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Thread: Quadral complex in yourself

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    chocolatte's Avatar
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    Default Quadral complex in yourself

    In what ways do you see yourself viewing the world in the same way as your quadra does?

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    assigned lilim at birth Cybel's Avatar
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    I really like your posts @chocolatte. They're not repetitive and easy to digest. They are also kinda fun. I don't even care if no one reads them it's just nice to dig into yourself and Socionics a bit. Although I do wish I was better at pure theory-spouting.

    Pros

    • refinement, i can turn oil into water
    • cozy, my room is a nest filled with pretty trinkets and assorted collected knick-knacks
    • whimsical fantasy elements, big fan of fairytales and simple genres with a nice twist (secretly a huge horror fan but that doesn't fit w/ the stereotypes)
    • mostly healthy perfectionism, would feel suicidal without otherwise being able to "level up" something
    • balance between cheap and high standards for quality objects
    • self improvement is an eternal sidequest of sorts, always at the back of the mind

    Cons

    • aesthetic snob
    • "burrow syndrome" urge to run away from overstimulating environments like college parties
    • gets bored by 'fun group dynamics' like 'roasting' people, partypooper
    • easily annoyed, exhausted easily in general
    • hermit

    Neutral
    • refusal to care about money, power, sex, and workplace position beyond basic survival needs, willing to let all of them go to pursue a more comfortable life
    • individualist, i hate hate hate the idea of "becoming one with the group", sounds like a bad orgy
    • unconscious unwillingness to view things from a grand narrative, rejects most narratives besides purely entertaining fictitious ones
    • "common sense" mixed with occasional zany and impractical moods


    edit: oopsies the complex bit slipped past my eyeballs
    The OG quadra complexes descriptions are a bit too word dense to be super-relatable but I guess I have from a very young age despised most large institutions and unjustified hierarchies. (which aren't really Beta btw they're more like an inter-quadra superevil) Certainly ties your hands in a very physical and symbolic way. I hate things that waste your time and bring no joy to the soul.
    Last edited by Cybel; 10-23-2020 at 05:56 AM.
    click, speeds growth..




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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    The quadral complex is a bit different from just overall shared quadral values and attitudes, but still a cool thread.

    For beta, the oppression complex. Forever I feel like a rebellious teenager lol. For example, I have a plan to leave my extremely toxic and abusive company (I found out yesterday) in a way that’ll really “twist the knife” for how they’ve treated a bunch of other coworkers of mine, and me before. As an actual teenager I was like this too. Once a (NF of some kind) teacher gave me a grade I didn’t think I deserved for something I worked hard on, and I dumped it into the recycling bin she was standing beside on the way out. It’s possible she was IEI, because strangely she seemed to like me more after this.

    I don’t like arbitrary, conservative social rules. For example, my LSI date was 5 minutes late, and I actually liked him more for it.

    Generally, I place a lot of value on being able to read the emotional atmosphere of situations, courage, foresight, and street smarts. I’m also into monochromatic symmetrical aesthetics (associated with Ti) that create a sense of awe (Se/Ni) so I like modern architecture and other such things.

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Comatose Lamiac 007's Avatar
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    Quadra complexes seem bit overstretched.
    Like ILI for instance really has hard time of keeping mouth shut when his balance is off. Then he cry/complains over other's actions when others do not see... pretty typical of him.
    This sort of closing their mouths seems to be hard issue for all gammas.
    So eh the context of application is not very well defined. This is strati stuff is more or less related to mission or hence I'd call it quadral mission complex.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

    Your life is too short to actually do anything useful with it without being wasteful.

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    I don't see much behavioural commonality at all. ILEs may use the same processors and filters but but because our priorities are opposite, the net result doesn't look the same. From an observer perspective, I have more in common with other Ijs simply because we share similar processing and priority structures.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    This topic is talking about these articles, right?

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...%20predominant

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya

    So. if we're going off the Alpha complex, I definitely relate to some of the descriptions. I do enjoy the freedom of a discussion where almost nothing is taboo. I can also be chatty and inquisitive in my element, though some people perceive me as argumentative. I would like to think I give everyone a fair chance and treat them with respect to their opinions.

