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Thread: Genetic theory of type

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    Default Genetic theory of type

    My theory is that what we call J/P types is actually different species of people and what we know is that different species of people did exist and with migration people did meet, had wars and interacted with different species. This should come to light with genetic testing
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    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    ...? J/P are as distinct as are say H. sapiens with H. Neanderthalensis for instance...? Is that what you are saying though? Why?

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    My theory is that what we call J/P types is actually different species of people and what we know is that different species of people did exist and with migration people did meet, had wars and interacted with different species. This should come to light with genetic testing
    Yes, it's interesting. The jungians talk about how S and N are the most primitive functions. Rational functions developed later.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    ...? J/P are as distinct as are say H. sapiens with H. Neanderthalensis for instance...? Is that what you are saying though? Why?
    There’s evidence of several species of humans in our dna so yes that is a rough example
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
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    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    different species of people is which trust to nonsense alike your type as EII and which do not
    Last edited by Sol; 09-19-2020 at 12:16 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I expect sol to make a statement that shows very low IQ and almost no real and significant knowledge in this matter and ultimately speak with authority which he does not possess
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    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
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    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    don't know what is said in USA schools today
    different species are beings which can't to have kids or reproductive descendants

    to claim something about genes you need many of cases. and nice to have a theory to explain that, though for this would be useful to have education in genetics

    It can be supposed an equal quantity of J/P types, same as for 3 other dichotomies (though, with T/F in sexes is lesser clear). There is nothing still to assume J/P as a special dichotomy. And nothing to be assured in what is the reason for a type to appear. It needs stats for parrents and kids types.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Sol is right that if we were different species we wouldn't be able to reproduce as we do. Also I've heard/read over and over that compared to many species humans aren't that genetically diverse. We're all basically the same, differences in outward appearance aside. Humans just tend to make a really big deal of small differences (they seems like BIG differences apparently to many).

    https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/hu...or-our-species

    The idea that you would be a different species to someone in the same family who's "P" instead of "J" doesn't make sense to me.

    Since humans and Neanderthals/Denisovans could apparently interbreed it means they were already very closely related, so much so they could perhaps even produce offspring that could interbreed with humans.

    An example of species similar enough to breed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule

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    I said “different species of PEOPLE “
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Sol is right that if we were different species we wouldn't be able to reproduce as we do. Also I've heard/read over and over that compared to many species humans aren't that genetically diverse. We're all basically the same, differences in outward appearance aside. Humans just tend to make a really big deal of small differences (they seems like BIG differences apparently to many).

    https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/hu...or-our-species

    The idea that you would be a different species to someone in the same family who's "P" instead of "J" doesn't make sense to me.

    Since humans and Neanderthals/Denisovans could apparently interbreed it means they were already very closely related, so much so they could perhaps even produce offspring that could interbreed with humans.

    An example of species similar enough to breed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule
    No sol is not out to have an intelligent conversation but to try every avenue to discredit my self typing. I have had it with him.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    My theory is that what we call J/P types is actually different species of people and what we know is that different species of people did exist and with migration people did meet, had wars and interacted with different species. This should come to light with genetic testing
    I think NF and ST or SF and NT look like different species. I don't notice so much difference between ESTj and ISTp for example. Its more notorious between NF and ST or SF and NT imo. Also opposite values contrast a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMFAO View Post
    It's funny to me that he doesn't even have a type listed for himself. Does he even know his own type?
    He's LSE
    Pushy
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    Tells people what to do
    Tells people how they should think
    Tells people what is accurate or not even when those thing are not accurate
    Never reads any real information and basis his conclusions or conclusions and ideas he has already formed
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    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMFAO View Post
    Has he ever made a thread for people to type him?
    IDK it was very clear to me he was ESTJ so I never cared whether he made a self typing thread or not. He probably didn't.
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    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    The article headline says "Nine Species of Human Once Walked Earth. Now There's Just One. Did We Kill The Rest?"

    I think we interbred with some of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by LMFAO View Post
    I wonder what his motivation for being on the forum is then. He never seems to say any real life info about himself, just speaks on others even when it's obvious that his opinion wasn't welcomed. What does he get out of being here then?
    Hopefully it is to sharpen his english and interact well with other.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    But having had different species in our evolutionary history doesn’t mean we aren’t a single species right? https://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-g...ame-subspecies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    My theory is that what we call J/P types is actually different species of people and what we know is that different species of people did exist and with migration people did meet, had wars and interacted with different species. This should come to light with genetic testing
    I'd agree if you said it was Merry vs. Serious or something.

    Socionics xxxj vs xxxp is a weird dichotomy. (unless you meant MBTI xxxJ vs xxxP)

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    Quote Originally Posted by oath of solitude View Post
    I'd agree if you said it was Merry vs. Serious or something.

