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    Default Values

    What are values, and why do I need them? Go.

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    To not be a shameless ball of pleasure seeking shit

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    To not be a shameless ball of pleasure seeking shit
    Why is this a problem? How do values help prevent this?

    Can’t being a shameless ball of pleasure seeking shit be a value? It seems like a lot of people sure are like that and enjoy it and are just fine. If not, why not?

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    Gonna get a bit wee-woo.

    Cannibalism and incest are proscribed and looked down upon because they are a contradiction to the work discipline of capitalism; the consumption and consummation of thyself, the Love to thyself impede on the mechanization of the self as a mere tool for capital reproduction. Thus they are formulated as an evil Other; but it is important to keep in mind that moral categories of good and evil do not exist a priori. They are ascribed ad hoc to reify the norms of one particular mode of production. Morality is a tool of discipline, not universality. We cannot then conceive of the Other as natural or right, because our comprehension of our selves is so predicated upon the mechanization of thereof whereby our bodily and psychological faculties are constituted as means of production; a machine; meant to be used just for work.




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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Why is this a problem? How do values help prevent this?

    Can’t being a shameless ball of pleasure seeking shit be a value? It seems like a lot of people sure are like that and enjoy it and are just fine. If not, why not?
    Its a problem because it's not good for your body, brain, or the people around you. Values help give people something to adhere to. They can feel good for following it. They can use it to relate to others.

    It can be a value i guess. It's pretty subjective though. Not really adhering to external order or realty. Just following dopamine rushes. The point of values is more so to have some internal standards or expectations of ones self to me.

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    Think of it as your own personal standards.

    While a rule may be something externally imposed on you,

    Your values are something imposed on you + by you.

    A rule/law can be bad...

    Say there's a law that says you can't drive faster than 55 mph on an absolutely desolate rural freeway (those kinda rules stink).

    Your values, on the other hand, if well thought out, can be a good thing:

    For instance, "I will never eat X" (Pretend X is something notoriously bad) Is a good thing because it'll increase your long-term happiness.

    In sum, values are your own personal standards, which if well thought out, guide you and keep you on track in the long-run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snek View Post
    Gonna get a bit wee-woo.

    Cannibalism and incest are proscribed and looked down upon because they are a contradiction to the work discipline of capitalism; the consumption and consummation of thyself, the Love to thyself impede on the mechanization of the self as a mere tool for capital reproduction. Thus they are formulated as an evil Other; but it is important to keep in mind that moral categories of good and evil do not exist a priori. They are ascribed ad hoc to reify the norms of one particular mode of production. Morality is a tool of discipline, not universality. We cannot then conceive of the Other as natural or right, because our comprehension of our selves is so predicated upon the mechanization of thereof whereby our bodily and psychological faculties are constituted as means of production; a machine; meant to be used just for work.
    Thank u SLI Confucius daddy.

    So it sounds like you think people made values for work, but SLIs don’t like work, so do you actually not believe in / value values ? I’m confused now. Kon-fu-ze-d

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Thank u SLI Confucius daddy.

    So it sounds like you think people made values for work, but SLIs don’t like work, so do you actually not believe in / value values ? I’m confused now. Con-fu-ce-d
    Fuck off, you fucking jerk. @snek 's dick is mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snek View Post
    Gonna get a bit wee-woo.

    Cannibalism and incest are proscribed and looked down upon because they are a contradiction to the work discipline of capitalism; the consumption and consummation of thyself, the Love to thyself impede on the mechanization of the self as a mere tool for capital reproduction. Thus they are formulated as an evil Other; but it is important to keep in mind that moral categories of good and evil do not exist a priori. They are ascribed ad hoc to reify the norms of one particular mode of production. Morality is a tool of discipline, not universality. We cannot then conceive of the Other as natural or right, because our comprehension of our selves is so predicated upon the mechanization of thereof whereby our bodily and psychological faculties are constituted as means of production; a machine; meant to be used just for work.
    Nice text but does this mean you're gonna fuck your family and eat them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    What are values, and why do I need them? Go.
    So you're something in this shit world. If you have values, you're someone of value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    Its a problem because it's not good for your body, brain, or the people around you. Values help give people something to adhere to. They can feel good for following it. They can use it to relate to others.

