@End do you really think that you rust-belt / coal-belt / dixie boys would win a civil war? The first time around, your side wasn't industrialized. The second time around.... your side isn't industrialized.
@End do you really think that you rust-belt / coal-belt / dixie boys would win a civil war? The first time around, your side wasn't industrialized. The second time around.... your side isn't industrialized.
Last edited by xerx; 01-07-2021 at 06:50 AM.
Well, try to see it from my end. See, the "woke" crowd didn't say shit when BLM and other such people were literally burning down their own towns and cities. Indeed, they said that "we should listen to their grievances" or "Try to understand why they're doing this" and other such absolute BS. Really? What about ours? Oh right, our "grievances" are the result of our "privileges" being "challenged" by what amounts to all the facets of polite society, academia, and our federal fucking government. If you can't see even in theory the absolute BS emanating from those faux moralistic prognostications I have nothing more to say to you. This sentiment is shared by them, but for the wrong reasons and from exactly opposed doctrines. People like me want to convince others I'm right. However, if those I want to convince view my attempts at peace as declarations of war well... I can't fix that.Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
This is something most of the "woke" crowd fail to grasp because of their critical and absolute lack of introspection. As I am fond of thought experiments, piece this one out. Why would a group of conservatives, actual conservatives mind you not MKULTRA wind up toys, storm the damn capital building? They know that's the dumb thing to do but I mean fuck, what other option is there now? If they're essentially going to throw us and ours into reeducation camps at the very least we ought to fight it correct?
I've said one thing about the holocaust time and again every time I was asked about my position on it: "The worst mistake the Jews made was getting on those trains without so much as a single fight"
What we're all about to collectively witness is the fact that that particular mistake will not be repeated here. Americans are a people who have maxed out Individuality and totally minimalized "power distance" as a matter of personal pride and the reality of their own national myth. I mean hell, can you imagine any other nation that would "frag" their "commanders" and take pride in the fact they originated the term? I wonder if the spineless cowards we call leaders will dare to test these particular conclusions of mine... Much dark humor is to be had imagining the multitude of scenarios where we did frag our pussy ass commander and the top brass didn't dare to ask to many questions.
Privates and Non-coms. Woe betide any pompous general/commander who disdains them!
Counterpoint: Who currently grows and delivers to your door all your food City Dweller? Another one: Look at an election map by county from 2016 and 2020. Seeing a pattern genius? I'm seeing a ruling class/colonizers besieged. Y'know, dots of blue literally surrounded by oceans of red. You're a noble in their castle who assumes you can rule without the consent of those lowly serfs you rule over.
Can you grow all that food by yourself in your little castle. With a proper solar farm, aquaponics setup, and a myriad of other things I know about and desire to put into practice one day? Yes. Can you right now without my help?
I'd bet No and you can bet the likes of me know that. Back in the Civil War 1.0 days most of the Northerner's were perfectly able to transition back into being rural farmers if "industry" fell through. I can quiz you on a few things I bet will prove you're not even capable of managing a backyard garden without resorting to Google.
I am glad that resourse exists because that means some people will be able to recall that vital knowledge, but honestly, you're denigrating the people you rely on. We grow your food, we drive your ambulances/trucks, we connect your calls. And, most hilariously of all, when the "MAGA" crowd stormed the Capital Building, your side begged for the National Guard to come in and obliterate those who, if they were BLM or ANTIFA, you'd say we ought to "listen" to. Which, by the by, only responded because Orange "funny mustache man" told them to. Process that will you?
I said it above. Get a gun, get out of the cities, stock up on a ready source of calories, and don't get in our way. I do care for those who hate me, I only wish they'd at least feign to return the favor...
The United States is a highly urbanized country (as are all developed countries), and the majority of Americans live in those 'dots of blue'. The majority of commerce is conducted there, without which you wouldn't be able to export your produce to anyone. Most of the tools that you use were designed there. Without city dwellers, would you know how to build a combustion engine for your tractor? Would you be able to design a GPS satellite from scratch? Do you know how to make insulin?
I'm not denigrating you, and there's no need for the defensiveness. I have a great deal of respect and concern for rural people, who are in fact badly overlooked by the modern political economy. I have a bit of a puritanical streak myself, prefer certain rural attitudes towards self-dependence, and intend to retire to a farm in the countryside.
