PornHub: Alleged Sex Trafficking and Rape Videos

[xerx]

While we're at it, according to a German study, sex trafficking has increased in countries with legal prostitution, like Germany and Switzerland. It has decreased in Sweden and Denmark, both of which have criminalized prostitution.

https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/20...n-trafficking/

Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legalized prostitution report a greater incidence of human trafficking inflows.

^ This is a direct rebuttal to the argument that legalizing prostitution incentivizes people to seek out the legal option.


.........and here's the trade-off:

While trafficking inflows may be lower where prostitution is criminalized, there may be severe repercussions for those working in the industry. For example, criminalizing prostitution penalizes sex workers rather than the people who earn most of the profits (pimps and traffickers).

[nanashi]

While we're at it, according to a German study, sex trafficking has increased in countries with legal prostitution, like Germany and Switzerland. It has decreased in Sweden and Denmark, both of which have criminalized prostitution.

https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/20...n-trafficking/



^ This is a direct rebuttal to the argument that legalizing prostitution incentivizes people to seek out the legal option.


.........and here's the trade-off: "While trafficking inflows may be lower where prostitution is criminalized, there may be severe repercussions for those working in the industry. For example, criminalizing prostitution penalizes sex workers rather than the people who earn most of the profits (pimps and traffickers)."

That's not the trade-off. EXPLOITERS (buyers, etc) are doing so illegally in Sweden. People whose bodies are traded are NOT fined in Sweden, iirc. So there is NO such trade-off of harsher civic repercussions. It's the people considered most powerful and least vulnerable and who are buying other human beings' bodies who are fined/prosecuted, not the people whose bodies are sold.

[Number 9 large]

That's not the trade-off. EXPLOITERS (buyers, etc) are doing so illegally in Sweden. People whose bodies are traded are NOT fined in Sweden, iirc. So there is NO such trade-off of harsher civic repercussions. It's the people considered most powerful and least vulnerable and who are buying other human beings' bodies who are fined/prosecuted, not the people whose bodies are sold.

The porn isnt gonna go away get a girlfriend dawg

[nanashi]

The porn isnt gonna go away get a girlfriend dawg

You are confusing sexwork with pornography. I know the conversation started with porn, but if you go back and read again, you'd see it shifted to talking about sex slavery and then prostitution/sexwork, which is why I cleared up an issue about the nature of a legal policy in Sweden someone hadn't understood.

Telling someone to get a girlfriend/boyfriend is coercive.

My positions on sexwork and thoughts about pornography haven't disappeared when I've been in relationships. Why would one think my thought-out conclusions would evancesce like that?

[FreelancePoliceman]

Telling someone to get a girlfriend/boyfriend is coercive.

Why do you take every opportunity you can to take offense?

[nanashi]

Why do you take every opportunity you can to take offense?

I don't.


Why are you presuming I am instead of trusting me?

[FreelancePoliceman]

I don't.


Why are you presuming I am instead of trusting me?

Because you described half-serious advice as “coercion.”

[Number 9 large]

You are confusing sexwork with pornography. I know the conversation started with porn, but if you go back and read again, you'd see it shifted to talking about sex slavery and then prostitution/sexwork, which is why I cleared up an issue about the nature of a legal policy in Sweden someone hadn't understood.

Telling someone to get a girlfriend/boyfriend is coercive.

My positions on sexwork and thoughts about pornography haven't disappeared when I've been in relationships. Why would one think my thought-out conclusions would evancesce like that?

yeah my bad i quoted the wrong thing

[End]

Telling someone to get a girlfriend/boyfriend is coercive.

Y'know, for a person who derides my belief of how r/K selection might be on to something, you're kinda proving my point. I assert you are r-selected and you are certainly living up to my expectations of such an entity by the by. How and why is, once more, up to you to find out. I find it better to rely upon the subject's willingness to research claims contrary to their own belief as an indicator as to whether or not they're in a "conversion" state.

Like I've recently realized, I cannot force you to convert to anything. I can only hope you become open to such an event and by the grace of God accurately identify that exact moment and then provide you with the stimuli you need that gets you to finally accept the truth. I doubt I can/will be provided with such an opportunity, but a man can dream.

[xerx]

Y'know, for a person who derides my belief of how r/K selection might be on to something, you're kinda proving my point. I assert you are r-selected and you are certainly living up to my expectations of such an entity by the by. How and why is, once more, up to you to find out. I find it better to rely upon the subject's willingness to research claims contrary to their own belief as an indicator as to whether or not they're in a "conversion" state.

End, it's not nice to use r/K selection theory to make character assassinations.

[End]

End, it's not nice to use r/K selection theory to make character assassinations.

I ain't assassinating anyone here. The theory makes morally neutral statements. That doesn't mean I have to assume such neutrality in how I employ it. Socionics is much the same. It's by and large a non-moral field, but it can provide insight into matters that may be moral in some form. It is, for example, quite predictable that an r-selected individual would sneer upon the virtue of chastity or find the notion of being disgusted upon learning your newest romantic prospect had banged over 100 other people of both sexes as being some form of wrongthinker.

Again I say, such things I would have spelled out in minute detail in the past in the hope that the sheer force of logic as defined within the bounds of our arguments were absolute. That I could "force" someone else to admit they were wrong as if I was teaching a child how and why 2+2=4. That I could somehow make a deductive argument in regards to morality to a person who, at this current point in time, will never listen exactly because they cannot accept the prospect of the existence of True/real evil or the possibility of their salvation if such a thing exists even if they participated in it. I was once a fool...

[Grendel]

Y'know, for a person who derides my belief of how r/K selection might be on to something, you're kinda proving my point. I assert you are r-selected and you are certainly living up to my expectations of such an entity by the by. How and why is, once more, up to you to find out. I find it better to rely upon the subject's willingness to research claims contrary to their own belief as an indicator as to whether or not they're in a "conversion" state.

Like I've recently realized, I cannot force you to convert to anything. I can only hope you become open to such an event and by the grace of God accurately identify that exact moment and then provide you with the stimuli you need that gets you to finally accept the truth. I doubt I can/will be provided with such an opportunity, but a man can dream.

Pro-life is r-strategy.

[gone]

That's not the trade-off. EXPLOITERS (buyers, etc) are doing so illegally in Sweden. People whose bodies are traded are NOT fined in Sweden, iirc. So there is NO such trade-off of harsher civic repercussions. It's the people considered most powerful and least vulnerable and who are buying other human beings' bodies who are fined/prosecuted, not the people whose bodies are sold.

Yeah i'm swedish and can confirm it's illegal to buy sex but it isn't illegal to sell it, we made it like that to protect sex workers, usually women in vulnerable positions

[End]

Yeah i'm swedish and can confirm it's illegal to buy sex but it isn't illegal to sell it, we made it like that to protect sex workers, usually women in vulnerable positions

Ok, how the fuck does that make any form of sense? If it is illegal for me to buy a thing you're selling (and thus, by logical extension, it ought be illegal for me to seek it out) than how the fuck can that not result in both of us risking a prison sentence? That's basically the legal enunciation of the the BS claim of "Tails I win, heads you lose." I'd be wrong for buying what a ho was selling, but the ho was somehow not at fault for initiating the offer? If I go to the deli and order some salami, I'm somehow in the wrong for asking for some salami when the manager is screaming "Get your salami here?"

I have no doubt that Europe is currently insane enough as to think that's somehow logical. My American ancestors, and the descendants that can trace their line back to your beloved Sweden, fled your shithole of a continent/nation for damn good reason and still feel a bit tilted that you're daring to try to re-enslave us serfs to your empires through your globalist/truly imperialistic Bullshit!

Empires fall, as they damn well ought. To mourn that fact is to side with the devil. Prime reason number one: They spout the same illogical BS in their dying days as you are. There's a good reason your nation is a rather insulting meme. To think that you used to produce Viking Kings or spawned the subject of a rather badass and enjoyable Heavy Metal song...

I'm actually doubting your ability to get my references. Prove me wrong will you? As I've said before, I actually relish the prospect of others failing to live down to my predictions .

[nanashi]

Ok, how the fuck does that make any form of sense? If it is illegal for me to buy a thing you're selling (and thus, by logical extension, it ought be illegal for me to seek it out) than how the fuck can that not result in both of us risking a prison sentence? That's basically the legal enunciation of the the BS claim of "Tails I win, heads you lose." I'd be wrong for buying what a ho was selling, but the ho was somehow not at fault for initiating the offer? If I go to the deli and order some salami, I'm somehow in the wrong for asking for some salami when the manager is screaming "Get your salami here?"

There's legal precedent for that. It's not some illogical, newfangled thing. You're arrested for trying to buy other people's organs.
You aren't arrested for desperately trying to sell your own organs, why would you be arrested for trying to rent out your organ (mouth is an organ. vagina, an organ. )?



As for the rest of your vain, dismissive post:

I can trace my relatives back to Europe, including a 1500s prodigy. So? Why should we care?


I make it a point not to denigrate and sneer at people. It's an exercise in strength to recognize how weak it is to tear others down.


you. really. look. like. you. are. neglecting. your. mental. health. when. you. continue.END,to. try. to. prop. yourself. up. pathetically. at. the. expense. of. other. people. No. one. thinks. you're. more. qualified. stronger. or. cooler. when. you. do. this. You. just. come. off. as. shockingly. weak. and. emotionally. un-self-regulated.

You're fine just as yourself without all these weird, backfiring self-protection mechanisms.

People are actually worried about you.

Take the note.

[End]

Pro-life is r-strategy.

Not really. Keeping the results of your promiscuity around/alive by bothering to spend resources upon them is the exact opposite of the r-selection strategy. As I've said before, look upon the common rabbit. What do those parents do for the baby rabbit exactly? Dug it a burrow, huddled with it in the cold a bit perhaps. After it got big enough to hop about on its own after that snow melted away? Fuck em'! Why invest more resources/time into it? It's hopping about on its own now, why care further? Why would you draw off a pack of wolves to defend it now? They certainly don't do that by the way. Mommy rabbit will not and does not jump into the jaws of a big bad wolf to save her offspring.

Human babies require a great deal more than that if you expect them to survive to the point they'll be able to survive independent of their parents. It requires a great deal of sacrifice from both parents if they hope to produce one (let alone multiple) "well-adjusted" examples of the species. The r-selected simply don't want to deal with that. That's why abortion is their modus operandi. If given the choice between sacrificing for the future of the result of a random fuck, or just continuing to indulge in pleasure, they'll pick the later every single time even if it means the murder of their progeny. Thus, pro-life is anything but an r-strategy.

You're fine just as yourself without all these weird, backfiring self-protection mechanisms.

People are actually worried about you.

Take the note.

Aww, I didn't think you'd care about little old me. I am flattered, but I'm still actually more concerned about you. That you show care and empathy towards one you ostensibly ought to see as a mortal enemy means you aren't so forgone as to be beyond potential redemption. I won't force it (again, a painful lesson I won't soon forget). Yet I see there is a non-zero percent chance you may be brought back into the light. I shall hope and pray for that future...

[Grendel]

Not really. Keeping the results of your promiscuity around/alive by bothering to spend resources upon them is the exact opposite of the r-selection strategy. As I've said before, look upon the common rabbit. What do those parents do for the baby rabbit exactly? Dug it a burrow, huddled with it in the cold a bit perhaps. After it got big enough to hop about on its own after that snow melted away? Fuck em'! Why invest more resources/time into it? It's hopping about on its own now, why care further? Why would you draw off a pack of wolves to defend it now? They certainly don't do that by the way. Mommy rabbit will not and does not jump into the jaws of a big bad wolf to save her offspring.

Human babies require a great deal more than that if you expect them to survive to the point they'll be able to survive independent of their parents. It requires a great deal of sacrifice from both parents if they hope to produce one (let alone multiple) "well-adjusted" examples of the species. The r-selected simply don't want to deal with that. That's why abortion is their modus operandi. If given the choice between sacrificing for the future of the result of a random fuck, or just continuing to indulge in pleasure, they'll pick the later every single time even if it means the murder of their progeny. Thus, pro-life is anything but an r-strategy.



Aww, I didn't think you'd care about little old me. I am flattered, but I'm still actually more concerned about you. That you show care and empathy towards one you ostensibly ought to see as a mortal enemy means you aren't so forgone as to be beyond potential redemption. I won't force it (again, a painful lesson I won't soon forget). Yet I see there is a non-zero percent chance you may be brought back into the light. I shall hope and pray for that future...

Real K-selection would be saving more civic energies for raising only high-quality parents' genetic offspring by letting the unwanted babies of poor parents die so that they consume less of a society's resources. On a societal scale, the effect of pro-life is forbidding this economic selection by preserving all lives, and creating a larger pool of offspring in the process. Relative to the already K-selected reference frame of human biology, if they're greater in number and lower in quality, that's basically more r-strategic than the alternative.

K-strategists pick their battles cautiously. Also they have all the good condoms and birth control, since they're higher genetic quality, therefore richer, and can afford these measures.

[nanashi]

Not really. Keeping the results of your promiscuity around/alive by bothering to spend resources upon them is the exact opposite of the r-selection strategy. As I've said before, look upon the common rabbit. What do those parents do for the baby rabbit exactly? Dug it a burrow, huddled with it in the cold a bit perhaps. After it got big enough to hop about on its own after that snow melted away? Fuck em'! Why invest more resources/time into it? It's hopping about on its own now, why care further? Why would you draw off a pack of wolves to defend it now? They certainly don't do that by the way. Mommy rabbit will not and does not jump into the jaws of a big bad wolf to save her offspring.

Human babies require a great deal more than that if you expect them to survive to the point they'll be able to survive independent of their parents. It requires a great deal of sacrifice from both parents if they hope to produce one (let alone multiple) "well-adjusted" examples of the species. The r-selected simply don't want to deal with that. That's why abortion is their modus operandi. If given the choice between sacrificing for the future of the result of a random fuck, or just continuing to indulge in pleasure, they'll pick the later every single time even if it means the murder of their progeny. Thus, pro-life is anything but an r-strategy.



Aww, I didn't think you'd care about little old me. I am flattered, but I'm still actually more concerned about you. That you show care and empathy towards one you ostensibly ought to see as a mortal enemy means you aren't so forgone as to be beyond potential redemption. I won't force it (again, a painful lesson I won't soon forget). Yet I see there is a non-zero percent chance you may be brought back into the light. I shall hope and pray for that future...

Your behaviors are consistently among the most cruel and least en-light-ened, here, End.

I'll take love over your miserly, self-aggrandizing, misanthropic misperception of good A.N.Y.D.A.Y.

[xerx]

That's not the trade-off. EXPLOITERS (buyers, etc) are doing so illegally in Sweden. People whose bodies are traded are NOT fined in Sweden, iirc. So there is NO such trade-off of harsher civic repercussions. It's the people considered most powerful and least vulnerable and who are buying other human beings' bodies who are fined/prosecuted, not the people whose bodies are sold.

The trade-off is that the working conditions of legal prostitutes is better where sex work is legal. It's not just about criminal prosecution.

[nanashi]

The trade-off is that the working conditions of legal prostitutes is better where sex work is legal. It's not just about criminal prosecution.

That conclusion was based on societies where sex workers are CHARGED WITH A CRIME AND SOCIALLY OSTRACIZED. In Sweden, with what's known as the Nordic Model, sex workers are considered persons exploited based on their financial vulnerability and usually their biological sex, afaik, and are NOT charged with any crime. AFAIK, they are also connected with social services to support them.

[mu4]

That conclusion was based on societies where sex workers are CHARGED WITH A CRIME AND SOCIALLY OSTRACIZED. In Sweden, with what's known as the Nordic Model, sex workers are considered persons exploited based on their financial vulnerability and usually their biological sex, afaik, and are NOT charged with any crime. AFAIK, they are also connected with social services to support them.

The only way to deal with it is to criminalize the buying of sex and decriminalize the selling of it. Even if there are people who are willing to sell sex, the demand for it is always greater than the supply, thus sex trafficking. So the nordic model is pretty much the only solution that works currently.

[xerx]

That conclusion was based on societies where sex workers are CHARGED WITH A CRIME AND SOCIALLY OSTRACIZED. In Sweden, with what's known as the Nordic Model, sex workers are considered persons exploited based on their financial vulnerability and usually their biological sex, afaik, and are NOT charged with any crime. AFAIK, they are also connected with social services to support them.

I could be wrong; but, from reading the author's comments, I got the impression that "better working conditions" means a professional, properly regulated environment. I was picturing a clean, well-lit brothel with security guards at the entrance and mandatory customer id'ing. That's a less disadvantageous arrangement than visiting the purchaser's seedy apartment alone.

[nanashi]

I could be wrong; but, from reading the author's comments, I got the impression that "better working conditions" means a professional, properly regulated environment. I was picturing a clean, well-lit brothel with security guards at the entrance and mandatory customer id'ing. That's a less disadvantageous arrangement than visiting the purchaser's seedy apartment alone.

it's an economics problem. but the description you're talking about is only ONE model that improperly fits the problem and isn't a solution. There are other options (hence my bringing up the Nordic model)