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Thread: Asperger or 1DFe?

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    Default Asperger or 1DFe?

    I wonder how could we tell 1DFe or Fe Polr from Asperger?

    I think both could be easily consed by each other or overlap:
    The takeaway
    Adults with Asperger’s syndrome may experience symptoms such as:

    awkward social interactions

    difficulty talking with others

    an inability to interpret nonverbal behaviors in others

    You may also practice repetitive behaviors and develop a hyperfocus on routines and rules.

    However, adults with AS often have strong intellectual abilities and vocabulary skills. You pay great attention to detail and can focus for extended periods of time.

    While most individuals with Asperger’s syndrome or an autism spectrum disorder will be diagnosed as children, some adults will not find a solution to their symptoms until adulthood.

    With a diagnosis of Asperger’s syndrome, you can find therapies and treatments to help you cope with any challenges you face and live a healthy, productive life that’s fulfilling and happy.
    Last edited by Akira; 12-24-2020 at 12:23 PM.

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    People with 1DFe- appreciate help in this but a person with aspergers may not necessarily respond in the same way

    With Fe PoLr- Fe makes them uncomfortable but a person with aspergers may not necessarily respond uncomfortably

    Also, one could look at the DSM criteria:

    The DSM-IV criteria for Asperger’s specified that the individual must have “severe and sustained impairment in social interaction, and the development of restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests and activities that must cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning.
    But yeah, there's obviously a lot of overlap.

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    1D Fe (whether PoLR or suggestive) is someone who doesn’t have the ability to carry the atmospheric mood. It’s most evident when they’re in charge of a social event or group, it comes off as being emotionally stale. As for people who have personality disorders, it doesn’t effect cognition, although their cognitive type could draw more attention to the disorder(s).

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    There are standard methods to assign disorders. When someone fits - it exists.
    Normal people with weak nonvalued Fe will not fit.

    Jung types may be used to heal and have a chance to noticably arise diagnostic cases of neurotic level disorders only.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    I think autism is not inherently social condition as it is made to be. It is more in terms of being highly attuned to input. Just check out literature. They like spinning wheels and such. If you are extremely like that you'll be social outcast as well. It is more like highly correlated. Like there is this Daniel Tammet who is autistic but not socially challenged.
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    Dimwenshionality
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    ~Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    Dimwenshionality
    The reason I'm saying this.

    Dimensionality is pretty useless and gives an inaccurate picture of actual people.

    POLR looks very different from suggestive. Even though both SLIs and LSI for example have "1D" Fe, LSIs have an easy time learning Fe related things, whereas it's difficult for SLI. Furthermore, LSI wants to learn this stuff, and SLI wants to minimize if not avoid it altogether. So their Fe ends up looking pretty different.

    That being said, Aspergers is probably not type related. And introverted logicians, including SLIs and ILIs, are not likely to be mistaken for having it unless they actually do have it.

    There are alot of stereotypes going around which aeren't doing anyone any good and only confusing people with their typings (both of others and themselves).
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    Wankle Ave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Wankle Ave
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    ~Nietzsche

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    As in anything there exists trends. If you are introverted have problems and seem like less expressive there may be huge crowd of people ready to stamp you with autism diagnosis.

    This must be taken into account.


    I think you just should pay attention how they react to loud sounds, to a note that is bit off in a song or what if their daily plan changes.
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    I wasn’t officially diagnosed, but when I was 16 a therapist suggested I had Asperger’s or some other sort of autism to my family. So maybe the overlap is complete in my case シ

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I wasn’t officially diagnosed, but when I was 16 a therapist suggested I had Asperger’s or some other sort of autism to my family. So maybe the overlap is complete in my case シ
    Its probable I'd be diagnosed as mild Aspergers too because tests points in that direction. My hub agrees too. Thought I don't do any of this: also practice repetitive behaviors and develop a hyperfocus on routines and rules.

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    I might have asperger, too. a lot of my online friends (who sare mostly INxx) also self-diagnosed themselves with asperger or autism. I think that gulenko's theory that Ni might play a role could be correct.

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    Can you give examples how you guys can attentively fixate on things (attention is not concentration)? I find it interesting style of being a hooman
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    I can't say I'm very familiar with autism spectrum issues but I still have a bit of a soft spot cuz there's a little overlap w my symptoms, moreso earlier in my recovery. Does aspergers get the savant stuff?

