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Thread: How do I determine if I'm LII or ILI

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    Default How do I determine if I'm LII or ILI

    Good morning, socionisticianaphiles.

    I am trying to go back to basics to figure out my type and it's highly probably one of the two classic Chad types that we know everyone loves: LII and ILI. Another option is ILE, but this would overlook my strong introversion.

    I'm also trying to pretend that I am a socionics noob so as to lose baggage I have about my typing. Do y'all have any type descriptions that you favor which could help me decide? What characteristics are type "deal-breakers" between LII and ILI?

    Thanks.
    The end is nigh

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    Aren’t there like a hundred posts on the differences already?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Aren’t there like a hundred posts on the differences already?
    I read through them all, they didn't help.
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I read through them all, they didn't help.
    You are ILI.
    "The society that separates it's scholars from it's warriors will have it's thinking done by cowards and it's fighting by fools." ―Thucydides

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    Your Fe is just way too noticeable and good to be ILI, sorry man. I think in a way you are like envious of the 'Gamma Bite' but don't be. Accept your Fe softness and wear it with pride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I am trying to go back to basics to figure out my type <...> I'm also trying to pretend that I am a socionics noob
    If your typology understanding is not enough even to be sure in your type - you are noob.

    > Do y'all have any type descriptions that you favor which could help me decide?

    To be sure in your own type is useful to identify types of people with who you communicate much IRL and then check how your impressions from them fit to IR theory.
    You more need to understand types traits (dichotomies, 8 functions, functions values and strenght, IR theory), but not read types descriptions. In descriptions trust more to what is met more often among authors.
    Best book in English is Filatova's. All sources should have similar content about typology basics. Do not use Reinin traits.

    If you want to get opinions about your type then make a videointerview.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Your Fe is just way too noticeable and good to be ILI, sorry man. I think in a way you are like envious of the 'Gamma Bite' but don't be. Accept your Fe softness and wear it with pride.
    Could be. Not sure where exactly Fe fits in for me.

    Best book in English is Filatova's. All sources should have similar content about typology basics. Do not use Reinin traits.
    Okay, thanks. Reinin traits always seemed suspect to me. An abstraction too far.
    The end is nigh

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    Aushrafarian Chin Diaper 007's Avatar
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    Mb ILI. You seem to ramble > denfine.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
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    As said in other posts, ILIs seem to have far more difficulty completing tasks while LIIs have more hesitation in starting out on an endeavour. ILIs seem to be able to immediately start working on targets with no specific plan to reach them whereas LIIs prefer to plan strategies and be very assured of success before even attempting a first step. ILIs are more adept at narrowing down on subjects and often beat them to death while LIIs have much wider focus that can be so wide that objectives may become overly daunting to them. ILIs can be more easily blindsided because their focus can be so narrow while LIIs often fail to see obvious details amid all the considerations that they usually have on their plates. ILIs seem to have a more academic bent and learn for the sake of learning while LIIs tend to learn because they want to produce a specific product. ILIs also seem to prefer thinking out loud and engaging others while LIIs like to take things away to think in isolation. LIIs also seem to be a little more diplomatic; they're closet rebels while ILIs usually make no bones about it. ILIs sometimes deliberately put on blinders for argument sake then take retorts too personally, which LIIs typically find irritating. Most ILIs often present a more self-assured, engaged persona than do LIIs who often seem rather withdrawn because of their detached, objective natures.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 01-26-2021 at 04:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    ILIs are more adept at narrowing down on subjects and often beat them to death
    Not to be confused with autism, it's just mastery.
    "The society that separates it's scholars from it's warriors will have it's thinking done by cowards and it's fighting by fools." ―Thucydides

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlier View Post
    Not to be confused with autism, it's just mastery.
    Correct. ILIs seem to value mastery above everything else except defence. With all that potential and training, many choose to not play for real as if being maximally prepared is the goal - as opposed to metaphorically winning actual games. I've had to coax/drive many over finish lines. Although nowhere close to autism, many ILIs seem to play silly-bugger a little too much; it may be a defence mechanism.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Don't hate me for saying.... ILE.
    @cactagon, @End, @FreelancePoliceman are my current most recognized INTs on the forum.