    The only thing that bothers me is the hatred of secretive people. I will withhold my opinion if it leads to conflict. If bad news affects the group, I will mention it, but if the problem does not affect them, I would rather keep quiet. I would think this relates to -Fe, since it focuses on suppressing negative emotions, which is often my goal in most cases. I know I often feel awkward when people let loose with all the bad things that happened throughout their day. I would rather not subject others to my own negativity to keep the atmosphere lighthearted.

    Lastly, I do fear losing others' respect or having my voice silenced.
    I want to believe, therefore I question everything. I pursue the truth, therefore I eliminate all lies. I crave the ideal, therefore I defy the world.

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    Ok so what's the difference between a quadral complex and the characteristics that tie a quadra together?

    I don't see members of a quadra so much as having the same behavioral commonalities as much as they all have the same underlying.. attitude/belief. basically what Strat describes. it's so accurate imo..


    For myself some things are
    -i think i automatically split people into weak/strong
    -worst thing is to feel weak/helpless. idc if on the outside i seem weak but if i actually am.
    -i don't automatically respect authority, but i respect people with authority.
    -i have a strong aversion to being used if there's nothing in it for me

    @Cybel Thanks! I just want to know everything..
    yep, even if no one reads what i write, putting it into writing often helps me better organize thoughts ,or makes me realize things.
    I like the posts of people who simultaneously "theory-spout" and "observation/reality-spout" if that makes sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    I have already posted about this elsewhere -



    ...but yes, pretty much.

    it's like they plucked it straight from my mind

    The one in bigger font is interesting. Could you elaborate on it?
    Honestly, i've always thought delta has the "nicest" values x)

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    I personally live in a Quadra of my very own that combines all 4 of them.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
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    I think I relate to Gamma's complex in that I can totally not imagine something like that happening to me. I /don't/ want to imagine that. I prefer those to not exist. Yep, there is no possibility… Nobody would do this. This is impossible to happen. I mean… Or is it? And that way I know it's probably something I'm the most 'scared' about, the ones I prefer to keep out of my consciousness. If I think about them, it's like thinking about real monsters. It's the most disgusting thing, something that is hopeless and helpless. And it's absurd that I wouldn't realize things that are mentioned as being 'stolen' here. Those rules are given.

    Gamma Quadra plunges into despair when:
    - there is distrust towards their creative potential;
    - they are unable to defend their right to freedom of private initiative and enterprise, to freedom of choice of profession and free creative work;
    - when there is mistrust towards objective performance indicators of their business and creative success;
    - when by means of highly effective work/labor they cannot defend their right to free professional self-realization;
    - when they are unable to respond with a decisive and immediate action to an inflicted offense.

    Gamma Quadra feels afraid when:
    - their professional and work achievements are contested and questioned;
    - their their professional attainments and results are underestimated;
    - their professional capabilities to carry out some work are questioned (or when they are recognized as not having enough qualification and dismissed);
    - when they get pushed out of the project, from their favorite undertaking or activity, or not even allowed anywhere near it;
    - when they are denied the right to vocational training;
    - when their rights to professional and personal self-realization and fulfillment are being challenged.

    Everything that hinders their work, everything that stifles their activity and creative initiative, lies outside of any right-wise or ethical evaluations the "tyrant", the "despot" (which is how they view someone who limits their initiatives) does not have the right to appeal to fairness and justice, and cannot demand for himself any compassion, sympathy, and mercy.


    Gamma types are very demanding towards themselves, yet they poorly endure external control and supervision over them and their work. They can't stand having to report before someone. If close relatives or friends of the Gamma Quadra turn into "unbearably meddlesome fans", strictly control them, discuss their actions and work at every turn, create a frenzied hype, during which they inadvertently displace them from the sphere of personal and professional interests, Gamma Quadra may break off relations with them: the interests of activity/business are above all.

