Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Great Expectations some stuff my business management class is going over

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    TIM
    LIE-Nisx/so1,3,6,or7
    Posts
    1,437
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Great Expectations some stuff my business management class is going over

    extant human capital locked up via fatalism



    and

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...98860500338534


    "Recent studies have documented that performance in a domain is hindered when individuals feel that a sociocultural group to which they belong is negatively stereotyped in that domain. We report that implicit activation of a social identity can facilitate as well as impede performance on a quantitative task. When a particular social identity was made salient at an implicit level, performance was altered in the direction predicted by the stereotype associated with the identity. Common cultural stereotypes hold that Asians have superior quantitative skills compared with other ethnic groups and that women have inferior quantitative skills compared with men. We found that Asian-American women performed better on a mathematics test when their ethnic identity was activated, but worse when their gender identity was activated, compared with a control group who had neither identity activated. Cross-cultural investigation indicated that it was the stereotype, and not the identity per se, that influenced performance." https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....467-9280.00111

    "When test administrators told women that that tests showed no gender differences, the women performed equal to men. Those who were told the test showed gender differences did significantly worse than men, just like women who were told nothing about the test. This experiment was conducted with women who were top performers in math, just as the experiments on race were conducted with strong, motivated students." https://www.apa.org/research/action/stereotype
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  2. #2
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    8,740
    Mentioned
    955 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Obviously, white men can't jump.

  3. #3
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,028
    Mentioned
    155 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    @nanashi I must sadly point out that so long as the reproduciblity crisis is a thing such (if not most all) studies cannot fully be trusted. "Science" has sadly become a mercenary affair. Throw enough dosh at a research journal and some scientist without scruples (a thing that few have without some form of "faith" I'd like to point out) and they'll back whatever BS you're trying to sling with "settled science" as it were.

    These conclusions fit well within the "narratives" being pushed by the PTB. Thus I am not at all surprised that the study ended up at the conclusions it did. I'll provide my counter to it. Most people on the high end of the Bell Curve couldn't give two shits about gender (or any other) stereotypical expectations. Perhaps that's my speaking but I only care about who can do a job effectively. Race, Gender, etc, are essentially the last thing on my mind. I don't care about anything else, lives are potentially on the line in any hypothetical, can you complete the task despite whatever factors may attempt to hinder its completion?

    I only seek the factual answer of "yes" and that it immediately be followed up by action that confirms that answer. Again, actual human/sentient lives are on the line. I don't give a shit if you're X, I only want you to save those lives. Sadly, we are ruled by mid-wits (and I'm holding a lot back on what else they certainly are). "Lives" are the last thing on their minds I'm sad to say. "Power" is all their kind care about, and if a bunch of innocents get killed because of their indiscretions, well, they were subhuman filth anyway so who gives a fuck?

    Despite what you may think, I actually do. It's but one of many reasons why I hate the PTB so much. They truly lack any form of empathy and apparently despise those who possess that "flaw" as they understand it. We ILI's only seem to lack it, but I can assure you we possess it in spades. Just because I did't cry at a funeral doesn't mean I didn't care...
    Last edited by End; 10-06-2020 at 06:06 AM.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    277
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post

    "When test administrators told women that that tests showed no gender differences, the women performed equal to men. Those who were told the test showed gender differences did significantly worse than men, just like women who were told nothing about the test. This experiment was conducted with women who were top performers in math, just as the experiments on race were conducted with strong, motivated students." https://www.apa.org/research/action/stereotype
    Lol, then marxist agitators should seriously start to shut tf up with their myth about suppression of women, because if you take this into account it seems to turn into a self fulfilling prophecy.

    Also i largely agree with @End on this.
    The mid-wit problem is the one that has to be truly adressed.
    We need to give them a way to feel statisfied about themselves and push their ego without them spewing bullshit that destroys the fundamentals of our society and civilisation.

    We found that Asian-American women performed better on a mathematics test when their ethnic identity was activated
    Also this study shows that white people will profit from feeling better inside their own skin being white, a push for white identarianism would give them the ability to self identify with being white more, which should raise their performance in nearly every kind of important acitivity if you take this study by face value.




