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  1. #1
    Scarlett's Avatar
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    Hi everyone, an ENTJ here.
    Can't believe I finally joined this forum, I've been a silent reader for ages.

    I've known Myer Briggs and Socionics for many years. But the idea of duality made me think it's ridiculous to be attracted to your complete opposite.
    Especially when you're in your late teens or early 20s, you know that your dual is the last person on earth you want to be with. He's just NOT your type.
    And a few years ago, I promised myself if one day I ever realised that I can actually appreciate even a little thing in my dual, I'll join this forum and make an account.
    So here I am.

    I just want to say, it takes time to actually realise that you appreciate your dual. Because it takes time to grow, to know yourself, recognise your strength and weakness, and THEN you will realise that your dual actually has the things you need. I think that's the reason dual couple is quite rare when we're in our 20s.
    We're still young and are more attracted to the things we want, not the things we need because we haven't realised what we actually need.

    Anyway, I'm not saying that duality is perfect for everyone.
    I think with some life experience and maturity, we then realise what we actually need, and now it's a matter of choice.
    Everyone is different.

    Even for me.

    As a female ENTJ, you have no idea how impossible it is to be attracted to a male ISFP (ok since I'm in a socionic forum it should be ISFj, or ESI).
    All strong women wants strong qualities in men. The confidence. Driven person. You know what I mean. The opposite of a majority of male ESI. We need a highly mature male ESI.
    It's more likely for a male LIE to find female ESI I think.

    Anyway.

    I'm a 30 yo single professional, been busy with work and now in business school doing my master's.
    Growing up, I've always been interested in interpersonal skills, I like organisations, managing people and events. I'm usually the coordinator, I've been a class president since I was in primary school.
    I like interacting with all those different people, I can learn how different we are, and take advantage of those differences to reach different goals. With high Ni, I always know what I'm doing, what's best for each person and the team.
    My enneagram is 8w9. Tritype 835. Sp/Sx. ENTJ (LIE) -Ni.

    For romantic relationship, in the past I've dated SLE, ILE, LII, ILI, SLI, LSI.
    I remember one thing.
    When I was 22, there's an ESI colleague who's in his early 30s and he was SO into me. At the time we just met. I had no interest at all and quickly realised how different we were, and I was questioning what made him attracted to me. Apart from good looks.
    And now I realised, he's in his 30s, he's mature enough to see his strength and weakness and appreciate that in me. He must've realised that I have what he doesn't have. I didn't really see that, I was 22 afterall.

    To conclude, duality is not a relationship based on attraction, if you want attraction then go find your semidual, or mirage. Even benefit or extinguishment.
    It takes time and maturity to finally establish duality, but when you do, you will realise it is the easiest intertype relationship, it's a relationship based on comfort.
    But again, duality is not for everyone, you have your type of man (or woman), you know what you want, but with time and maturity you realise what you actually need, now it's a matter of choice. Everyone is different.

    There you go. That is what I've learned looking back at the past decade, and I'm still learning, I think we all are.

    Scarlett
    Last edited by Scarlett; 02-27-2021 at 05:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Welcome, Scarlett.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett View Post
    I've known Myer Briggs and Socionics for many years. But the idea of duality made me think it's ridiculous to be attracted to your complete opposite.
    Complete opposite are conflictors. Duals have same J/P and valued functions.

    For most people it should be easy to notice that sympathies to people of opposite sex are significantly linked with IR theory in IRL communications with correctly known types.

    I recommend to make a videointerview and get opinions about your type.
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1096450
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Scarlett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Complete opposite are conflictors. Duals have same J/P and valued functions.
    Yes what I meant was dual.

    You know, when you're young, you meet your dual and think he's like the opposite of you, you just ignore him and move on.
    But after a few years being with him you finally realise you get along really well, everything seems so easy and comfortable, this is dual.
    That's what I meant.