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    ILIs have a more direct communication style compared to LIIs, at least IRL. LIIs tend to take a more diplomatic approach than ILIs. ILIs also express anger more frequently and more intensely; LIIs will typically only display mild irritation -- at most, if they're quite angry at someone in particular, they'll typically just be cold to them, while an ILI would more likely curse them out and yell. ILIs will sometimes share personal thoughts, feelings, and experiences to someone they don't know particularly well; LIIs typically don't do this, or do it quite awkwardly if they do.

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    What type would y'all say that HP Lovecraft is? He is a famous person that I am very similar to in terms of thoughts, values, physical appearance, and even native region of the world. If you have thoughts about his type, it would help me type myself. Of course, I could be wrong about our similarities, but I am highly confident I am whatever his type is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    What type would y'all say that HP Lovecraft is? He is a famous person that I am very similar to in terms of thoughts, values, physical appearance, and even native region of the world. If you have thoughts about his type, it would help me type myself. Of course, I could be wrong about our similarities, but I am highly confident I am whatever his type is.
    I've typed him as IEI a while ago

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    Quote Originally Posted by dead account View Post
    I've typed him as IEI a while ago
    Could be. IEI is not the worst typing for me. The Fe creative thing would be strange though. I think most people who know me would be really confused by that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Could be. IEI is not the worst typing for me. The Fe creative thing would be strange though. I think most people who know me would be really confused by that.
    Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Why?
    I am not a people person. I don't energize people (afaik). I am amiable, but defensively because I don't feel confident in taking social risks unless I am comfortable. Those could be irrelevant to Fe creative, I admit, but I am not stereotypically good at Fe. I am good at psychologizing people, but I would not make use of this ability to help or hinder. I am also business oriented. Spreadsheet and graphs type of guy.
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I am not a people person. I don't energize people (afaik). I am amiable, but defensively because I don't feel confident in taking social risks unless I am comfortable. Those could be irrelevant to Fe creative, I admit, but I am not stereotypically good at Fe. I am good at psychologizing people, but I would not make use of this ability to help or hinder. I am also business oriented. Spreadsheet and graphs type of guy.
    would you be open about uploading a video of yourself so we can analize it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dead account View Post
    would you be open about uploading a video of yourself so we can analize it?
    Not anytime soon. I am moving into a new place. Dunno if I care enough to post a public video, so I may just pm you or whoever else.
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I am not a people person. I don't energize people (afaik). I am amiable, but defensively because I don't feel confident in taking social risks unless I am comfortable. Those could be irrelevant to Fe creative, I admit, but I am not stereotypically good at Fe. I am good at psychologizing people, but I would not make use of this ability to help or hinder. I am also business oriented. Spreadsheet and graphs type of guy.
    Let me guess. The sort guy who welcomes everyone who acts stupidly but once they do not see he lets his stress out by mocking them. Sounds quite ILI to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post
    Let me guess. The sort guy who welcomes everyone who acts stupidly but once they do not see he lets his stress out by mocking them. Sounds quite ILI to me.
    And I know a few LII's like that.

    We need better definitions.

    LII = 0
    ILI = 0
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-29-2021 at 07:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post
    Let me guess. The sort guy who welcomes everyone who acts stupidly but once they do not see he lets his stress out by mocking them. Sounds quite ILI to me.
    Maybe. Not sure if I do this more or less than the average person. I am pretty honest with people about my own failings, so any mockery comes with the implicit preface that I do the same to myself. Sometime I am too self-deprecating. Wish I could be a robot with no feelings lol.

    Having to manage people makes me wary. Like if I was forced into a leadership position my biggest worry would be my lack of charisma and assertiveness. I am better off when people have time to hear me out and see that I have interesting information to provide. I can be assertive when it comes to ethical and intellectual principles though.

    If I was do to well in a leadership position it would be because people in the organization vouched for me. I have struggled with self-advocacy because my natural tendency is to be self-critical and realistic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Maybe. Not sure if I do this more or less than the average person. I am pretty honest with people about my own failings, so any mockery comes with the implicit preface that I do the same to myself. Sometime I am too self-deprecating. Wish I could be a robot with no feelings lol.

