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Thread: Which type do you think it is the hardest to get to know?

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    Default Which type do you think it is the hardest to get to know?

    [Still new to this after 2 years of reading occasionally] Since people have complained that they can't get past my barriers and really get to know me in depth, I was wondering what this was in the context of socionics. I must admit that only now, I got to understand what they were telling me and quite frankly, I don't know how to change it. Is it low Fi? Unvalued Fe? I have no clue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
    [Still new to this after 2 years of reading occasionally] Since people have complained that they can't get past my barriers and really get to know me in depth, I was wondering what this was in the context of socionics. I must admit that only now, I got to understand what they were telling me and quite frankly, I don't know how to change it. Is it low Fi? Unvalued Fe? I have no clue.
    Hey,

    What do you mean by barriers exactly?

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    I've been told that they get to know me to a certain point, and from there on, it's like they can no longer reach me. It is like I am blocking them to get to know what is going on inside my head and who I am as a person. I hope I explained well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
    I've been told that they get to know me to a certain point, and from there on, it's like they can no longer reach me. It is like I am blocking them to get to know what is going on inside my head and who I am as a person. I hope I explained well
    What's your type?

    --If you're a heavy Ti type, socializing maybe tough because you're always stuck in your head, analyzing and reasoning
    --If you have low Fe, you may have trouble expressing appropriate social cues/responses
    --If you have low Fi, you may have difficulty expressing how you truly feel about someone/something

    Fortunately, like anything in life, you can rebalance yourself and learn to open yourself up, through practice - don't let types be a barrier

    The feeling like you're blocking people out - it's all in your head. Maybe you feel judged because you don't feel like you belong, and people are feeling that because "what you feel, they feel." They'll pick up on your insecure vibe and go "huh, I didn’t really have an opinion about this guy either way, he seemed like a nice enough dude…but he’s giving off this other vibe, hmmm" and it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I would not overthink it and just bulldoze through and practice having convos / opening up.

    Say you're at some kind of event, choose some easy things to talk about, such as work.

    If you don’t want to talk topics like work, lead the conversation elsewhere. If a chick is like “What do you do?” Just go “Oh god, please, I don’t want to talk about work tonight. Tell me something interesting about yourself that isn’t job related…have you ever (blah)?”

    “Oh, I work in the stuffy boring corporate world. I’ve been pushing papers all week watching my soul slowly die and my girl was like “come out to this event with me” so I figured ya, why not I’ve never been to one of these before. Everyone is all done up and friendly, it’s awesome.

    If you’re a janitor, be proud and enthusiastic about it if it comes up. And give other people sincere props for their accomplishments/jobs instead of resenting them. Spread value, good emotions, etc. and act as if you expect people to be friendly and they’ll “feel what you feel” and reciprocate.

    Again it is 100% in your head. You’re letting people overwhelm and intimidate you. It’s all an illusion. Eeeeeeeveryone is full of shit and putting up a fake “front” persona/facade to try to impress each other. Most of those people don’t act that way when they’re like, with their family opening Xmas presents or with their childhood best buddies having a beer and watching a football game. The environment intimidates them, so they try to put on a front to seem like they belong there.

    I would make it goal to try and push your comfort zone to open up more and more, every sociotype is capable of this
    Last edited by DrDonkeyBallz; 12-27-2020 at 01:42 AM.

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    I don’t think this is necessarily related to socionics.

    But IF we were to dissect this in the context of socionics, then...
    I’d say it is harder to get to know people of asymmetrical IR or the opposing quadra.

    So yeah, low-valued Fi doesn’t help communication in the presence of people who actively use Fi or seek it.
    etc.
    Last edited by DeliMeat; 12-27-2020 at 03:23 AM.

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    Fe plor: hard to begin with
    Fi polr: hard when looking for a deeper emotional connection
    Ti dom and Ni dom : hard to understand

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    You have to answer the question of whether you want them to know you more deeply or not. If the answer is yes, you have to let go of uncertainty and commit to that. That will remove the barrier.

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    Do you put up walls deliberately?

