Diving into ‘woke racism’ with John McWhorter - Sedecology
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Wokism is Actually Conservative
Diving into ‘woke racism’ with John McWhorter - Sedecology
Join this discussion on Sedecology!
@Pseudomorph
So announced leaving the forum did not happen. It was "fake news" in your favorite terms.
And now you seem to offer read another "fake news". Just on another site.
Also, taking that before you said that reject basic Socionics ideas, so the content of another site which you prefer should reject basic Socionics ideas too. Additionally taking that your approach lacked the reason, the same should be expected with what you may recommend. Then for the ones interested in Socionics and common reason, which people here are supposed, there should not be much of interest for them to do discussions in places which attract you.
P. S.
> "Live. Laugh. Love" // Friedrich Nietzsche
"One of the most famous quotations credited to Freud is that, when asked what he thought a psychologically healthy person should be able to do, he said: “to love and to work”." (link)
Following to common psyche health understanding, I'd add also feeling general pleasant state and helping others to feel pleasant state.
Last edited by Sol; 08-12-2023 at 02:02 PM.
Who from here is there?
Is it an exodus from here, or will it become one.....
Black & white is a shallow divide, division is the color that multiplies
If you can wash your brain, your brain isn't a wash, it is awash
To experience is simple, to explain is divine
Hearts of stone are a dead giveaway: no movement
It's a truism that socioeconomic circumstances are at least partially downstream from inherited group identity, and it is indisputably progressive to shine a light on ways that people are unfairly sorted out on the basis of uncontrollable accidents of birth. This 'soft' version of wokeness doesn't really deviate from old style leftism.
Where wokeness stops being progressive is when it attempts to order inherited group differences into rigid social norms (and sometimes into law). When it promotes the idea that personal attitudes and beliefs are a result of tribal affiliation, not the product of independent reasoning and reflection, it's fair to say that the woke worldview becomes something that's illiberal.
As for its causes: I'm almost certain that there are many, but one underexamined possibility is that it's an emerging moral system, used to fill the vacuum in politeness and religious civility caused by the 1960's cultural revolution. Many people want to be 'good'. How sincere or coherent that desire is varies from person to person, but the woke movement has acted as a convenient vehicle for those who want to be proactively chivalrous. In time, wokeness may even end up replacing or complementing the old Christian conservative morality.
It's also worth examining the premise that a lot of wokeness has been pushed, in a calculated way, by the Democratic party itself as part of a political realignment, in order to manufacture a new base as a substitute for the white working class whose interests they've largely abandoned (vice versa, lots of anti-wokeness is being pushed by the Republicans for the sole purpose of rallying or manufacturing a political base of their own). Not everything has a purely sociological explanation; bot farms quite credibly exist and so do political shenanigans.
Last edited by xerx; 08-10-2023 at 03:51 AM. Reason: a few words
I think it (alongside other divisive, attention-grabbing rubbish) is being pushed, from slightly further up the chain, by the nonpartisan elite and through the establishment, to distract people's attention from important ongoing issues much more relevant to their well-being. Keep the peasants arguing over gender pronouns and cultural (non-)issues while you screw them over. I agree with the rest.Originally Posted by xerx
Last edited by Park; 08-14-2023 at 06:07 PM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Wokeness is already dying, it's not even that popular amongst libs these days.
It turns out that for a "new morality" to last longer than a decade or so the underlying ideas must be coherent, otherwise people just reject the ideas given enough time.
"Dogmatism is rationality!
War is peace!
Freedom is slavery!
Ignorance is strength!"
— Sol
"Live. Laugh. Love," is a quote based on an extreme simplification of a poem by Ralph Waldo Emerson, which goes to show how "logical" you really are, Mr. Spock. My attribution of it to Friedrich Nietzsche is intentionally spurious because I always get a kick out of how people like Jordan Peterson are now reducing Nietzsche to basically kitsch and a bunch of empty platitudes. If you're going to quote Nietzsche the way many pop cultureniks are, you might as well be attributing "Live. Laugh. Love," to the guy who talked about the eternal recurrence of the same with a demon coming to you in your loneliness and how mankind is a bridge and an obstacle. Emerson is great too, but people have also oversimplified him, just that he's a little more optimistic-sounding on the surface than Nietzsche, so reducing Nietzsche the same way just strikes me as so comical.
“It doesn’t matter who said it, as long as it’s inspiring.” – Fake Buddha Quotes
@Pseudomorph
You had Ahriman on the avatar.
It should be expected from Tzeentch cultists to mislead about yourself and to popularize misleadings.
Now we are assured what sedecology site is.Ibrahim was noticed with heresies before.
@Pseudomorph wokeism ends with you
You plan, Tzeentch laughs.@Pseudomorph
You had Ahriman on the avatar.
It should be expected from Tzeentch cultists to mislead about yourself and to popularize misleadings.
Now we are assured what sedecology site is.
@Pseudomorph
+1 to Tzeentch games
SadEcology
Maybe "conservative" is not the right word. All movements can become extreme or be used for virtue signalling. It's the attitude of the Pharisees in the Bible that repeats itself everywhere. I think it was Marie-Louise von Franz who said that even fascism in Germany could have been a positive creative movement if people hadn't gotten possessed with it. I'm also thinking about Sweden were the warm welcoming attitude of the people turned into mandatory mass-immigration with bad consequenses.
I'm not particularly "woke" but it's obvious that awarness of racism and such is a good thing in moderation, as long as there is a connection to reality and common sense. Goes for all ideologies, connection to reality and common sense.
I would rather use "conservative" for those who cherish the values of the past and tradition.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Some of the more novel, internet-driven forms of identity politics never fully caught on, I agree; outside of certain elite sectors, non-binary gender pronouns never managed to seep into everyday speech. But even in this case, so much has already been codified into bureaucracy that it isn't going away any time soon (not as quickly as other internet memes). On government and corporate forms, I reliably encounter pronoun-related questions.
The desire to be polite and to be surrounded by elevated speech, whichever form that takes, as well as the desire to be considerate... that's never going away.
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