    Having to manage people makes me wary. Like if I was forced into a leadership position my biggest worry would be my lack of charisma and assertiveness. I am better off when people have time to hear me out and see that I have interesting information to provide. I can be assertive when it comes to ethical and intellectual principles though.

    If I was do to well in a leadership position it would be because people in the organization vouched for me. I have struggled with self-advocacy because my natural tendency is to be self-critical and realistic.
    Guardians of the Galaxy or Suicide Squad?

    Suze Orman or Margot Robbie?

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    Maybe this helps,

    I originally self-typed as ILI because I value my close friendships and have a kind of valuation towards harmony or helping people and positive relationships. And I felt that I'm much more intuitively attuned over being a rigid rational type.
    What changed my mind -> although Socionics typically defines Fi in many ways, including relationships and such (which I do value), when I'm around Fi egos I realized we don't really get along. For example, they will value things, such as religion or not saying things that might be seen as racist or insensitive to someone's suffering, things like that. But I like to poke fun at those things and make stupid/silly jokes about everything. I kind of see myself as an eternal kid in a way where I don't take those things seriously and just want to have "emotional fun", but that doesn't mean I don't take my positive friendships and relationships seriously. I mean I will even make fun of my own suffering because, I don't know, it's just funny to me for some reason. But it does mean I irk Fi egos. So that's something Socionics misses imo. But as an LII, minus Fi, I otherwise get along with almost anyone. Though I am enneagram 9, so that might factor into it as well.

    As for rationality vs irrationality, I was reading a book about Jung that mentioned towards the end of Jung's life he started to see types in terms of basic groupings, such as NT, ST, NF, SF. To him that came first. So LII have strong Te and Ni and ILI have strong Ti and Ne (though observing function should theoretically be subdued in favor of leading function). So they can be very similar. So for me the big takeaway is super id differences. ILI seem to like Se things, like taking risks on intuitive understandings or taking direct action based on their intuitive perception of things, which can bug Si-valuers. LII seem to like Fe things, like being silly and making jokes about serious things and doing things more for the emotional entertainment, things that can often irk Fi valuers. Of course both can like either too, but I think it's more what you default to. And I think it's a bit different between types.
    For example,
    LII can take risks based on intuition, but in my experience it's more a Ti thing, where I analyze risk and kind of know what I'm getting into before getting into it. Like investing, I will group into high-risk/high-reward (and subsequently low-risk/low-reward) or low-risk/undervalued (moderate reward). Moderate reward is almost guaranteed to make a decent amount of money, whereas low-risk/low-reward probably won't be a lot of money (but is still safe), while high-risk can make a lot of money, but you are more likely to lose money; and I also don't really believe in short-term investing. I like to balance them all so I have a chance to make a lot of money, while never putting myself in a position to lose money. So for me, it's all calculated. An ILI as an irrational, has more of a tendency to bet on pure perception of the situation, analysis comes as an after-thought or something to boost the legitimacy of their position and they might invest in short-term or long-term depending on their perception of things. For example, crypto used to be something that had the potential to replace the banks and credit companies; it never happened, but an ILI might have bet on that potential. I think they like high-risk/high-reward investing and are more likely to get rich, but also more likely to lose money as well and more likely to bet based on perception of circumstances, rather than logic and reasoning.

    ILI can also like positive emotional atmosphere, but they don't really need it. They can be fun to work with, but then you can irk them and they might blow up, but it's short-lived and they will just be normal afterward. As an Si valuer, it takes me awhile to get back to normal. I sometimes think this is Te/Fi in general, where they are focused more on the goal and see relationships as something important to help reach goals, so interpersonal conflict is almost accepted as normal and okay as long as it doesn't deter from the goal; it's like they share some kind of relationship vision and so conflict is okay in light of that. As an LII, this is actually pretty unacceptable. I will drop team participation if things get too negative and shitty overall and have no problem doing that; I don't care how much we all have to "lose" if I'm going to be treated like shit in a team, so I think I do value Si and Fe in that regard.

    And I could be wrong, but this is what I've learned throughout the years about people and myself, regardless of whether or not this is really socionics or just something else in terms of psychology. And so I no longer type ILI anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Guardians of the Galaxy or Suicide Squad?

