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Thread: Si, memories, nostalgia and type.

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    Default Si, memories, nostalgia and type.

    While Si is not memory, I believe Si is tied to memory;

    Si is the subjective impression made after absorbing info via the fives senses, which can manifest as a memory.

    Nostalgia is simply having happy personal associations with the past.

    I think depending on your type and how you value Si (and since all types engage some Si), memories can manifest in different ways,

    For example:

    --Se valuing SEE may not think too much about past, preferring the present
    --Ni valuing ILI may be critical of the past, deeming it non-meaningful
    --Si PoLR ENFj may have a harder capacity to remember their past impressions

    So how do you guys think about your memories and nostalgia?

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    I reconstruct my memories from sparse data.

    In regard to memories and nostalgia, I was just cleaning out my childhood home and I ran across several items which jogged some great memories. Had I not found that old skateboard or that picture of the solar sail, I'd have forgotten about them entirely.

    I, personally, tend to forget things. Lots and lots of things. It makes me appear to be stupid to people who don't forget things, but it seems to be the way I'm built. I don't think that the past is unimportant; I just can't remember it. Instead, I breeze through the present and focus my attention almost entirely on the future.

    I take consolation in the assertion that in order to learn new things, our brains have to make space for them by forgetting old things. So, apparently, I'm learning new things all the time. At least, that's the theory.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 12-16-2020 at 03:06 PM.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    "Subjective" in Jung/Socionics has a slightly different meaning than in everyday speech. Si as "subjective" means that there is an unconscious component (from the subject) in the sensing experience, but it doesn't mean that it has something to do with "personal memory" etc.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    "Subjective" in Jung/Socionics has a slightly different meaning than in everyday speech. Si as "subjective" means that there is an unconscious component (from the subject) in the sensing experience, but it doesn't mean that it has something to do with "personal memory" etc.
    Gotcha, makes sense, it kinda "just happens" without you thinking about it too much, which is why Si-types are slaves to their Si-impressions, eh? Like not being able to let go of certain things, Is that true for you?

    unconscious component (from the subject) in the sensing experience, but it doesn't mean that it has something to do with "personal memory" etc
    But would this unconscious component eventually influence their personal memory?

    There are threads about seemingly unhealthy Si-types (ex: skinny and fat SEIs, messy SEIs) and I think it has to do with this "subjective" or what is pleasant "to them". So while one SEI may overindulge, another may not due to their own subjective impressions. Is this correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I reconstruct my memories from sparse data.

    In regard to memories and nostalgia, I was just cleaning out my childhood home and I ran across several items which jogged some great memories. Had I not found that old skateboard or that picture of the solar sail, I'd have forgotten about them entirely.

    I, personally, tend to forget things. Lots and lots of things. It makes me appear to be stupid to people who don't forget things, but it seems to be the way I'm built. I don't think that the past is unimportant; I just can't remember it. Instead, I breeze through the present and focus my attention almost entirely on the future.

    I take consolation in the assertion that in order to learn new things, our brains have to make space for them by forgetting old things. So, apparently, I'm learning new things all the time. At least, that's the theory.
    I think it could be related to the fact you are the CEO type, where you gotta think ahead on the future and fire people if needed, so your memories can't inhibit you

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    Hmm...There are threads about seemingly unhealthy Si-types (ex: skinny and fat SEIs, messy SEIs) and I think it has to do with this "subjective" or what is pleasant "to them". So while one SEI may overindulge, another may not due to their own subjective impressions. Is this correct?
    I think those things go much beyond Si as a function. People have individual ways to develop and put their base function to use in life. Some live in more "primitive" ways, others are more "cultivated". Even people of the same type.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    @Tallmo are you good at story-telling? I find that a lot of SEIs are good story tellers and can vividly recall many facts and details (in a way to convey an experience) from their past

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    While Si is not memory, I believe Si is tied to memory;

    Si is the subjective impression made after absorbing info via the fives senses, which can manifest as a memory.

    Nostalgia is simply having happy personal associations with the past.

    I think depending on your type and how you value Si (and since all types engage some Si), memories can manifest in different ways,

    For example:

    --Se valuing SEE may not think too much about past, preferring the present
    --Ni valuing ILI may be critical of the past, deeming it non-meaningful
    --Si PoLR ENFj may have a harder capacity to remember their past impressions

    So how do you guys think about your memories and nostalgia?
    I only learned recently that some people don't have sensory imagination. I asked one dude about something related to dreams and he said he didn't have any sensory based dreams. They were all abstractions..I think the dude's type was LIE. I think that sort of thing is called aphantasia.

    But I have a pretty strong sensory memory for where things are at well as a good general sense if direction. I can often find my way on the open road just by using that. It's like an internal compass that sticks in one direction that I can use to orient myself. I've missed turns and found alternate routes just by using it before. Dunno how special that is.

    As far as how I can use my sensory memory, it's fallible of course, but I pretty much have all 5 senses there. I can reconstruct a place I've visited in my imagination and draw a relative map of it. If I've walked through a place before, I can do it again in my head.