    The necessity to abandon favorite occupation for the sake of family (at the demand of the husband, for example) may serve as a cause of fracturing of family relations and a divorce. Gamma types are not always able to combine well their professional responsibilities with their personal and family obligations. There are often problems on the family front due to Gamma Quadra drive for work and activity, for the sake of which they may even leave their spouse (even dual one) rather than turn down their favorite occupation. To sit at home, with their hands folded, not being engaged in anything resultative and worthwhile – is the worst torture for Gamma Quadra types.

    Towards the society Gamma Quadra types have only one requirement: to be able to work from the heart and the soul – not out of fear, not from sense of duty – to work in supportive conditions for a decent wage or reward. The paradise for Gamma Quadrant looks approximately like this: peace, calm, favorable conditions and good, interesting work that would allow one to achieve the highest mastery in a favorite occupation.

    (On Gamma's Fi: Moral codex and bar of rights, framework of appropriateness, development of rights and moral norms that are necessary for successful well-coordinated teamwork, for successful creative self-realization under the conditions of free competition, for formation of beneficial partnerships, and so on.)


    1. "Democratic" trait (rational aspects are involutionary, with a minus sign; irrational aspects are evolutionary, with a plus sign: -Fi, -Te, +Se, +Ni)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to interact with others as equals 2) to strive towards maximally possible creative self-realization 3) to freely develop one's business and creative initiatives 4) to fight for equality in rights and possibilities to creatively realize oneself 5) to defend one's own right to freedom of action and to an adequate response by action 6) to have freedom for enterprise, for making decisions, and for defending one's own point of view.


    2. "Decisive" trait (predominance of evolutionary irrational aspects +Ni +Se)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to interact with others from position of power 2) to operatively, in condensed periods of time, solve problems, his own and those of others, making responsible decisions and making others obey them 3) to decisively defend one's own right to labor, right to freedom of entrepreneurial activity and freedom of choice of profession 4) to resolutely defend one's own point of view, to advantageously and operatively use one's own fighting qualities and particularities of the ongoing moment.


    3. "Objectivist" trait (predominance of involutionary logic of actions and ethics of relations -Fi -Te)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to trust their personal experience – professional, pragmatic, business experience derived from personal observations – and insist on one’s right to further act in accordance to it 2) to trust facts and to become persuaded by facts – to provide them as the main proof of one's correctness 3) to evaluate the situation by already transpired facts and to act in accordance with circumstances existing up to date, trusting one's own experience and one's notion of expedience of a particular course of action 4) to freely and resolutely demonstrate pragmatic initiatives coming from one's own base of observations, one's own personal and professional experience, and reasoning founded common sense, and at one's own discretion 5) to evaluate a person according to the level of his qualifications, based on facts of his professional training, attainments, and competence 6) to remove (or ask for removal) from work those who are inept and negligent, to push them out from work and projects 7) to fight for one's own participation in work or a project, for one's place on a working team, and to be able to defend it.






    Delta sounds somehow relatable (creativity and freedom, but more careful and comfy), beta complexes seem absurd (why should I care, who would even use those). Alpha seem to place their opinions above actions (and reject direct actions) and meddle everything in group dynamics/mechanics, which is honestly ughhh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homicidal Maniac 007 View Post
    Quadra complexes seem bit overstretched.
    Like ILI for instance really has hard time of keeping mouth shut when his balance is off. Then he cry/complains over other's actions when others do not see... pretty typical of him.
    This sort of closing their mouths seems to be hard issue for all gammas.
    So eh the context of application is not very well defined. This is strati stuff is more or less related to mission or hence I'd call it quadral mission complex.
    There is a difference here: ILI doesn't really have active hands often, being probably the most idle member of Gammas. It usually doesn't have that ability for real-great-Se-pushing-action. Instead, ILI speaks and directs, gives criticism. In this way, ILI's mouth is their hands. By closing their mouth, you tie their hands. On ILIs complaining: as mouth is their hands, they complain 'for someone to do something about it, this is not 'right' or okay because', they direct attention on 'what has to be done now'. ILIs need help in actually doing things, sans cases when they get really motivated by themselves (rare) and those are not about social things and other people.