    I took an online test recently (science!) and it was right on the border

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    I test as an Aspie, but also display little similarity with Aspies, all the while possessing AvPD/Social Anxiety, & all the while having no traits reminiscent of 1D Fe. I imagine people see me as cold and uninterested and "out there", though internally I am very moody and sensitive and confused nearly 2/3rd's of the time. The difference is whether you are aware or not of your ineptness, the prevalence of non-social Asperger's traits such as being hyper focused on one hobby and having strange physical behaviours, and whether or not you care to improve your social standing with others. Aspies often have very unique markers in their voice and gestures which makes it quite difficult to just label any socially incompetent person as an Aspie.. it's like sure you may be a bit rude and isolated, but you don't do "the aspie" thing or exemplify the "aspie personality" if you will. Perhaps though there are different types of Aspies and I am one of them.. just a very self-aware one. But I am doubtful of a lot of Autism/Aspie diagnoses regardless.

    For me, if I fuck up socially, it's either an accident out of fear or an intentional sabotaging of my social standing- it is not beyond my awareness but it's not something I care to improve much on either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dead account View Post
    I might have asperger, too. a lot of my online friends (who sare mostly INxx) also self-diagnosed themselves with asperger or autism. I think that gulenko's theory that Ni might play a role could be correct.

    Take this as an observation and do with it as you want, as I’m neither going to produce examples nor go any further into it, but from the very limited amount of times we exchanged words, it did feel like something was present that has little to do with Creative subtype, what you use to explain away miscommunication. A curious situation where the expressed kinda rhymes with holographicals on the surface but spare it a moment and you see failure to grasp commonality of IEs in people.
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    Fe polr doesn't always have to do with being socially inept. It can refer to having internal feelings that are vulnerable to external interference.

    We don't like to have our feelings exposed. Fe types try to create emotional openness. For an Fe polr that's kind of like being drawn and quartered medieval style.

    For the Fe polr, the volume of Fe cuts through their awareness of their own feelings.

    Fe types project emotional energy. Fi is receptive and easily impinged on by the force of Fe.

    Think of it like Se polrs with Se.

    For the record: I'm not autistic.
    Last edited by Aramas; 12-24-2020 at 08:13 PM.

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    Well, supposedly they don't consider ASSBURGERS a thing anymore. There is just Autism Spectrum now and ASSBURGERS was generally thought as a social development delay and people couldn't agree on its traits specifically. So it begs the question how much stock you want to put into the idea then.

    But I think if someone struggles with eye contact, such as finding it naturally overwhelming (and not a symptom of an anxiety/psychiatric problem), then that's ASSBURGERS.

    ASSBURGERS
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    I am living proof that Asperger's (now ASD) is not correlated with socionics Fe, or just socionics in general.

    I am IEI and I must say that not understanding the difference between ASD and socionics made getting my type correct very difficult. I initially figured I could just look to my social life to figure out how my Fe is, but I was mistaken. ASD gives me a disparate take on sociality that can not be measured by socionics. In a typical social environment I usually appear to be Fe polr or suggestive if one does not consider the fact that I am autistic. However, around other autistics or people with whom I have developed good social resonance, I am clearly NOT Fe polr or suggestive. I guess you could say my Fe tendencies are "different" rather than good or bad.

    So to answer your question, "Asperger or 1DFE?":
    I would recommend seeing how someone relates to and interacts with neurotypical people (NT) and Aspies. There is still likely to be social disparity between NT people and Aspies despite the Fe of either. Or put simply, just learn about both ASD and socionics. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Well, supposedly they don't consider ASSBURGERS a thing anymore. There is just Autism Spectrum now and ASSBURGERS was generally thought as a social development delay and people couldn't agree on its traits specifically. So it begs the question how much stock you want to put into the idea then.

    But I think if someone struggles with eye contact, such as finding it naturally overwhelming (and not a symptom of an anxiety/psychiatric problem), then that's ASSBURGERS.

    ASSBURGERS
    Danks, I must have assburgers because my visual deficit in direct observation regarding sight makes it very hard to observe minute details such as eyes. I'm more confident of observing people based on their whole existence. Although funny thing is that I apparently make eye contact somehow quite easily without realizing that I watch something in other's frame of mind. Maybe I can position myself in right way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    I wonder how could we tell 1DFe or Fe Polr from Asperger?

    I think both could be easily consed by each other or overlap:
    I don't have Asperger syndrome, reading (body language and intention) and understanding other people is fairly easy tbh. TRUSTING other people is very difficult tho.

