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Thread: Sadomasochistic qualities

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    Default Sadomasochistic qualities

    I think Strat characterizes beta duality to have the most sado-masochistic qualities, not that they are actually sado-masochistic though
    I am wondering if beta NF can be seen as having sadistic qualities.. it would be in the emotional realm. i think people mostly see it the STs as having those qualities, but I think it goes in both ways.

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    Masochism is objectively good, because there's infinite pain but finite pleasure in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    I think Strat characterizes beta duality to have the most sado-masochistic qualities, not that they are actually sado-masochistic though
    I am wondering if beta NF can be seen as having sadistic qualities.. it would be in the emotional realm. i think people mostly see it the STs as having those qualities, but I think it goes in both ways.
    It would be helpful if you would quote Strat on this, so we can see how its phrased and why.
    LSI-H - - Melancholy|Sanguine - 6w5-8-4 Sp - LFVE MBTI ISTP
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    It would be helpful if you would quote Strat on this, so we can see how its phrased and why.

    ok so like usual i misremembered, it's actually meged/ovcharov:
    It may seem that this dyad is distinguished by sadomasochistic tendencies. In actuality, the soft, soulful and sentimental TE (IEI) has a relaxing effect on FL (SLE) and, to a certain extent, suppresses his aggressive tendencies. In the case of a quarrel, the emotional reaction of TE (IEI) can be so original and unpredictable, that it forces his dual, who poorly orients in feelings, to soften and seek compromise. The image of a "victim" has a stronger effect on FL (SLE) than an equal and invincible enemy, who does not evoke compassion.

    in the Strat article about IEI-SLE duality
    Esenin will put up such a scandal that everyone will be put on their toes. As any intuitive type of the second quadra, the IEI is vengeful and rancorous. And add to that his confrontational and instigating qualities, and a subconscious tendency to sadism. (After all, the IEI in some ways is a "replication" of the problematic qualities of the SLE.) No, the IEI won't hide his fighter qualities, and will demonstrate them in full to whoever he finds necessary, at least for prophylactic purposes.


    it's for IEI-SLE but i think it's envisageable in beta rational duality as well

    it makes sense to me.. beta wants to find a partner that is strong and thus are constantly testing them (and themselves) in small ways, wants to find someone who can prove their strength and will do the same forthem

    i'm someone with a big heart but i sometimes get this urge to subtly hurt someone.. if they're being too nice to me, too permissive..
    i definitely don't relate to sadism/enjoyment of inflicting pain in the general sense of the term but when looked at like this i could see it. i wouldn't enjoy inflicting physical pain on anyone though

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    I think Strat characterizes beta duality to have the most sado-masochistic qualities, not that they are actually sado-masochistic though
    I am wondering if beta NF can be seen as having sadistic qualities.. it would be in the emotional realm. i think people mostly see it the STs as having those qualities, but I think it goes in both ways.
    I frankly don't get how it looks sado-masochistic, to me it's innocent fuckin around lol

    What kind of emotional sadism have you had in mind though, this interests me.

    Like, can you elaborate what (emotional) things you do/can do to "subtly hurt someone" as an IEI and esp why or how, when it's like "they're being too nice" / "too permissive" to you. I'd be interested in examples or like you described it about the Ni manipulations, that was a very good and informative post too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
    I frankly don't get how it looks sado-masochistic, to me it's innocent fuckin around lol

    What kind of emotional sadism have you had in mind though, this interests me.

    Like, can you elaborate what (emotional) things you do/can do to "subtly hurt someone" as an IEI and esp why or how, when it's like "they're being too nice" / "too permissive" to you. I'd be interested in examples or like you described it about the Ni manipulations, that was a very good and informative post too.
    thanks for indulging me, lol

    I think IEI is always pushing and pushing, looking for a person to fight back or stand up or something.. match them, put them in their place, someone who is "strong" enough to do so (it's really not that hard to put us in our place imo lol) basically, why do you let me get away with this shit? do you WANT me to do it?
    if the person doesn't do so, 1) push more and where (they think) it'll actually hurt so that the person will finally fucking do smth 2) eventually realize it's futile and stop. though I think, the exchange is typically more subtle than how it seems when it's written out like that, and most times it won't really be carried out cuz hopefully the IEI will realize it's not someone you can do this to, beforehand, because it will just hurt them. but sometimes the urge to just say the one sentence that (IEI thinks) will hit just the spot is so strong.. it's like, oh you won't call me out on it so then you deserve to hear it. if it is in fact carried out it will most likely backfire on IEI because the person will get hurt and lash out or something (or even worse, just get hurt and be sad), but not in the way IEI was trying to provoke, but what did poor IEI expect, lol

    oh and the "subtle" part is that usually what IEI says it not at all outrightly aggressive/mean. it's more tactfully done. just like the opposite of how i imagine an SLE would deliver insults. to us it's not really "insulting" because insulting someone is more one-way-- you get your words out, but do they hear it?

    could any other NFs add on to this? this is just my experience and i'd like some feedback
    also how could the beta STs be sadistic or sado-masochistic? i assume it's more physical, but honestly, in real life how does that pan out
    also i'd think that most betas may not immediately realize it in themselves because it's not a.. easily pin-pointable characteristic, just some subtle underlying attitude that seems like a given since it's all you've known

    well it goes without saying, anyone pls correct me if u think i'm wrong on anything

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    could any other NFs add on to this? this is just my experience and i'd like some feedback
    also how could the beta STs be sadistic or sado-masochistic? i assume it's more physical, but honestly, in real life how does that pan out
    also i'd think that most betas may not immediately realize it in themselves because it's not a.. easily pin-pointable characteristic, just some subtle underlying attitude that seems like a given since it's all you've known

    well it goes without saying, anyone pls correct me if u think i'm wrong on anything
    These basically sound like shit-tests.

    theoretically and from what Ive seen realistically most SLEs seem type 8 and they won't stand for disrespect, would shut you down as soon as they pick up on it.

    How I respond to this however seems to mislead people as there is a discrepancy between what I think, what I feel and how I respond to ppl. If I know you well and am comfortable with you I'll easily pick up on this even if it's subtle and bluntly put you in your place. IF you are new and I haven't figured you out yet I'll maintain a friendly and forgiving facade while trying to make sense of you, then make decisions based on the metal model I develop of you. I say its misleading, because I give off the wrong impression and ppl think they can get away with more than I'm actually going to allow them to.. and how I react will eventually completely blindside them. I need to work on not being so friendly from the onset tbh.. harmonizning smh.

    Idk if there is any sadomasochistic tendencies in this, to be fair I'm not the most tolerant person even if I give off the impression of being one.
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    They'll cry out for men to invoke the iron rods again
    Now this our secret flame will illuminate the night
    And its sparks fly on the wind and set the world alight


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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Masochism is objectively good, because there's infinite pain but finite pleasure in the world.
    Not true. You can get infinite pleasure if you know how.

    Too much pain will cause you to go into shock anyway I think.... So it's not an infinite possibility.

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