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Thread: I HATE my duals!!!

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    Default I HATE my duals!!!

    I am fed up with the duals in my life. I'm beginning to wonder whether duality is all it's cracked up to be because my ESFps seem to cause more headaches than they are worth. I have a dual parent, a dual friend, and a dual love interest and they are all looking like lost causes to me. I have had to deploy a ridiculous amount of forgiveness to tolerate them. No matter how much true love I display, it is never returned.

    My ESFp parent:
    -Abused me physically for the smallest things growing up
    -Could not tell when being manipulated by others and allowed those manipulations to lead to the abuse of others, especially me
    -I never truly felt loved by this parent unless something was up. I was supported financially, but it is routinely thrown in my face
    -Married to a mirage, miserable, perpetual cheater, and appears selfless to others but those closer to the circle witness the truth selfishness of their actions
    -Cares a lot about appearances, but underneath it all is an awful rolemodel
    -Never reaches out to me first but complains to others that I don't try hard enough to mend our relationship (because as the child that's obviously my job)

    My ESFp friend:
    -Great for partying or adventures, but has mood swings and becomes very emotionally manipulative
    ex: If I'm dating a guy and I'm happy but she isn't, she will try to manipulate my thoughts about the guy
    -Doesn't listen to sound advice, but when shit hits the fan, expects me to suffer with her
    -Nowhere to be found when I'm depressed or have mood swings of my own
    -Allows other friends of questionable morale to come between us
    -Uses everyone, has 0 interest in someone who doesn't apparently have something she can use (money or fame)
    -Won't tell anyone how she feels but expects them to "know", (My Fe polr won't tolerate this at all)
    -Randomly chooses to ignore me, abandon me, and give me the cold shoulder and is appalled when I don't run back to her
    -Will reject people's help if she didn't lie, swindle, or seduce them to get her way
    -Will be jealous of people who work for what they have, unlike her
    -Admittedly hates seeing people happy if she is not
    -The entire friendship gives me the feeling that she wishes I were a lesbian and in love with her, that way she could seduce me and take advantage of me
    -Will pretend she has no money so I'll pay for her
    -When I buy her food or something she needs, she never shows appreciation. She might say thank you once, but quickly makes a habit of becoming entitled to the good treatment. Continues to complain that no one cares about her.
    -I never know where I stand with her and am constantly walking on eggshells to keep her happy
    -Gives the impression that she could care less about our friendship even though it's obvious I am quite literally the only genuine friend she has.
    -Will run off when I try to stand up against her mistreatment then shit-talk me and tell a twisted version of what happened to whoever is willing to listen, one time she painted me as an awful person on social media.

    We are currently on an OFF stage and I've decided to let her go. She is in bad financial shape and deeply in need of someone and I've decided to leave her to the wolves. Why should I, the better friend (not to mention, the Victim), have to chase her?

    My ESFp love (interest?): I'll start this off by saying it has been extremely hard to find a straight, male ESFp. I'm starting to wonder if they even exist...
    -No solid career, no stable income and no concrete plan to have either
    -Easily spends what money he does have on useless things
    -Easily swindled into get rich quick schemes
    -No desire to "be a man" and work or take care of a woman
    -I once told him I was in a bad situation, he showed no concern ("Gotta go, you're being too negative")
    -Is taken care of by and living with his mother
    -Hypersexual Tinder addict whose admittedly slept with close to 200 girls
    -Keeps mentioning transwomen and gay men, being "mistaken" for gay, to the point of suspicion
    -Hard for me to tell when his compliments or anything he says is sincere, because...
    -He is constantly lying about even the smallest things, just for me to catch him in his lies because he never remembers them once they leave his mouth
    -Is also attracted to people with money and fame, leading me to wonder if I will be used for these things or left for someone with more of it
    -Tells me he likes me, has fun with me, but never texts me first or makes plans with me

    With my duals, it's like I'm constantly trying to force them to see the value in me and in our pairing, no matter how much they are benefitting from it.
    The things they value are things I have but refuse to be used for like money. I instead would like to help them make money using their talents and dissuade them from making bad decisions or hanging around the wrong crowd. I do all this expecting nothing in return. And yet, they tend to hurt me more than any other type I have relationships with. And though we have good times together, I end up feeling like I get nothing out of the pairing. They have proven themselves to be selfish, self-serving, and willing to do anything with anyone to meet their needs.
    They don't seem to stand on any moral principles, can't tell which friends or love interests are worth their time and effort, and are constantly using me as an emotional punching bag (or a literal one) if not just stringing me along. It has caused more damage to my trust and self esteem than growth in my opinion. I almost wish I was a different type so I wouldn't have such an awful dual type. No matter how much help you give them, they are a bottomless pit and will have you feeling like you put time and effort in for nothing. Then they happily move on to someone who treats them worse but is more loved and appreciated by them than you were.