    It can be a value i guess. It's pretty subjective though. Not really adhering to external order or realty. Just following dopamine rushes. The point of values is more so to have some internal standards or expectations of ones self to me.
    Wait, but if the point of values is to have some internal standards, and valuing being a hedonistic sack of shit *doesn’t* adhere to external order/reality (meaning it’s more internally-defined), then doesn’t the value of being a hedonistic sack of shit fit the definition of a value perfectly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    Fuck off, you fucking jerk. @snek 's dick is mine.
    It’s okay, everybody has more than one hole

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    It’s okay, everybody has more than one hole
    It's fine, i'm no longer interested, snek's into incest and cannibalism, her dick must got some weird illnesses that yet have to be discovered

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    So you're something in this shit world. If you have values, you're someone of value.
    What if you ARE shit though? It’s a shit world, so what makes you think you aren’t just shit also? If the goal is to value yourself, then you’ll just label everything that’s an echo/extension of yourself as being valuable as well. You’ve just defined yourself as valuable already, or able to even begin to choose values correctly in this shit world. How do you know what is valuable and what’s shit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    What if you ARE shit though? It’s a shit world, so what makes you think you aren’t just shit also? If the goal is to value yourself, then you’ll just label everything that’s an echo/extension of yourself as being valuable as well. You’ve just defined yourself as valuable already, or able to even begin to choose values correctly in this shit world. How do you know what is valuable and what’s shit?
    Because I say so, anything that benefits me or I approve of is valuable, to me. I'm selfish as fuck and whatever. Just because I can.

    If you have values you'll probably know what you want, and knowing what to want is important to get ahead in life, you have goals, a destiny, now you just gotta work for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onfireee View Post
    In sum, values are your own personal standards, which if well thought out, guide you and keep you on track in the long-run.
    Thank you Firey daddy. Good answer. Your stanky butthole Ha third-eye never fails me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    Because I say so, anything that benefits me or I approve of is valuable, to me. I'm selfish as fuck and whatever. Just because I can.

    If you have values you'll probably know what you want, and knowing what to want is important to get ahead in life, you have goals, a destiny, now you just gotta work for it.
    Okay, that’s also an acceptable answer to me. I value your HA answer .

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    I have about as much value as this drink:



    My Mam still likes me though, so there's that...

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    Understanding the values behind internal logic is just:


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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    I have about as much value as this drink:



    My Mam still likes me though, so there's that...
    I tried to find a gif of someone with a bikini on the ground getting alcohol bukkaked but I couldn’t find one so here you go instead while you imagine the above:




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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Understanding the values behind internal logic is just:

    There are no values lol. It would be like a calculator having values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    I view them as moral guidelines that we strive for I think nearly everyone is a hypocrite and lies to themselves. So values give me insight/starting point into what a person might be about but it's usually not the full picture.
    That’s interesting. So are you saying that you look at what people claim that they value and compare it to their actions and other words to gain psychological insight on them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    There are no values lol. It would be like a calculator having values.
    And it has about this much personality too:


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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Thank u SLI Confucius daddy.

    So it sounds like you think people made values for work, but SLIs don’t like work, so do you actually not believe in / value values ? I’m confused now. Kon-fu-ze-d
    Well this may be a bit out there but I see Capitalism as an artificial intelligence that subsumes everything in its path to maximize human production, which has affected every level of human society including "morals", I guess it's fun to talk about how it distorts stuff. The above was just an example, not really particularly related to type. Another example could be how "manners" are a euphemism for conditioning your children to become part of a domesticated labour force and be polite. The need to be polite comes from a need to become a part of the established societal order, subjecting is to this order. You need to condition your children in order for them to fit in with the prior generation of conditioned children, and then you pat yourself on the back and call yourself a good parent for adjusting your children so well. Gotta ensure the reproduction of capital after all.

    Morality is inescapable, even though it's boring af. If you live within a human group, power dynamics have a clear moral dimension, but the sheer pretense of universal ethics is not only boring and mundane, it's really tiresome. Zaps energy and delivers little. There's Utilitarianism which is fun to talk about I guess but I think guiding oneself by general rules of behaviour (rather than case-by-case analysis) is unrealistic and leads to absurd results.

    edit: my boss called me a lazy stuck up bitch after refusing to work overtime and telling him to suck it. In fact being 'lazy' is probably one of my defining characteristics, dunno if it's common in SLIs
    Last edited by Tzuyu; 09-10-2020 at 04:22 AM.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Basically. People claim certain "values" to fit into socially but their actions betray them. For example, I have met people who go and on and on about transparency/loyalty/integrity but cheat and steal, others who emphasize that they are generous but are scrooges, and others who say that they are loving but are judgmental and hateful, etc. Politicians are an extreme example of this.

    Saying that, my formula for people is if pros -->cons = keep, if cons --> pros = toss. I think everyone does this to some extent but each person will prioritize the pros and cons differently. So if someone is friends with someone I dislike, I don't care. And if I am friends with someone others dislike, it doesn't bother me.
    I usually feel like if you have to verbalize or claim that you have a certain value, especially when going out of one’s way to do so, you either don’t actually have it, and/or are superficially using it as a way to control or influence others. “Valuable traits” to me implies action and are derived by actions that benefit, and words are what people use to substitute for action.