    I wouldn't say I'm awkward in social interactions, I can be social and engaging for a limited time with new ppl or ppl I don't trust / like. One to one or in a more intimate setting with friends this becomes even more easy and I don't get drained of social energy as long as there are things to talk about and ppl are willing to do the back and forth interaction.

    With that said I'm not the most outgoing or social of people and I'm not good at being the life of the party or entertaining people or maintaining the emotional atmosphere, much less acting or inspiring. In new situations I have mild to moderate social anxiety and deeply care about how other people perceive me, which makes it worse.

    Routine is boring but comfortable tbh and rules are annoying unless they make logical sense. I just do what I like or seems fun/interesting. IF I need to do chores I can begrudgingly force myself to do those, even if it takes a long time and is tedious.

    finding ppl I can trust and develop a relationship with is extremely difficult tho, so good relationships are very few. I'm very choosy about ppl and easily cut other people off if they fail in some major way by who they are as people. (very high standards). Generally I'm not inclined to go out of my way and be social. Typical introvert, but I can be social, charming even if I need to be and I DO LEARN things related to this, trying to improve my presentation, body language and so on.

    t. LSI-H - 1DFe

    I'm kinda like Adam Driver tbh.. its like him and I were cut from the same tree or something.

    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 12-26-2020 at 11:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I don't have Asperger syndrome, reading (body language and intention) and understanding other people is fairly easy tbh. TRUSTING other people is very difficult tho.

    I wouldn't say I'm awkward in social interactions, I can be social and engaging for a limited time with new ppl or ppl I don't trust / like. One to one or in a more intimate setting with friends this becomes even more easy and I don't get drained of social energy as long as there are things to talk about and ppl are willing to do the back and forth interaction.

    With that said I'm not the most outgoing or social of people and I'm not good at being the life of the party or entertaining people or maintaining the emotional atmosphere, much less acting or inspiring. In new situations I have mild to moderate social anxiety and deeply care about how other people perceive me, which makes it worse.

    Routine is boring but comfortable tbh and rules are annoying unless they make logical sense. I just do what I like or seems fun/interesting. IF I need to do chores I can begrudgingly force myself to do those, even if it takes a long time and is tedious.

    finding ppl I can trust and develop a relationship with is extremely difficult tho, so good relationships are very few. I'm very choosy about ppl and easily cut other people off if they fail in some major way by who they are as people. (very high standards). Generally I'm not inclined to go out of my way and be social. Typical introvert, but I can be social, charming even if I need to be and I DO LEARN things related to this, trying to improve my presentation, body language and so on.

    t. LSI-H - 1DFe

    I'm kinda like Adam Driver tbh.. its like him and I were cut from the same tree or something.

    interesting, I'm very similar. I have very high standards irl. I can get along with many people, but they will be nothing more than acquaintances to me if I notice too many differences.I don't care how other people perceive me, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliMeat View Post
    I am living proof that Asperger's (now ASD) is not correlated with socionics Fe, or just socionics in general.

    I am IEI and I must say that not understanding the difference between ASD and socionics made getting my type correct very difficult. I initially figured I could just look to my social life to figure out how my Fe is, but I was mistaken. ASD gives me a disparate take on sociality that can not be measured by socionics. In a typical social environment I usually appear to be Fe polr or suggestive if one does not consider the fact that I am autistic. However, around other autistics or people with whom I have developed good social resonance, I am clearly NOT Fe polr or suggestive. I guess you could say my Fe tendencies are "different" rather than good or bad.

    So to answer your question, "Asperger or 1DFE?":
    I would recommend seeing how someone relates to and interacts with neurotypical people (NT) and Aspies. There is still likely to be social disparity between NT people and Aspies despite the Fe of either. Or put simply, just learn about both ASD and socionics. lol
    I would actually like to elucidate what I have written here to include my own experience.

    The verbal comprehension of Aspies is is usually quite lacking depending on where they rest on the spectrum. This consequently results in us preferring straightforward, and often tactless (or "logical" as some may erroneously put it), methods of communication. I will typically avoid talking in social situations because it is difficult and strenuous trying to check and reformat my interaction style so as not to be obnoxious or offensive. Even my Fe approach to things can come across as blunt or crude. However, with other Aspies I do not have to worry about being grating because we are on the same page. Mostly.

    Taking dimensionality into account, I am not 1D Fe. This reality took a while to come around to. I am not Fe suggestive because I do not require "an emotional break" from some rigid, humdrum, operative modality. In fact, I love to open such people up if I can. Now, Fe PoLR is a bit trickier. I definitely make an initial impression of having painful Fe, but only because of how life has influenced me to act. My *ahem* idiosyncratic/autistic approach to Fe-like activities in the past has led to painful backlash which made a lasting impression that I would do best to shut down instead of get involved. For me, it's an impression like fossilized shit embedded in dried cement, and I think the experience of other autistics could be similar.

