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Thread: ESTj women and work

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    Default ESTj women and work

    So I've met a young female ESTj that I find attractive. I want to hang out with her outside of work hours but she says she's really busy with work. Am I shit out of luck?

    Feel free to discuss ESTj women and work in general. I find them to be hard workers but willing to relax in ways that I don't find irritating.
    Last edited by falk; 09-20-2020 at 12:45 AM.

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    Hard workers. Usually managers of people, organizing people. Like to keep someone around who can help work be less boring/mundane/predictable. Doesn't put up with any bs. Proactive. Always running around doing something. Busy busy busy. Sometimes frantic like they are managing their stress levels all day. Can be workaholic, pulling crazy hours a week. Sometimes no life outside of work. Work hard all year and then go on an expensive vacation or to some expensive event types. Direct, will yell if they have to. Has to do the thing their way or the way they were told, needs proof from higher ups if there is a change in procedure. If not a manager will be a co-worker-manager. Actually will tell you how to do your job even if not a manager.. Professional smiles.

    Don't think you're SOL, they probably are really busy, try to get them when they are not so busy.

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    My mom is LSE. I don’t know how LSE are when not single, but my mom had a pretty clear plan of what she wanted to do in life pretty much since she was a teenager. She married my dad who’s SLI at 19 and he was 23. They both wanted to have children and build a life together, wanted to own property, make a lot of money, travel. My mom didn’t become a workaholic until I was 11 because by then she felt like I could be on my own sufficiently. My mom went through a lot of hell both with my dad and life in general and didn’t complain about any of it. I think the closer you are to an LSE, that’s how you know you’re tough enough for them to consider you their equal. Otherwise, they like taking care of others because they think it’s their duty.

    I don’t think you’re SOL. I think you have to work hard to go after her and be sure that you want her. You have to show you’re serious with your goals and plans and carry them out so she sees that you’re reliable. LSE don’t want to take chances on something that’s not the sure thing. That’s the main thing both my parents nagged me about- setting goals and achieving them.


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    Today was the 2nd time I mentioned hanging out with her. I told her that I am open to hang out whenever she has free time. She just graduated from college, has a full time job and volunteers for an organization. Today she mentioned she had something to do with her parents. I don't see her being free for a while. I don't know how she feels about me. She says she trusts me but she said that in a way that sounded like she didn't fully trust me. Like the semi-dual description said, conversation isn't boring, which is a reason I want to hang out with her. I'm hesitant to be more aggressive with her because I don't want to offend her. What I want is to have me in mind whenever she's free to socialize.

    I think I've done what I can. I guess I'll have to wait. :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnatchYourWeave View Post
    My mom is LSE. I don’t know how LSE are when not single, but my mom had a pretty clear plan of what she wanted to do in life pretty much since she was a teenager. She married my dad who’s SLI at 19 and he was 23. They both wanted to have children and build a life together, wanted to own property, make a lot of money, travel. My mom didn’t become a workaholic until I was 11 because by then she felt like I could be on my own sufficiently. My mom went through a lot of hell both with my dad and life in general and didn’t complain about any of it. I think the closer you are to an LSE, that’s how you know you’re tough enough for them to consider you their equal. Otherwise, they like taking care of others because they think it’s their duty.

    I don’t think you’re SOL. I think you have to work hard to go after her and be sure that you want her. You have to show you’re serious with your goals and plans and carry them out so she sees that you’re reliable. LSE don’t want to take chances on something that’s not the sure thing. That’s the main thing both my parents nagged me about- setting goals and achieving them.


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    Yes, I can see that. I did have an ESTj friend that was also a woman. She was very goal oriented.

    My intentions with her aren't serious. Talk, maybe smoke some weed, see if she's open to making out or something.

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    I honestly don’t think that’s a good way to approach. They’re not likely the ones to come back to you and say “ok I’m free now!” You have to catch them and get them to make time for you. FYI You can’t pressure them because they don’t feel pressure or obligation if you’re not family or really close friends.

    My dad asked my mom 42 times to go out on a date before she accepted. I thought maybe that’s a weird thing between my parents but maybe not. LSE have suggestive Fi and do want to feel like they’re needed. My mother told me many times that I should only get with a guy who needs me more than I need him. I’ve talked to some LSE females around my age and they want someone who keeps up with them, match in energy and then some and they like a guy to be persistent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    Yes, I can see that. I did have an ESTj friend that was also a woman. She was very goal oriented.

    My intentions with her aren't serious. Talk, maybe smoke some weed, see if she's open to making out or something.
    Lol if that’s the case, nah you’re not good enough. Why you want someone like that? You’ll only bring her down.


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    Ouch. I have things to offer even if they aren't ideal. Smoking weed is how she relaxes.

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    I'm open to change the plans. All that matters to me is the Fi connection.