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    SLI is usually dubbed as an iceberg. Someone has to warm them up or something and no other than IEE can do it.
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    maybe SLI

    the first person that comes to mind that is hardest to get to know is my dad, who I type SLI. He’s very private and doesn’t talk much. mysterious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    SLI is usually dubbed as an iceberg. Someone has to warm them up or something and no other than IEE can do it.
    Eh, i'd waste too much of my precious time doing this. Why would I want to warm up an Iceberg anyway?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissholeMan View Post
    Eh, i'd waste too much of my precious time doing this. Why would I want to warm up an Iceberg anyway?
    Mobilizing Te ignoring Ni.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    Mobilizing Te ignoring Ni.
    Yup. This is why I don't dualize. It's hard for me to feel interest towards people who push me away, it's also called "not being retarded".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    Fe plor: hard to begin with
    Fi polr: hard when looking for a deeper emotional connection
    Ti dom and Ni dom : hard to understand
    The "lolnope" squad. I wish people were more simple. Tbh. Fe polrs make me feel like i'm talking to a wall, and i'm not crazy enough to want to do that, i'd look... crazy, you know?
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    ILI’s seem easier to get to know to me than SLI’s. Maybe in my case it’s IR, or something theory (someone good at this Ti thing can answer this maybe lol)
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    Quote Originally Posted by aster View Post
    ILI’s seem easier to get to know to me than SLI’s. Maybe in my case it’s IR, or something theory (someone good at this Ti thing can answer this maybe lol)
    Well. It's not that hard. You and them are Ni leads.
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    Barring overriding personal issues, NTs seem to be the most reluctant to reveal themselves totally even though some can quite chatty. On first meeting, IEIs tend to be the most opaque although it may not appear that way to most; they warm up faster than NTs though.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by PissholeMan View Post
    Well. It's not that hard. You and them are Ni leads.
    lol well I did say, ‘Maybe in my case it’s ITR’, was looking for others reasons silly other special Ti reasonz. But maybe there isn’t any...
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    Quote Originally Posted by aster View Post
    lol well I did say, ‘Maybe in my case it’s ITR’, was looking for others reasons silly other special Ti reasonz. But maybe there isn’t any...
    Idfk what ITR means. Still don't get used to all the shortened words/symbols in the site.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissholeMan View Post
    Idfk what ITR means. Still don't get used to all the shortened words/symbols in the site.
    oh ok, I see.

    it is Inter Type Relations =p
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    Democratic quadras prefer open communication over aristocratic puffs. If that is getting to know or not Democratic quadra members do not really put their feelings into a chest and open it around close ones because it is all out there all the time if you know where to get sense of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aster View Post
    oh ok, I see.

    it is Inter Type Relations =p
    Oh, so, complex!!!!!

    Jk lmao but idk how i didn't see it before
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    Democratic quadras prefer open communication over aristocratic puffs. If that is getting to know or not Democratic quadra members do not really put their feelings into a chest and open it around close ones because it is all out there all the time if you know where to get sense of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    Fe plor: hard to begin with
    Fi polr: hard when looking for a deeper emotional connection
    Ti dom and Ni dom : hard to understand
    So, ILI then because it's a combo of Fe polr and Ni Dom?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
    [Still new to this after 2 years of reading occasionally] Since people have complained that they can't get past my barriers and really get to know me in depth, I was wondering what this was in the context of socionics. I must admit that only now, I got to understand what they were telling me and quite frankly, I don't know how to change it. Is it low Fi? Unvalued Fe? I have no clue.
    I've had people say IRL that I'm difficult to get to know and that I push people away.. I've never felt like I pushed people away, though I'm probably not the most difficult person to get to know either. I think Si doms might not know what to say about themselves because of the lack of Ni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PissholeMan View Post
    Oh, so, complex!!!!!

