Attitudinal Psyche type system

[UDP]

@UDP I'm very fascinated by it, although sometimes frustrated by the almost contradicting definitions I'm finding. That's kind of the typology journey, though.

It's been accounting for why I relate so differently to people who are all of the same sociotype. Or why even opposing socionics quadra relationships have felt complementary to me in many ways....ways that subtype, enneagram, etc., have not been able to account for.

That's good.

when people use only one typology lens, it's not much better than watching only one partisan news network. AP + Enenagram + Socionics = actually being somewhat more robust in modeling capacities, than one lens only

[The Banana King]

Oh and another thing: Socionics type greatly influences what someone with a given Psyche Yoga type will look like. So I have a VFEL/VLEF LSE-D grandma who used to be an absolute tyrant (by account of my mum and her sister which had 2V/3V, both EII surprisingly). Ironically she was quite nice to me and my uncle who I suspect is a 4V. She mellowed out with the years but the high V, coupled with low E and Socionics type made her 1V look like a monster. Types like VELF and VEFL are comparatively mellow because the high E makes them aware and respectful of other people's Emotion. Coupled with socionics type, I imagine an IEI/EIE VELF is quite unobtrusive with their Volition. In those cases, I think 1V has a DIY approach to things rather than a domineering approach. But I haven't met enough 1V irl to say for sure.

Here's a few descriptions of VELF: They're described as more agreeable than VLEF or VFEL descriptions
will_emotion_logic_physic (archive.org)
Описание типа ВЭЛФ (Ахматова) в психософии (bestsocionics.com)

[Aria]

Oh and another thing: Socionics type greatly influences what someone with a given Psyche Yoga type will look like. So I have a VFEL/VLEF LSE-D grandma who used to be an absolute tyrant (by account of my mum and her sister which had 2V/3V, both EII surprisingly). Ironically she was quite nice to me and my uncle who I suspect is a 4V. She mellowed out with the years but the high V, coupled with low E and Socionics type made her 1V look like a monster.

I can imagine an LSE-D VFEL or VLEF would be quite the force to be reckoned with. I know an EII who I think is 2V! I believe her LIE husband is 3V or 4V and she has faithfully supported his dreams for years. She was his biggest help getting through grad school, which he almost didn't make it through due to issues with motivation. She even put her own education on hold so he could pursue his dream, but has expressed frustration didn't get more education herself.

I remember thinking (but not saying), "I would never put my life dream on hold for anyone." Haha. A 1V thing to think, probably.

At the same time, she has a husband and a kid and I don't, so you know....priorities.

Types like VELF and VEFL are comparatively mellow because the high E makes them aware and respectful of other people's Emotion. Coupled with socionics type, I imagine an IEI/EIE VELF is quite unobtrusive with their Volition. In those cases, I think 1V has a DIY approach to things rather than a domineering approach. But I haven't met enough 1V irl to say for sure.

This was really good. Yes, I think this might be me. I just pursue my own things but I don't try to get others to do them with me (or for me). If I meet resistance from someone, I find myself quietly distancing from that person.

However, I don't always know if this distancing is prompted by 1V or 1E...most recently I've distanced from people that I just feel bad around.

[The Banana King]

I can imagine an LSE-D VFEL or VLEF would be quite the force to be reckoned with. I know an EII who I think is 2V! I believe her LIE husband is 3V or 4V and she has faithfully supported his dreams for years. She was his biggest help getting through grad school, which he almost didn't make it through due to issues with motivation. She even put her own education on hold so he could pursue his dream, but has expressed frustration didn't get more education herself.

I remember thinking (but not saying), "I would never put my life dream on hold for anyone." Haha. A 1V thing to think, probably.

At the same time, she has a husband and a kid and I don't, so you know....priorities.



This was really good. Yes, I think this might be me. I just pursue my own things but I don't try to get others to do them with me (or for me). If I meet resistance from someone, I find myself quietly distancing from that person.

However, I don't always know if this distancing is prompted by 1V or 1E...most recently I've distanced from people that I just feel bad around.

I can't imagine what a 4V LIE is like hahaha. LIE strike me as the 1V type usually. Then I'm a 1F ILE so I guess anything is possible. I remember reading in a russian site about people who's PY type is their Socionics dual, in other words they are their own duals. So the ILE equivalent is LVEF (Because Einstein, who is an ILE in Socionics, is used as the LVEF poster child). A self-dualized ILE would have FEVL (Dumas) PY type. On the other hand, people who have the same POLR as their third function are said to have double POLR. So 3E for any xxTp type for instance.