    Edit: I want the Fi connection but I'm not willing to be in a long term commited relationship. I guess I'll just have to forget it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    I'm open to change the plans. All that matters to me is the Fi connection.

    Edit: I want the Fi connection but I'm not willing to be in a long term commited relationship. I guess I'll just have to forget it.
    I'm not LSE; I'm LIE, so I don't know if this applies: I like things to be very straightforward.

    Are you as busy as she is? if not, it can seem like longer than it is when you're waiting.


    also...if you don't want anything serious, tell the Te-ego that. And explain VERY literally what you're interested in and what you're not
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    I'm not LSE; I'm LIE, so I don't know if this applies: I like things to be very straightforward.

    Are you as busy as she is? if not, it can seem like longer than it is when you're waiting.


    also...if you don't want anything serious, tell the Te-ego that. And explain VERY literally what you're interested in and what you're not
    I keep busy with hobbies and work. I'm not working towards any specific career goals at this moment. Like how literally? "I see us getting along really well but I'm not looking for anything anything serious. I want a relationship for x amount of months then we'll evaluate our relationship after x amount of months has passed. I also really want to touch your butt."

    Edit: she did once mention that she was lonely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    I keep busy with hobbies and work. I'm not working towards any specific career goals at this moment. Like how literally? "I see us getting along really well but I'm not looking for anything anything serious. I want a relationship for x amount of months then we'll evaluate our relationship after x amount of months has passed. I also really want to touch your butt."

    Edit: she did once mention that she was lonely.
    I'd want even more frank. "This is what I want to do in a relationship: (...)"

    'Relationship' is vague to me.

    But I'm gamma. I'm not exactly like an LSE
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    I keep busy with hobbies and work. I'm not working towards any specific career goals at this moment. Like how literally? "I see us getting along really well but I'm not looking for anything anything serious. I want a relationship for x amount of months then we'll evaluate our relationship after x amount of months has passed. I also really want to touch your butt."

    Edit: she did once mention that she was lonely.
    Also, I now have to point out you've said you want two mutually exclusive things.

    A) you don't want anything beside a makeout and weed sesh.

    B) you want a relationship and then to evaluate staying together for longer as a real possibility.


    Those are mutually exclusive. That would be unclear to me.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Okay. I feel an explanation is in order so I'm not seen as a stupid fool who doesn't know what they want.

    I keep an eye toward the future and right now the future is very uncertain. I am currently in a vulnerable position right now with my future on the line.

    Depending how the election plays out, I could be facing a fate worse then death. If things turn out well, yeah sure I would like a short term relationship with the possibility of something more. If things don't, I would like to smoke weed with her and just make out. Does that make more sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    Okay. I feel an explanation is in order so I'm not seen as a stupid fool who doesn't know what they want.

    I keep an eye toward the future and right now the future is very uncertain. I am currently in a vulnerable position right now with my future on the line.

    Depending how the election plays out, I could be facing a fate worse then death. If things turn out well, yeah sure I would like a short term relationship with the possibility of something more. If things don't, I would like to smoke weed with her and just make out. Does that make more sense?
    you didnt seem like a stupid fool.

    and your explanation is important
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Base T prefer reasonable plans. If they are interested - it's possibly to discuss the time for a meeting.
    Just to offer something mb rejected as they are planed something other already. They should to have a plan for resting time too, which you should to know from them.

    Also Te/Fi types do not like harsh talking alike "shit out of luck". To talk politely and softly will be perceived better.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    I don't speak harshly around her. I am polite. I have had a previous experience with an ESTj where I was made a blunt (and possibly rude) comment about her taste in men. She later said she wanted to punch me in the face.
    Last edited by falk; 09-20-2020 at 02:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    I guess I'll have to wait. :/
    or move on. Perhaps this girl simply isn't into you.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    or move on. Perhaps this girl simply isn't into you.
    Yes, I have thought of that possibility. But when I asked her the first time to hang out, she first replied maybe, which leads me to believe she's at least open to the idea. Also, if she really values directness, I feel like she would've out right said no. Also, ESTjs aren't cowards. She wouldn't be afraid of outright rejecting me. I know a lot of women try to let men down easy to avoid any potential anger from the man thet are rejecting.

    The possibility of her saying yes is still there. But I'm not attached to her. I'll move on for now.

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    BTW, did you literally ask her to 'hang out with you'?
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    I don't speak harshly around her. I am polite. I have had a previous experience with an ESTj where I was made a blunt (and possibly rude) comment about her taste in men. She later said she wanted to punch me in the face.
    well, and it seems presumptuous and petty and self-interested to talk about it when you are a man, as though you have an ulterior, selfish motive.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Yes. I used the words "hang out." I specifically avoided using the word "dating" because a) I wanted things to be low key. B) we only talk for a half an hour at a time, once a week, at the end of her tail end of her shift. We don't live in the same neighborhood so that would probably be the best time to spend time together. c) I don't do dinner dates on the first date. D) what else kind of date can I do with the virus out there?