    As for cries, hey also want to keep themselves and people dear to them from ill-will of others, so if they complain to you about something, it's more about 'I don't know what to do, I'm poor on Fx, what to do here', 'I need some creative help with this one, not even direct, be it taking action or convincing to refrain'. They need someone stronger, more powerful, but also way more balanced in Fx department than them (as it can go problematic, same with LIEs).

    So in a way Strati is not really 100% there, but it's more complicated.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Interesting complexes.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    My quadra complex is being in a unhappy marriage without enough money to buy whatever I want
    I see potential relationships everywhere

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    My quadra complex is being in a unhappy marriage without enough money to buy whatever I want
    This sounds like a serious problem. Lol.

    What is your plan to solve it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    This sounds like a serious problem. Lol.

    What is your plan to solve it?
    Finding a dual and starting a business LOL
    I see potential relationships everywhere

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Comatose Lamiac 007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    My quadra complex is being in a unhappy marriage without enough money to buy whatever I want
    Yeah. I once wanted to purchase the Earth but then realized I'm too pure for it. Living as a space cadet is tad bit nicer
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

    Your life is too short to actually do anything useful with it without being wasteful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homicidal Maniac 007 View Post
    Yeah. I once wanted to purchase the Earth but then realized I'm too pure for it. Living as a space cadet is tad bit nicer
    You can purchase the Earth on the deep web, maybe not original but It's round enough.
    Also living in space seems nice if you have a mommy dual LOL
    I see potential relationships everywhere

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    Quote Originally Posted by flames View Post
    I personally live in a Quadra of my very own that combines all 4 of them.
    At least you realize it.

    "Quadras" are self protective psychological boundaries. The walls we build around ourselves to differentiate "us vs them", which is supposed to be a beta quality. This is what I say to those that hide behind quadra values:




    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    In what ways do you see yourself viewing the world in the same way as your quadra does?
    Strat's quadra complex descriptions are quite bad, but in response to your question, I and other Alphas tend to see the world as something to explore and make better. We are easily amused by things and prefer to take things somewhat more lightly / not get offended. We prefer inclusive environments with open communication which is not too harsh .

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    Yes I do relate.
    I can accept and respect hierarchies like parents or God. I trust my personal experience and observations and act in accordance, also I like to discuss interesting topics and I want ppl to respect my opinion. I like the pursue of the highest spirituality, to choose the occupation of my preference, to develop and perfect abilities and talents, to get my sphere of interest and change them when I like and to get my own space. And yes, I see as shame when ppl don't like to work on themselves aka self improve. I think taking responsibility over oneself is a basic way to improve (as person) relationships.

    "Delta Quadra fears the destruction of all that they see as valuable, good, positive, wholesome and is afraid of people who destroy from feelings of envy and jealousy, out of their own inadequacy, or out of boredom, having nothing to do, "just because", "to have some fun in life".

    yes. I even get angry when ppl use violence against other humans or animals for the same reasons.


    "Becoming a hero, or a professional and specialist of the highest class in Delta Quadra is very respectable. But what gathers even more respect is to go beyond the permissible possibilities and to become a visionary, a prophet, a psychic healer, a miracle worker, or a saint."

    True. I like ordinariness of life but at this point I don't see human life just as the consecution of days without transcendence. This intrascendental way of seeing life seem to be the core of existential void and a the beginning of decadence, not few times ending in despair, cruelty or depravity.



    "For Delta Quadra, especially intuitive types, it could be painful to witness the intellectual, spiritual, moral and professional superiority of others - due to which he wishes to humiliate them, the more so the more this turns into real successes and advantages for them. Envy towards the success of others - is one of the most widespread manifestations of the Delta Quadra complex of "clipped wings": the fewer personal successes, the more ambitions and the more jealousy is aimed at the successes of another (the feeling of personal loses needs to be compensated for somehow)."


    yeah, I've seen this in Delta NFs. I even kinda ended up a childhood friendship due this. Somehow I felt uncomfortable for arising the secret envy or jealousy of this gf and ofc I didn't want to deal with her attempting to overcome me. Her creepiness provoked my guardness and made our friendship lose its meaning and spontaneity but somehow she was still managing to be a "friend" (funny, self sacrificial, generous, always there etc). I kinda became fearful of envy and avoided self advertising and publicity as much as possible, tendency that I keep struggling to this day. I wonder if this thing of comparing themselves or success to other ppl is something really necessary, helpful or worthy. It kinda remind me of the wage and comparison of privileges in Beta nf.