    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Itsme; 10-06-2020 at 06:22 AM.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    TIM
    LIE-Nisx/so1,3,6,or7
    Posts
    1,437
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashi I must sadly point out that so long as the reproduciblity crisis is a thing
    "Although 52% of those surveyed agree that there is a significant 'crisis' of reproducibility, less than 31% think that failure to reproduce published results means that the result is probably wrong, and most say that they still trust the published literature."
    Think of stats...you can have a few attempts to reproduce fail without it indicating anything wrong...that's just probability.
    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashi

    such (if not most all) studies cannot fully be trusted.
    Yeah, nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashi"Science" has sadly become a mercenary affair.
    Nope. A lot of great science is still being done by passionate, dogged, ept, skilled scientists, depite their relatively low pay.
    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashiThrow enough dosh at a research journal and some scientist without scruples (a thing that few have without some form of "faith" I'd like to point out) and they'll back whatever BS you're trying to sling with "settled science" as it were.

    These conclusions fit well within the "narratives" being pushed by the PTB.
    I don't know what fearmongering acronym you're using here. I tried to look it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashiThus I am not at all surprised that the study ended up at the conclusions it did.
    That you're biased against multiple science studies and fear all scientists are being coerced or unduly influenced belies Occam's Razor. It's more likely these disparate people on different studies are just doing the science.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashiI'll provide my counter to it. Most people on the high end of the Bell Curve
    What bell curve? You're going to have to specify here what you mean. There isn't a THE Bell Curve.
    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashi

    couldn't give two shits about gender (or any other) stereotypical expectations.
    No. That isn't the case. Some of the most highly skilled and cognitively able people are involved as test subjects in studies like those I shared or have indicated that bias greatly impacts them. There's a great deal of eloquent work by people with incisive minds discussing this, and--it's no wonder. Having critical thinking skills and even unusually high intelligence has been linked to having HIGHER sensitivity in many cases and has also been linked to anxiety. In some cases, a great understanding of the world can mean an ability to see threat. The sometimes polite annihilation that is prejudice is a potent threat, as is scoring low on an exam for people who are attempting to pass it for access to a research posting or funding for post-grad work.
    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashi
    Perhaps that's my speaking
    Nope. That's not Te talking. Te-ego, here.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashibut I only care about who can do a job effectively.
    If that were actually the case and you weren't also worried about a conspiracy theory, you'd be interested in these many different scientific research studies SHOWING how to more EFFECTIVELY get human capital out of humans.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashi

    Race, Gender, etc, are essentially the last thing on my mind.
    If you cared about effectiveness, they wouldn't be the last thing on your mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashiI don't care about anything else, lives are potentially on the line in any hypothetical, can you complete the task despite whatever factors may attempt to hinder its completion?
    Lives can be on the line that people not burdened by hundreds of years of bias and prejudice would be less able to save. And, many people without those burdens might answer yes to your question without knowing their own limits or challenges.
    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I only seek the factual answer of "yes" and that it immediately be followed up by action that confirms that answer.
    So, you're going to interfere in a life-threatened situation to set up an eternal test scenario that double-blind and placebo examines the fitness of the person in an infinte number of situations to prove it?



    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    @nanashi
    Again, actual human/sentient lives are on the line. I don't give a shit if you're X, I only want you to save those lives. Sadly, we are ruled by mid-wits (and I'm holding a lot back on what else they certainly are). "Lives" are the last thing on their minds I'm sad to say. "Power" is all their kind care about, and if a bunch of innocents get killed because of their indiscretions, well, they were subhuman filth anyway so who gives a fuck?
    You seem very distressed over this. I think you may have an unnecessarily bleak and unsubstantiated view of heartless powerhungriness in the leaders you're thinking of.
    Research indicates a lack of nefarious intent in most people if I recall correctly.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  6. #6
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    8,740
    Mentioned
    955 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've known that expectations affect performance outcomes for a long time.

    I definitely benefited from being in advanced classes in school. I could turn in some junk and the teachers would give me the benefit of the doubt, while my friends in the standard track got no such consideration.

