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Thread: SEI angry outburst

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    Default SEI angry outburst

    Seriously, what the fuck? Can someone explain what was going on in her head?

    A female SEI was the leader of a group that I was once a part of. One day, me, her, my ESE exgf, a male, and a female LSE took a trip to Canada. We go to a park and start looking for parking. We spot a muscular looking dude reserving a spot. We pull up:

    "Hey let us park here."
    "No blah blah blah"
    "Blah blah blah"
    ESE gets angry. She sticks her body out the car. "You're not a fucking car!"
    "Hey, fuck you!" He starts to approach the car.

    I hastily made a plan of attack. I was gonna jump out the roof and...the male of unknown type, the driver, pulls away. After we get away, the SEI turns to me and yells at me in anger, "I'm disappointed in you!"

    ...I wrote a whole story detailing what had happened afterward but I deleted it. Long story short, after some time had passed I got really fucking pissed off and a couple of years later, as insanity started to take hold, I threatened to kill her. After a stint in the mental hospital, I got slapped with a restraining order. I haven't seen or spoken to the group since.

    What I wanna know is: what made her think it was okay to just yell at me like that? I can think of a few reasons why but I wanna hear from those who understand SEI better. I've scoured the MBTI message boards, this board and the wiki and the articles, looking for an explanation but nothing so far has satisfied me. This has been on my mind for a very long time.

    More details available upon request.

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    Was she angry because of something you did, or because you weren't active at all?

    Keep in mind that Socionics can't explain every aspect of interpersonal relationships.

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    Yeah, I wasn't being active. After she yelled at me, I told the group I was preparing to fight the dude if necessary. She didn't apologize. No one else acknowledged the outburst.

    I had quit my job a year previous. I had trouble finding another job. Maybe she felt that I wasn't pulling my weight in the group and that I could do more since I wasn't exactly doing anything else with my life. She did plan and organize a lot of the outings we had. There was another time where she had planned and organized an outing to a bar. We were suppose to meet her at a specific bar but an IEE lead us to another bar. Once we met up with the SEI, she was mad. I ended up getting mad and snapped at her LII boyfriend who just asked me a question. She didn't yell at me but it was clear she was not happy with me and was like "You need to learn how to drive." She had made fun of me for not getting my license before.

    Before I started to believe in socionics, I had thought it was a gender role thing. Me, male, in the role of protector. But she didn't yell at the driver.

    What was she expecting?

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    Just an idea here that maybe it would be worth you taking a look at the two of your zodiac signs to investigate that perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hays View Post
    Just an idea here that maybe it would be worth you taking a look at the two of your zodiac signs to investigate that perspective.
    Is this a joke? I don't believe in astrology.

    Also, I've already looked into it. I don't know the exact time she was born so I couldn't get an accurate natal chart. I'm being serious.

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    No joke, it was just an idea for Socionics cannot explain everything as relationships are extremely complicated.
    Such things as mental illness, the age of where one is in their life, experiences or lack of etc all come into play.
    There are strands of astrology worth taking note of which are usually summarised fairly well on most of the applicable websites that name strengths and weakness.

    Hope an SEI here can provide you with some insight.

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    1) maybe it was your body language: did it look like u were about to pull a knife out or something? bc THEN i can see why how that would warrant such a reaction

    2) she could just be immature: i don't understand why someone would yell at anyone in a situation like that unless they were deliberately endangering the ppl around them? and also like what were u supposed to do??? just immediately fly out the car and knock the guy out?? continue the argument in place of ur ex? do u think that's what she wanted from you? bc the best course of action would've been to just drive away anyways which thankfully u guys did lol

    3) she could also be mistyped bc: i can't imagine an SEI getting mad at someone for being "inactive" in that way as they're caregivers/mediators by default, meaning they would rather strive to reach an understanding instead of causing unnecessary fires. the only time they might start acting aggressive is if someone's encroached on their boundaries or have threatened their loved ones safety. i can also maybe see it if they were getting taken advantaged of but i don't think u were doing that

    also, those jokes of u not getting ur license were not very nice of her- maybe she thought u could handle it but still, kinda unnecessary unless she thought that would motivate u which ironically is kinda demotivating lol

    imo u should just move on from the whole thing and stop dwelling on it as dwelling never did anyone good. everyday is a new day with new ppl and possibilities so maybe just focus on that instead. in the end, socionics/mbti is still just a pseudoscience; it can't possibly explain everything about the human nature as ppl are way too complex. more importantly: behavior will not always reflect someone's true personality so she could literally be an ENTj in disguise and u would never know (not saying she is one btw haha)
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    Quote Originally Posted by moloko View Post
    1) maybe it was your body language: did it look like u were about to pull a knife out or something? bc THEN i can see why how that would warrant such a reaction
    No, I didn't look like I was about to pull out a knife. I don't remember what body language I was displaying but I was worried.

