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Thread: Type descriptions by M-L von Franz

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Default Type descriptions by M-L von Franz

    Hi forum.

    If you are interested in more type/function descriptions:

    Marie-Louise von Franz has descriptions of the 8 functions (types). You can find them in the book "Lectures on Jung's typology"

    It's Jungian so the perspective is maybe slightly different. Lot's of experiences from clients in analysis etc. But her descriptions are definitely a great complement to socionics/Jung descriptions.

    She also gives specific attention to the suggestive ("inferior") function. Pretty interesting stuff there.

    I'm still reading it. Lot's of things to digest.

    You can buy the e-book here.

    EDIT: von Franz is one of the most well-known Jungian analysts and authors. And also a really interesting person.
    Last edited by Tallmo; 11-20-2020 at 06:33 PM.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Kinda unfortunate book cover yet to-the-point. Just measuring heads here ma'am.

    Edit: sorry for the silliness. I had a gummy bear and carbs.
    Last edited by Kalinoche buenanoche; 11-20-2020 at 07:19 PM.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalinoche buenasnoches View Post
    Kinda unfortunate book cover yet to-the-point. Just measuring heads here ma'am.

    "Cover image from Essays on Physiognomy Designed to Promote the Knowledge and Love of Mankind by Johann Caspar Lavater (London 1810)"
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Hi forum.

    If you are interested in more type/function descriptions:

    Marie-Louise von Franz has descriptions of the 8 functions (types). You can find them in the book "Lectures on Jung's typology"

    It's Jungian so the perspective is maybe slightly different. Lot's of experiences from clients in analysis etc. But her descriptions are definitely a great complement to socionics/Jung descriptions.

    She also gives specific attention to the suggestive ("inferior") function. Pretty interesting stuff there.

    I'm still reading it. Lot's of things to digest.

    You can buy the e-book here.

    EDIT: von Franz is one of the most well-known Jungian analysts and authors. And also a really interesting person.
    Von Franz seems ILE to me, 0:45-1:15.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Von Franz seems ILE to me, 0:45-1:15.

    I'm thinking LII
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


    My Pinterest

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    Here's an excerpt from Von Franz on the Introverted Intuitive:

    "The introverted intuitive type has the same capacity as the extraverted intuitive for smelling out the future, having the right guess or the right hunch about the not-yet-seen future possibilities of a situation. But his intuition is turned within, and therefore he is primarily the type of the religious prophet, of the seer. On a primitive level, he is the shaman who knows what the gods and the ghosts and the ancestral spirits are planning and who conveys their messages to the tribe.

    In psychological language we should say that he knows about the slow processes which go on in the collective unconscious, the archetypal changes. and he communicates them to society. The prophets of the Old Testament, for instance, were people who, while the children of Israel were happily asleep - as the masses always are ·- from time to time told them what Yahweh's real intentions were, what he was doing now, and what he wanted his people1 to do. The people generally did not enjoy hearing these messages.

    Many introverted intuitives are to be/found among artists and poets. They generally are artists who produce very archetypal and fantastic material, such as you find in Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra or in Gustav Meyrinck's The Golem and Kubin 's The Other Side. This kind of visionary art is generally only understood by later generations, as a representation of what was going on in the collective unconscious at that time. The inferior .sensation of this type also has difficulties in noticing the needs of the body and controlling its appetites.

    Swedenborg had a vision in which God Himself told him he should not eat so much! He ate, naturally, without the slightest self-discipline and with complete unawareness. Swedenborg was a typical introve:rted intuitive, the prophet or seer type, and he was simply coarse and uninhibited about over-eating. The introverted intuitive also suffers, as the extraverted intuitive does, from a tremendous vagueness where facts are concerned. As an illustration of the more ridiculous aspect of the inferior sensation of an introverted intuitive, I offer the following story.

    An introverted intuitive woman was present when I gave a lecture on early Greek philosophy and was terribly moved and impressed by it. Afterwards, she asked me to give her private lessons on the subject of pre-Socratic philosophy, as she wanted to get deeper into this field. She invited me to tea and, as happens very often when you have to give lessons to introverted intuitives, she wasted the first hour in telling me how moved she was and what she conceived to be at the back of my mind and what she believed we could do together, and so on. The second hom also got wasted in the same way, and. as I felt I should earn my money and get her going somehow, 1 insisted we look at a book which I had brought and proceed in a systematic way.