If anything, people like me are the ones trying to get your industry to come back from being offshored. There are different factions of mutually-antagonistic city dwellers because cities are highly complex societies—they're not a Neoliberal monolith intending to suck the blood of every poor farmer. That said, it's clear that much of the tension between rural and urban areas is over cultural rather than economic differences, with religion playing an important role.
Last edited by xerx; 01-08-2021 at 05:23 AM. Reason: rewording
@End What I implied is that your threats of civil war are neither very credible nor particularly threatening. Even if you somehow enlisted enough oddball individuals to join this futile crusade, mounting an insurrection against the American army will go very badly for you.
You are outspoken, I'll give you that, but dogged outspokenness isn't enough to change the power disparity between you and the government.
Who do you think the grand majority of privates, non-coms, and anyone of Captain or lesser commissioned rank voted for? They are the ones with actual skin in the game. It is they who will actually fight the war. There is damn good reason they tend to call everyone else in the military REMF's. Rear. Echelon. Mother. Fuckers. There's a fundamental disconnect between the logistics/command and the fighting aspect of a war.
Now, those of us who are outside of that can tell you that the logistic side is what wins the war (and why I'm telling you my side is advantaged as we make the food you kind of need to live by the by), but good luck convincing a man or woman who is dodging bullets, bayonets, artillery bombardments, and all the other horrors of combat that some dickwad in the rear has it quite as hard as they do. Children study tactics and men study logistics, but you can't really fault that difference of perception. The "kids" get to see their best friends turned into piles of goo. Yeah, I'd rebel against them too and damn the logic. Frank the tank got liquified because of your BS priorities! Fuck you!
You are a REMF, and I respect the work you do, but I'm also one of the few that actually can and will. And then there's the last thing that actually screws you over. Like I said, who makes the food? We may export food to you, but imagine we decided to NOT do that. Y'know, just because, for reasons. Like I said above in regards to the first Civil War. The population of the north still had the knowledge and ability to go right back to being farmers. Now? I mean, I believe the CHAZ gave me all the reason I need to not fear the cities at all here. 6 inches of soil heaped upon cardboard with plants still in their plastic pots and they thought yeah that'll work.
If you question how and why dark ages happen, how civilizations can forget mission critical knowledge, I rest my case on that one. People in the cities have literally forgotten how basic bitch agriculture/plants work! That makes them the bitches of the MAGA crowd and, as we haven't forgotten what your side/the MSM had to say around May where D.C. was literally on fire? Yeah, get fucked. Pass a witch test or starve. At least we'd grant you a mercy you'd gladly refuse us...
Last edited by End; 01-09-2021 at 04:43 AM.
The vast majority of revolutions have ended in total and complete failure; countries have been historically successful at crushing dissent, and the United States has been no exception.
Something catastrophic has to happen for soldiers to revolt against the country they're sworn to protect. Revolutions succeed in countries that are bankrupt and can't pay their soldiers. They succeed in war-torn countries that have lost a fifth of their territory in the course of a great war capitulation. They succeed when the officer corps is split down the middle; for instance, due to promotions being dispensed on the basis of patronage rather than merit (think about a country like Syria).
It's not a hard and fast principle since anything is possible, but it's not easy to win a revolution, even in the aforementioned, non-exhaustive list of cases. There will also be other rising factions waiting in the wings, mobilizing their forces to strike at you. Even if it were easy to win a revolution, anything that's easy to win is easy to lose.
I don't appreciate vulgar insults being directed at me. If you want to argue like a gentleman instead of trade insults, I'll listen politely.Yeah, get fucked. Pass a witch test or starve.
Last edited by xerx; 01-09-2021 at 06:40 AM.
Sorry, I got a little bit heated there and I apologize for comparing/lumping you in with the average leftie. You have, if nothing else, at least 3 standard deviations on them in the IQ department and I respect that. Still, I'm not as heated as our current ruling class and their sympathizers (i.e. those dumb lefties I lumped you in with in my emotional outburst). I'm looking at many a feed and the stuff those folks are saying, or hell, even doing (looking at you Jack Dorsey) are. Oh man, a mere "get fucked" fired anonymously from an actor with no intent or desire to harm you in any way save perhaps the intellectual/ego is almost a stealth compliment!