    Quote Originally Posted by moloko View Post
    1)2) she could just be immature: i don't understand why someone would yell at anyone in a situation like that unless they were deliberately endangering the ppl around them? and also like what were u supposed to do??? just immediately fly out the car and knock the guy out?? continue the argument in place of ur ex? do u think that's what she wanted from you? bc the best course of action would've been to just drive away anyways which thankfully u guys did lol
    Maybe she was immature. We were college age at the time. I'm guessing she was stressed out from the interaction. I'm guessing she wanted me to, at the very least, speak up. In the past, whenever I felt someone was being treated unfairly and I sympathized with them, I spoke up.

    Quote Originally Posted by moloko View Post
    1)3) she could also be mistyped bc: i can't imagine an SEI getting mad at someone for being "inactive" in that way as they're caregivers/mediators by default, meaning they would rather strive to reach an understanding instead of causing unnecessary fires. the only time they might start acting aggressive is if someone's encroached on their boundaries or have threatened their loved ones safety. i can also maybe see it if they were getting taken advantaged of but i don't think u were doing that
    No, I've accurately typed her. She's definitely in the alpha quadra. We called each other family. She called me her "brudder" (Not brother, but "brudder". Brother with a Hawaiian accent to it. Me, the ESE and the SEI once took a trip to Hawaii.) She's definitely an SF. And she's definitely not an ESE. That leaves SEI.

    Quote Originally Posted by moloko View Post
    1)also, those jokes of u not getting ur license were not very nice of her- maybe she thought u could handle it but still, kinda unnecessary unless she thought that would motivate u which ironically is kinda demotivating lol
    She made fun of me a lot. She has a sweet side but she rarely (twice) displayed that side to me. She was playful, we had fun, showed me affection in the form of gifts, helpful when I was in need of assistance, listened patiently to my problems, hung out with me when my gf wasn't available and I was feeling lonely, but sweet and (kinda) submissive? Only when I was confident. She said she liked confident guys. I rarely felt confident in those days.

    Quote Originally Posted by moloko View Post
    1)imo u should just move on from the whole thing and stop dwelling on it as dwelling never did anyone good. everyday is a new day with new ppl and possibilities so maybe just focus on that instead. in the end, socionics/mbti is still just a pseudoscience; it can't possibly explain everything about the human nature as ppl are way too complex. more importantly: behavior will not always reflect someone's true personality so she could literally be an ENTj in disguise and u would never know (not saying she is one btw haha)
    There is a lot more to the story I left out. I don't dwell on it as much these days as I have more pressing problems but it's always in the back of my mind.

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    My experience with SEI's is that they seem to have the most out of nowhere bursts of anger of all types, like textbook "straw that broke the camel's back" suppressed anger which comes across as more severe than it is due to how jovial and friendly they always are.

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    Yes, I have also seen the really nice SEIs I know have a (rare) flash of unexpected anger that is otherwise totally out of character.

    To explain, I know very well two psychologically healthy, well-adjusted SEIs and I have seen this anger rear once from each. With one, it was aimed with her daughter, as in "You are not pulling your weight as a family member and showing me the respect I deserve as your mother by bulking at what I just asked you to do". The other, directed towards me, "You are insulting my family who are beyond reproach." Not in any words, but with a look, a flash, so unexpected.

    The other two SEIs I know well are younger and way more psychologically messed up. Which is not uncommon these days unfortunately because our world is in a bad way and this is not a good time for anyone to be growing up. These times are psychologically damaging. There is a lot wrong, and far more people are hurt and angry than in any other time.