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    Hi, I like how you type ^_^ also a silent reader here, for many years. Love Gamma NT's, they fill my mind up with goodies

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    Modern psychology tries to tell us we need to look for people who are similar to ourselves, and doesn't distinguish between being having similar personality traits and having similar values/interests. Socionics otoh tells us that when it comes to personality traits, ideally it's best with somone who complements you, not someone who is like you.
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

    ~Nietzsche

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    Scarlett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revelations View Post
    Hi, I like how you type ^_^ also a silent reader here, for many years. Love Gamma NT's, they fill my mind up with goodies
    You seem like SEE. Are you SEE?
    SEE is one of my favourite sensors. They're fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    Modern psychology tries to tell us we need to look for people who are similar to ourselves, and doesn't distinguish between being having similar personality traits and having similar values/interests. Socionics otoh tells us that when it comes to personality traits, ideally it's best with somone who complements you, not someone who is like you.
    Agree.

    You choose then.

    But anyway, I know myself very well.
    I'm always drawn to someone who's intelligent, confident, ok let me give you an example. I love watching movies, and I can always relate to the "bad guy" because they usually have NTJ traits, similar to myself, so yeah I'm always drawn to ILI, which is my mirror.
    The only protagonist character I like in movies is LSI, which is my mirage. And you know how they say LSI sometimes looks like LIE.
    You get what I mean? We're drawn to someone who's similar to ourselves. At least I am.

    On the other hand, I am not interested at all in any feeling characters in movies/stories. They're too good, too nice, I somehow hate "too nice" character.
    The only exception probably is IEE. I'm drawn to IEE because I think they're quite logical compared to other feelers, thanks to tert-Te.

    Ok, I know it's just movies, they're not real. But still, the real one here is you. Me.
    Even in real life, I'm still not drawn to a "really nice guy" like ESI. I don't hate him either, it's more like a neutral feeling, I don't really care about him.
    What is actually my type? Someone who's intelligent, confident, similar like me, which is my mirror, ILI.
    Or my mirage, LSI, they're quick like me.
    Or, if I want to give a chance for a feeler then it's my benefactor, IEE.

    ESI guy is just not my tipe. But as long as I don't ignore him straight away, after some time I actually realise we get along really well, and THEN I finally start admiring him.


    I'll add this. Remember, I'm a female LIE. It's usually a male ESI who's into me first.
    It's always been.
    And I notice that.
    Last edited by Scarlett; 01-19-2021 at 12:36 AM.

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    Everyone, after several days of research, now I've finally found what I'm actually looking for.

    I know dual is the most ideal intertype relationship, and I DO realise it is the most comfortable.
    But again, every individual is different. And to me, comfortable is not enough. I need attraction, connection, excitement.

    I know myself really well, and like I told you, I have never been attracted or felt connected with my dual, ESI male.
    But not the other way around, seems like male LIE's are drawn to female ESI, I don't know how but it is what it is. And I'm happy for you all LIE male and ESI female out there.

    To be honest, I actually quite admire female ESI, somehow I get it why male LIE are SO into them.
    But as a female LIE, I want and need a man who is equal to me. Quick like me. Strong like me. Confident like me. Someone equal.

    In my late teens or early 20s, I thought it was my extinguishment, male LII's are amazing, exciting, but I knew I wouldn't marry this type of person, they're fun as a mind-mates, but not fun to be a life partner.

    The same goes for my semidual, EII.
    If I had a Te-subtype, my semidual EII-Fi would be perfect, you know they say LIE-Te and EII-Fi feels like dual.
    But no, I don't have Te-subtype, I have Ni-subtype and I realise when you're LIE-Ni, your Fi is already quite good, so I'm not into EII-Fi, it's too much for me (that explains why I don't like e4).
    But I don't want to be with EII-Ne either. LIE-Ni and EII-Ne feels like extinguishment. It is SO exciting, but again, more like mindmates, not life partner.

    After semidual, they say mirage is up on the list.
    I admire male LSI. Quick, strong, smart. Not like male ESI. Ok I'm not saying ESI's are not quick, not smart, and not strong, but those are just impressions when I see them.
    But the difference is, the conversation, it's not warm, not exciting, seems like I'm the only one who wants to talk about A, B, C, and they just want to do it straight away without discussing about it deeper.