You are right in that most uprisings/revolutions/etc. are quickly and easily crushed by the PTB and that America is no stranger to this fact of history. This kind of ties into my earlier point about that Mandate of Heaven business. Dissent happens. Violent dissent happens. Hell, Civil Wars happen! Roman history, for instance, is a smorgasbord of pretty much any political conflict you can imagine. Yet "Rome" as a civilization endured for around a thousand years. The Chinese can claim an unbroken line of a coherent Civilization that exceeds that because they got literal written records that go far back enough to put the west to shame.
Point was, in all cases, that things kind of work out for rulers until they don't and that "don't" is easy to spot in hindsight and thus a pattern can be recognized no matter what angle your coming from. East, West, North, Coreward, Rimward, Spinward, it matters little. I'm recognizing the end of a dynasty right about now. That "mandate" is no longer in play. Every time that happened, well, that "revolution" that tends to end in failure ended in a resounding success. In the Chinese example, the emperor and their entire court down to pretty much the last man, woman, and child was relegated to the past tense. In the West, well, French Revolution. I'd wager money I don't got to wager we're gonna go through the exact inversion of that one if Biden becomes the officially sworn in president on the 20th.
Well, not an exact inversion. Guillotines will still be employed and all, but you won't see temples to "reason" erected upon the ground of churches but the exact opposite. Y'know, Planned Parenthood buildings being converted into chapels to the Holy Mother and the like. It'll take more effort than I'm willing to expend for free for me to fully form my myriad visions of the future into coherent text but I hope you can get the jist of it from this little spiel.
I again repeat, stock up on food, become armed with weapons of war, and do not get in the way of the fresh out of mercy Americans who will do what they feel needs to be done against a ruling class and their cronies who hate them for no gosh darn good reason save that, upon reviewing the evidence, they were right about the existence of demons and how sin dims the intellect. From that angle it all makes total sense now. Pity it took such an overt demonstration but hey, God is nothing if not merciful and if you need it to be spelled out for you if that means you'll attain salvation...
Last edited by End; 01-10-2021 at 05:32 AM.
I don't think a rural revolution is possible in a industrial society, and it takes a long time before a society devolves into a situation where any sort of revolution is possible. But it is this very failure of revolution and radical reform that makes fascism possible. And this is what happened to the highly cultured societies of Germany, Italy, Japan you could say it was indeed this great "height" of culture that made such a turn possible. Also Germany/Italy/Japan had the cultural/philosophical background which made Fascism preferable to isolationism. I see isolationism as the road US, UK will take, UK has already embarked on this with Brexit and really even before this with decolonization of it's commonwealth. US is beginning it's isolationist policies today even. I do not see this disunity as bad in our society because this is merely the fundamental contradictions of American society expressing itself, the problems were always here and now we must embark on the adventure of dealing with these contradictions.
America's revolution was rather unique and I believe there is opportunity for a unique revolutionary process here, this is a process that has been analyzed by almost ever single revolutionary since it's occurrence and this new revolutionary journey that is underway will be watched for both its failure and success.
It's my opinion, the core contradiction in America is it's roots in a tradition of philosophical universalism rooted in reason that was mixed with economic exploitation via slavery/exploitation. The north and south indeed. The end result is a false universalism embodied in white supremacy. The battle today is the same as 1865 but the emancipation(if achieved) should both be ideological and material. This will translate into systematic structural reforms. How to achieve these radical reforms, because in my opinion at its root ideology and culture is rooted in trauma. And these roots are baked into the structures of our society as defense mechanisms. And these trauma are repeated by the civilization over and over again like a question, which we expect the different results from the same patterns of behavior. But ultimately this repetition is also our opportunity for emancipation, which itself will also be traumatic and see us in another repetition.
Most people are hypocrites, especially when it comes to politics. But I think your sense of the "sides" people are on is misguided. You keep using vague terms -- "people like me" (who's that?), "polite society, academia, and our federal fucking government", as if they all have the same politics, and when you seem to be talking about liberals exclusively. And you talk about an urban/rural divide but don't seem to have an idea what's at the root of that divide or how or why it maps to a broader conservative/liberal divide. And more to the point I'm not sure you know what you want, or what the people you claim to oppose really want. You're angry but don't really have much idea what's wrong in the first place, let alone how to make it better.