    She agreed, but added that I must leave her alone, she had to do it quite her own way. I noticed that she was getting nervous. When I came for the next hour, she said she had found the best way to get into the problem; namely, that she could naturally not study Greek philosophy without knowing about the Greeks, and she could not know about the Greeks before knowing quite concretely about their country. So she had started to draw a map of Greece, and she showed me the map. It had taken a lot of time.

    With her inferior sensation she had first had to buy paper and pencils and ink - that excited her enormously. she was absolutely in heaven about her achievement! She said that she could not yet go on with philosophy, she had first to finish the map. So by the next time she had coloured it! That went on for a few months, and then her intuition picked another theme and we never got down to Greek philosophy! She left 1 Zlirich and I did not see her again until about fifteen years later; then she told me a Jong story of how she was still impressed and moved by the lessons on Greek philosophy which I had given her and all that she had gained from them! She hadl just drawn a map! She was a very extreme case of introverted intuition.

    But I must admit, in looking back, that 1 see what a really numinous thing it was for that woman to d aw this map of Greece; for the first time she had got in touch with her inferio sensation. The introverted intuitive is o ten so completely unaware of outer facts that his reports have to be treated with the greatest care. Though he does not lie consciously, he can tell the most appalling untruths, simply because he does not notice what is right under his nose. I very often distrust ghost reports, for instance, and reports about para-psychological facts for those reasons. Introverted intuitives are very much interested in such fields, but because of their weakness in observing facts and their lack of concentration on the external situation, they can tell you the most appalling nonsense and swear it is true.

    They pass by an absolutely amazing number of outer facts and just do not take them in. I remember, for instance, driving with an introverted intuitive type one autumn, and in the fields the potatoes were being dug up and there were bonfires. I had noticed that for quite some time and was enjoying the sight. Suddenly the driver stopped the car in horror, sniffed, and said: "Something is burning! Is it coming from outside? " We looked at the brakes, and everything was all right; then we decided it was outside after all, it was the bonfires!

    The bonfires were everywhere, and to me it was obvious that the smell of burning came from them! But an introverted intuitive can drive for an hour through the country with,such phenomena all about and not notice a thing! And then suddenly he will be struck by the fact and make completely incorrect deductions. His inferior sensation has J { the quality which allinferior functions have, namely that it comes up into r,; consciousness in islands; sometimes it functions, and then it disappears. Suddenly a smell is intensely realised, whereas three-quarters of an hour before it was not realised at all, but then suddenly it is taken in with great intensity.

    The inferior sensation of an introverted intuitive is extremely intense, but it breaks through only here and there and then fades again from the field of awareness. The introverted intuitive has particular trouble in approaching sex because it involves his inferior extraverted sensation. It is most tragically mirrored in the works of Nietzsche, for instance, where, towards the end of his career, shortly before he went insane, very coarse sexual allusions penetrate his poems and also appear in Thus Spake Zarathustra. When he went insane, he apparently produced material of that kind, which was destroyed after his death because of its absolutely distasteful character. Inferior extraverted sensation in his case was very much connected with women and sex, \(,) in a completely concrete way, and he didn't know how to deal with the problem at all.

    The positive aspect of inferior extraverted sensation in the case of an introverted intuitive is to be found in an interesting way in the illumination experience of Jakob Boehme, a German mystic and an introverted intuitive type. He had a wife and six children for whom he never earned any money. He was in constant trouble with them because his wife always said that instead of writing books about God and fantasying about the inner development of the Godhead he would do better to see that his family had something to eat. He was absolutely crucified between these two poles of life. Now his greatest inner experience, a revelation of the Godhead upon which all his later writings are based, came from seeing a ray of light being reflected in a tin plate.

    That sensation experience snapped him into an inner ecstasy and within a minute he saw, so to speak, the whole mystery of the Godhead. For years he did nothing except slowly translate into discursive language what he had seen inwardly in one minute, in one second! His writing is so emotional and chaotic because he tried to describe this one experience in so many amplifications. BUit the actual vision was set in motion by seeing a ray of light striking a tin plate on his table.

    This implies extraverted sensation - an outer sensation fact started off the process of individuation in him. Here one can see, besides the inferior aspect of extraverted sensation, this strange character of wholeness, the mystical aspect, which the inferior function often has. It is interesting that even Swedenborg's over-eating connected him with the Godhead. His inferior sensation was connected with his deepest and greatest concern."
    succeeding sandcastles; hereafter,
    becoming antonymn to disaster

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