    Suze Orman or Margot Robbie?
    I don't watch capeshit, but I know that Orman is a lesbo and Margot Robbie is hot.
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I don't watch capeshit, but I know that Orman is a lesbo and Margot Robbie is hot.
    Is she a lesbian? I didn't know that.

    I watched GOTG on the recommendation of my LII sister, who loved the movie. She thought it was the best thing she'd seen in years, while her LSE husband couldn't watch three minutes of it. And yes, Margot Robbie is hot.

    One point for ILI for preferring Robbie, one point for ILI for being dickish.

    LII = 0
    ILI = 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Maybe this helps,
    Really good post. We seem like very similar people. If you are LII, than I am probably LII.

    I've also gone back to the Jungian basics ala Chp. X of Psychological Types. My thinking is that there was really no "Te" (for example) in P.T. Instead there was an Extraverted (comma) Thinking Type. So a Thinking type that is also Extraverted. There is a peculiar way that "Thinking" is used by an extravert, but it's still just "Thinking". All of the other three functions are to varying degrees submerged in the unconscious and take on the opposing attitude (If you are an Extraverted, Thinking type than your other functions are introverted in attitude). It's a subtle distinction from Information elements and MBTI's cognitive functions.

    The above is besides the point of this thread. I am pretty knowledgeable about the various theories, but I am trying to approach this as a noob.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Is she a lesbian? I didn't know that.

    I watched GOTG on the recommendation of my LII sister, who loved the movie. She thought it was the best thing she'd seen in years, while her LSE husband couldn't watch three minutes of it. And yes, Margot Robbie is hot.

    One point for ILI for preferring Robbie, one point for ILI for being dickish.

    LII = 0
    ILI = 2
    I support this method of typing lol. But... I could also just be a dick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I support this method of typing lol. But... I could also just be a dick.
    You could be, but I've never heard an LII admit that, while lots of ILI's have no problem owning that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    And I know a few LII's like that.
    Well there might be but they are at this point more full of anger than mood swings showing inner instability.
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    Well, find your quadra first.

    A good way to set about it: the profile of the relative you really like to avoid or don't get on with, that of the members of your 'natural group' back in high school and the rest of the groups where the 'others' were, what nonverbal or minimally verbal cues do you get from strangers that make you like them instantly and exchange words naturally. You've been here long enough to separate idiosyncrasies from IEs.
    Last edited by Rusal; 01-30-2021 at 05:03 AM.
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    You could just as well be some other type if you can't decide between quasi-identicals. Get typed by G, or make a video in the forum.

    I don't think reading the theory, like Jung's chapter X, will help. There's too much risk of misunderstanding until you have found your type so you can relate to the functions in real life and learn from that.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Good morning, socionisticianaphiles.

    I am trying to go back to basics to figure out my type and it's highly probably one of the two classic Chad types that we know everyone loves: LII and ILI. Another option is ILE, but this would overlook my strong introversion.

    I'm also trying to pretend that I am a socionics noob so as to lose baggage I have about my typing. Do y'all have any type descriptions that you favor which could help me decide? What characteristics are type "deal-breakers" between LII and ILI?

    Thanks.

    hmm after some reflection on our interactions I do find ILI very likely, not sure if that helps you, though.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    hmm after some reflection on our interactions I do find ILI very likely, not sure if that helps you, though.
    Anything that sticks out or just ephemera?
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Anything that sticks out or just ephemera?
    Ni-dom seems very clear to me now, but it's an intuitive impression. I will send you a pm next week to discuss more about it. have a ton of work to do in the next three days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    ILIs have a more direct communication style compared to LIIs, at least IRL. LIIs tend to take a more diplomatic approach than ILIs. ILIs also express anger more frequently and more intensely; LIIs will typically only display mild irritation -- at most, if they're quite angry at someone in particular, they'll typically just be cold to them, while an ILI would more likely curse them out and yell. ILIs will sometimes share personal thoughts, feelings, and experiences to someone they don't know particularly well; LIIs typically don't do this, or do it quite awkwardly if they do.
    No. ILIs have Fe polr so they would hesitate to show their true emotion to other, they could be blunt, be a dick but in a cold way. In the other hand, LIIs could be very bitchy and be annoyed to other if their work/job doesn't go well as they expect due to their Fe and their "detached from processes" nature. LII people aren't a dick, but could be a bitch.