Because the only interesting political acts anymore come from LARPers who, like you, don't know what they want and have no plan to achieve it. BLM was the same way; the 'autonomous' group in Seattle was the same way; the 'abolish the police' crowd is the same way. Black nationalists have a really similar mentality to you in particular. Everyone is the enemy, who hates the "real" working people who make the world go around. Even down to the tone it's the same: an air of melodramatic significance. "They're literally going to fucking send us to concentration camps." "They're literally trying to commit genocide against us." It'd be funny if it weren't pathetic.This is something most of the "woke" crowd fail to grasp because of their critical and absolute lack of introspection. As I am fond of thought experiments, piece this one out. Why would a group of conservatives, actual conservatives mind you not MKULTRA wind up toys, storm the damn capital building? They know that's the dumb thing to do but I mean fuck, what other option is there now? If they're essentially going to throw us and ours into reeducation camps at the very least we ought to fight it correct?
So, there haven't been too many revolutions throughout history. They happen, but most of the time, the nobility rule over people perfectly well. If you'd like to revolt, you'll need either good organization or at least a shared understanding of what's wrong. If I'm Bob, a 50-year-old farmer from Nebraska, what are you going to say to me to get me to stop working and go drive to the state capital and risk my life? What am I fighting for?Another one: Look at an election map by county from 2016 and 2020. Seeing a pattern genius? I'm seeing a ruling class/colonizers besieged. Y'know, dots of blue literally surrounded by oceans of red. You're a noble in their castle who assumes you can rule without the consent of those lowly serfs you rule over.
Are you a farmer? Realistically, if for whatever reason farmers just stop farming, the government can just increase subsidies to farmers until they start working again.Can you grow all that food by yourself in your little castle. With a proper solar farm, aquaponics setup, and a myriad of other things I know about and desire to put into practice one day? Yes. Can you right now without my help?
Again, your "sides" aren't coherent. Who are they? Republicans? Plenty of ambulance drivers and EMTs vote Democrat. Even some farmers vote blue. And the people you're pointing out are people who act exactly like you, making a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. Retards on Twitter or wherever you're seeing them shouldn't be listened to.I am glad that resourse exists because that means some people will be able to recall that vital knowledge, but honestly, you're denigrating the people you rely on. We grow your food, we drive your ambulances/trucks, we connect your calls. And, most hilariously of all, when the "MAGA" crowd stormed the Capital Building, your side begged for the National Guard to come in and obliterate those who, if they were BLM or ANTIFA, you'd say we ought to "listen" to. Which, by the by, only responded because Orange "funny mustache man" told them to. Process that will you?
Wasn't it Pence who mobilized the national guard, not Trump?
I'm still curious who you think hates you.I said it above. Get a gun, get out of the cities, stock up on a ready source of calories, and don't get in our way. I do care for those who hate me, I only wish they'd at least feign to return the favor...
@FreelancePoliceman. Who hates me and mine? You do, or at least those whom you apparently identify with do. Perhaps you do not and if you don't that's another point towards me being overly cynical.
In regards to revolutions, well, I'm a fan of the Dynastic Cycle. See, the Chinese have a pretty good concept going. There's this "mandate of Heaven" you see. In Western Democracies we call this "The Will of the People" capiche? So long as you have it, you need fear nothing. The instant you lose it though, ho boy, you and your entire court are fully and thoroughly fucked. Fun fact now that I consider it, it actually matches up with my Christian beliefs. Only one Emperor lived to see the founding of the succeeding dynasty. He did this by retreating into a Buddhist monastery.
As he was known far and wide as a hedonist piece of shit that'd be the exact last place his enemies would look for him. However, you know those monks would know that. Merciful as they were wont to be, they gave him that one last chance. He succeeded in passing their muster. He repented of his many sins and was likewise granted absolution.
Here's a blog that basically lays out my feelings: http://www.scifiwright.com/2021/01/a...nt/#more-27280
He's not wrong and his writings are far more compelling than anything Hollywood is coming out with.
Different coalitions this time. This time the pro-slavery side is Big Tech, Big Corp and also Big Agriculture. The first time around the pro-slavery dems were just Big Agriculture.