    Jk lmao but idk how i didn't see it before
    socionics nerd language

    the fact that you couldn’t automatically translate it means there might still be hope for you
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissholeMan View Post
    U are a flower bot boy
    Yeah, I think so too.. Mario.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    Yeah, I think so too.. Mario.
    It's a me, Aario
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    So, ILI then because it's a combo of Fe polr and Ni Dom?
    Ni dom maybe hard to understand but I think they have no problem to show some of their "easy to understand - easy to get along with" sides to others (mostly INFp), or talk much about something they feel interest, give advice to others. Hard to understand does'nt mean hard to get along with. So people ok with their limit version of "understand" to the INxp.

    ISTp is more of a thick wall, but I think they just shy : ))
    Last edited by Moharu; 12-28-2020 at 01:34 AM.

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    I’d still say that, socionics-wise, this is mostly an intertype relation thing.

    But I mean, getting to know someone involves cracking the shell around their idea of self and peering inside, right? So again, socionics-wise, I think people would mostly put stock into their base function and creative function as their sense of identity. So I don’t see why Fe PoLR would principally make someone harder to get to know as some people seem to suggest. As far as social gregariousness/withdrawnness goes, I think we would be better off leaving that to something like Big 5, right?

    So I emphasize my stance on this being an IR thing, but to really squeeze an answer out I would hesitantly say
    IEI

    Because:
    • Despite what I said about Big 5, it is certainly true that introverts are generally more socially reserved all-round
    • Ni is regarded as a more (the most I think) nebulous function and thus is more difficult to effectively grasp
    • And I considered Reinin dichotomies yielding/obstinate and asking/declaring to be most pertinent to this.
    I think yielding and asking would be more deflective and IEI has both.

    Hopefully I am not showing too much weak Ti/Te skin... I try to be a modest boy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aster View Post
    ILI’s seem easier to get to know to me than SLI’s. Maybe in my case it’s IR, or something theory (someone good at this Ti thing can answer this maybe lol)
    I do think SLI is the hardest to get to know. ILIs are more verbal and introspective due to strong intuition. SLIs often seem like they don't even know themselves.

    Te leading types can be easy to get to know superficially, but it may be difficult to get to truly know them at a deeper level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I do think SLI is the hardest to get to know. ILIs are more verbal and introspective due to strong intuition. SLIs often seem like they don't even know themselves.

    Te leading types can be easy to get to know superficially, but it may be difficult to get to truly know them at a deeper level.
    You are definitely more experienced with socionics than I am so I am curious why we disagree. What would be mistaken about my above posts?

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    Mostly Alphas and Deltas because they’re annoying and boring, respectively. Alpha NTs are overly pedantic and want to complicate matters when it’s actually simple. Alpha SFs are just air-headed and don’t ever learn from their fuckups (rejection of Te).

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    type without a videointerview
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliMeat View Post
    You are definitely more experienced with socionics than I am so I am curious why we disagree. What would be mistaken about my above posts?
    Your initial comment was that it doesn't seem necessarily related to socionics - this is mistaken simply because, it is related to socionics, and to issues with ethics (primarily Fe but also Fi) in general.

    Fe is about self-expression and communication of feelings, thoughts, and desires, so it is naturally linked to getting to know a person. Fi has to do with more purely "inner" qualities.

    Is it easier to get to know people who have a certain relationship with you? Sure, but that wasn't the question, not to mention that it's less significant overall. A Delta will still probably find it relatively easy to get to know an EIE compared to an SLI, even if the relationship is overall less pleasant. I find SLEs and SEEs pretty easy to get to know compared to SLIs, even though the relationship is more difficult.

    Social introversion is definitely correlated with socionic introversion, so you got that right. But IEIs are also much more approachable than Fe-4 types.

    If you want to know what I think about Reinin dichotomies you can read here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Your initial comment was that it doesn't seem necessarily related to socionics - this is mistaken simply because, it is related to socionics, and to issues with ethics (primarily Fe but also Fi) in general.

    Fe is about self-expression and communication of feelings, thoughts, and desires, so it is naturally linked to getting to know a person. Fi has to do with more purely "inner" qualities.

    Is it easier to get to know people who have a certain relationship with you? Sure, but that wasn't the question, not to mention that it's less significant overall. A Delta will still probably find it relatively easy to get to know an EIE compared to an SLI, even if the relationship is overall less pleasant. I find SLEs and SEEs pretty easy to get to know compared to SLIs, even though the relationship is more difficult.