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    A dual is not worth it if they're a terrible person. These seem like terrible people. Why do you even stick around?

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    I'm not feeling very coherent right now to say much more, but I think your issues with these people run deeper than just ESFps being like that -- because not all are, and I'm not saying that just because I'm ESFp (you don't know me, so my word is useless) but because there are a lot more people with this type than your sample size of three.

    Duality is rewarding if you are self aware enough to recognize constructive feedback vs malicious/unnecessary feedback. It won't work if someone feels like they're being poked on their sore spots with a stick, and it doesn't seem like these people are anywhere near that level of self awareness.

    Don't waste your time on them if you can help it, because it seems like you've already tried much harder to help them than what they deserve. It's obviously hurting you. And as for SEE-ILI duality, I think it's very hard to match up properly, but when it does happen (and both parties are mature enough to appreciate it) it can be very rewarding. I don't have much personal experience with it, but conversations with ILIs are very enlightening for me, and they seem to enjoy talking to me as well because I pay a lot of attention.

    I'm sorry you're surrounded by people like this. I hope you find someone who appreciates you a lot more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    These seem like terrible people. Why do you even stick around?
    God HATES him/her!!!

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    Tbh if you are stupid enough to give “true love” to people and stick around long enough to then accumulate a textwall of complaints about them, then you deserve it. Don’t expect good relationships and experiences to just come to you if you live your life like a gloomy sitting duck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Tbh if you are stupid enough to give “true love” to people and stick around long enough to then accumulate a textwall of complaints about them, then you deserve it. Don’t expect good relationships and experiences to just come to you if you live your life like a gloomy sitting duck.
    It's not stupidity. It's temperament. All dynamic types see negative things as periods to get over. It gives us properties like loyalty in difficult spots.

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    Calm my ILI friend has married her third SEe husband after the first two died. There’s love and hope for you. You just haven’t found the right dual. Duality is natural. I have amazing ESFP cousins. The SEE want my ILI mom and want her to live with them. Seriously though I have a ton on SEE family and friends all so generous. I think you are dating in the wrong avenues or society
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    There was a period of time that I too hated LSE so I can feel you but I also learned that I was dating the wrong people and the good ones were right next to me all along. I hope this gives you hope
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    mistyping. inc. mb your type
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    I kinda agree with Maritsa here, you might be stuck in a bad pool of human beings in general. For example, my brother has a ton of crazy redneck relatives, and no matter what type they were, you wouldn't want to be around them because they are always starting drama and (from what I hear) chopping family up into little pieces. See if all of these candidates are all in your version of the redneck pool and try to sample SEEs from outside of it if so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    I kinda agree with Maritsa here, you might be stuck in a bad pool of human beings in general. For example, my brother has a ton of crazy redneck relatives, and no matter what type they were, you wouldn't want to be around them because they are always starting drama and (from what I hear) chopping family up into little pieces. See if all of these candidates are all in your version of the redneck pool and try to sample SEEs from outside of it if so.
    Thanks ouronis

    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    It's not stupidity. It's temperament. All dynamic types see negative things as periods to get over. It gives us properties like loyalty in difficult spots.
    No lol it’s just being naive about people. Stupidity can be a negative period to get over though so it could be worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by calm View Post
    I am fed up with the duals in my life. I'm beginning to wonder whether duality is all it's cracked up to be because my ESFps seem to cause more headaches than they are worth. I have a dual parent, a dual friend, and a dual love interest and they are all looking like lost causes to me. I have had to deploy a ridiculous amount of forgiveness to tolerate them. No matter how much true love I display, it is never returned.

    My ESFp parent:
    -Abused me physically for the smallest things growing up
    -Could not tell when being manipulated by others and allowed those manipulations to lead to the abuse of others, especially me
    -I never truly felt loved by this parent unless something was up. I was supported financially, but it is routinely thrown in my face
    -Married to a mirage, miserable, perpetual cheater, and appears selfless to others but those closer to the circle witness the truth selfishness of their actions
    -Cares a lot about appearances, but underneath it all is an awful rolemodel
    -Never reaches out to me first but complains to others that I don't try hard enough to mend our relationship (because as the child that's obviously my job)

    My ESFp friend:
    -Great for partying or adventures, but has mood swings and becomes very emotionally manipulative
    ex: If I'm dating a guy and I'm happy but she isn't, she will try to manipulate my thoughts about the guy
    -Doesn't listen to sound advice, but when shit hits the fan, expects me to suffer with her
    -Nowhere to be found when I'm depressed or have mood swings of my own
    -Allows other friends of questionable morale to come between us
    -Uses everyone, has 0 interest in someone who doesn't apparently have something she can use (money or fame)
    -Won't tell anyone how she feels but expects them to "know", (My Fe polr won't tolerate this at all)
    -Randomly chooses to ignore me, abandon me, and give me the cold shoulder and is appalled when I don't run back to her
    -Will reject people's help if she didn't lie, swindle, or seduce them to get her way
    -Will be jealous of people who work for what they have, unlike her
    -Admittedly hates seeing people happy if she is not
    -The entire friendship gives me the feeling that she wishes I were a lesbian and in love with her, that way she could seduce me and take advantage of me
    -Will pretend she has no money so I'll pay for her
    -When I buy her food or something she needs, she never shows appreciation. She might say thank you once, but quickly makes a habit of becoming entitled to the good treatment. Continues to complain that no one cares about her.
    -I never know where I stand with her and am constantly walking on eggshells to keep her happy
    -Gives the impression that she could care less about our friendship even though it's obvious I am quite literally the only genuine friend she has.
    -Will run off when I try to stand up against her mistreatment then shit-talk me and tell a twisted version of what happened to whoever is willing to listen, one time she painted me as an awful person on social media.

    We are currently on an OFF stage and I've decided to let her go. She is in bad financial shape and deeply in need of someone and I've decided to leave her to the wolves. Why should I, the better friend (not to mention, the Victim), have to chase her?

    My ESFp love (interest?): I'll start this off by saying it has been extremely hard to find a straight, male ESFp. I'm starting to wonder if they even exist...
    -No solid career, no stable income and no concrete plan to have either
    -Easily spends what money he does have on useless things
    -Easily swindled into get rich quick schemes
    -No desire to "be a man" and work or take care of a woman
    -I once told him I was in a bad situation, he showed no concern ("Gotta go, you're being too negative")
    -Is taken care of by and living with his mother
    -Hypersexual Tinder addict whose admittedly slept with close to 200 girls
    -Keeps mentioning transwomen and gay men, being "mistaken" for gay, to the point of suspicion
    -Hard for me to tell when his compliments or anything he says is sincere, because...
    -He is constantly lying about even the smallest things, just for me to catch him in his lies because he never remembers them once they leave his mouth
    -Is also attracted to people with money and fame, leading me to wonder if I will be used for these things or left for someone with more of it
    -Tells me he likes me, has fun with me, but never texts me first or makes plans with me

    With my duals, it's like I'm constantly trying to force them to see the value in me and in our pairing, no matter how much they are benefitting from it.
    The things they value are things I have but refuse to be used for like money. I instead would like to help them make money using their talents and dissuade them from making bad decisions or hanging around the wrong crowd. I do all this expecting nothing in return. And yet, they tend to hurt me more than any other type I have relationships with. And though we have good times together, I end up feeling like I get nothing out of the pairing. They have proven themselves to be selfish, self-serving, and willing to do anything with anyone to meet their needs.
    They don't seem to stand on any moral principles, can't tell which friends or love interests are worth their time and effort, and are constantly using me as an emotional punching bag (or a literal one) if not just stringing me along. It has caused more damage to my trust and self esteem than growth in my opinion. I almost wish I was a different type so I wouldn't have such an awful dual type. No matter how much help you give them, they are a bottomless pit and will have you feeling like you put time and effort in for nothing. Then they happily move on to someone who treats them worse but is more loved and appreciated by them than you were.
    That's your fault for wanting a man to take care of you, stop being useless first.
    I fuck whoever makes me hard

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    No lol it’s just being naive about people. Stupidity can be a negative period to get over though so it could be worse.
    Usually there needs to be positives to balance the large number of negatives to make one want to stay in a relationship even with the negatives. But only an idiot doesn't notice negatives in a partner as time goes by. And because people are people, that list will get longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    Usually there needs to be positives to balance the large number of negatives to make one want to stay in a relationship even with the negatives. But only an idiot doesn't notice negatives in a partner as time goes by. And because people are people, that list will get longer.
    Sometimes her lipocytes outweigh her personality.. SAD!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    Usually there needs to be positives to balance the large number of negatives to make one want to stay in a relationship even with the negatives. But only an idiot doesn't notice negatives in a partner as time goes by. And because people are people, that list will get longer.
    Right. I don’t really think it can be justified by typology lol.

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    It's not the observation of negatives that is type related, it's how one reacts to them. Either one tries to deal with every single thing by blowing everything up (static-negative-results) behaviour. Or one keeps chipping at the problem piece by piece (Dynamic-negative-process).

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    Let's face it. Some people are just complete shit stains on society. And no matter how much we try to rationalize their BS through a typological lens, it is a massive waste of emotional energy and time.

    Like I can understand exactly why some people treated me poorly from a theoretical personality lens but it still doesn't justify BS. Saying that, OP you should just get away from crap people.
    Last edited by SojournInLimbo; 09-16-2020 at 09:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    It's not the observation of negatives that is type related, it's how one reacts to them. Either one tries to deal with every single thing by blowing everything up (static-negative-results) behaviour. Or one keeps chipping at the problem piece by piece (Dynamic-negative-process).
    Yeah at some point (with the exception of parents—and even then too with them in an emotional sense), it’s time to pack your bags and go. I’m talking about the action of actively giving love as OP put it and staying present in the relationship after MULTIPLE things that should be deal-breakers for regular people have happened. The fact that he/she also seems to conclude that ALL SEEs are this way too is another point to faulty thinking/decision making of the individual. I would imagine that EIEs and SEIs would be wiser with people than this too, so if you’re insistent on pinning typology to it then I’d say it’d only be exacerbated to this state with being a logical type too on top of it. Of course, this person isn’t making very good logical conclusions so it’s hard to know for sure what type they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Yeah at some point (with the exception of parents—and even then too with them in an emotional sense), it’s time to pack your bags and go. I’m talking about the action of actively giving love as OP put it and staying present in the relationship. The fact that he/she also seems to conclude that ALL SEEs are this way too is another point to faulty thinking/decision making of the individual. I would imagine that EIEs and SEIs would be wiser with people than this too, so if you’re insistent on pinning typology to it then I’d say it’d only be exacerbated to this state with being a logical type too on top of it. Of course, this person isn’t making very good logical conclusions so it’s hard to know for sure what type they are.
    Well put.

    For INTps it's particularly difficult to leave a difficult situation. With the Ni function they're basically just waiting for things to pass and if they remain in the clutches of the circumstances... the abuse will just continue. They would require some measure of Si to be able to leave on their own.

    Now I'd love to hear the other side of this situation because what INTp interprets as abusive is likely not the intent of the ESFp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    Well put.

    For INTps it's particularly difficult to leave a difficult situation. With the Ni function they're basically just waiting for things to pass and if they remain in the clutches of the circumstances... the abuse will just continue. They would require some measure of Si to be able to leave on their own.

    Now I'd love to hear the other side of this situation because what INTp interprets as abusive is likely not the intent of the ESFp.
    What I have observed with INTp is that they stay because they want to explore every last nuance before making a definitive choice about someone even if they know on some level, something is wrong. There's an insecurity in knowing whether or not their read on the social situation is accurate, related to POLR Fe I think. If not careful, they can logic and rationalize people's behavior to the extent that they forget to check in with the Fi or their values.

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    Duals become inseparable. It’ would be easier to split an atom
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    That's your fault for wanting a man to take care of you, stop being useless first.
    If that’s all you took from that whole paragraph you’re probably a SEE and failed to read because you like totally got bored.

    ETA: just checked, even worse you’re an IEE. A childlike man who can’t even take care of himself. Dated one and he wanted ME to take care of HIM. So of course you feel that way. Utterly useless, you guys are.Stop projecting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by calm View Post
    If that’s all you took from that whole paragraph you’re probably a SEE and failed to read because you like totally got bored.

    ETA: just checked, even worse you’re an IEE. A childlike man who can’t even take care of himself. Dated one and he wanted ME to take care of HIM. So of course you feel that way. Utterly useless, you guys are.Stop projecting!
    calm is... not very calm
    we’ve been duped bois >:0
    burrito bitch​

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    Hey Calm, I just want to tell you that you are not doing anything wrong when loving ppl and that I feel you. What you are describing reminds me of me some years ago and I think its related with Fi (ethics of relations) HA.

    Ppl tend to think that relationships are easy and a fairytale and that's a lie. Love has been vanalized and ridiculously idealized in most of the modern societies.

    Duality it's actually the attraction of almost opposites (more like a chemical reaction in any case) and I think there are certain conditions for duality to actually work.

    One is having common values as common ground. In my case it has been Christianity. I don't know if you are christian, but to me and my dual, christianity provide common values for the relationship, so it is not anymore about what I (or he) want (s) or think(s) is right but what's good or right according the Bible and how things should be. As far as I've seen, other successfully dualized delta couples in the forum are christians or have a religion (like Applejacks, Maritsa or Eliza Thomason). I don't know if its something of Deltas or Fi quadras or if it actually works in the same way for other quadras. But I've seen even conflicting couples working through having common christian values (EIE and SLI).Though, I've also experienced from first hand that if there's bad christianity (ppl who profess christianity but don't live according its values) then relationships (of any kind) still failing.

    Anyway, I think there are differences from Fe quadra and Fi quadra love style. Jung said, Fe love was based in objective or actual qualities, while Fi love is actually based in the individual (the one who loves). When Jesus spoke about loving your enemy and keep loving those who were mean or when God the father in the O.T. said he did good because of who he was and because he was loyal and not because of any quality humankind or Israel could have, was actually talking about this Fi love. What I'm trying to say is that your love is genuine and is based in who and what you are, not in the other person and that's actually a pure christian way to love. Don't feel like you are doing anything wrong even if the world tells you that you are a dick for loving despicable ppl. You are doing ok. The world is evil. Don't stop loving, though, you must look for a common ground in values to keep a successful relationship. In the Bible it says that "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? (2 Cor. 6:14) . The reason is to avoid unnecessary pain and frustration. If you are a christian you shouldn't try to have a relationship with a non believer and if you are not, you should know that love for this current world is tainted (as the worldly singers say). If you want you can pm me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Hey Calm, I just want to tell you that you are not doing anything wrong when loving ppl and that I feel you. What you are describing reminds me of me some years ago and I think its related with Fi (ethics of relations) HA.

    Ppl tend to think that relationships are easy and a fairytale and that's a lie. Love has been vanalized and ridiculously idealized in most of the modern societies.

    Duality it's actually the attraction of almost opposites (more like a chemical reaction in any case) and I think there are certain conditions for duality to actually work.

    One is having common values as common ground. In my case it has been Christianity. I don't know if you are christian, but to me and my dual, christianity provide common values for the relationship, so it is not anymore about what I (or he) want (s) or think(s) is right but what's good or right according the Bible and how things should be. As far as I've seen, other successfully dualized delta couples in the forum are christians or have a religion (like Applejacks, Maritsa or Eliza Thompson). I don't know if its something of Deltas or Fi quadras or if it actually works in the same way for other quadras. But I've seen even conflicting couples working through having common christian values (EIE and SLI).Though, I've also experienced from first hand that if there's bad christianity (ppl who profess christianity but don't live according its values) then relationships (of any kind) still failing.

    Anyway, I think there are differences from Fe quadra and Fi quadra love style. Jung said, Fe love was based in objective or actual qualities, while Fi love is actually based in the individual (the one who loves). When Jesus spoke about loving your enemy and keep loving those who were mean or when God the father in the O.T. said he did good because of who he was and because he was loyal and not because of any quality humankind or Israel could have, was actually talking about this Fi love. What I'm trying to say is that your love is genuine and is based in who and what you are, not in the other person and that's actually a pure christian way to love. Don't feel like you are doing anything wrong even if the world tells you that you are a dick for loving despicable ppl. You are doing ok. The world is evil. Don't stop loving, though, you must look for a common ground in values to keep a successful relationship. In the Bible it says that "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? (2 Cor. 6:14) . The reason is to avoid unnecessary pain and frustration. If you are a christian you shouldn't try to have a relationship with a non believer and if you are not, you should know that love for this current world is tainted (as the worldly singers say). If you want you can pm me.
    Makes sense on why i don't dualize, i'm an atheist.

    But i've been talking to a LSE girl, and we actually do share things in common, so I can kind of sort of compare it to that, in a way. I do like intensity though and not to be ruled over by some book.
    I fuck whoever makes me hard

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    @Tommy, out of curiosity, do you think Fe/Ti valuers' love isn't Christian, or authentic, or something like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    Makes sense on why i don't dualize, i'm an atheist.

    But i've been talking to a LSE girl, and we actually do share things in common, so I can kind of sort of compare it to that, in a way. I do like intensity though and not to be ruled over by some book.
    I'm a agnostic. What @Tommy describes sounds like a sx-last stacking relationship. Relating through social values and beliefs, worldviews and communities in common. I don't think it has anything to do with duality.
    Only there occasionally

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I'm a agnostic. What @Tommy describes sounds like a sx-last stacking relationship. Relating through social values and beliefs, worldviews and communities in common. I don't think it has anything to do with duality.
    Ah, nice take. Hadn't seen it that way.
    I fuck whoever makes me hard

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    @Tommy, out of curiosity, do you think Fe/Ti valuers' love isn't Christian, or authentic, or something like that?
    LII's get cucked.
    I fuck whoever makes me hard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Duals become inseparable. It’ would be easier to split an atom
    Yet it happens naturally. OK, I have been dealing too much with radioactive data eh... data about radioactivity.
    Measuring you right now

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    idiosyncratic type

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homicidal Maniac 007 View Post
    Yet it happens naturally. OK, I have been dealing too much with radioactive data eh... data about radioactivity.
    I only understand like 9% of the shit you say but somehow I still appreciate your texts.
    I fuck whoever makes me hard

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I'm a agnostic. What @Tommy describes sounds like a sx-last stacking relationship. Relating through social values and beliefs, worldviews and communities in common. I don't think it has anything to do with duality.
    If you think ethics of relations is not important in a relationship and you look for someone to make you feel emotions (as you said before) then mb you are not even IEE.

    Also there's no logical relation between ethics of relations (Fi) being important in a relationship and being sx last, lol.

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    Wink Jung on Christianity

    Here is Jung saying that Christian love is extroverted (on contrary to Eastern Asian religions and philosophies, who focus on more introverted elements):







    Jung saying Christianity 'suppresses individuality and unconsciousness' and opts for collectivism and consciousness (and I hope I don't have to remind whether Fe/Ti or Fi/Te is collective; but here you have it abridged http://worldsocionics.blogspot.com/2...uction-to.html):






























    (For one of these quotes: mind Nietzsche was probably beta NF, so he rebelled against a system he disliked with another system, while also mentioned Stirner was ILI, so he rebelled by slowly destroying systems altogether)

    Jung comparing two early Christian theologians, where he marks Tertullian as Ti-dom and Origen as extroverted (likely Te?); Tertullian is still widely theologically acclaimed by Christian churches (although he was not proclaimed a saint by anyone, as he was, well, too much - for example, he didn't want to allow widows to remarry), while Origen was denounced as heretic:
























    All of these are taken from Psychological Types. Just that book.

    waiting for that beta typing


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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    @Tommy, out of curiosity, do you think Fe/Ti valuers' love isn't Christian, or authentic, or something like that?
    Is reading comprehension a skill limited to Te?

    Unless you need me to generate conclusions for you because of your mental capabilities, I suggest you to go to read the N.T. by yourself and then read Socionics or Jung and make your own comparison if you are truly interested in the topic.



    3. Feeling

    Feeling in the extraverted attitude is orientated by objective data, i.e. the object is the indispensable determinant of the kind of feeling. It agrees with objective values. If one has always known feeling as a subjective fact, the nature of extraverted feeling will not immediately be understood, since it has freed itself as fully as possible from the subjective factor, and has, instead, become wholly subordinated to the influence of the object. Even where it seems to show a certain independence of the quality of the concrete object, it is none the less under the spell of traditional or generally valid standards of some sort. I may feel constrained, for instance, to use the predicate 'beautiful' or 'good', not because I find the object 'beautiful' or 'good' from my own subjective feeling, but because it is fitting and politic so to do; and fitting it certainly is, inasmuch as a contrary opinion would disturb the general feeling situation. A feeling-judgment such as this is in no way a simulation or a lie -- it is merely an act of accommodation. A picture, for instance, may be termed beautiful, because a picture that is hung in a drawing-room and bearing a well-known signature is generally assumed to be beautiful, or because the predicate 'ugly' might offend the family of the fortunate possessor, or because there is a benevolent intention on the part of the visitor to create a pleasant feeling-atmosphere, to which end everything must be felt as agreeable. Such feelings are governed by the standard of the objective determinants. As such they are genuine, and represent the total visible feeling-function.