    Socionics xxxj vs xxxp is a weird dichotomy. (unless you meant MBTI xxxJ vs xxxP)
    rational vs irrational. Socionics follows Jung. If the base function is T or F you are rational. I don't know what mbti is talking about.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    rational vs irrational. Socionics follows Jung. If the base function is T or F you are rational. I don't know what mbti is talking about.
    MBTI's J/P is determined by the first extraverted function. There's certainly something to this way of looking at types, even if it wasn't a method used by Jung: SEIs, for instance, come off as more structured and "judging", or firmly opinionated, than ESIs IMO. This also has the advantage of making the type-code reflect the closeness of mirror relations (Socionics' ESFj & ISFp becomes ESFJ & ISFJ). For all the faults of MBTI, I don't think this is one of them: it's just another way of categorizing types, and it isn't even contradictory to Jung or Model A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    My theory is that what we call J/P types is actually different species of people and what we know is that different species of people did exist and with migration people did meet, had wars and interacted with different species. This should come to light with genetic testing

    I'm assuming that like me, you use current knowledge of evolutionary biology as a way to test your hypothesis(and not creationism). I also assume you're talking about the p/j dichotomy in socionics between rationals and irrationals. Your theory would assume that a "j society" and a "p society" existed before we intermingled. This theory seems kind of complicated; why would j traits and p traits have evolved separately? To what would they be an adaptation? Your theory assumes that some place on earth at some time was a good place only for j people and another only for p people. How come those two places were so different?


    My theory is that humans evolved different personality traits because diversity in behaviour is evolutionarily advantageous for the human species.
    Let's take an example: some people are more "curious"; that can be a nice advantage because if your the first one to discover something, you can serve yourself as much as you want! Being curious has a cost though, you could kill yourself exploring a new place or eating a new fruit; that's why "caution" also exists. Caution doesn't work that well to learn new skills that would help you deal with the world though. Both strategies("curious" VS "cautious") can increase/decrease your survival depending on the situation, but you can only be one of the two. Yet, a society made of both curious and cautious people has more chances of perpetuating itself than a society only made of either curious or cautious people because it's both exploring and securing. What aspects would be boosted in a curious individual ? I would say extroverted functions. In a cautious individual? Introverted ones.
    This reasoning can also be applied to a j/p society. It's both adaptable(p) and stable(j).
    Only there occasionally

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    MBTI's J/P is determined by the first extraverted function. There's certainly something to this way of looking at types, even if it wasn't a method used by Jung: SEIs, for instance, come off as more structured and "judging", or firmly opinionated, than ESIs IMO. This also has the advantage of making the type-code reflect the closeness of mirror relations (Socionics' ESFj & ISFp becomes ESFJ & ISFJ). For all the faults of MBTI, I don't think this is one of them: it's just another way of categorizing types, and it isn't even contradictory to Jung or Model A.
    Rationality / irrationality is really a fundamental difference between functions. MBTI basically messes up the whole thing.

    If you look at the descriptions then ISFJ is more linked to ESI and ISFP is linked to SEI. So the phenomenon you seem to be talking about is something else.

    Having spent a lot of time with ESI I have no doubt about who's the rational one and who's the irrational. It's really deeply rooted in the functions. The "judging" behaviour of a SEI is more shallow or maybe a totally different phenomenon, maybe related to poor conscious control of weak rational functions, or Ti mobilizing.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    If you look at the descriptions then ISFJ is more linked to ESI and ISFP is linked to SEI. So the phenomenon you seem to be talking about is something else.
    As I see it, MBTI's depiction of introverted types is confused, and that's because their depiction of J/P is muddled by what Socionics calls rationality/irrationality. MBTI's ISFJ description reads like a blend of Socionics' ESI and SEI descriptions; same for their ISFP description.