Sounds to me like End is on the anti-slavery, pro-freedom side.
Last edited by squark; 01-09-2021 at 03:14 AM.
End is also a nativist IIRC, so it's a little more complicated.
I can assure you that I am not unaware or unmoved by the anti-establishmentarian draw of the Trump movement. But it's a truism at this point that Trump is just another creature of the crony-capitalist swamp. I really don't see this person leading the change to some glorious workers' utopia.
Trump is just a narcissistic fool. He's not leading anything. He however has been useful to shine the light on just how deep the problem is. It's pretty interesting really - you can watch him give a speech and it is immediately twisted into bizarre forms by the media, a lot of times they just outright lie and tell you he said something different from what you heard with your own ears. Crazy stuff. And look at the reaction by all the tech companies - outright preventing service to millions of people based on political beliefs alone. Credit card companies refusing payment based on political stances. It's bad. Really bad.
And that's only part of it. I was also talking about them supporting literal slavery. Apple, Nike, Coca-cola and others have all been lobbying against a literal anti-slavery bill. This one: Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act
There are people who actually do want control, want to prevent a massive number of people from exercising their rights, want to put small businesses and regular folks out of work, and consolidate power even more, while supporting slavery, extortion, and completely eliminating the voices of any competition or opposition. That's the slavery side. A lot of petty tyrants in governments are on that side and being paid handsomely to stay on that side as well. The lockdowns are a symptom of that side. The nonsensical restrictions of various sorts are on that side.
Anyone who's against all that and wants rights and freedoms for all people is on the anti-slavery side whether they're a Bernie bro or a Trumpster or someone in a tent in the desert or whatever.
This "attack" on Congress was planned and predicted and I watched gov plants instigate and try to encourage it. I thought it was going to be worse. It is a speck of nothing compared to all the antifa and BLM riots and burnings that have been going on for months, and continue to go on. It's what was needed though to give an excuse for the coordinated and pre-planned simultaneous shutdown of political opposition.
Edit: Removed my dramatic edit. Some thoughts I'll just keep in my head heh.
Last edited by squark; 01-11-2021 at 03:52 AM.
I agree that the system is pretty rotten. Opposition to the anti-slavery bill is something that could have been foreseen from a mile away. The Covid-19 lockdowns, justified or not, have also created a transfer of wealth from small businesses to Amazon, and many of these businesses probably won't recover.
The social media thing is going to keep getting worse too. Companies have been mining user information on social media for a while. Insurance companies are using that information to determine rates. Airbnb has used it to deny service to people. For all the talk about China's surveillance-dystopia, we've created our own 'social credit system' that will compel people to conform and self-moderate.
I think that we're on the same page when it comes to all of that. What I'd object to is this: that any populist fighting the government is doing it from a sense of aggrievement against existing economic conditions. A lot of it really is cultural. I could be misreading the political climate (I'm not American and I get all my information indirectly, through media), but there's a reason that Trump's populism appealed to these people more than Bernie Sanders'.
If anyone's interested in learning more: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessica...rmine-premiums
get this: Twitter banned Trump lmao wtf. Now thats going pretty damn far and shows where these corporations basically stand at this point. Want freedom of speech, want to say relatively normal stuff? Well you can't and you better watch what you tweet or post, the police might show up at your door.. banks may refuse to do business with you or allow you to withdraw your money, it has already happened to ppl.
Now I'm no fan of Trump, but this stuff is getting rather dire. After trying to move to Parlor, google said they will drop that app from their platform aka phones if they do not introduce much stricter speech regulations.
First they came for the "Fascists"
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Fascist
Then they came for the Traditionalists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Traditionalist
Then they came for the Conservatives
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Conservative
Then they came for the white men
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a white man
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
They have us here by the balls, these multinational corporate monopolies have to go. Pretty soon its going to be us vs the suits and the bugmen for sure.
I dare any fellow socialist to come to me and tell me to support these corporate monopolies and the complicit state/government.. I FUCKING DARE YOU TELL ME TO SUPPORT OVERT FASCISM. Come on... do it , the rest of you hypocrites are doing it day in day out, sipping Starbucks coffe larping.
Last edited by SGF; 01-09-2021 at 08:15 AM.
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