    I'm not all that nostalgic for the past in general, because my life has often been happier post-18 than before. There are a few shining moments though that stick out and I remember positively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    Si is the subjective impression made after absorbing info via the fives senses, which can manifest as a memory.
    Hey. Where did you find that?
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    Hey. Where did you find that?
    That's Jung. Psychological Types. He doesn't say memory though, just subjective impression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    I believe Si is tied to memory
    An imagination as a process, including memories about events in other time, relates to N.
    An abbility to remember concrete sensations - to S. Strong S allows to remember more of physical details.

    Si is about subjective sensations - tastes, body pain, etc. Se is about objective details as colors, forms, etc.

    > So how do you guys think about your memories and nostalgia?

    nostalgia, being emotions, relates to F
    remembering data as "what is that", of thoughts, data by words - to T

    NF types should be predisposed the most to deam about emotionally important past. Also, they may to have most distorted and muddy memories.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    While Si is not memory, I believe Si is tied to memory;

    Si is the subjective impression made after absorbing info via the fives senses, which can manifest as a memory.

    Nostalgia is simply having happy personal associations with the past.

    I think depending on your type and how you value Si (and since all types engage some Si), memories can manifest in different ways,

    For example:

    --Se valuing SEE may not think too much about past, preferring the present
    --Ni valuing ILI may be critical of the past, deeming it non-meaningful
    --Si PoLR ENFj may have a harder capacity to remember their past impressions

    So how do you guys think about your memories and nostalgia?
    Then I must be Si PoLR cause I'm a functional amnesic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    That's Jung. Psychological Types. He doesn't say memory though, just subjective impression.
    Yes, that was where I going: Jung speaks of Si a little bit as 'indifference' so the conclusion that it is about memory could be rebutted given that same indifference: no reason to rembember things. Maybe IEs are tied to how we remember rather than the action.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    Yes, that was where I going: Jung speaks of Si a little bit as 'indifference' so the conclusion that it is about memory could be rebutted given that same indifference: no reason to rembember things. Maybe IEs are tied to how we remember rather than the action.
    IEs are, according to YouTube's twfp host Eric, more about attentional differences than anything else. You'll tend to remember what you pay attention to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    That's Jung. Psychological Types. He doesn't say memory though, just subjective impression.
    Memory is from MBTI.

    Memory is one thing, but nostalgia? That's clearly in the domain of Ni.

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    According dimensionality theory, all types construct their memory through 4D Elements. Actually, 4D elements are the only part of IE stacking that work for acquiring or saving information over time (aka constructing long lasting memories).

    How each type save memories and what their memories are about?

    Fe through Emotions
    Fi through Feelings or Interpersonal Relations
    Se through Objects, objective reality or Performing Actions
    Si through Subjective or Personal Sensations (acquired through 5 senses)
    Ti through Internal Structures or Personal Logic
    Te through Practice or Practical knowledge
    Ne through Discovery or Understanding of the Essence and objective traits
    Ni through Internal World

    Also this is not just used to construct memories, in fact this never left and probably remain in the future since 4D works through time, making memories, keeping things working in present and on.
    Last edited by Akira; 12-16-2020 at 10:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    @Tallmo are you good at story-telling? I find that a lot of SEIs are good story tellers and can vividly recall many facts and details (in a way to convey an experience) from their past
    Not really. My memories are too vague. But yes, people remember what they focus on, so I am sure type relates to type of memories. That's only natural. In my experience ESI can have a very good memory for details, like the color of a toothbrush. I don't even remember the color of my current toothbrush.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Not really. My memories are too vague. But yes, people remember what they focus on, so I am sure type relates to type of memories. That's only natural. In my experience ESI can have a very good memory for details, like the color of a toothbrush. I don't even remember the color of my current toothbrush.
    I see, so then as an Si-user, what do you focus on and how do your memories manifest, then?

    I guess, when I say "memory" I'm more referring to things like- "What does this remind me of?" "What intangible qualities does this thing bring to mind?" "What does the object/place/sight/sound mean to me?" That's the type of memory I'm referring to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    Yes, that was where I going: Jung speaks of Si a little bit as 'indifference' so the conclusion that it is about memory could be rebutted given that same indifference: no reason to rembember things. Maybe IEs are tied to how we remember rather than the action.
    Ya ur probably right

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    According dimensionality theory, all types construct their memory through 4D Elements. Actually, 4D elements are the only part of IE stacking that work for acquiring or saving information over time (aka constructing long lasting memories).

    How each type save memories and in what their memories are about?