"I would never put my life dream on hold for anyone." Sounds either 1V or 3V haha. 3V because it devalues other people's will. So I could see a 3V in the "confident" state saying something like this to look like a 1V lol. 2V would find a way to compromise and fulfill both their goals and aspirations. 4V often don't even have any dreams to begin with. They take on the wishes of others instead.

Hmmm, I dunno about patterns in terms of distancing. I could describe what 1E and 2E is like. 1E is extremely annoying to me lol. 1E is something like, overwhelming emotions all the time. Feels like 1E users have bipolar disorder or something. The tiniest little things they just overreact. Just like 1L overwhelms others with their closed-mindedness and 1F overwhelms with their body (often use brute force or even violence to solve problems), 1E overwhelms with emotions. 1E also feels very emotionally selfish. When they laugh they expect you to laugh along, when they cry they expect you to cry along. They don't care at all what you might be going through. Total opposite with 2E which attempts to liberate others in terms of emotional expression (and 3E appreciates this). 1E matches well with 4E, which is described as a 'mirror', they don't really have many feelings going on, but they enjoy watching and consuming drama and emotional expression and they often mimic emotions of their interlocutor. Funny enough the strong emotionality of 1E might be confused with Socionics Fe, but actually it's something different. Psyche Yoga E is more about HOW you use emotions rather than WHAT you are using. So 1E is selfish use of emotions, 2E is normative and helpful use. I'd say Fe/Fi leads often have 1E, and Fe/Fi creatives often have 2E but of course it's not a rule. At any rate, I get along better with Fi users with 2E than Fe users with 1E. Even though I value Fe myself. It's pretty amazing how Psyche Yoga predicts these things, it could seriously be used as a subtyping system for Socionics.

[The Reality Denialist]

. 1E is extremely annoying to me lol. 1E is something like, overwhelming emotions all the time. Feels like 1E users have bipolar disorder or something. The tiniest little things they just overreact. Just like 1L overwhelms others with their closed-mindedness and 1F overwhelms with their body (often use brute force or even violence to solve problems), 1E overwhelms with emotions. 1E also feels very emotionally selfish. When they laugh they expect you to laugh along, when they cry they expect you to cry along. They don't care at all what you might be going through. Total opposite with 2E which attempts to liberate others in terms of emotional expression (and 3E appreciates this). 1E matches well with 4E, which is described as a 'mirror', they don't really have many feelings going on, but they enjoy watching and consuming drama and emotional expression and they often mimic emotions of their interlocutor. Funny enough the strong emotionality of 1E might be confused with Socionics Fe, but actually it's something different. Psyche Yoga E is more about HOW you use emotions rather than WHAT you are using. So 1E is selfish use of emotions, 2E is normative and helpful use. I'd say Fe/Fi leads often have 1E, and Fe/Fi creatives often have 2E but of course it's not a rule. At any rate, I get along better with Fi users with 2E than Fe users with 1E. Even though I value Fe myself. It's pretty amazing how Psyche Yoga predicts these things, it could seriously be used as a subtyping system for Socionics.

Yeah. I'd imagine 3E is the sort of person who potentially delivers it back while 2E does not take an offense from the knee jerk reaction of 3E and later chills things down.

[Aria]

Darn it, this thread is distracting me when I should be working.

*Ti activation level 9000*

[Aria]

I can't imagine what a 4V LIE is like hahaha. LIE strike me as the 1V type usually. Then I'm a 1F ILE so I guess anything is possible. I remember reading in a russian site about people who's PY type is their Socionics dual, in other words they are their own duals. So the ILE equivalent is LVEF (Because Einstein, who is an ILE in Socionics, is used as the LVEF poster child). A self-dualized ILE would have FEVL (Dumas) PY type. On the other hand, people who have the same POLR as their third function are said to have double POLR. So 3E for any xxTp type for instance.

1F does seem unusual for ILE, but also cool because it's like a counter-balance to being all intuitive. The people I know who I suspect are 1F are mostly Si-doms, and maybe an ILI. And I could be wrong about the LIE! Talking about it more with my friend, maybe he's actually 2V and the EII is 3V. It's doubtful he's 4V.

"I would never put my life dream on hold for anyone." Sounds either 1V or 3V haha. 3V because it devalues other people's will. So I could see a 3V in the "confident" state saying something like this to look like a 1V lol. 2V would find a way to compromise and fulfill both their goals and aspirations. 4V often don't even have any dreams to begin with. They take on the wishes of others instead.

I don't know if I would say this to someone's face as I'm usually pretty diplomatic Usually pretty clear on the next step in life, so it's like I'm looking for people who are cool with that and will let me do my thing while they do theirs. Definitely do not devalue other's wills as I know how bad it feels when people try to undermine your confidence in your dreams and who you are.

