ll give the 200q thing a try later. The attitudinal psyche page test gave me VFLE both times I did, old and updated test.
LOL sure 1 can be argumentative but they are not argumentative by core. My dad is LSI 1 and he’s perfectionist but literally won’t argue unless his Ti is attacked. He’s rigid and angry, but not argumentative. VLEF argue due to their L being agitated because they seek out information and correct it (I can see that as 1-ish) but they’ll argue endlessly over logical contention and they do stick by their arguments, especially when others emote, they’ll dig their heels in and will bulldoze with more logic. I think VLEF is actually more like 5.
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The enneagram correlations are mostly wrong. It’s not based off enneagram theory to draw likeness, but more like it’s based off of whatever impressions the enneagrams are known for and I’ve interacted with Rob and some members of his team. They’re EIEs (Rob is likely EIE-N) and they operate based upon their impressions and the image politics of enneagrams but not actually examine enneagram to any depth. It’s just their spin on what they believe to be correlated with what.
As for VLEF being “the most argumentative” type, that’s from Rob. Being argumentative doesn’t mean being aggressive, although that doesn’t stop others from viewing an argumentative person as aggressive. I don’t argue in an off-putting way. I argue in a matter of fact way and people who are higher on the E priority often would mistaken my points of contention as something E related when it’s actually L related. I’m a social 8 and I’m directly inclined to stand up and fight. That’s the “justice” of 8. However, even if your friend is 9 and VLEF, she would still be “argumentative” but just in an L way. Whether people see her as being argumentative, that’s another thing and probably more related to her being a 9 vs me being an 8. If she’s VLEF, then we both have the same attitudes and motivations for arguing and would be “argumentative.”
Yes, it’s one of my bikes and currently my only fixie as I’ve sold the one I built. The maker is an Fi bike mechanic. She makes unique color combos and don’t repeat old designs. She mainly does custom color orders. It’s definitely too loud looking but it rides like a dream.
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This seems to hit home
https://6m7pgjna6sc2g3s4hthzeoyoay--...skal-levf.html
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
200 questions test gave inconclusive results, did it twice with minor changes between some answers but both indicate 4E and basically three possible types. First run had strongest coefficients for FVLE, LVFE, VFLE. Second run had VFLE, FVLE, LVFE. Averaging the coefficients from both runs results in FVLE edging out very slightly (0,0025 or 0,11%) over VFLE with LVFE clearly losing. Both of the shorter psychosophy tests suggested VFLE, the other one tied points with FVLE.
I just think of it as simplified behavioral mechanics you execute daily and naturally. It is a lot like balance. Regarding type relations here it seems bit far fetched at times. You kind of just share attitudes which can be important at first encounter. So I would not read too much into it but take it from practical perspective.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
i've gone through many of the russian sites and ELVF is still the best fit. everything on this page regarding 4F is true of me for the most part. the only issues are that if i could get the energy, i wouldn't live in trash and i feel psychologically broken in this area. and although it is true that appearance to me is more about emotional self-expression/identity expression, i am pained by body image matters off and on. i think the first emotion third will fits me better than the first emotion third physics. although obviously i'm not some great intellectual like hans christian andersen lol i think the descriptions for the andersen fit well enough and better than any of the other types.
it seems dumas came up with this system? and not to um shit on my own kind, but it does indeed seem this system is a terrible Ti HA production. it is flawed to its bare bones.
i propose just creatively giving oneself 5 slots to fill lol. i can be EELVF, in which only the first two slots are actual strengths and the L is a bit more like 3L in that it's still weak logic but it's also a bit like 2L in that it's secure. giving it an extra slot arbitrarily defined however one likes gives the system more... breathing room.
In a way it reminds me of the instincts (sexual, social, self preservation), although it's not so much about where your energy goes as it is about your attitude toward each area of life.
This site describes it as a supplement to socionics for people who feel like their sociotype doesn't completely describe them, or they have elements in their nature that contradict their sociotype, or duality doesn't seem to be as helpful as it's made out to be: https://osocionike.ru/psychosophy/61...cheloveka.html
Personally I'm still sorting out my type, but it adds another layer that helps me see why I'm really drawn to certain people even if they're not the best socionic match for me. And vice versa, why members of my own quadra have been a bad fit in the long run.
I do wonder if she's actually VLEF, but can't think what else would fit better. Wouldn't describe her as argumentative because she's good at gauging when someone will be able to receive what she says or not, so often she just stops arguing if she knows they aren't really interested in listening. However yeah, she doesn't yield logical points easily at all.
I can see her fighting her natural impulse to respond to someone's point and the 9 impulse to keep the peace.
The saturated colors areYes, it’s one of my bikes and currently my only fixie as I’ve sold the one I built. The maker is an Fi bike mechanic. She makes unique color combos and don’t repeat old designs. She mainly does custom color orders. It’s definitely too loud looking but it rides like a dream.
Last edited by Aria; 03-20-2021 at 07:29 PM.
The third spot is tricky depending what's going on in life or how I'm doing psychologically overall. When I'm not doing well I get hangups in both Physics and Logic, so would almost tie those for 3rd.
I like it, since currently there's no option for "what if I have a bad attitude towards multiple things?" loli propose just creatively giving oneself 5 slots to fill lol. i can be EELVF, in which only the first two slots are actual strengths and the L is a bit more like 3L in that it's still weak logic but it's also a bit like 2L in that it's secure. giving it an extra slot arbitrarily defined however one likes gives the system more... breathing room.
I get VLEF, ya know, the arguing one.
It's the best fit I guess, that's what I thought when reading descriptions but I don't think it's very good.
I really hate arguing with people because what's the point? It's all written somewhere already anyway, if one just bothers to google it: the pros, the cons, the part that can go both sides, the part that says the argument is a waste of perfectly good time and energy, the points we are missing with the argument itself...
I do argue with myself on a daily basis tho.
Maybe try switching the places of V and L? I originally got VLEF also, but I'm not so pushy or debate-y as the 1V and 2L describe. I'd rather lecture than debate, and while I like discussion, discussion isn't debate. I don't need the back-and-forth of a debate and just look things up on my own. Sounds like you might be similar.
Yooo this site is awesome, MOAR descriptions!!
https://6m7pgjna6sc2g3s4hthzeoyoay--...ikur-flev.html
Right on the money. The only other type I was considering is Berthier (LFEV) and it doesn't fit at all.
Wait I just noticed these descriptions are the same ones from bestsocionics.com except a bit longer and with different wording. They also have some interesting socionics articles for a fresh perspective on intertype relations and such. Oh wow they also have intertype relationships descriptions for different types and even different gender pairings! A bit hard to navigate the pages with those weird URLs though lol
https://6m7pgjna6sc2g3s4hthzeoyoay--...-i-balzak.html
https://6m7pgjna6sc2g3s4hthzeoyoay--...stoevskiy.html
https://6m7pgjna6sc2g3s4hthzeoyoay--...-i-esenin.html