    Some ppl don't get quadra complexes but glad to see that ppl with few time in this site are interested in this.
    Last edited by Tommy; 10-31-2020 at 05:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsme View Post
    Bureaucrats are sterotypically rational STs, it is true that you will propably not see your typical SLE sitting at the post office or gouverment adminstration, LSI and LSE will be there on masse for sure though.
    I doubt it. The English translation for Ti is google translate lvl shit imo. Even Gulenko's book lmao (you'll notice when you read it, surprise its google tranlate) The right word for law here is: principles or logos. Ti types kinda want a grand unified theory of everything, to figure out the fundamental logic of existence. Bureaucracy is tedious, slow, ineffective and boring. I say this as an LSI. Burn it all down. A good system does not have many points of failure. Basic logic that even car manufacturers should know, but it seem they have forgotten.

    Also, LSIs tend to usually give a lot about Ti principles and the intigrety of their system, often combining both for it, but how and where this happends depends a lot on other factors, LSIs usually tend to be at the head of a lot of beurocratic gouverment structures but also do very well in organized crime. Everywhere where there is a system of relations to regulate and power to achive as a collective, they tend to feel at home.
    Idk about that, I was typed LSI by Gulenko & I'm a rather sterotypicval MBTI ISTP, complete with Ti-Ni loops, as they say the type that is on the edge between sensing and intuition.

    Elon Musk is LSI, Brad Pitt, Bruce Willis, Clint Eastwood, Steven Seagal, Alain Delon, Bill Clinton, Margaret Thatcher, Vladimir Putin.

    I keep seeing ppl equate LSI with MBTI xSTJ-ish tendencies, but that is simply down to bad translation.

    Even as LSI my base program is the defense and well being of my kith and kin. As the G. man's descriptions say: It can rightfully be called a quadra of passionaries. A passionate, according to L. Gumilev, is a person who is able to sacrifice much, even his own life, in the name of the struggle for an idea. Quadra Beta is the main supplier of selfless fighters and fanatics of all kinds.



    Beta Quadra doesn't tolerate:
    - confusion in the chain of command and subordinate relations;
    - departures from etiquette and protocol;
    - disrespect for position and rank - deliberately derogatory or humorously familiar attitudes;
    - infringement on their personal rights, goals, ambitions, desecration of their honor and dignity;
    - misconduct, disobedience, insubordination, disrespectful or unacceptable behavior within the hierarchy, society, system.

    Beta Quadra is afraid of:
    - having to part with their honor and dignity, a privileged position in society;
    - being plunged into poverty, to a position without rights, being lowered in rank;
    - being forced out of the privileged strata and thrown to the bottom of society;
    - being demoted, deprived of rank, title, privileges and powers;
    - humiliating reprisals and punishments;
    - dependency on someone else's evil will;
    - uncertainty concerning own social status and position, slander, libel, false accusations;
    - afraid of collusions and conspiracies behind his back, of rumors, gossip, backstabbing, intrigues and betrayal;
    - afraid of all that would obstruct him from surviving and restoring own social status under extreme circumstances.

    e_e crawl out of the muddy ditch inch by inch relentlessly and carve your way to the top again. That is the mentality. Giving up is for the weak and betas are not weak, not even IEIs (MBTI INFJs) to the contrary of some ppl's perception.
    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 10-31-2020 at 06:05 PM.
    LSI-H - - Melancholy|Sanguine - 6w5-8-4 Sp - LFVE MBTI ISTP
    Oldham's Sensitive & Vigilant Type