    The only type that I think is exciting and comfortable is actually my benefactor, male IEE.
    Because we both share the same judging functions, so we can connect like no other, plus, we both are intuitives.
    But somehow it's me who's sooo into him, more than the other way around.
    Because I can see that with my beneficiary, SLE's are so drawn to me. I like them but I never admire them the same way they admire me.

    It's an asymmetric relation anyway, deep down the IEE will resent me because I don't value Si at all, like at all. But I know it's the most precious thing for them.
    Same like SLE. I think the reason why I never admire them is because they don't value Fi at all, and I can see that, and I can't trust my precious Fi to someone like that.

    Anyway. Asymmetric relations are never a good idea. So, it's a no to supervision as well.
    We all know conflict and superego are not good for romantic, so, skip that.
    That leaves me with quasi-identity, kindred, and look a like.

    My quasi identity, ILE, is my bestfriend.
    Really, they're similar to my extinguishment, but more fun, just because of the extrovert-introvert differences.
    Like LII, ILE to me is more like mindmates, not life partner.

    And so is my kindred!
    It's funny, people say LIE and LSE rarely get along well, but LSE is actually one of my bestfriends! A healthy one, of course. I'm talking all about healthy types here ok.
    But I definitely don't want to have a life together with him. We have fundamental differences here, high Ni vs high Si. Respect.

    And finally.
    FINALLY.
    I found the one that I like, want, and need.
    My look a like, EIE male.

    But not all of them.

    Let me tell you.
    I think I told you some time ago that I always admire enneagram 2 and enjoy enneagram 7.
    I know myself well enough that I'm not interested in e4 and e6.
    E2 represents Fe, and e7 represents Se. (Ok please, anyone reading this, don't ever think I say e2=Fe and e7=Se, it's not what I meant. Because it is not. Do not take everything literally. It's just representation, you relate it figuratively).
    And EIE's have Fe and Se! Perfect.

    But someone with high Fe and enneagram 2, it will be too much for me, especially if they're So-first in instinctual stacks.
    Like I said before in other thread I think, I'm not into So-first, and I need Sx because I'm a Sp/Sx. So my options would be only Sp/Sx, Sx/Sp, and Sx/So.
    And you know how I admire e2, but actually, more specifically the 2w1.
    And the last one, the subtype, just like me I don't have Te-subtype, I don't want/like Fe-subtype either. Ni-subtype is the one.

    And when you're a LIE-Ni you will have a quite good Fi, the same goes for EIE-Ni as well, they have quite good Ti.
    When LIE-Ni have a quite good Fi, they kind of look like their look-a-like partner, EIE.
    When EIE-Ni have a quite good Ti, they kind of look like their look-a-like partner, LIE.

    I know this because I notice that. I've met many EIE in my time at uni, at work, in organisations, I'm quite an active person.
    But my 9-wing makes me an LIE e8 somehow appear introverted and private. The same with their 1-wing makes EIE e2 appear more introverted and private. But we're both still active persons, like to go out and about.

    So, that's it.
    I'm a female LIE-Ni 8w9 835 Sp/Sx
    and the best for me is male EIE-Ni 2w1 279 Sx/So

    I've had several EIE colleagues/friends before, and we get a long really well, we're like power couple together. And I like it that way.
    And I've known a few look-a-like couple. The way I see them, it's a really strong relationship. I think you just have to find the matching instinctual, enneagram, and sub-type.

  9. #9
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    Hi, Scarlett.
    I agree that sp/sx is a great match for sx/so.

    I was married to my Supervisor for many years. I'm 8w7 and she might be 1w2 or 2w1. That part worked out fairly well, although I'm not sure that it's optimal.

    I've never been attracted to an EIE, although I've had two failed relationships with LSI's.

    I think that being mature and healthy and having all your "numbers" (intelligence, attractiveness, earning ability, etc) add up to the same number that your mate has is also very, very important.

    It's one thing to know the characteristics of a perfect match, but finding that person is another matter. At some point, you might find yourself saying "This person is good enough."

    And hopefully, they will in return say, "This person is good enough."

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