    --And on that point I will interject for you, Falk, that so many today are deeply wounded and cannot explain their wounds, only act out, responding to the pain of someone probing that wound, and often you can't find anyway to get the understanding of what the wound is that you disturbed. Because they want to hide them, it is too tender to share.** (see below)

    Back to my non-well-adjusted loved ones. One (female) SEI has been charged with assault twice now. Then I am not even counting the at least two times she assaulted LSI Grandma, who raised her). Well she is a MOST mild-mannered, kind, sweet, considerate and caring person, with long blond hair and big blue eyes, and a good heart. But she has psychological disturbances (I hesitate to say disorders because even though there have been official diagnoses, I disagree with them). With her it is hard to say what is nature and what is nurture. (I strongly feel a big factor is long time vegetarianism, as well as all the drugs LSI Grandma, who has total trust in the medical system, puts her on). The fights are not surprising as her Grandma can be rigid and domineering, and SEI is endeavoring to individuate. But SEI is not wise at all in this, and is naïve beyond belief at times. Not having grown up with her Dad (who was in jail when she was born) or seen him much until she turned 18, she has always been boy-crazy. She started young with crushes, and from early on it was one "boyfriend I am going to marry" after the other, in NON-STOP succession, most of them have had drug issues, especially the most recent ones, as she is now totally off the rails at 19. Anyway, the point is, her two charged assaults were little-her assaulting a boyfriend who had insulted her. The first assault, I heard her side of the story, and the messed-up boyfriend had truly insulted her. The second, it sure sounded like she was QUITE unreasonable, but I haven't heard her side yet. The one who called the police on her for assault was her longest-term recent boyfriend, a SEI, too. She had met him at an inpatient program she was in at a psych ward and he has issues with drugs and theft. But he is otherwise very sweet, nice, polite and mild-mannered (I just don't trust him!).

    Socionics is an EXCELLENT place to get understanding of why people do things! It won't solve the mystery of what particular wound causes a behavior, but it explains SO MUCH about your interactions with others. Astrology offers solutions too but not nearly so many as Socionics. I say this having good knowledge of both systems - and other systems. They all have their strengths but I think nothing comes near to explaining intertype relations to Socionics.

    You have your type right and those of your friends, and then Socionics has SO MUCH to teach you. I get the idea you have your own and their types right in this instance. Did you realize when you are out with the SEI and ESE that they are Alpha s they have easy natural understanding of each other, while you are Gamma, the Quadra they both have the LEAST understanding of?

    I sure would like to hear what @Adam Strange has to say to you about this because he is your dual and fellow Gamma. He has written here that he has cousins in the other 3 Quadra and the ones he always felt the most uncomfortable with were the Alphas. He also wrote about visiting an ILE coworker at his home, and meeting his SEI wife, and how at that dinner the SEI eyed him suspiciously from "hello", and the whole evening! So, you see, as an ESI, you are naturally an object of suspicion, before you even speak. So you don't know in your long friendship with SEI how often she has had to silently swallow her disapproval over your ways, when you had no idea!

    So it is hard to say exactly what raised SEIs ire at you in that instance, but it was certainly a situation where anyone's hackles would have been raised, in a raised, in conflict with a hefty stranger. She probably thought you did not make the proper contribution to "the group", a strong Fe value, while not being so much a Fi one. You were disloyal to your own group at that moment, in her eyes, especially becasue she was afraid. So she was disappointed in you; you let her down. It felt personal to you because the totally uncharacteristic flash of anger was all aimed at you. But even when someone aims their anger at you, it doesn't mean its all you, it is often their wound. Or, in this case, it also was mistrust between Quadras.


    _____________________________

    **Last night my husband and I watched on Netflix, free, "Saving Mr. Banks", about the real Mary Poppins (you can also watch it for 3.99 on Prime). What a worthwhile movie, and an example of someone's outside visible life being ALL centered on a deep (old) inner wound. I recommend this movie! You see the main character insulting everyone one around her. And it has nothing to do with those people. Likewise you will experience unfair insults of many in your life including those you thought were friends, or were "safe", as a result of their wounds being disturbed. And people don't always realize they have a wound that is disturbed,. They just feel irritated and think it is the fault of the person that irritated them.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
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    .
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    Maybe she was afraid of you attacking a random stranger, and the potential consequences of that, for them - for you...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    Maybe she was afraid of you attacking a random stranger, and the potential consequences of that, for them - for you...
    She had yelled at me before in a previous event. That was not the impression I got.
    Last edited by falk; 10-10-2020 at 07:49 PM.

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    Sounds like you were in a car with a group of people that like to roll around and get into fights. Why are you so worried what a group like that thinks of you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    Sounds like you were in a car with a group of people that like to roll around and get into fights. Why are you so worried what a group like that thinks of you?
    I'm not? My conscience bothered me because of what I did to her afterward. I just wanted to see things from her perspective. Also, if something similar were to occur, I could avoid a situation like that.