    ILI's blunt style is :"the truth doesn't care about your feelings"
    Last edited by Moharu; 02-06-2021 at 05:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    No. ILIs have Fe polr so they would hesitate to show their true emotion to other, they could be blunt, be a dick but in a cold way. In the other hand, LIIs could be very bitchy and be annoyed to other if their work/job doesn't go well as they expect due to their Fe and their "detached from processes" nature. LII people aren't a dick, but could be a bitch.

    ILI's blunt style is :"the truth doesn't care about your feelings"
    I didn't explain this well. "Personal" is maybe a bad choice of words. It's not that they share anything deeply personal with strangers, but if they're lost in thought, thinking about something unrelated to a conversation at hand, they're more likely to mention it suddenly, even inappropriately. Or if they have strong feelings about something, especially if those feelings are negative, they might suddenly feel motivated to speak up and say "no, I don't like this. I'm not going to do this". And often in order to explain something to someone they bring up a past experience which left a strong impression on them as an example, and try to impart something of the impression it left on the listener. Some LIEs do the latter as well.

    I think for ILIs the attitude is less "the truth doesn't care about your feelings" and more "the truth is much larger than your shallow feelings, and your insofar as your feelings are shallow and inconsistent they impede both of us in our search for truth." They tend to respect strong feelings they believe are sincerely and passionately felt, even when they intellectually oppose them. Flightiness, and joking or trivial displays of emotion, they don't like, as well as any other sort of emotional display that seems to them not rooted in any deep conviction. For instance, they might not respect an animal rights activist because they feel intuitively that the activist is motivated by feelings of moral superiority, while they might on some level respect an Islamic terrorist because they feel that, even when he commits actions the ILI disapproves of, he's acting from his personal convictions.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 02-06-2021 at 07:49 AM.

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    With all you said I think 2D Fe sounds the most likely. I still don't think you have 1D Fe or Fe polr though- it's still too good to me even if it's not 3D or 4D. Fe polr to me is just... you don't make the type of jokes you make with that kind of tone. It's so much more dryer and serious and "meaner" or something. If you have Fe polr I'd have to really re-think what I think about Fe cuz it doesn't make any sense to me. SLI is like an Iceberg and ILI is like an icicle at your throat. You're... neither of those things. Unless you're pretending to have better Fe than you do to sadistically fuck with a Fe valuer at the right exact time but I don't think so? lol.

    "charts and graphs" I actually like those things too lol & they often fulfill my hidden agenda function really well. I don't really use a lot of T to create them very often though.

    I think I agree that managing people well is a high Fe thing though probably. I am actually quite good at this even though I'm shy, and easily get leadership positions because of it both online and in the real world. If I can stomach through the Te of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I didn't explain this well. "Personal" is maybe a bad choice of words. It's not that they share anything deeply personal with strangers, but if they're lost in thought, thinking about something unrelated to a conversation at hand, they're more likely to mention it suddenly, even inappropriately. Or if they have strong feelings about something, especially if those feelings are negative, they might suddenly feel motivated to speak up and say "no, I don't like this. I'm not going to do this". And often in order to explain something to someone they bring up a past experience which left a strong impression on them as an example, and try to impart something of the impression it left on the listener. Some LIEs do the latter as well.

    I think for ILIs the attitude is less "the truth doesn't care about your feelings" and more "the truth is much larger than your shallow feelings, and your insofar as your feelings are shallow and inconsistent they impede both of us in our search for truth." They tend to respect strong feelings they believe are sincerely and passionately felt, even when they intellectually oppose them. Flightiness, and joking or trivial displays of emotion, they don't like, as well as any other sort of emotional display that seems to them not rooted in any deep conviction. For instance, they might not respect an animal rights activist because they feel intuitively that the activist is motivated by feelings of moral superiority, while they might on some level respect an Islamic terrorist because they feel that, even when he commits actions the ILI disapproves of, he's acting from his personal convictions.
    You got that right, I really respect and admire people with strong convictions, even when I disagree with their ideas. I don't known if the other ILIs are the same

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