    When all beauty is tarnished, when all thought is profaned
    They'll cry out for men to invoke the iron rods again
    Now this our secret flame will illuminate the night
    And its sparks fly on the wind and set the world alight


  22. #22
    Itsme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I doubt it. The English translation for Ti is google translate lvl shit imo. Even Gulenko's book lmao (you'll notice when you read it, surprise its google tranlate) The right word for law here is: principles or logos. Ti types kinda want a grand unified theory of everything, to figure out the fundamental logic of existence. Bureaucracy is tedious, slow, ineffective and boring. I say this as an LSI. Burn it all down. A good system does not have many points of failure. Basic logic that even car manufacturers should know, but it seem they have forgotten.



    Idk about that, I was typed LSI by Gulenko & I'm a rather sterotypicval MBTI ISTP, complete with Ti-Ni loops, as they say the type that is on the edge between sensing and intuition.

    Elon Musk is LSI, Brad Pitt, Bruce Willis, Clint Eastwood, Steven Seagal, Alain Delon, Bill Clinton, Margaret Thatcher, Vladimir Putin.

    I keep seeing ppl equate LSI with MBTI xSTJ-ish tendencies, but that is simply down to bad translation.

    Even as LSI my base program is the defense and well being of my kith and kin. As the G. man's descriptions say: It can rightfully be called a quadra of passionaries. A passionate, according to L. Gumilev, is a person who is able to sacrifice much, even his own life, in the name of the struggle for an idea. Quadra Beta is the main supplier of selfless fighters and fanatics of all kinds.



    Beta Quadra doesn't tolerate:
    - confusion in the chain of command and subordinate relations;
    - departures from etiquette and protocol;
    - disrespect for position and rank - deliberately derogatory or humorously familiar attitudes;
    - infringement on their personal rights, goals, ambitions, desecration of their honor and dignity;
    - misconduct, disobedience, insubordination, disrespectful or unacceptable behavior within the hierarchy, society, system.

    Beta Quadra is afraid of:
    - having to part with their honor and dignity, a privileged position in society;
    - being plunged into poverty, to a position without rights, being lowered in rank;
    - being forced out of the privileged strata and thrown to the bottom of society;
    - being demoted, deprived of rank, title, privileges and powers;
    - humiliating reprisals and punishments;
    - dependency on someone else's evil will;
    - uncertainty concerning own social status and position, slander, libel, false accusations;
    - afraid of collusions and conspiracies behind his back, of rumors, gossip, backstabbing, intrigues and betrayal;
    - afraid of all that would obstruct him from surviving and restoring own social status under extreme circumstances.

    e_e crawl out of the muddy ditch inch by inch relentlessly and carve your way to the top again. That is the mentality. Giving up is for the weak and betas are not weak, not even IEIs (MBTI INFJs) to the contrary of some ppl's perception.
    Hmm, maybe there is a big difference between Perciving and Judging subtypes, one lsi i know is all about regulating the norms and rules of their surroundings and keeping the integrity of the system, doing almost everything they do by the book. (Normalzing 6 so/sp)

    I see how there is variation, still i do think that for a lot of 'more basic' or average LSIs their Type shows in some way of 'militant conformism' and obedience and enforcement of the rules of the system, including social and societal norms.
    But this could be a normalzing thing in general maybe, while i do think that seeking for an wholostic understanding could be a harmonizer thing too, because i do that too, also with the motive of taking care about my kin and lead them on a path of prosperity.
    So maybe a more Ni focused way of trying to 'harmonize', making your in-group content.

    Maybe who an LSI is loyal too depends a lot on instincts and enneagram - thank you for your input, i still have to get a clear cut understanding about the Se creatives and how their types manifest in different circumstances.

  23. #23
    shotgunfingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsme View Post
    Hmm, maybe there is a big difference between Perciving and Judging subtypes, one lsi i know is all about regulating the norms and rules of their surroundings and keeping the integrity of the system, doing almost everything they do by the book. (Normalzing 6 so/sp)

    I see how there is variation, still i do think that for a lot of 'more basic' or average LSIs their Type shows in some way of 'militant conformism' and obedience and enforcement of the rules of the system, including social and societal norms.
    But this could be a normalzing thing in general maybe, while i do think that seeking for an wholostic understanding could be a harmonizer thing too, because i do that too, also with the motive of taking care about my kin and lead them on a path of prosperity.
    So maybe a more Ni focused way of trying to 'harmonize', making your in-group content.