    I feel like I did nothing wrong now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    Seriously, what the fuck? Can someone explain what was going on in her head?

    A female SEI was the leader of a group that I was once a part of. One day, me, her, my ESE exgf, a male, and a female LSE took a trip to Canada. We go to a park and start looking for parking. We spot a muscular looking dude reserving a spot. We pull up:

    "Hey let us park here."
    "No blah blah blah"
    "Blah blah blah"
    ESE gets angry. She sticks her body out the car. "You're not a fucking car!"
    "Hey, fuck you!" He starts to approach the car.

    I hastily made a plan of attack. I was gonna jump out the roof and...the male of unknown type, the driver, pulls away. After we get away, the SEI turns to me and yells at me in anger, "I'm disappointed in you!"

    ...I wrote a whole story detailing what had happened afterward but I deleted it. Long story short, after some time had passed I got really fucking pissed off and a couple of years later, as insanity started to take hold, I threatened to kill her. After a stint in the mental hospital, I got slapped with a restraining order. I haven't seen or spoken to the group since.

    What I wanna know is: what made her think it was okay to just yell at me like that? I can think of a few reasons why but I wanna hear from those who understand SEI better. I've scoured the MBTI message boards, this board and the wiki and the articles, looking for an explanation but nothing so far has satisfied me. This has been on my mind for a very long time.

    More details available upon request.
    an IEI was frustrated with me at a stop light when I started opening my door to confront the car of men harassing someone in the crosswalk. It's a sign the XEI a)felt abandoned by you, someone they care about b)felt they couldn't trust you to look at the danger you're putting them in c) felt you were negligent in looking for a better method and d) were reacting on impulses and scared them.
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    I can see a) but not the rest. I wasn't the one who provoked the man and I wasn't the one driving so b) doesn't fit. c) I could see but again, the driver drove away and the SEI yelled at me before I explained my intentions d) my reaction was internal. Not externally obvious. My intention was to defend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    I can see a) but not the rest. I wasn't the one who provoked the man and I wasn't the one driving so b) doesn't fit. c) I could see but again, the driver drove away and the SEI yelled at me before I explained my intentions d) my reaction was internal. Not externally obvious. My intention was to defend.
    Oh, I thought it was external.
    In this other case, I'd say maybe she was nonsensical gender role expectations? and that she was wanting you to act in an unreasonable way maybe? but what she thinks isn't the end all be all.
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    SEI's supposedly tend to have sudden outbursts. So yeah. Check model G. Also process types tend to show nicer face in public in comparison to private settings which is reversed by result types. So result types expect better treatment than they are used to while process types are prepared for private escalations in advance so they expect worse than they see at first
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    Some SEI women maybe expect 4D Te and Se role protecc and attack type shit. She was probably also feeling scared and hysterical in the moment. It’s probably semi normal for her, which is why all your other friends just brush it off. They seem to take her immature, entitled reactions for granted.

    Don’t joke that you’re gonna kill people though lmao, that’s obvious juvenile illegal shit. Should’ve just talked to her privately about it if its a big deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    What I wanna know is: what made her think it was okay to just yell at me like that?
    Probably it was a misunderstanding due to Fe vs Fi differences. Combined maybe with NTR stuff like having a volatile personality.

    I'm assuming for you as an Fi leading type this moment represented a turning point in the friendship because it was her saying she feels differently about you/ lost respect for you. So the relationship was altered, she judged you as doing something "bad" and you felt that this was undeserved. And all this sends Fi into a tailspin.

    For her as an Fe creative, she was probably just expressing emotions in the heat of the moment. Maybe she was panicked because she felt she was in danger and she coped by blaming someone (you) for what happened. People can do and say irrational things when they are scared. An Fe creative person's mood is very flexible and can be up and down like a yoyo if they're unhealthy. Alpha quadra (especially irrational types) are quite non-serious in their relationships with others compared to Gamma. They have a lot of petty drama where they quickly make up or forget about it later. It's likely you took it more seriously then she meant it.

    If a friend treats you in a way you're not okay with, why not just address it directly with them rather than letting it eat you up inside for years? It's not worth compromising your mental health.

    The brain holds on to unresolved pain until it can be resolved, to prevent bad things from happening again. It sound like this situation really hurt and confused you so you became obsessed with it. Writing about the experience in detail in a journal can give you closure. Here is a video about this: https://youtu.be/RoGdMpdZXzs?t=464

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    SEIs do have sudden outbursts, especially if they don't have some Ti-around and/or are 'immature'


    (ILIs are triggering SEIs, unfortunately, all year round)

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    Honestly Falk, think back, what did you do that made her yell at you like that? You story basically says nothing about that. So either she was totally wrong in what she did to you, or she had some reason to yell at you?

