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Thread: What do you think about Conflicting Relations ?

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    Default What do you think about Conflicting Relations ?

    My story (ILI):

    Usually, I don't care about ESEs, and I hope they will treat me the same, just ignore me, but....

    My Fe polr makes them feel upset. I don't understand about the norm, they will try to teach me about the norm, I don't remember people's name, they'll judge me for being... careless ?? My behaviour does not meet their standard, they will... I made a little mistake (in my point of view), and they will... I don't care about some traditional group activities,....

    Since I do not value anything they care about, of course I won't change just because they told me to do so. And of course they piss off. From then on, they began to use manipulation tactics, trying to change my behaviour and mindset. They think there must be a deep reason why I became the (bad) person I am now, maybe it's my parent faults or something? lol They just don't understand and accept that different person have different values.

    And I must say, compare to EIEs and IEIs, their manipulate skills are so so bad, it make me think: "should I teach them how to influence other people?", even I'm not good at it. And because their abilities are suck, I lost interest, keep the poker face, and don't give any response to them.

    So, the level of their "piss off" increases to level 2, level 3.... And they may keep trying (or not), to the point it annoys me, and I began to "pissed off" level 1, level 2... and finally, I decide to cut them out of my life once and for all...




    Yeah, I know that we could be friend with any type if we put enough effort into it, but the important thing is: there is no reason to be friend with the person you have no interest in at all.
    Last edited by Moharu; 12-31-2020 at 05:51 AM.

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    SLIs are usually ok with me if I tone down my expression a bit. They most likely won't be the best romantic match but they are cool people usually.

    I put in 7 years trying to understand a SLI friend of mine and we have been solid friends for 5 of those years. We have had our differences and frustrations along the way but we do value each other. I don't think I would ever spend that much time ever again to try to cultivate a friendship like that with a conflictor again. Too much damn time and effort.
    Last edited by Consilience; 12-30-2020 at 03:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Consilience View Post
    SLIs are usually ok with me if I tone down my expression a bit. They most likely won't be the romantic match but they are cool people usually.

    I put in 7 years trying to understand a SLI friend of mine and we have been solid friends for 5 of those years. We have had our differences and frustrations along the way but we do value each other. I don't think I would ever spend that much time ever again to try to cultivate a friendship like that with a conflictor again. Too much damn time and effort.
    It seem in SLI vs EIE case, Ni creative help the EIE better at understanding other's motivate, limit some of their actions that could make them step in the SLI' shoes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    It seem in SLI vs EIE case, Ni creative help the EIE better at understanding other's motivate, limit some of the EIE' actions that could make them step in the SLI' shoes.
    Precisely. I am usually the one who puts in more effort on the emotional front. He used to hurt my feelings a lot unintentionally but I have learned to be more understanding and accommodating of his quirks. On his end, he tries to be consistent with me regarding plans and gives me his undivided attention. So it's comforting to me even if he doesn't quite get me emotionally. We both highly value "quality time".

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    Two SEEs have flirted with me socially but both came across as not really into to me - nor did they appear to have any real objectives in life other than self-amusement. In a work scenario, they're a lot easier to deal with on a personal level than say my mirrors but they didn't seem as work focused, which really isn't saying much because ILEs tend to go off on a lot of tangents. They seem to be able to find solutions but often not have the initiative to actually put them into effect; they may be more productive working for themselves in their own businesses because they do seem to value freedom more than anything else. I do like their often flippant, irreverent nature; they sometimes say things out loud that I would like to say but couldn't.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    My conflicting type is LSE and my relationship with them are usually shallow, not horrible but not deep either. I can look pass their type and traits, but sometimes it is a lot for me to take in. One of my friend is an LSE-Se. I really admire them in many ways. They know how to take opportunities and taking risk when the moment calls for it. But the "dark" side is reckless Se (same with ESI and SEE). The way she handle stress is emotionally taxing (same with another LSE friend). They become loud, very expressive of frustrating, and cannot handle their emotions well. I learned that they can be a bit tad sensitive. Just my experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daybyday View Post
    My conflicting type is LSE and my relationship with them are usually shallow, not horrible but not deep either. I can look pass their type and traits, but sometimes it is a lot for me to take in. One of my friend is an LSE-Se. I really admire them in many ways. They know how to take opportunities and taking risk when the moment calls for it. But the "dark" side is reckless Se (same with ESI and SEE). The way she handle stress is emotionally taxing (same with another LSE friend). They become loud, very expressive of frustrating, and cannot handle their emotions well. I learned that they can be a bit tad sensitive. Just my experience.
    You mean SLE - Se?