    In precisely the same way as extraverted thinking strives to rid itself of subjective influences, extraverted feeling has also to undergo a certain process of differentiation, before it is finally denuded of every subjective trimming. The valuations resulting from the act of feeling either correspond directly with objective values or at least chime in with certain traditional and generally known standards of value. This kind of feeling is very largely responsible for the fact that so many people flock to the theatre, to concerts, or to Church, and what is more, with correctly adjusted positive feelings. Fashions, too, owe their existence to it, and, what is far more valuable, the whole positive and wide-spread support of social, philanthropic, and such like cultural enterprises. In such matters, extraverted feeling proves itself a creative factor. Without this feeling, for instance, a beautiful and harmonious sociability would be unthinkable. So far extraverted feeling is just as beneficent and rationally effective as extraverted thinking. But this salutary effect is lost as soon as the object gains an exaggerated influence. For, when this happens, extraverted feeling draws the personality too much into the object, i.e. the object assimilates the person, whereupon the personal character of the feeling, which constitutes its principal charm, is lost. Feeling then becomes cold, material, untrustworthy. It betrays a secret aim, or at least arouses the suspicion of it in an impartial observer. No longer does it make that welcome and refreshing impression the invariable accompaniment of genuine feeling; instead, one scents a pose or affectation, although the egocentric motive may be entirely unconscious.

    Such overstressed, extraverted feeling certainly fulfils æsthetic expectations, but no longer does it speak to the heart; it merely appeals to the senses, or -- worse still -- to the reason. Doubtless it can provide æsthetic padding for a situation, but there it stops, and beyond that its effect is nil. It has become sterile. Should this process go further, a strangely contradictory dissociation of feeling develops; every object is seized upon with feeling, valuations, and numerous relationships are made which are inherently and mutually incompatible. Since such aberrations would be quite impossible if a sufficiently emphasized subject were present, the last vestige of a real personal standpoint also becomes suppressed. The subject becomes so swallowed up in individual feeling processes that to the observer it seems as though there were no longer a subject of feeling but merely a feeling process. In such a condition feeling has entirely forfeited its original human warmth, it gives an impression of pose, inconstancy, unreliability, and in the worst cases appears definitely hysterical.


    SOURCE: P.T., JUNG
    wow @Duschia you are so smart, just proven that Freelance Policeman should become a Christian to call himself a true Fe seeking type.

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    fuck.

    We are better people than our parents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    wow @Duschia you are so smart, just proven that Freelance Policeman should become a Christian to call himself a true Fe seeking type.
    Not all Fe/Ti types are Christian (see mentioned Nietzsche), but organized religious Christianity is pretty Fe/Ti going by Jung. That's the underlining and general sway, even when exceptions exist.

    This kind of feeling is very largely responsible for the fact that so many people flock to the theatre, to concerts, or to Church, and what is more, with correctly adjusted positive feelings. Fashions, too, owe their existence to it, and, what is far more valuable, the whole positive and wide-spread support of social, philanthropic, and such like cultural enterprises. Without this feeling, for instance, a beautiful and harmonious sociability would be unthinkable.

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    @Tommy, I was only interested in what you thought, not in interpreting the Bible for my own purposes. As you know, people read the Bible all the time yet come to some pretty different conclusions — same with Jung (I have to confess I’m no clearer on what you think given what you quoted). If you thought that Fe was defective or insufficient in the Christian context, or something like that, that would be a very interesting idea, and would merit discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    Not all Fe/Ti types are Christian (see mentioned Nietzsche), but organized religious Christianity is pretty Fe/Ti going by Jung. That's the underlining and general sway, even when exceptions exist.



    your "arguments" (or whatever thing you are trying to do with your quotes and posts) are so out of place and lame that I'm not even going to waste my time. I suggest you to grow up.


    waiting for that beta typing



    do you really have a narcissistic disorder don't you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    Not all Fe/Ti types are Christian (see mentioned Nietzsche), but organized religious Christianity is pretty Fe/Ti going by Jung. That's the underlining and general sway, even when exceptions exist.



    Strictly speaking Jung is not exactly the same thing as socionics. Not many people would associate “a beautiful and harmonious sociability” with socionics beta quadra for instance.

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