    Somebody well-versed in socionics could probably tell I don't have weak Fe, but I am not sure. I am viscerally attuned to my environment and my perception of it shifts according to my mood, quite literally actually. I remember a time when I was entrenched in melancholy that the world actually appeared deathly and skeletal to me. When happy, the world seems to personify a smile. By implication, I have weak Te. This is evident in the fact that I don't listen to people unless I can readily agree with something they say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliMeat View Post
    This consequently results in us preferring straightforward, and often tactless (or "logical" as some may erroneously put it), methods of communication. I will typically avoid talking in social situations because it is difficult and strenuous trying to check and reformat my interaction style so as not to be obnoxious or offensive.
    Have you read Filatova's descriptions of Ni types? This actually seems to be on par with it (not referring to autism here). I, contrary to that, like to keep things pretty "disguised" with multiple plausible frames of references.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    Can you give examples how you guys can attentively fixate on things (attention is not concentration)? I find it interesting style of being a hooman
    We sort of naturally put all of our "attention eggs" in one basket. It's just how we operate, and by doing so we become absorbed in the matters to which we attend at depth. Yeah, that's it, we fixate on things at extreme depth and sacrifice attentive breadth in so doing. That is why loud sounds and bright lights are so damn jarring to me, they rip me from my fixation and cause my attention to abruptly fluctuate to extremes. Distracting sounds seem to tear through the sound barrier, and bright lights suck me in and magnify to the intensity of the Sun. As with eye contact, I can resolve to either look someone in the eyes or pay attention to what they are doing/saying, and there is hardly any room to do both. We often struggle with transitions and breaking routines because we need to allot our attentive energy in advance for things to go smoothly. I have learned to predict when I would do best to detach from my activities so I can better go with the flow of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    Have you read Filatova's descriptions of Ni types? This actually seems to be on par with it (not referring to autism here). I, contrary to that, like to keep things pretty "disguised" with multiple plausible frames of references.
    From what I understand about Ni is that it requires reformatting for communication because it has such an idiosyncratic interpretation of acquired information. Whereas, in the case of autistics, we would rather tell someone they do indeed look fat in that dress because we think it is true and see no problem with it.
    EDIT: I have insulted people in the past in this fashion thinking it would help the emotional atmosphere. It isn't a "you look fat in that dress and should just accept that" kind of thing, it is like I thought saying that was just factual and thus acceptable and would elevate the emotional atmosphere by dispelling tumultuous doubt. I have long since wizened up and realized people don't usually share that sentiment.

    Have I understood correctly?
    Last edited by DeliMeat; 12-26-2020 at 09:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliMeat View Post
    From what I understand about Ni is that it requires reformatting for communication because it has such an idiosyncratic interpretation of acquired information. Whereas, in the case of autistics, we would rather tell someone they do indeed look fat in that dress because we think it is true and see no problem with it.
    EDIT: I have insulted people in the past in this fashion thinking it would help the emotional atmosphere. It isn't a "you look fat in that dress and should just accept that" kind of thing, it is like I thought saying that was just factual and thus acceptable and would elevate the emotional atmosphere by dispelling tumultuous doubt. I have long since wizened up and realized people don't usually share that sentiment.

    Have I understood correctly?
    Maybe. I don't know exact thoughts that Filatova had. It is funny tough as I have intentionally insulted people when I have had enough which makes people look me like I'm totally off (which probably tells that I do not really do it unintentionally). OTOH my inattentiveness to everything has hurt people in other way like I literally have not given a flying * about what is going on (I happen to have ADD meds...).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    Maybe. I don't know exact thoughts that Filatova had. It is funny tough as I have intentionally insulted people when I have had enough which makes people look me like I'm totally off (which probably tells that I do not really do it unintentionally). OTOH my inattentiveness to everything has hurt people in other way like I literally have not given a flying * about what is going on (I happen to have ADD meds...).
    Sounds like a prototypical ILE with an attention disorder to me.

    Autism is like social dyslexia in a sense. I rely on patterns of consequences of social behavior because it does not come naturally to me how I should act. Basic social stuff is something autistics learn, and 1D Fe or similar types know what they are getting into. High intelligence and/or an adjusted approach to raising an autistic child can circumvent issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    I wonder how could we tell 1DFe or Fe Polr from Asperger?