    Social introversion is definitely correlated with socionic introversion, so you got that right. But IEIs are also much more approachable than Fe-4 types.

    If you want to know what I think about Reinin dichotomies you can read here.
    Hmm, well that is interesting. I didn’t realize Reinin dichotomies were seen in such a way.

    So I do suppose this is more of a question about approachability, correct? In that case, Fe PoLR would definitely complicate getting to know someone, at least, considering the initiation phase.

    But what about the continual process of getting to know somebody following the approach?
    I still don’t think Fe PoLR is much of a hindrance here. Getting to know an Fe PoLR person would involve getting to know the Fe PoLR aspects about them and their SLI/ILI-ness, right? Like, an SLI could tell me about themselves for hours and I would get to know them without Fe PoLR because they don’t really identify with Fe-related things in the first place. Fe is just not part of the “them” that I am getting to know. Sure, they probably wouldn’t be very “expressive”, but they could still be very “telling” about themselves. So I say this is more IR related because it’s about getting to know someone on their terms instead of just your own. I don’t expect to get to know SLIs by focusing on how awesomely radiant their Fe is, because it isn’t.

    You say:

    Fe is about self-expression and communication of feelings, thoughts, and desires, so it is naturally linked to getting to know a person. Fi has to do with more purely "inner" qualities.

    But is our identity to be found in those ideas? In this way, I think our actions speak for ourselves. I identify SLI/ILI by their reticence as well as whatever may hide behind it. If I consider getting to know somebody the same thing as digging through their Fe box, then of course Fe PoLR would be hard to know! But that would be my fault, not their fault! This disagreement seems to be one of what we consider “getting to know” and “someone” really is. However, I see myself as the outlier here, so I concede.

    But if this is indeed primarily about approachability, then sure, Fe PoLR takes the cake.
    IDK, what do people who don’t care much about Fe think about how much it affects approachability to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliMeat View Post
    Hmm, well that is interesting. I didn’t realize Reinin dichotomies were seen in such a way.

    So I do suppose this is more of a question about approachability, correct? In that case, Fe PoLR would definitely complicate getting to know someone, at least, considering the initiation phase.

    But what about the continual process of getting to know somebody following the approach?
    I still don’t think Fe PoLR is much of a hindrance here. Getting to know an Fe PoLR person would involve getting to know the Fe PoLR aspects about them and their SLI/ILI-ness, right? Like, an SLI could tell me about themselves for hours and I would get to know them without Fe PoLR because they don’t really identify with Fe-related things in the first place. Fe is just not part of the “them” that I am getting to know. Sure, they probably wouldn’t be very “expressive”, but they could still be very “telling” about themselves. So I say this is more IR related because it’s about getting to know someone on their terms instead of just your own. I don’t expect to get to know SLIs by focusing on how awesomely radiant their Fe is, because it isn’t.
    I'm not sure we're understanding each other here...

    SLIs in particular are not prone to expressing their inner hopes, desires, motivations, opinions, etc. You can essentially think of this as a trait most exemplified by EIEs, who are prone to expressing these things quite a lot and in an attention-grabbing manner. That's Fe. An SLI is not likely to talk about themselves (or anything really) at any length.

    You say:

    Fe is about self-expression and communication of feelings, thoughts, and desires, so it is naturally linked to getting to know a person. Fi has to do with more purely "inner" qualities.

    But is our identity to be found in those ideas? In this way, I think our actions speak for ourselves. I identify SLI/ILI by their reticence as well as whatever may hide behind it. If I consider getting to know somebody the same thing as digging through their Fe box, then of course Fe PoLR would be hard to know! But that would be my fault, not their fault! This disagreement seems to be one of what we consider “getting to know” and “someone” really is. However, I see myself as the outlier here, so I concede.

    But if this is indeed primarily about approachability, then sure, Fe PoLR takes the cake.
    IDK, what do people who don’t care much about Fe think about how much it affects approachability to you?
    It is true, an SLI (and other Fi valuers to different extents) are more likely to be nonverbally expressive and let their actions speak for themselves.