    The most glaring example that comes to mind, out of many, many examples, was my answer to the question on an economics final that asked "What is the marginal benefit of reducing prohibitions (tariff and licensing barriers) on imported drugs?" This question was probably asking me to compare the immediate and extended costs of producing medical products domestically or importing them.
    Well, I was both in the Honors Program (for particularly bright and accomplished students. Thank you, high taxes on industry to support my school) and was doing a lot of drugs at the time instead of studying economics, so I answered "Sweet dreams". I got credit for that answer. Lol.

    The thing that I have to watch out for is the reverse phenomenon, in which I decide that I'm not good at something and then, forever after, I'm not good at that.
    I once decided that I wasn't good at paperwork. There might be some low Se combined with unvalued Ti there, or I might just get bored easily, IDK, but when I expect to have to do routine paperwork, my mind absolutely shuts down. Integral calculus, no problem. Adding rows of numbers, get out of here, I'm blind. I can't see the paper.

  7. #7
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,028
    Mentioned
    155 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    @nanashi, PTB stands for "Powers that Be". The true rulers who lord over us, the people we don't exactly get to see or know the names of. If you think for a second our "elected" officials or anything like that actually run the show or that the concept of the richest and most powerful people all around the world might just have a plan is a "conspiracy theory" than I got a bridge in Florida to sell ya. You seem to place your "faith" in science. A truly sad thing as it really is as I said, a mercenary affair. Your "god" is up for sale to the highest bidder. Its dogma determined by the cynical golden rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules." The PTB have all the gold, and they hate you and thus, so does your god. Hates me too. Hates anyone who isn't them or on their side. They even hate those. The term "useful idiots" comes to mind.

    Any "official" peer reviewed studies getting published that go against the established narratives? I'd like to see those, but I don't. And the "fact" that less than 31 percent don't think that the failure to reproduce the results means it's probably incorrect? Where's the "science" in that? If I publish a study that states that Fluorine Gas doesn't react with metals and that the majority of others say that just because they can't seem to reproduce that result doesn't mean I'm wrong it still doesn't change the absolute fact that Fluorine Gas is one of the most reactive substances in existence and that it most certainly DOES react with metals. In a catastrophically toxic and exothermic manner I might add.

  8. #8
    BaruchJorgell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    ILI-H
    Posts
    47
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Excuse me to intrude, but how do you bear management lessons ?

    I had to take some a few years ago, and it looked like it was an aggregate of :
    -economic theory
    -thesaurus definitions
    -common sense
    -sometimes, soft sciences also

    In short, it didn't seem to be a new discipline but rather, a selection of elements that might (won't, most likely) be useful to the manager.

    I can't say exactly why, but I couldn't force myself to read the textbooks.

  9. #9
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    8,740
    Mentioned
    955 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BaruchJorgell View Post
    Excuse me to intrude, but how do you bear management lessons ?

    I had to take some a few years ago, and it looked like it was an aggregate of :
    -economic theory
    -thesaurus definitions
    -common sense
    -sometimes, soft sciences also

    In short, it didn't seem to be a new discipline but rather, a selection of elements that might (won't, most likely) be useful to the manager.

    I can't say exactly why, but I couldn't force myself to read the textbooks.
    Most “How to Manager” books are full of shit, cover to cover. You got a book, and they got your money.

    The few that can be helpful usually speak to one single type. Or perhaps only one single type (the author’s Identical) can actually understand and implement the advice. And not even your Identicals always have something to say that is actually useful to your present situation.

    In my own case, I don’t learn anything from books that tell me what I should do. I learn from books that tell me how to frame the problem.

  10. #10
    BaruchJorgell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    ILI-H
    Posts
    47
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Most “How to Manager” books are full of shit, cover to cover. You got a book, and they got your money.

    The few that can be helpful usually speak to one single type. Or perhaps only one single type (the author’s Identical) can actually understand and implement the advice. And not even your Identicals always have something to say that is actually useful to your present situation.