    I think both could be easily consed by each other or overlap:
    the type who would fit it most is LII and unhealthy/undeveloped type 5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    the type who would fit it most is LII and unhealthy/undeveloped type 5
    *ILI since an LII is accepting and receptive to Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cactagon View Post
    *ILI since an LII is accepting and receptive to Fe.
    Yeah, lol but Fe matters do not explain other abnormalities. But yes going deeper into rabbit hole, from Ni/Se valuing we get: not valuing alternate interpretation + 1 extra point, focus on object + 1 extra point, attention to developments in input +1 extra point, from Jung descriptions it mentions that Ni bases have tendency towards sensory overload +1 extra point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    Yeah, lol but Fe matters do not explain other abnormalities. But yes going deeper into rabbit hole, from Ni/Se valuing we get: not valuing alternate interpretation + 1 extra point, focus on object + 1 extra point, attention to developments in input +1 extra point, from Jung descriptions it mentions that Ni bases have tendency towards sensory overload +1 extra point.
    but its not their polr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    but its not their polr.
    And your point is?
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    I don’t really think they’re connected, to be honest. I mean, I am universally typed as some 4D Fe on this site and there was a time when I self diagnosed with Asperger’s (turned out to be social anxiety, later on). I can be very awkward sometimes, but other times I’m exceedingly charming, though I’m generally aware of when I am behaving in the former or latter ways and I suppose someone on the spectrum is oblivious. I also have many moments in my life where I find it difficult talking with others, again mostly (social) anxiety (being too scared to order food by myself...etc) but if not that then it’s simply just me not having anything important to say or choosing to observe others instead of participate in conversation for awhile (yes that is often putting up a guard out of anxiety but not always... I like to talk but I am a pretty decent listener too and like to gather info on people) or I simply do not relate to whoever is around me enough for me to be interested in engaging. I also have a hard time reading people physically, i.e. even noticing let alone interpreting body language. I tend to be far more skilled in just “intuitively” knowing how people feel if they’re not announcing it. Facial expressions are usually easy but any nonverbal communication involving the body outside of that is puzzling. It doesn’t really help that when I look at people, even when I’m looking at their face, I feel more like I’m looking “through” them than “at” them and I often shorten or avoid eye contact as much as possible, too (I think if I remember correctly, both unnaturally prolonged avoidance of eye contact and fixation on eye contact are associated with the autism spectrum?). On the other hand, I’m pretty proficient at picking up someone’s tone through their spoken voice and I am good at reading tone through text as well - the latter counts as “nonverbal behavior”, yes?

    Besides all that, I do think I have strong vocabulary skills but that’s where any sort of relation to the spectrum stops with me. I mostly hate routine and rules and lack repetitive behaviors and I don’t think anyone is worse at paying attention to detail or focusing on shit for extended periods of time than me. I’m not really sure how I justified that half of the symptoms in myself many years ago when I self diagnosed... I don’t think most people who self diagnose even have it now that I’m thinking about it because I don’t think someone who really has it would be aware of it like we are. As a 4D Fe person I am highly aware of when I’m being socially awkward and even more so when other people are so there could be some minor connection there, though I have definitely seen 1D Fe types pick up on / express when other people are being awkward, I just haven’t seen them express awareness of when they are being the awkward ones... You could also argue that the symptoms that have absolutely nothing to do with Fe in my mind, like loving routine/rules/repetitive behaviors and being good at attention to detail/extended focus could be connected to 4D Ti in some way but that’s not what’s being asked here.

    I really think the only symptom mentioned that might have any real connection to 1D Fe is “an inability to interpret nonverbal behaviors in others” but that can just as easily (if not better) be explained by lower sensing functions.

    Should we be asking if every psychopath is Fi PoLR or if everyone with ADHD is Ne base, too?

    P.S. I have certainly seen people with stronger Fe on the spectrum.
    Last edited by flames; 01-05-2021 at 10:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    And your point is?
    That se polrs avoid interaction with the world and therefore also people
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    That se polrs avoid interaction with the world and therefore also people
    Hence we have two diagnosis called schizoid and avoidant personality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    Hence we have two diagnosis called schizoid and avoidant personality.
    and we have autism and aspergers which exhibit the same trait
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    and we have autism and aspergers which exhibit the same trait
    Underlying reasons are different. If you like you can treat your plausible myopia with cataract surgery. I don't quarantee good results but if you like go ahead.
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