    But if someone never explains themselves to you, and moreover acts in a way that is unobtrusive and more responsive to the situation at hand than in a uniquely personal manner, then it is going to be hard to discern what makes them them. So no, I don't think actions are really enough. People often describe their own motivations in ways I never would have guessed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    Democratic quadras prefer open communication over aristocratic puffs. If that is getting to know or not Democratic quadra members do not really put their feelings into a chest and open it around close ones because it is all out there all the time if you know where to get sense of it.
    Yes "democratic" quadras can be shockingly obvious in their emotional attachments from an "aristocratic" point of view. On the other hand, aristocratic quadra members are always very open about where their practical interests lie. There are no games of shadows or interest/advocacy groups. With democratic quadra members there is this undertone of "I do what I want, I'm not inclined to compromise to do what benefits everyone and I don't show my cards unless I decide we are on the same side" which makes me wonder if I can trust their intentions. All these "democratic antics" make it difficult to get to know them too.

    PS: Sometimes the behaviour of democratic quadra members reminds me of the evils which are characteristic of modern democracy. Splinter groups, nepotism, lobbies, hidden interests, hate groups, political factionalism(democrats and republicans are indistinguishable honestly), forced cultural assimilation, fraud, undemocratic monopolies based on mediatic power(Ne+Fe, alpha) or economic power(Se+Te, gamma).
    I rarely feel alone. I rarely talk to anyone, yet in my head i have the most amazing, the most fantastic discussions with the people in my life. In real life, what most people talk about is several orders of magnitude lesser than their inner experiences. Most people never reveal the singularity of their subjective experience.
    Maybe I should learn to explore other people's consciousness. Maybe I should aim for a real space between me and others. Instead of cultivating monologues and fantasies. It's hard, but the alternative to this seems to be madness. ~ lkdhf qkb

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Yes "democratic" quadras can be shockingly obvious in their emotional attachments from an "aristocratic" point of view. On the other hand, aristocratic quadra members are always very open about where their practical interests lie. There are no games of shadows or interest/advocacy groups. With democratic quadra members there is this undertone of "I do what I want, I'm not inclined to compromise to do what benefits everyone and I don't show my cards unless I decide we are on the same side" which makes me wonder if I can trust their intentions. All these "democratic antics" make it difficult to get to know them too.

    PS: Sometimes the behaviour of democratic quadra members reminds me of the evils which are characteristic of modern democracy. Splinter groups, nepotism, lobbies, hidden interests, hate groups, political factionalism(democrats and republicans are indistinguishable honestly), forced cultural assimilation, fraud, undemocratic monopolies based on mediatic power(Ne+Fe, alpha) or economic power(Se+Te, gamma).
    Are you sure you are not mixing democatic quadras with central quadras?

    But yes I will not show my cards unless I know what others are after. In case I'm unsure I will block their inquires with obfuscation or test their waters with lies in order to form a picture from different angles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Yes "democratic" quadras can be shockingly obvious in their emotional attachments from an "aristocratic" point of view. On the other hand, aristocratic quadra members are always very open about where their practical interests lie. There are no games of shadows or interest/advocacy groups. With democratic quadra members there is this undertone of "I do what I want, I'm not inclined to compromise to do what benefits everyone and I don't show my cards unless I decide we are on the same side" which makes me wonder if I can trust their intentions. All these "democratic antics" make it difficult to get to know them too.

    PS: Sometimes the behaviour of democratic quadra members reminds me of the evils which are characteristic of modern democracy. Splinter groups, nepotism, lobbies, hidden interests, hate groups, political factionalism(democrats and republicans are indistinguishable honestly), forced cultural assimilation, fraud, undemocratic monopolies based on mediatic power(Ne+Fe, alpha) or economic power(Se+Te, gamma).
    Interesting. Often aristocratic quadras (mainly the betas) get the blame for dictatorships, but your description also paints the potentially negative side of democratic quadras on groups and society, from an aristocratic quadra perspective.
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