    In my own case, I don’t learn anything from books that tell me what I should do. I learn from books that tell me how to frame the problem.
    A professor I was helping gave me the advice, a few years ago, to leave my current field and to become a professor in management. According to him, it was very easy, very well-paid, and it would give me free time to write mathematics. But, the aforementioned problem quickly made me forget those prospects.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    TIM
    LIE-Nisx/so1,3,6,or7
    Posts
    1,437
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BaruchJorgell View Post
    A professor I was helping gave me the advice, a few years ago, to leave my current field and to become a professor in management. According to him, it was very easy, very well-paid, and it would give me free time to write mathematics. But, the aforementioned problem quickly made me forget those prospects.
    My current management psychology professor is an ENTJ, so this is quite timely and funny to see...
    I didn't take the class seriously at first because it's my lowest level one (only offered occasionally). I am noticing some things that help me reflection-wise on how I can complement my leadership style strengths. There's a lot I could do to mitigate ENTJ leadership fallout

    And a lot of management psyc is just strategy in the human realm...which is kinda what our whole forum here is about...so...I guess it's a smart thing to teach.

    I didn't see it as a worthy venture for myself because i was afraid of getting trapped in it and bored, but there's no shame in paying the bills if the work is useful to someone. Just gotta try to make it useful. etc

    cool you're doing math, too
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    TIM
    LIE-Nisx/so1,3,6,or7
    Posts
    1,437
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I've known that expectations affect performance outcomes for a long time.

    I definitely benefited from being in advanced classes in school. I could turn in some junk and the teachers would give me the benefit of the doubt, while my friends in the standard track got no such consideration.

    The most glaring example that comes to mind, out of many, many examples, was my answer to the question on an economics final that asked "What is the marginal benefit of reducing prohibitions (tariff and licensing barriers) on imported drugs?" This question was probably asking me to compare the immediate and extended costs of producing medical products domestically or importing them.
    Well, I was both in the Honors Program (for particularly bright and accomplished students. Thank you, high taxes on industry to support my school) and was doing a lot of drugs at the time instead of studying economics, so I answered "Sweet dreams". I got credit for that answer. Lol.

    The thing that I have to watch out for is the reverse phenomenon, in which I decide that I'm not good at something and then, forever after, I'm not good at that.
    I once decided that I wasn't good at paperwork. There might be some low Se combined with unvalued Ti there, or I might just get bored easily, IDK, but when I expect to have to do routine paperwork, my mind absolutely shuts down. Integral calculus, no problem. Adding rows of numbers, get out of here, I'm blind. I can't see the paper.
    So much this.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  13. #13
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    8,740
    Mentioned
    955 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    @nanashi, the best business book I’ve ever read is “Up the Organization”.

    It was old when I first read it (first published in 1970), but it is the only one that I ever found useful. I'm pretty sure that Robert Townsend was LIE. If he wasn't, he sure thought like I do.

    https://www.amazon.com/Up-Organizati...der_0787987751

    I think it was followed a few year later by a revised edition with added chapters that addressed the concerns of women in the workplace. "Guerrilla Guide for Working Women". You can find copies of both editions on ebay or Amazon.

    A lot of the writing is dated ("Computers and Their Priests" <- mainframe era), but the way to think about business is fully LIE.

    It even addresses workplace morals. (There is a chapter on Mistresses.) Very useful.

    Read it. Memorize it. Live it.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-06-2020 at 05:17 PM.

  14. #14
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,028
    Mentioned
    155 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Most “How to Manager” books are full of shit, cover to cover. You got a book, and they got your money.

    The few that can be helpful usually speak to one single type. Or perhaps only one single type (the author’s Identical) can actually understand and implement the advice. And not even your Identicals always have something to say that is actually useful to your present situation.

    In my own case, I don’t learn anything from books that tell me what I should do. I learn from books that tell me how to frame the problem.
    That is essentially the problem in most any circumstance. If we knew how to properly "frame" a given problem in such a way that the targeted individual would just innately "get it" as it were, well, we'd be hitting upon the same types of solutions in regards to "how to write a best selling novel" as it were.

    If any of us had that formula down in any remote way we'd already be world friggin' famous in most any field we sought to be as such in. None of us are sadly so we're still all grasping at straws most frustratingly.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •