Ok. My last comment.Originally Posted by Tallmo
I just think you are way too Ti > Fe. So it's easier for me to think that what you think is Mobilizing Ti is auxiliary and less developed Ti.
But if you are saying you don't have strong Ti, I agree one can adapt to seem good at it.
So, I won't insist on my typing for you.
Hope you all the best
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Well, I think we all need some kind of meaning and that means different things for different types, so I'm not sure this should be related to Ni. You also talk about believing in something greater than yourself, which also sounds kind of utilitarian and recognizing a desire for smaller parts to make up a whole, something that sounds more in line with a subjectivized (or fielded) logical structure and a more Ti desire imo. Also, you mention you want such a thing provided, but are incapable of doing that, which sounds like you value an objective (or extroverted) IE (perhaps Fe) that could make that happen. So I don't think that applies well to Ni either, which is introverted. Also, I think 'vision' probably applies to introversion in general, rather than Ni specifically, because each extroverted IE acts based on internalized motivations. So, I know I'm being very critical, but that's how I see it.
I guess the point I was trying to convey is that Ti, being introverted, falls under fielded logic. So let's say you have a problem, such as a car problem that needs fixing. Ti might decide its best to take the car to a mechanic and have them deal with fixing it; in this way the problem was fielded to a mechanic and simplified because you don't actually have to know how to fix the car or even do it yourself because that's what mechanics are there for! And Ti HA love this. While, on the other hand, Te would be inclined to get hands on and probably diagnose and fix the problem on their own or with the guidance and the help of other people. It gets more involved and can become a lot more complicated as a result.How I understood the SLI - IEE dynamic was that when the SLI runs out of standard options the IEE provides more unusual alternative solutions to maneuver around it. Its why IEE is called the "Advisor". Otherwise same thing as with the SEE-ILI relationship regarding Fi HA.
I'm kind of torn on this. I see your point, but I think to paint a working mental picture of what everything does and how it relates, doesn't there also have to be some kind of Ti involved? And isn't the guide basically Te experience put on record anyway, yet structured (Ti) to some degree? And could we even differentiate between a Ti guide and a Te guide for example?
I learn how to fix things, because it is fun. I have a home network and servers that I built myself purely for fun tbh. I tinker with the car, because its fun. I enjoy fixing problems and finding solutions in of itself, less so for helping others, but its nice when ppl appreciate it. Similar deal with psychology, math, philosophy. I also gradually build a worldview , according to which I act.. aka how I think the world is and how I should be operating within it. I have seen EIEs do something similar. It seems as a consequence both types tend towards .. e_e passionate extremism (there is no middle ground lol, on or off) .. and I'm no exception.
In my case this is Ti-Se.
Te is more like facts and business logic:
Extroverted logic as base function is manifested as a need to accumulate factual information, also from external sources such as books, second-hand information, etc, on matters of personal interest or of professional activity. This also gives these types confidence on being well-informed on the same matters, which enables them to enter arguments related to them with confidence on their knowledge, which may come across as arrogance to others. Another manifestation is an evaluation of external reality - work activities, world events, finances, procedures, personal relationships, conversations - from the point of view of factual accuracy and "making sense" and efficiency. It leads to an inclination to be proactive in increasing the efficiency and reasonableness of the external world, as well as a sense of self-worth connected on being involved and productive in activities seen as useful, profitable, or that increase one's knowledge base. To give out information that the individual knows not to be factually accurate is disturbing and avoided as much as possible.
Creative Te: It is manifested as a preference for factual accuracy over ideological consistency, and for objective, "harsh" communication over careful words that avoid a negative atmosphere. A view of the external environment being efficient, reasonable, and making sense is essential to their well-being and sense of inner peace, but they do not feel a pressing need for being proactive or productive themselves in that area.\
Since I'm not good at typing ppl, here is some examples which are considered Gorky LSI: https://socioniks.net/famouspeople/?...mousinspektora
Last edited by SGF; 09-05-2020 at 07:48 PM.
I mean that's fine, if you say you are LSI, then T (and thus Ti and Te) in general is going to be strong regardless. But I was describing the "hidden agenda" Ti, which has Te polr and "hidden agenda" Te, which has Ti polr. So I don't know what you are really taking issue with here.
"facts and business logic", if that sounds correct to you, then I have nothing to add.Te is more like facts and business logic:
Extroverted logic as base function is manifested as a need to accumulate factual information, also from external sources such as books, second-hand information, etc, on matters of personal interest or of professional activity. This also gives these types confidence on being well-informed on the same matters, which enables them to enter arguments related to them with confidence on their knowledge, which may come across as arrogance to others. Another manifestation is an evaluation of external reality - work activities, world events, finances, procedures, personal relationships, conversations - from the point of view of factual accuracy and "making sense" and efficiency. It leads to an inclination to be proactive in increasing the efficiency and reasonableness of the external world, as well as a sense of self-worth connected on being involved and productive in activities seen as useful, profitable, or that increase one's knowledge base. To give out information that the individual knows not to be factually accurate is disturbing and avoided as much as possible.
Creative Te: It is manifested as a preference for factual accuracy over ideological consistency, and for objective, "harsh" communication over careful words that avoid a negative atmosphere. A view of the external environment being efficient, reasonable, and making sense is essential to their well-being and sense of inner peace, but they do not feel a pressing need for being proactive or productive themselves in that area.\
Since I'm not good at typing ppl, here is some examples which are considered Gorky LSI: https://socioniks.net/famouspeople/?...mousinspektora
so what was the main point or argument you were trying to get across?
From what I understand IEIs are not good at business logic & facts, but they like to philosophize and use Ti structural logic as a guide for their goals, at least up to a certain point.
For IEEs its supposed to be the other way round, they enjoy facts and business logic up to a certain point, but they have a hard time putting it all together in a way that makes sense.
IEI kinda want to understand how things are connected (the system). If you point out that they suck at managing resources and don't know the facts, that's gonna hurt.
IEEs kinda want to know the facts and what is more of a efficient use of resources. If you point out that they have a hard time explaining the system or how things are connected, that's gonna hurt.
Last edited by SGF; 09-05-2020 at 10:02 PM.
I think I've been very clear.
"facts and business logic" is a misnomer for Te. Now you clearly don't think so, since this is the second time you'd made that association and that's fine of course. But I've lost all interest at this point and wasn't looking to debate, but to clarify. So good luck with your socionics inquiry. And goodbye.From what I understand IEIs are not good at business logic & facts, but they like to philosophize and use Ti structural logic as a guide for their goals, at least up to a certain point.
For IEEs its supposed to be the other way round, they enjoy facts and business logic up to a certain point, but they have a hard time putting it all together in a way that makes sense.
IEI kinda want to understand how things are connected (the system). If you point out that they suck at managing resources, that's gonna hurt.
IEEs kinda want to know the facts and what is more of a efficient use of resources. If you point out that they have a hard time explaining things, that's gonna hurt.
e_e wtf did I say that you got all emotional and pissy for?
idk, as I understood Te is about the object and Ti is about the fields between objects. So Ti would be understanding connections between data while Te is the data about the object. Thats why I say Ti is "a system or structure" while Te is "facts and business logic". A car is a system of parts, like the human body is. What the liver is, is less interesting to me compared to how the liver functions within the system & why it's needed.
I'm not sure I'd ascribe finding purpose and meaning, something transcendental or wanting to believe in something greater than myself ..to Ti. At some point there you have to leave thinking behind and make leaps of faith.
So you can gain insight into:
Thinking vs Feeling
Sensing vs Intuition
Introversion vs Extroversion
The result of that is 2 types and you make the difference by temperament and trying fo figure out then how exactly they are processing information or which one of the 2 types they are more like.
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Related to other posts here.
I agree with jack about VI tho:
Last edited by SGF; 09-06-2020 at 01:56 PM.
My ESI-Se friend also likes to do this worldview building thing. I find his stuff with that fun somehow (nice Ni). He likes to delve into psychology and philosophy too. Numbers are not his strength though.
Anyway just my input. Feel free to do whatever with it, I barely play with socionics anymore anyway, life is too much fun for it lol
Plus I don't need mysterious codewords for normal stuff anymore
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