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    > Yeah, I know that we could be friend with any type if we put enough effort into it

    as you may jump on the Moon if will make enough effort into it

    To be friends with a conflictor alike you'd was with a dual needs to remove your Jung type. In other case values difference will annoy you much. You'll be feeling tired, as minimum.
    On practice you may be pals, may cooperate good for something. But not be good friends. Though it's not rare when surface relations are named as friendship.

    P.S.
    make a typing theme with a video. mb your type is not ILI
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    My Fe polr makes them feel upset. I don't understand about the norm, they will try to teach me about the norm, I don't remember people's name, they'll judge me for being... careless ?? My behaviour does not meet their standard, they will... I made a little mistake (in my point of view), and they will... I don't care about some traditional group activities,....
    I can say a lot about this as my older brother is ESE. He doesn't teach me about the norm or anything (he can try but I'll surely say biting remarks) but ESEs can be very, very judgmental when you follow what you want instead of preserving the group atmosphere. Specially when they are hosting an event (which they always do), not trying to act like how they want you to act (eat their food, vocally give appreciation, act merry, join in the conversation) will make you look ungrateful. Also since they dominate the social sphere calling them out just makes you look like an ass so don't ever do it.

    There's just a lot of things that frustrate me about them because our values conflict. God I don't even know where to start, everything is just wrong.

    It's just an unfortunate relationship because on my good days I just want them to appreciate how important it is to be your own person. To forge your own path in life and to not care about what others think even just once. Also, that sometimes people choose to suffer for a higher purpose or goal. (Also be straight with money matters for fuck's sake, like they don't have the skill to account for things without being neurotic.) And they probably think I could do so much better by following their approach in life. And that's fine, let's just leave each other alone.

    Additional thing I noticed, they also have the tendency to be proud of what they have learned (at a very, very superficial level) but they are just learning those things just for the sake of showing that they know it to others, some sort of a conversation starter if you will. Also, to make them look good socially and to be part of a group. Everything they do is just for them to be loved socially. I really think this is such a bs thing to do so it frustrates me when I see it firsthand. I naturally see them as a hollow being with no substance. But I am trying to be less judgmental for my own betterment so instead of thinking that, it's better for me to see it as LII's paradise and think that we are all just working as how we are intended. They also serve as a comparison for dual SEE, I think you'll get to appreciate SEE a lot after being close with ESE for so long ("Finally, someone focuses on the right things").

    (Almost forgot, ESEs HATE ILIs Ni and intuitive thoughts in general. They see it as bull and it makes you look simultaneously dumb and genius enough to be resented for ime. lol)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    Yeah, I know that we could be friend with any type if we put enough effort into it, but the important thing is: there is no reason to be friend with the person you have no interest in at all.
    Learning about socionics made me somewhat open-minded about people's values specially the ones in my life but at the end of the day I can only understand, but I cannot make the relationship better. Sometimes it's better to just leave each other alone.

    How I would frame it is that, you don't have to force yourself to make a friendship (or any relationship) work. If interests and values don't align, then both of you don't have to push it. When you find the right people, you don't have to force anything.

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    They can be very good for business and projects, but really bad for romance and close friendships. As long as you know how to keep the right distance, it's fine- but the "real you" will never really be fully loved or accepted by them. Not that your dual would be much better in that area- but the way the functions work in the brain mechanically, it at least keeps up that illusion much better. Both can be really nice and empathetic, although I think Confiction often goes through this rough patch of mutual sadism before that happens. Duality can be similar in that way too- to be honest a j/p difference can be a lot more subtle, nuanced and interesting than people think anyway. There are times your conflictor gets mistaken for your dual anyway as like for example, both EII/IEI can mirror each other at times.

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    Your conflictor is interesting at first. Because they're different. Our differences are what make us interesting, right?
    But as soon as you get closer to your conflictor, you will realise there's fundamental differences there.
    It's not all bad actually. You just respect that.

    They're not good for romantic relationship, for sure. But for friendship? I have quite a few SEI close friends.
    It's not like really deep close friendship, but still, I respect them. And I told them in the beginning, you and I are different. Respect that.

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    ITR doesn't correlate well with my experiences at all. I loathe myself and other ESI-Fi (I think most people find ESI-Fi super annoying with no redeeming qualities), we're one of my least favorite types.

    That said, I appreciate my conflictors (at least the Ti subtype, which is way, way more common IMO), although much more for their artwork and language usage than their scientific achievements (they really don't stand out as scientists but that's JMO; I mean, I think science is great, but they stand out far more in the language and visual arts and even social skills than they do in science other than working with pre-existing structures, equipment, and tools which they can work with like no other and it always excites me in good ways). Difficulties in communication are there, but it's mainly due to them never explaining why they do things. People saying they're talkative, but my experiences with them prove the opposite. They're very non-verbal, expect people to be able to figure out everything on their own (I wish I could), and less talkative on average than LSI on average. I don't get along with them that well and they can't stand my company. But it's mainly them feeling tension and wanting to end the relationship not the other way around; with the Se subtype it's the other way around, they usually like the Se subtype but the Se subtype is usually like whatever, can take them or leave them unless they're of benefit when they think they can't do something...