    Fe through Emotions
    Fi through Feelings or Interpersonal Relations
    Se through Objects or Performing Actions
    Si through Subjective or Personal Sensations (acquired through 5 senses)
    Ti through Internal Structures or Personal Logic
    Te through Practice or Practical knowledge
    Ne through Discovery or Understanding of the Essence and objective traits
    Ni through Internal World

    Also this is not just used to construct memories, in fact this never left and probably remain in the future since 4D works through time, making memories, keeping things working in present and on.
    I can easily follow self generated flow charts. It is a blessing and a curse. A structure is there but it is usually spread around in mind maneuverable ways - like you can leave a hook that refers to something but you need the other part in order to decrypt it. Makes maintenance hard.
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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    I see, so then as an Si-user, what do you focus on and how do your memories manifest, then?

    I guess, when I say "memory" I'm more referring to things like- "What does this remind me of?" "What intangible qualities does this thing bring to mind?" "What does the object/place/sight/sound mean to me?" That's the type of memory I'm referring to.
    I still don't really understand why you try to link Si and memory, since Si has nothing to do with memory. But if a person focuses on something he might remember it. That's true for anything. I might remember my Si sensations, or often I don't.

    However, Si is about experiencing a certain "quality" or "soul" in physical objects. Not deep and abstract as Ni experiences it, but still very genuine. So it definitely makes an impression on the person. Maybe that has something to do with what you are saying.

    Si and memory is MBTI and they had of course read Jung but misunderstood him on Si. Because of that the internet is now full of worthless "Si" descriptions.

    All introverted functions seem to be connected to primordial images. To me it's obvious with regard to Si and Ni, but I still don't understand Fi and Ti. There's a lot to learn.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I still don't really understand why you try to link Si and memory, since Si has nothing to do with memory.
    Well, my line of reasoning :

    1. We all experience life through the five senses
    2. Our five senses helps us remember.
    3. Si is also tied to the five senses.
    4. Therefore, it may be reasonable to say Si is related/tied to memory

    I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm simply trying to differentiate X from Y and I'm also trying to see if any concepts are inter-relatable. And I'm especially interested in your answer because you are Si-ego so your experience is especially interesting to hear.

    However, Si is about experiencing a certain "quality" or "soul" in physical objects. Not deep and abstract as Ni experiences it, but still very genuine. So it definitely makes an impression on the person. Maybe that has something to do with what you are saying.
    Yes exactly. I feel like the impressions maybe somewhat related to memory. And thank you, never thought of Si as "quality" and "soul"

    Si and memory is MBTI and they had of course read Jung but misunderstood him on Si. Because of that the internet is now full of worthless "Si" descriptions.
    Ya I understand where you're comin from...

    However, I do feel like some of their definitions may have some food for thought,

    like I'm sure a lot of people can relate to some of these examples:

    --"The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn't taste the same or is saltier than it usually is"

    --"Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else"

    --"Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself."
    Noticing the current food not tasting the same as usual, noticing someone who looks like someone else we know, having specific feelings come up when thinking about an image - these impressions/examples are somewhat related to memory, are they not?

    And just so we're on the same page, I'm not trying to say Si-egos have this godly ability to recall anything from the past (that would be sweet though )
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 12-18-2020 at 02:46 AM.

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    Some interesting info:

    Rather, as a perceiving function, Si unconsciously sweeps up sensory information from the external world and mashes them together into an impression. This means that Si users cannot specify physical features of sensory data as Se users can, but produce concentrations of sensory data that are clear and confused.
    Due to the process of convergence, impressions often escape articulation and rational thought. Similar to the premonitions of introverted intuition (Ni), Si users are unaware of the process by which impressions are generated. Hence, impressions form their default mode of contact with the external world.

    This is why Si is always associated with memory. However, since memory is a general term that describes a mental faculty concerning remembrance, the equation of Si=memory is not true. It is also not true that impressions= memory; a mental faculty cannot be equivalent to a compression of sensory data. The most we can say is that because impressions are the inexpressible, non-rational agglomerations of sensory data, they form the unquantifiable part of memory.

    When a Si user tries to remember a past event, they do not remember the specific details of the event (Se). They may remember the connections between events (Ne), but the impression that the event makes on the Si user is the one that comes to consciousness first. In turn, the Si user remembers what the event made him/her feel, but not what made him/her feel that way.
    Another:

    One of the major misconceptions of the Introverted Sensation function is that many people often confuse it as sort of a “memory” function. “An Si user is someone who uses strong powerful memory,” is the common belief of the community, but this is not necessarily the case. While the Si function does operate in a similiar manner to memory, it’s not the same kind of memory people often associate. It’s a “sensational” memory, meaning that it is memory that is not rational or identifiable. It is a memory one “feels” out as opposed to the standard definition of memory in that we can easily recollect and explain them.
    Important implications:

    1. Impressions can be thought of as the compression of sensory data
    2. Memory is a general term that describes a mental faculty concerning remembrance
    3. Impressions ≠ memory
    4. Because impressions are the inexpressible, non-rational agglomerations of sensory data, they form the unquantifiable part of memory
    5. The Si user remembers what the event made him/her feel, but not what made him/her feel that way.

    https://medium.com/@aphidruin/introv...i-3804d77eeda8
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 12-18-2020 at 03:50 AM.

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    Totally wrong. Every function has access to memory Si is not special.

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