    Why do you ask? Do you think she would have been more receptive if I used the word "date"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    well, and it seems presumptuous and petty and self-interested to talk about it when you are a man, as though you have an ulterior, selfish motive.
    Eh? I don't understand. Talk about what?

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    I ask because LSEs are often serious people with serious agenda's. Next time you are having an interest in such a girl, tell her that you really would like to get to know her better, then offer to buy her a drink. The underlying message you will be sending out, is that you consider her 'relationship material', instead of something of a less serious nature. It will demonstrate purpose and a goal. 'Hanging out' could mean anything, including you trying to get into her panties on a one-night stand.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I ask because LSEs are often serious people with serious agenda's. Next time you are having an interest in such a girl, tell her that you really would like to get to know her better, then offer to buy her a drink. The underlying message you will be sending out, is that you consider her 'relationship material', instead of something of a less serious nature. It will demonstrate purpose and a goal. 'Hanging out' could mean anything, including you trying to get into her panties on a one-night stand.
    Okay.I see.

    I don't drink. That's why I wanted to smoke weed with her. But that's a minor detail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    Eh? I don't understand. Talk about what?
    to talk about men someone has chosen to date and shit on the choices makes it seem, since you are a hetero or bi man, like you may be trashing someone because you want to be the man she dates
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    you weren't expressing friendly concern by asking a question. You just threw it out there and shat on them and her past choices. it can be insulting to them or her or both.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    I recognize that was shitty thing to do. I was definitely not healthy when I said that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    Okay.I see.

    I don't drink. That's why I wanted to smoke weed with her. But that's a minor detail.
    'Drink' could also mean a cup of coffee. But never mind, I'm afraid that these 'minor' details are a bit of an obstruction in your way ;-)
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    I wouldn´t second guess Te doms too much. In my youth, I also told told some attractive women I didn´t have time for them because I was busy with training and college. Was not a move to make them more interested - even tho some thought it was. Ask again and make it clear, if she is interested she will find some time sooner or later
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    Today was the 2nd time I mentioned hanging out with her. I told her that I am open to hang out whenever she has free time. She just graduated from college, has a full time job and volunteers for an organization. Today she mentioned she had something to do with her parents. I don't see her being free for a while. I don't know how she feels about me. She says she trusts me but she said that in a way that sounded like she didn't fully trust me. Like the semi-dual description said, conversation isn't boring, which is a reason I want to hang out with her. I'm hesitant to be more aggressive with her because I don't want to offend her. What I want is to have me in mind whenever she's free to socialize.

    I think I've done what I can. I guess I'll have to wait. :/
    What do you want out of this relationship?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    What do you want out of this relationship?
    Oh you missed my story in chat.

    I want to touch her butt. She has a nice butt.

    I'll make a new thread about it when I get home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    Oh you missed my story in chat.

    I want to touch her butt. She has a nice butt.

    I'll make a new thread about it when I get home.
    weird
    sounds lacking in any spiritual depth
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    weird
    sounds lacking in any spiritual depth
    I was being facetious. I'll explain when I get home.

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    But seriously I do like her butt.

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    If she's dissing you it means she doesn't find you attractive. An LSE who finds someone attractive will go and see them or pull them aside at work and give them their attention.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    If she's dissing you it means she doesn't find you attractive. An LSE who finds someone attractive will go and see them or pull them aside at work and give them their attention.
    dissing? I dont think she's dissed him
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  38. #38
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    dissing? I dont think she's dissed him
    ignoring and brushing off or to the side
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  39. #39
    shitposter extraordinaire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    If she's dissing you it means she doesn't find you attractive. An LSE who finds someone attractive will go and see them or pull them aside at work and give them their attention.
    She hasn't dissed me. Whenever I strike up a conversation, she is receptive. Not at all dismissive. She hasn't displayed any of the behaviors you mentioned but I chalk it up to her being busy with customers all day. Like I said before, we talk for a half an hour at the tail end of her shift. I don't I interrupt her when she needs to concentrate on a task. I am perhaps overly sensitive to any signs that she wants to be left alone. When she's in a bad mood, I don't talk to her. I haven't been offensively blunt, rude or have displayed any negative qualities associated with Se.

    I am very confident that I'm physically attractive. I am not model handsome or Chad Thundercock but several women (not related to me) have called me cute, handsome and even pretty. I'll post a picture up in the relevant thread. I am confident she at least finds me cute.

  40. #40
    Ania's Avatar
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    Just a possibility don’t take it as my read on your situation but 1D Fi types can find you attractive but still shut down any possibility of developing feelings for you and therefore not have any interest in despite finding you attractive. Especially if the Te lead might see practical foreseeable issues.

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