Hmmm, I dunno about patterns in terms of distancing. I could describe what 1E and 2E is like. 1E is extremely annoying to me lol. 1E is something like, overwhelming emotions all the time. Feels like 1E users have bipolar disorder or something. The tiniest little things they just overreact. Just like 1L overwhelms others with their closed-mindedness and 1F overwhelms with their body (often use brute force or even violence to solve problems), 1E overwhelms with emotions. 1E also feels very emotionally selfish. When they laugh they expect you to laugh along, when they cry they expect you to cry along. They don't care at all what you might be going through. Total opposite with 2E which attempts to liberate others in terms of emotional expression (and 3E appreciates this). 1E matches well with 4E, which is described as a 'mirror', they don't really have many feelings going on, but they enjoy watching and consuming drama and emotional expression and they often mimic emotions of their interlocutor. Funny enough the strong emotionality of 1E might be confused with Socionics Fe, but actually it's something different. Psyche Yoga E is more about HOW you use emotions rather than WHAT you are using. So 1E is selfish use of emotions, 2E is normative and helpful use. I'd say Fe/Fi leads often have 1E, and Fe/Fi creatives often have 2E but of course it's not a rule. At any rate, I get along better with Fi users with 2E than Fe users with 1E. Even though I value Fe myself.

I'm starting to lean towards 2E for myself, and part of the journey has been to also honor my own feelings. Sometimes 3E people can be takers when they're immature, like they just expect you to always initiate or make them feel good, and it can be draining. So recognizing I also need to give to myself and am not just there to serve people emotionally or do all of the emotional work in the relationship has been helpful. I have seen most of my longtime 3E friends grow in this area as they mature with age.

It's pretty amazing how Psyche Yoga predicts these things, it could seriously be used as a subtyping system for Socionics.

Agreed!!! *looks around for someone to get right on that*

[The Banana King]

1F does seem unusual for ILE, but also cool because it's like a counter-balance to being all intuitive. The people I know who I suspect are 1F are mostly Si-doms, and maybe an ILI. And I could be wrong about the LIE! Talking about it more with my friend, maybe he's actually 2V and the EII is 3V. It's doubtful he's 4V.



I don't know if I would say this to someone's face as I'm usually pretty diplomatic Usually pretty clear on the next step in life, so it's like I'm looking for people who are cool with that and will let me do my thing while they do theirs. Definitely do not devalue other's wills as I know how bad it feels when people try to undermine your confidence in your dreams and who you are.



I'm starting to lean towards 2E for myself, and part of the journey has been to also honor my own feelings. Sometimes 3E people can be takers when they're immature, like they just expect you to always initiate or make them feel good, and it can be draining. So recognizing I also need to give to myself and am not just there to serve people emotionally or do all of the emotional work in the relationship has been helpful. I have seen most of my longtime 3E friends grow in this area as they mature with age.



Agreed!!! *looks around for someone to get right on that*

Well, 3E is really a mixed bag. Like any third function lol. The problem with many 3E people is taking offense over remarks even when the other person didn't mean to be rude. 1E are the worst culprits here since they kinda just say whatever they feel without thinking. But I suppose everything depends on the person and their maturity like you said. Mature 1E who can keep themselves from saying dumb crap and mature 3E who can keep themselves from getting mad at dumb crap.
In my experience, 3E is something like... wanting to express myself emotionally but not being able to, maybe because I want to keep my image as a guy. Guess it's what they call fragile masculinity lol. I can express myself just fine with my friends but if there's someone I just met and trying to impress, there's no way I can express myself like usual. The other spot where 3E pops out is criticism about personal stuff, say, the things I like, or criticism about my personality. It's just about the only spot that can shake me into strong negative emotions. Say, one time, a person I cared about had a tantrum accusing me of being some kind of swindler because I like playing poker for money. Shook me up really bad, I just kinda sat there silently keeping my composure but inside I was full of this weird feeling of rage and disappointment. Of course it was a 1E who said it without really thinking lol. And I was seriously trying my hardest to hold back tears cause fuck, I'm not a bad guy, I just enjoy the game and making money while I'm at it! But I just held it all in instead of defending my point. Generally tantrums are hell on earth for 3E. 2E is not prone to throwing tantrums ime. For 1E on the other hand, it's an everyday thing lol.
So 3E to me is more like a weakness to negative emotions. I'd say I'm pretty placid or even optimistic most of the time. Just that I can get mad if someone presses my buttons too much.
Just trying to clear up a bit about 3E, I wouldn't say it's about being emotionally immature but... they need some understanding. Like all third functions.