    Maybe who an LSI is loyal too depends a lot on instincts and enneagram - thank you for your input, i still have to get a clear cut understanding about the Se creatives and how their types manifest in different circumstances.
    I'm type 6w5 Sx/Sp. I prefer the underdog, have an us vs them mentality, I'm rather rebellious tbh, but not the way most ppl do it as in degenerate reactionary teenager behavior to spite one's parents. No no no, I actually think, read and formulate a logically coherent worldview, which I update with new information all the time. Legitimate authority that makes sense I won't rebel against, but if the system and authority is detrimental to my well being or worse detrimental to the well being of other ppl I care about, now that I will seek to understand and destroy / replace.

    The Sexual Instinct in the Six
    Symbols of Power and Connection. In the average range, Sexual Sixes develop physical strength, power,
    and/or physical attractiveness to feel safe. More aggressive Sexual Sixes rely on strength and displays of
    toughness that can resemble type Eight (“Don’t mess with me”), while more phobic Sexual Sixes use their sexuality
    and “coquettishness” to disarm others and attract support in ways that can resemble type Four. They mask their
    insecurities through open assertion and defiance of authority, or through flirtation and seduction.
    Sexual Sixes are highly aware of their physical attributes—for instance, spending time in gyms—although not for
    health reasons, but to enhance their strength and appeal. Sexual Sixes want to attract a powerful and capable
    mate, so they frequently test the other both to see if they will stay with them, as well as to give themselves time to
    assess the other person’s character and fortitude.
    Sexual Sixes are more openly defiant of authority than the other Instinctual Variants of the Six, especially when
    anxious. They are also the most doubting of others and of themselves. They can have explosive emotional
    reactions when their own insecurities are exposed or their connections with others are threatened. When anxious,
    they may assert themselves against their own supporters or third parties rather than at the true source of their
    anxieties. Attempts at sabotaging others, or undermining their reputations in various ways, especially through
    rumor-mongering, are typical.
    LSI-H - - Melancholy|Sanguine - 6w5-8-4 Sp - LFVE MBTI ISTP
    Oldham's Sensitive & Vigilant Type

    When all beauty is tarnished, when all thought is profaned
    They'll cry out for men to invoke the iron rods again
    Now this our secret flame will illuminate the night
    And its sparks fly on the wind and set the world alight


  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I'm type 6w5 Sx/Sp. I prefer the underdog, have an us vs them mentality, I'm rather rebellious tbh, but not the way most ppl do it as in degenerate reactionary teenager behavior to spite one's parents. No no no, I actually think, read and formulate a logically coherent worldview, which I update with new information all the time. Legitimate authority that makes sense I won't rebel against, but if the system and authority is detrimental to my well being or worse detrimental to the well being of other ppl I care about, now that I will seek to understand and destroy / replace.
    I can almost to a hundred percent identify with this paragraph. I type as a Type 1 sx/so, and usually do the same.
    I am still wondering how your LSI-ness does manifest then, propably more on a layer of behavior and the envoirment your prefer, since i can identify with most of the motivation and purpose you are stating, but not really with the Ti and Fe aspects of your prior posts. I do neither need a clear hirachy nor ti rules to follow, to me it is mostly Fi bonds that matter in this regrard.

    Maybe for values and motivations it is better to look at instincts and ennatype before type and quadra, not sure yet but from the ntr factors they more often than not seem to play a bigger role than it first seems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsme View Post
    I can almost to a hundred percent identify with this paragraph. I type as a Type 1 sx/so, and usually do the same.
    I am still wondering how your LSI-ness does manifest then, propably more on a layer of behavior and the envoirment your prefer, since i can identify with most of the motivation and purpose you are stating, but not really with the Ti and Fe aspects of your prior posts. I do neither need a clear hirachy nor ti rules to follow, to me it is mostly Fi bonds that matter in this regrard.