    Rationality / irrationality is really a fundamental difference between functions. MBTI basically messes up the whole thing...
    Having spent a lot of time with ESI I have no doubt about who's the rational one and who's the irrational. It's really deeply rooted in the functions. The "judging" behaviour of a SEI is more shallow or maybe a totally different phenomenon, maybe related to poor conscious control of weak rational functions, or Ti mobilizing.
    You're looking for Socionics rationality/irrationality, and it's a real and noticeable difference, so you find it. MBTI's way of determining J/P is, I think, also fine, at least theoretically: I really think you can observe that introverted people with judging creative functions present themselves in a certain way distinct from introverted people with perceptive creative functions. Again, the problem is that the people who've contributed to MBTI have always confused it with Socionics' conception of rationality/irrationality, which creates a great amount of confusion. Also, you mentioned Ti mobilizing as a possible explanation for their "judging" behavior, which is exactly it: Ti mobilizing is one and the same with Fe creative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    MBTI's J/P is determined by the first extraverted function. There's certainly something to this way of looking at types, even if it wasn't a method used by Jung: SEIs, for instance, come off as more structured and "judging", or firmly opinionated, than ESIs IMO. This also has the advantage of making the type-code reflect the closeness of mirror relations (Socionics' ESFj & ISFp becomes ESFJ & ISFJ). For all the faults of MBTI, I don't think this is one of them: it's just another way of categorizing types, and it isn't even contradictory to Jung or Model A.
    But as an INFJ I never “extrovert” with Fe. INFJ mbti reads like Socionics EII
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    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Pushy
    Agressive
    Tells people what to do
    Tells people how they should think
    Tells people what is accurate or not even when those thing are not accurate
    Never reads any real information and basis his conclusions or conclusions and ideas he has already formed
    You were like this too, 10 years ago when you just joined the forum. what does that say about your type?
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    But as an INFJ I never “extrovert” with Fe. INFJ mbti reads like Socionics EII
    Hm? You would "extravert" with Ne.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Hm? You would "extravert" with Ne.
    I don’t understand what that even means “extroverting “ with a function
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    No sol is not out to have an intelligent conversation but to try every avenue to discredit my self typing. I have had it with him.
    I am sorry you are finding yourself in this situation but it is a bit of poetic justice do you not think...

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    You were like this too, 10 years ago when you just joined the forum. what does that say about your type?
    The environment here was very different than it is now. Also, I had to learn the hard way to not try to "prove" my statements and just make them and leave.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    So which one is neanderthal? Is the other homo sapien?
    And what do you get when neanderthal has baby with homo sapien? Can they have baby? I think we are on to something.
    ~Fish heads, fish heads, rolli polli fish heads~
    ~Fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!~

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    Ania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    So which one is neanderthal? Is the other homo sapien?
    And what do you get when neanderthal has baby with homo sapien? Can they have baby? I think we are on to something.
    ...
    we are the result of the interbreeding.

    the earlier version of h sapiens (that supposedly co-mingled with the Neanderthals) are called cro-magnons

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    you're no fun.
    ~Fish heads, fish heads, rolli polli fish heads~
    ~Fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!~

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    Maritsa, you are just humiliating yourself here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    The article headline says "Nine Species of Human Once Walked Earth. Now There's Just One. Did We Kill The Rest?"

    I think we interbred with some of them.
    There is proof we did.

    Not sure what this has to do with J/P, however.

    I said “different species of PEOPLE “
    Your original statement was a trope, then?

    I personally don't like it when people use scientific jargon for emotional effect. It comes off really intellectually dishonest. Sorry.
    Last edited by Uncle Ave; 09-19-2020 at 12:45 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LMFAO View Post
    I wonder what his motivation for being on the forum is then. He never seems to say any real life info about himself, just speaks on others even when it's obvious that his opinion wasn't welcomed. What does he get out of being here then?
    You could ask him, but I'm guessing @Sol also views the forum as a place to exchange useful/accurate information on stuff. Which is also how I see it, really. The exchange of useful information on here is rare though IMO(which is also why I'm not here much), and yeah, people are going to take what you say more seriously if they trust you and respect you, rather than seeing you as someone who shoves your statements down their throats.


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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    My theory is that what we call J/P types is actually different species of people and what we know is that different species of people did exist and with migration people did meet, had wars and interacted with different species. This should come to light with genetic testing
    Anyway, what is your rationale for this theory? At least I assume you have some reason to make the connection between different subspecies of humans on the one hand, and the J/P types on the other hand. Or did this hunch just fall out of the sky?
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    As I see it, MBTI's depiction of introverted types is confused, and that's because their depiction of J/P is muddled by what Socionics calls rationality/irrationality. MBTI's ISFJ description reads like a blend of Socionics' ESI and SEI descriptions; same for their ISFP description.
    ok, well, the way I see things the J/P is really intended to refer to irrationality / rationality. It is just a different name. (Jung himself also refers to rationality as "judging", if I remember correctly). That's also why I see no point in using the small letters j/p. I don't really see why mbti would leave out the real phenomenon of rationality since the types are basically the same, or that's the intention. To look at the same real life phenomenon as socionics.

    In the ISFJ description the "Si" seems to partly refer to rational behaviour. Detailed comparisons with the past, ordering things, commonly seen in ESI. As I've said before, I consider mbti "Si" to be totally made up. Just a label for common behaviour in ESI/LSI types, but not a real psychic function.

    But these things get just too confusing because the mbti functions are simply not correct. So this becomes fast a pointless overly conceptual discussion. It's like comparing some old buggy beta version of a computer program with the shiny new 1.0 release.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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