    ESI-Fi and ESI-Se are way more different to me than they are similar to me, although ESI do tend to differ from each other in interests and life paths quite a bit since they're Fi base with Ne-PoLR. I usually love ESI-Se (as do the vast majority of people), although I'm envious of what they have, what they are, and they're generally more satisfied with life than I could ever be for long.

    There are mad similarities between all ILE-Ti, there are some differences here and there, but they're way more like each other than they are different and if ever they are extremely different from each other it's either they're psychopaths (which is masked) or due to something was in an environment they had to escape from (or something they enjoyed from their childhood to teen years and want to keep forever) or if they're extreme public geniuses like Einstein, Hawking or Tesla (but those are rare). They also differ from each other in some ways, in cognition (slightly) and some preferences and some are more aggressive, angry, and violent than others (e.g., Kimberly Kane compared to Kelsey Obsession, Kimberly Kane has a more mature, more Beta ST vibe and worldview and behaviors and is darker and genuinely physically took her anger out on one guy), but outwardly ILE-Ti are quite similar to each other... I think a lot of it has to do with the fact they consciously select for intelligence more than any other type when marrying and having kids with someone, so ever since they first came into existence, they probably usually stayed within a small genepool (to illustrate my point, they're one of the 2 most common types among females of european jewish descent).

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    I'm living with my conflictor right now. She's my new roommate. I'm ESI, she's ILE.

    We're coming up on two weeks, and it's not great. She has a lot of nice qualities and we've had some bonding moments, but goddamn the awkwardness and ambivalence is mostly what I feel. She wants to get to know me more and have more dinners together in the house... I want to keep her happy and keep myself happy. Most of the advice I've gotten from an ILI and ESE so far has been... detach a little bit from wanting us to click. And that can help free me from the cycle of excitement when do click and repulsion and serious overthinking and anxiety spells when we don't.

    I practice Buddhist meditation, and I've thought of equanimity as a quality whose development would really, really enhance my life. I guess I've made up my mind that living with this woman until August when I'm getting my own place is going to teach me this virtue.

    Welcome any other advice. A new person is about to fill the 3rd bedroom, too soon to know his type but he seems very sweet ('I like reading self-help books' me- YAY! 'about finance' me- Oh... 'and you know, how to be more in touch with yourself' me- hums internally and smiles).

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    Quote Originally Posted by spaciousfreedom View Post
    I'm living with my conflictor right now. She's my new roommate. I'm ESI, she's ILE.

    We're coming up on two weeks, and it's not great. She has a lot of nice qualities and we've had some bonding moments, but goddamn the awkwardness and ambivalence is mostly what I feel. She wants to get to know me more and have more dinners together in the house... I want to keep her happy and keep myself happy. Most of the advice I've gotten from an ILI and ESE so far has been... detach a little bit from wanting us to click. And that can help free me from the cycle of excitement when do click and repulsion and serious overthinking and anxiety spells when we don't.

    I practice Buddhist meditation, and I've thought of equanimity as a quality whose development would really, really enhance my life. I guess I've made up my mind that living with this woman until August when I'm getting my own place is going to teach me this virtue.

    Welcome any other advice. A new person is about to fill the 3rd bedroom, too soon to know his type but he seems very sweet ('I like reading self-help books' me- YAY! 'about finance' me- Oh... 'and you know, how to be more in touch with yourself' me- hums internally and smiles).
    My advice is to be nice, be professional, and be as far apart as you can get.

    I work with a female conflictor and from a distance, she's capable, intelligent, competent, and her dress habits elevate the office. But I once told her a joke and she later asked me to not tell her any more jokes. So I haven't.

    She's terrific as long as I stay six feet away and limit our conversations to business topics and less than three minutes.

    The more you get to know some people, the less you will like them. You might experience a miracle and find that the two of you can elevate each other to new heights of social and personal insight and happiness, but the odds are against it.

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    Some are total hags some are not. Some of them present themselves good professionally but that is it. I don't actually have any good use for it. I don't need anyone to put me in a leash but maybe some have that need.
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    Me: doing whatever, following my curiosity and being nice in general.

    LSI DNCH-Dominant: What are you doing here? Prove it to me! Who are you? Are you a terrorist? Put your hands where I can see'em! Don't move or I'm gonna shoot!

    Me: It's an error.... I work here!

    LSI: *shoots*
    LSI: .....
    LSI: It was self-defence against a terrorist anyway. Phew, that was a close call ! I'm a f*****g hero!