    Maybe for values and motivations it is better to look at instincts and ennatype before type and quadra, not sure yet but from the ntr factors they more often than not seem to play a bigger role than it first seems.
    There is hierarchy in everything, it does not need to be legitimized or properly understood to be present. I assume most ppl just don't see it. Lets say 3 guys gather, they are friends. There is a hierarchy among them even if neither one of them understands it consciously. It is how the world works. I guess Se types just understand this instinctively and Ti types like to define and explain these, because its part of how things work aka seeing logical fields between objects. How the ecosystem of a forest works for example or that of a city or simply how a car functions, how your body functions complete with how everything interacts, male dominance hierarchies and so on.

    Where there is a system and complexity, there will be hierarchy ans so on. It seems to me that the word hierarchy has acquired negative connotations as of late, but realistically speaking it can't be escaped as it is everywhere.

    Idk about values, when ppl ask about my values I have no idea what to point at specifically, I just understand how things work and how they can work better or why they are not functioning well and how to fix it.. including social systems. (Ti-Se)

    initially I thought I was intuitive, because of this, but as gulenko explained, its just Ti. As I explained to Gulenko I enjoy and generally do problem-solving & figuring out how and why shit works: stereotypical ISTP.

    (video contains socionics ITR between LSI & IEE as well as comparison to EIE and IEI)

    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 10-31-2020 at 07:37 PM.
    LSI-H - - Melancholy|Sanguine - 6w5-8-4 Sp - LFVE MBTI ISTP
    Oldham's Sensitive & Vigilant Type

    When all beauty is tarnished, when all thought is profaned
    They'll cry out for men to invoke the iron rods again
    Now this our secret flame will illuminate the night
    And its sparks fly on the wind and set the world alight


  26. #26
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
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    Regarding the quadral complexes themselves, I suppose I get annoyed if I or others can’t speak when we want to, but I don’t think this is at the level of a “complex”. I’m skeptical that quadral complexes are “a thing”; they seem more or less present in most people. Or perhaps their importance and effects are over-emphasized.

    Beyond that, I very much appreciate pleasant food and beauty. Food quality is something I don’t often compromise. I like to participate in or observe lighthearted conversations.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 10-31-2020 at 10:08 PM.
    Clicks speed growth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Regarding the quadral complexes themselves, I suppose I get annoyed if I or others can’t speak when we want to, but I don’t think this is at the level of a “complex”. I’m skeptical that quadral complexes are “a thing”; they seem more or less present in most people. Or perhaps their importance and effects are over-emphasized.

    Beyond that, I very much appreciate pleasant food and beauty. Food quality is something I don’t often compromise. I like to participate in or observe lighthearted conversations.
    I've never really felt like I was all that great at vocalizing or debating. I'm better at writing. But asking me to defend myself verbally in real time is difficult for me.

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    THings i relate to from the beta article

    -Everyone lives by the principle of "push and displace, so as not to get pushed out and displaced by others", which creates a particular kind of tension in the existence within the hierarchy
    -
    Beta Quadra fears that there won't be enough "sweet cake" for all
    -
    can't stand ridicule that could create false impression of their inability to fend for themselves.

    Beta Quadra is afraid of:
    - having to part with their honor and dignity, a privileged position in society;
    - dependency on someone else's evil will;
    - uncertainty concerning own social status and position, slander, libel, false accusations;

    -
    it is shameful and dangerous to be weak

    i actually think i believe this subonciously to a certain extent.. "
    To disempower the strong ("by hook or by crook" – if not by strength then by tenacity), to make the strong weak and push them out of the system – is the "easiest" method to deal with competition – the most "invisible" and "unobtrusive" way. The "guilty" one will be whoever is weak, not the one who has made him so."

    - On "Subjectivist" trait: Beta Quadra fears being subjectively accused – "recognized as guilty" on basis of a personal opinion, defamation, libel or slander, accusations of some real or alleged crimes or misdemeanors;

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