    What do you think that was?

    No reason to yell at you for that guy making you all uncomfortable. Fe+Si is about deescalating if things are making everyone uncomfortable. The mediator? Attacking that person would also make you the bad guy, not just the muscle dude. You needed to be put in your place again.

    Its weird the way the mind finds these trespasses then holds onto them for years. It turned you into the very person you thought she was when she made you feel that way. That's why you tried to put them in their place. Its time to move on, you can't win them all. Two wrongs do not a make a right. There is no satisfaction in poorly executed revenge. Just be better than them and someday you will be.

    I've had similar issues over the years with root misunderstandings and unfair treatment. But I'm better then them and that degree of integrity is what drives me on. Take the lessons it brought, learn what you have to, and delete them forever. Don't let them torture you from afar through your own mind.

    Easier said then done. My blood boils with anger in the middle of the night too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibiscus View Post
    If a friend treats you in a way you're not okay with, why not just address it directly with them rather than letting it eat you up inside for years? It's not worth compromising your mental health.
    Because I already was in the beginning stages of my mental illness.

    Quote Originally Posted by raTG13 View Post
    What do you think that was?
    I can think of a reason.

    Anyways,

    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    I feel like I did nothing wrong now.
    Meaning this incident no longer bothers me.

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    Yeah my SEI dad would have sudden crazy outbursts around people he knew well, seemingly out of nowhere. I've never seen a stronger anger than SEI anger. I think they get hurt when you disrespect the Fe atmosphere that they're trying to uphold, but when it happens they usually brush it off and don't say anything, internally bottling up how they feel about it. Then you get to an incident where the straw breaks the camels back, the Fe facade breaks and their true feelings come pouring out in what is like a cataclysmic event to them.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    SEIs are defensive by nature and will sometimes react in a knee-jerk fashion if they perceive physical threats but anger isn't normally their first reaction unless they were raised that way. However, I've met more than a few ESIs who would provoke heated confrontations when they weren't getting their way.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Rusal's Avatar
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    SEIs can also be viewed as the instigators if the people characterizing them are from other quadras. I’ve spoiled relations with other people because I thought I was “expressing a point of view” and they received it as hostile, for reasons I couldn’t understand. Never about petty personal matters, usually politics, so it can’t be said I was attacking anyone. Maybe in a different group what I was saying would’ve been just another point of view, but I got told things like I raised my voice too much or that I didn’t let go. That is classic alpha.

    OP, “I’m disappointed in you” is such a dramatic phrase. She was either spekaing in jest to tease you or, more likely, letting out was she had been bottling up, so her true reasons might as well be forever unknown.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

  27. #27
    ⚢ Ψ^(`∀´#)↝ object class Euclid Cybel's Avatar
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    Most SEIs do that typical 9w1 thing where they repress their anger to preserve the "mood" up until the very last second, where they burst. It is pretty rare, most people here probably have never seen that side of SEI. Falk experienced the volatile SEI under stress, different from the dam bursting but the explosiveness is the same. But when they get angry for real it's piss-in-your-pants scary. Probably the most terror inducing out of the entire socion tbh. They get hysterical, yet so so cold. My mom was this type, the upside is that she went back to her normal mood pretty fast. You just have to make her laugh, which is pretty easy. There's probably a deep Socionics reason for this, but bottom line you don't want to consciously make an SEI angry, trust me.

    edit; i have always thought of Socionics as a form of the Law of Equivalent Exchange

    the principle that limits alchemy's infinite potential. It's a simple concept: something cannot be created from nothing, and so in order to obtain something, something else of equal value must be lost.

    My mom was a very very kind and gentle person. Most SEIs are. Everything must have a sacrifice, and hers was an uncontrollable rage, with some unpredictable triggers. On the other hand I don't give a flick about preserving any mood, I say "no" rather easily and can admittedly be pretty rude on a surface level. The benefits though are that even at my worst in terms of anger, I have always preserved a level of control over the situation. More stable mood. It's not as pent up.
    Last edited by Cybel; 10-13-2020 at 05:32 PM.
    burrito bitch​

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    Meaning this incident no longer bothers me.
    That's good. Yeah with Fe sometimes you do something and its like you killed a baby and beat some kittens with a bat. The reaction is that stupid.

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