    It would be funny if only this kind of scenario didn't repeat again and again. It's like they are stuck in their own neurotic projection and feeding themselves all these confirmation bias. With other LSI DCNH subtypes the issue is not as bad.
    I rarely feel alone. I rarely talk to anyone, yet in my head i have the most amazing, the most fantastic discussions with the people in my life. In real life, what most people talk about is several orders of magnitude lesser than their inner experiences. Most people never reveal the singularity of their subjective experience.
    Maybe I should learn to explore other people's consciousness. Maybe I should aim for a real space between me and others. Instead of cultivating monologues and fantasies. It's hard, but the alternative to this seems to be madness. ~ lkdhf qkb

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    They have charm, are good with people stuff. But they have poor minds for picking intellectual nuance in a regular fashion and sometimes reason wrong, which can be annoying in discussions about hot topics (which they often bring up). If the discussion is seen as a form of entertainment, it can be ok. Just don't take the discussion too seriously unless it's something practical.

    I've had a few IEE friends, all male, and as per Gulenko my "former girlfriend" (as he puts it, a girl a I got close to without it being official) is my conflictor, though I think she's ILE. Two female IEEs I have known were family friends. Both have very illogical minds but act like they know a whole lot. One is the Dominant subtype and I think it's more obvious with her - she acts like she knows how to do stuff but to me it is clear she has no practical know-how in subjects she brags about, more like she knows-how to give the impression she knows by talking about it. The other, not sure of her subtype, she tends not to hide her own impracticality, it's clear to me she has no practical know-how or competencies at anything. And her mind isn't very logical. She mostly focuses on emotional impact. Tends to distort facts, I guess, though really that's because she doesn't understand nuance. Just remembers the emotional information, how it affects her/people. But at least she has good-intentions towards pretty much everyone.

    All in all, I think intellectual fields which require alot of precision or technical work is not for them. Their intuition is good at connecting the dots though which tends to make up for it when it comes to dealing with philosophical or psychological subjects. Some are very curious and work in intlecctual fields, which I respect - but fields which are too technical are probably not for them. I admire their independence, same with ILE. I think Ne leads are very independent, in the broadest sense of the word 'independence'.
    Last edited by Uncle Ave; Today at 09:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Me: doing whatever, following my curiosity and being nice in general.

    LSI DNCH-Dominant: What are you doing here? Prove it to me! Who are you? Are you a terrorist? Put your hands where I can see'em! Don't move or I'm gonna shoot!

    Me: It's an error.... I work here!

    LSI: *shoots*
    LSI: .....
    LSI: It was self-defence against a terrorist anyway. Phew, that was a close call ! I'm a f*****g hero!

    It would be funny if only this kind of scenario didn't repeat again and again. It's like they are stuck in their own neurotic projection and feeding themselves all these confirmation bias. With other LSI DCNH subtypes the issue is not as bad.
    Sounds to me like you work for the US government or something, haha.

    But yeah, LSIs can be paranoid. I'm not really paranoid in official or work situations such as you describe, at least much less so, but I can be in personal relationships in the sense I see ill will where there might be none. Must be fun dating me...lol.
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

    ~Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    My advice is to be nice, be professional, and be as far apart as you can get.

    I work with a female conflictor and from a distance, she's capable, intelligent, competent, and her dress habits elevate the office. But I once told her a joke and she later asked me to not tell her any more jokes. So I haven't.

    She's terrific as long as I stay six feet away and limit our conversations to business topics and less than three minutes.
    Thanks... now that I've seen that our bonding moments last week were a blip/anomaly, as much distance as possible is certainly my natural inclination. I dated an ILE a few years back and disaster ensued, so unfortunately I'm no stranger to conflicting relations -.- -- grew a LOT at listening to myself since then, though!

    Jokes are such an interesting area with your conflictor because the way in which my jokes visibly didn't resonate with her in our first interaction was my first sign of how we relate. They were little asides that would go over well with most people, ime, and she seemed to be thinking 'huuuuh? oh...' *weak laugh*.

    Sometimes they go well though (and Ireadthat it's recommended in these relations to tell jokes to boost one another's mood, but to joke carefully) but I like the summary of polite, professional, and far away as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    The more you get to know some people, the less you will like them. You might experience a miracle and find that the two of you can elevate each other to new heights of social and personal insight and happiness, but the odds are against it.

    Mm, I had a wonderful EIE roommate last semester who told me that it's rare that she likes someone more the more she gets to know them. That Ni wisdom was like candy to me, I felt like 'you're so great, I just don't need all that Fe, switch with Te pls, but you're awesomeeee.'

    TY! - first-time poster today
    Last edited by spaciousfreedom; Today at 10:06 PM. Reason: formatting

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    It's amusing to piss off LSI's. Some are okay, it's still fun to piss them off though. They are quite the meat head.

    I think I dislike ESE more. I really hate Fe leads' bitchy behavior.
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