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Thread: Mirage leading

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    chocolatte's Avatar
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    Default Mirage leading

    From the wikisocion description,

    The relationship usually progresses smoothly, but it depends on how close the partners are, what terms the relationship started on, and which of the two leads the relationship (usually the older, more experienced partner.)
    According to Filatova, the one in charge is important - if it is the more positive of the two, or the one more that is more of a natural psychologist, then the relation will run smoothly.

    In your experience of mirage relations where both individuals are on equal footing (similar age, position..) who was the one leading the relationship?

    Maybe it just depends on NTR-personality factors. With one ILE i clearly do the leading, but i sense it may not be the case with all.
    It probably also depends on depth of relationship.

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    Consilience's Avatar
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    My childhood best friend of 20 years is an ESI... I was always the one who took charge of all the planning and made back up plans because my friend tends to space out on plans a lot.

    Ex. She was planning to come visit me via plane, my dad bought the ticket and everything. She spaced on the time so my dad exchanged ticket. LOL...

    I love her dearly but her lack of foresight on social situations always drove me up the wall... I used to awkwardly call her out on her behavior but eventually just tuned her drama out.

    She's great because she takes me on adventures and helps to take the big stick out of my ass that's sometimes there. In return, I help her plan things out better and see the trajectory of her actions.

    I would guess Ejs tend to do more of the leading.

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    удобный сукин сын Cybel's Avatar
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    SEE always. Imagine beating them in leading, I can’t.
    I know one that managed to piss a lot of ppl off but we somehow get along great, just overlook some of their slip ups and all’s good. I used to be jealous because she does this thing where she brags about this one friend and how they’re so close and how cool and cute she is, it irritates a lot of people and used to bother me. Then I realized it was probably unconscious and she’ll grow out of it one day. Another one was the pure incarnate of chaos, recklessness, forgetting. They are always a mixed bag, too commanding, occasionally harsh, can be a bit shallow. If you overlook those qualities a bit than SEEs can be some of the kindest and generous humans you’ll ever meet in an extremely rare way. And don’t be clingy. Then the relationship is smooth as butter!

     



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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    From the wikisocion description,

    The relationship usually progresses smoothly, but it depends on how close the partners are, what terms the relationship started on, and which of the two leads the relationship (usually the older, more experienced partner.)
    According to Filatova, the one in charge is important - if it is the more positive of the two, or the one more that is more of a natural psychologist, then the relation will run smoothly.

    In your experience of mirage relations where both individuals are on equal footing (similar age, position..) who was the one leading the relationship?

    Maybe it just depends on NTR-personality factors. With one ILE i clearly do the leading, but i sense it may not be the case with all.
    It probably also depends on depth of relationship.
    I've had two Mirage relationships (with LSI's). In the first one, I was older but inexperienced and she was aggressive and pushed and pushed, which I was fine with. With respect to leading, I'd say that we were pretty evenly matched. I was perhaps more established, but I was in awe of her in many ways.
    I refused to marry her because I thought she would not make a good mother, so we broke up.

    In my second, more recent Mirage relationship, I was more clearly in charge. I made much more money and I'm more psychologically perceptive, and things went smoothly as long as I felt OK about the problems with Mirage relationships and out-of-quadra value clashes. What also helped that relationship was the fact that she was an e6 and slightly scattered and insecure, and I'm an e8, very stable and grounded-seeming. She was also an Aggressor to my Victim.

    Honestly, if she were ESI, I'd probably still be with her. But man, she had some fundamentally different values than I have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    In your experience of mirage relations where both individuals are on equal footing (similar age, position..) who was the one leading the relationship?
    You may read any baseless nonsense. You should trust only to what has good theory basis and to your exprience.

    Let's for a simplicity describe a situation where is no significant "nontypes" difference as in education, specific trained skills, IQ, age, etc. Then...
    From types point people tend to lead in own strong (especially strong valued) regions. Where the other has your ego function in superid - you get a leadership easer. Where the other has in superego - you'll want to lead as notice problems but may get dumb resisting. Where both are strong but have different value - you may get an opposing but also have good possibility to be understood. Where both have strong and valued region - both cooperate and exchange by info as equals.

    In mirage 2 people tend to get a leadership in their 2nd function regions: every has own region of a leadership. Also they may cooperate good (with some tension) in 1st function regions. The similar relates to nonvalued variants of those functions, though a trust their establishes harder.
    When such happens - relations correspond with functions strenght or people act there a equals - relations go by best way. Problems will appear if someone with weaker region will try to lead in it - you'll just perceive him as a clown.

    There are 2 IR which are said as inequal: ordering and revising. Where a task is to make good personal relations - a friendship, then it always supposes that 2 people perceive each other as equals - both have strong mutual personal interest and get support. For these IR the specifics is that it's harder for one of them to perceive the other one as equal.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    From the wikisocion description,

    The relationship usually progresses smoothly, but it depends on how close the partners are, what terms the relationship started on, and which of the two leads the relationship (usually the older, more experienced partner.)
    According to Filatova, the one in charge is important - if it is the more positive of the two, or the one more that is more of a natural psychologist, then the relation will run smoothly.

    In your experience of mirage relations where both individuals are on equal footing (similar age, position..) who was the one leading the relationship?

    Maybe it just depends on NTR-personality factors. With one ILE i clearly do the leading, but i sense it may not be the case with all.
    It probably also depends on depth of relationship.
    Interesting, I never heard this idea before. My closest Mirage relationship is my ILE-Ti best friend of 13 years, and right now our life circumstances seem pretty equal apart from the fact she's a year older and I'm a little more well off financially.

    In areas of volition I usually lead. I think I have a slightly more decisive/dominant personality than she does but I attribute that to her being a 9 who is usually happy to follow someone else's agenda unless it doesn't make sense to her. I definitely don't feel like I'm the most decisive or dominant with other ILEs.

    But when it comes to advice/problems, I feel like I'm the one asking her thoughts on an issue and she rarely does that with me. She comes to me for "pats on the head" and to feel connected to someone emotionally. So in the sense of seeking advice for issues, I'd say she leads. Maybe she'd say she does learn a lot from me on navigating relationships just by observing, but I don't know.

    Interesting point about the relationship being smoother if the "leading" one is more of a psychologist or a very positive person. She tends to be very positive but I'm the psychologist. So...best of both worlds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    There are 2 IR which are said as inequal: ordering and revising. Where a task is to make good personal relations - a friendship, then it always supposes that 2 people perceive each other as equals - both have strong mutual personal interest and get support. For these IR the specifics is that it's harder for one of them to perceive the other one as equal.
    Do you think an unequal IR could potentially cancel out inequality to equalize an unequal pair?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Do you think an unequal IR could potentially cancel out inequality to equalize an unequal pair?
    Everything counts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Everything counts.
    What does that even mean Adam?

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    With all things equal, types using closed-loop rationalization (Te or Fe) tend to provide most of the driving forces for one-on-one interactions. However with mirage, there's usually little equal footing - but also little potential for competition, which is a good thing.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 11-27-2020 at 01:34 PM.

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