    In other words, not always, but more often than not, I find that when people go out of their way to emphasize that they have certain values, integrity actually runs lower than average and it’s bs that they can’t back up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snek View Post
    There's Utilitarianism which is fun to talk about I guess but I think guiding oneself by general rules of behaviour (rather than case-by-case analysis) is unrealistic and leads to absurd results.
    Interesting analysis. I agree with this. Mb bc we’re irrational type-kun/kin.

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    Default strength thru opacity

    immunity to game theory
    less vacuum to be automatically filled by non-yours values
    p . . . a . . . n . . . d . . . o . . . r . . . a
    trad metalz | (more coming)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    That's why I am scared about stating values because I don't want to be held accountable. LOL
    Personally I don’t even like being held accountable in a positive way. People often use telling you that you’re a “good person” (based on actions that benefit them, not on careful thought of what that means to you or objectively) as a substitute for providing material benefit, and as a way to manipulate you. Even if they don’t do it consciously, I don’t think the assessments of others is a good thing to base one’s ego on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    immunity to game theory
    less vacuum to be automatically filled by non-yours values
    As an SEE, what exactly is a value to you woof?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    As an SEE, what exactly is a value to you woof?
    What type do u think I am? I considered SEE once. For a moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    What type do u think I am? I considered SEE once. For a moment.
    Wow lol years is a long moment. I’ve always thought SEE for you.

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    Peace is a lie; there is only Passion.
    Through Passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I achieve victory.
    Though victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Peace is a lie; there is only Passion.
    Through Passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I achieve victory.
    Though victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.
    The force of me forcing my dick up your

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    The force of me forcing my dick up your
    Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.
    Is it also prolapsing as you’ve foreseen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Is it also prolapsing as you’ve foreseen?
    Yes, but I also got aids cum, and that's all that matters.

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    Another IEI explained it to me this way (because the word 'values' to me before he helped me with it just honestly sounded like something people used when they wanted to have a type of self-righteous false power over others)

    Values are about a preference. Do you prefer this or that. So in their very nature & essence, values are a Fi thing. That's all they are. Do you value this over that etc.. So you value being rich over being poor, etc. I think they become problematic when a person thinks they are better than other people because they have "values" and they assume the other person doesn't, just because their values are different from their own. It's also a problem if they are too vague. The source of a lot of Beta vs. Delta misunderstandings and grief lol.

    You already understand values very well in a Te way I think because you have 4D Te (you have a good sense of systematic morality & rules which is a Te thing) and so you kinda get them also in a Fi way since Te/Fi is connected, but because Fi is your polr and Fi is all about preferences and personal attraction/repulsion- that is the part that's confusing you. But looking at values like that- like the other IEI helped me with it, you can see more what they are beyond the way self-righteous snobby people use it to attack others they don't like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Another IEI explained it to me this way (because the word 'values' to me before he helped me with it just honestly sounded like something people used when they wanted to have a type of self-righteous false power over others)

    Values are about a preference. Do you prefer this or that. So in their very nature & essence, values are a Fi thing. That's all they are. Do you value this over that etc.. So you value being rich over being poor, etc. I think they become problematic when a person thinks they are better than other people because they have "values" and they assume the other person doesn't, just because their values are different from their own. It's also a problem if they are too vague. The source of a lot of Beta vs. Delta misunderstandings and grief lol.

    You already understand values very well in a Te way I think because you have 4D Te (you have a good sense of systematic morality & rules which is a Te thing) and so you kinda get them also in a Fi way since Te/Fi is connected, but because Fi is your polr and Fi is all about preferences and personal attraction/repulsion- that is the part that's confusing you. But looking at values like that- like the other IEI helped me with it, you can see more what they are beyond the way self-righteous snobby people use it to attack others they don't like.
    I think what makes Fi Fi (and my polr) is the sense that when you “like” or are attached to something, attraction/repulsion creates certain impacts on people’s perception and impressions of other things. E.g. it creates a “halo effect” on related things and makes people’s brains automatically demonize everything that reminds them of what opposes their likes. How this works is mysterious to me and losing objectivity in lieu of “likes” is undesirable in some, or many cases, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Wow lol years is a long moment. I’ve always thought SEE for you.
    For real?


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    I often say that I lack "values" because I don't often say something or someone is good/bad or make value judgements easily.

    Logical deduction gets you further to the truth imo. Although logical deduction can be seen as values, if it's a system you can also apply to many things I suppose.

    I think everyone feels like they don't live up to the person that they want to be regardless of type sometimes.

    That being said, I don't think values have to be internal. It can be something vague that can apply externally like I won't act rude/jealous/inconsiderate of the people I'm around throughout my day. It helps keep people in check, in a way.

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