Duschia: How can an IEE submit to Dogma?

[Eliza Thomason]

Since this is off-topic on the Trump thread, started a new one for it.

So how can a freedom-loving IEE submit herself to rigid dogma?


The word "dogma" is popularly bandied about by folk these days as a bad thing, something terribly oppressing. But I find it is freedom.

Actually, Duschia, these other Q's aren't so hard to answer if I answer them one at a time.

But first, I would like to draw your attention to a quote I have kept at the bottom of my signature for a long time because it is timeless in explaining a great truth I subscribe to, and might answer your question of how I can be dogmatic. I am dogmatic because WHEN the dogma is TRUE, there is great freedom in it. And I love freedom. It's a big value for me.

Re: Freedom: Back when I was a Protestant [specifically: an Evangelical, "non-denom," Bible-alone, Faith-alone Christian], I was helping at a Vacation Bible Camp and we had the children singing a song about being free to do God's will in our lives. I remember kind of stumbling on that concept, thinking to myself, "Well that doesn't sound very freeing". So I continued to live my Christian life asking myself daily, "So what is my will for today?" while also praying, "Thy will be done." After so many years a Christian I am only just beginning to see the freedom and ease of asking instead each day, "What is thy will for me today?" But I am not very good at it yet. But I think it is the route to true freedom! One can soar! I have had dreams regularly throughout my life that I am walking, then running, then suddenly soaring over things and realizing I can easily fly if I choose, and I love it. I think maybe that is God's will for me (really for everyone), and where i am supposed to head, and then I will know soaring like I have only dreamed of.

The Quote: "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along by every wind of teaching, looks like the only attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"


So, I like what the Papa said there. One is actually freer being stationary and centered than when one is whipped about this way and that, or is spinning like a zoetrope. These things restrict ones movements!

I also know that one's freedom is severely limited when one's life and decisions are governed by lies and falsehoods. I chose Catholic Dogma because I sought truth, wherever it took me, and unexpectedly found it in the teaching and the dogmas of the Catholic Church, the last place I though I would ever find it. I was very happy as a Protestant. A little confused by some of their (scant) dogma, and confused by some inconsistencies and conflicts in it, but it was no biggie. I also was aware of some false teachers and how they badly affected some people's lives, and in fact there was a false teaching I had subscribed to that did bear (naturally) bad fruit in my life. But all I needed was Jesus, my Bible, and church with its fallible but mostly-nice people and rich fellowship.

It least it seemed that was all I would ever need but something nagged it me - there must be something more. So I began seeking more truth, and found it in a totally unexpected place, the catholic Church. Which caused quite a crisis in m life. It was for me, like many others, a pearl of great price.

How does it compare to IEEs intense dislike for 100% set judgement, (dogma not derived from actual Te) based organizations, and bits like 'their creativity sees nothing as predetermined' (see: Filatova)? IEEs also don't recognize formal subordination and 'see no piety towards authorities' (whether religious or not; see again Filatova on IEEs).

I know I do bristle at 100% set judgment. I suffered under the set ways of a strong Ti boss this year. It was awful. Yet recently I noticed that my very favorite priests, and I have known so many as I have never missed a Mass until covid, and at times I have often sought daily Masses to attend all over the place, that I am most blessed by is my current one as well as the priest who married us 6 years ago - and both happen to be strong, set in their ways LSIs! And it is their strong Ti qualities that contribute to how they bless me. They deeply know the beautiful teachings of our church. They are extremely devout and focus their intelligence and fierce loyalty on the true teachings of he church, and becasue of their presenting and teaching and living the whole truth they have blessed my life HUGELY and I am SO grateful for them. Particularly the one right now I feel is the greatest blessing in my life, the ture definition of a pastor who really if devoted to his flock and is going to cajole and pray us into living God's word. In both of the eyes of these priests there was one time each when I have seen them recognize me as some flying leaf compared to their stalward implacable beings. But that is fine because I recognize that as type difference immediately. And I defer to them, my pastor, father, priest.

Yes, I believe everything in this book:

.................................................. .......

Because it is ALL TRUTH, every word of it. There is GREAT FREEDOM in it, in every word.

More:
'Opponents of formulaic approaches and discipline' (Meged and Ovcharov)

Hmm, trying to think of a formulaic approach. Well, the basics of being Catholic you could call a formula, but I see freedom as the fruit of it. We are obliged to go to Mass every single Sunday as well as Holy Days and certain Feast Days. That is sort of like a Mom saying her child must have a healthy meal every day. The child is "freer" becasue the child is healthy from this formula/discipline. We eat the body and blood of our Lord Jesus at Mass each Sunday because Jesus said if we don't, we will have no life in us.

Having life in us is much freer than not having life in us.

In order to have this life we must receive worthily. So we have the Sacrament of Confession, another way God pours Grace down from Heaven on us. Through the priests, we hear with our ears that God forgives us our sins, so that we may be worthy to receive him. Its a pretty powerful formula.

In the same way basically go the rest of the dogma. They help us live free.

'They like to combine multiple things and ideas, rather than follow one thing to a logical conclusion' (Wiki composite)

Well this is true that I like this, and really that is Catholic. "Catholic" is said to be sort of "Here comes everybody". There are so many ways to be Catholic! Our role models, the saints, are legion, and they are all deeply inspiring in so very many, very different ways! Definitely not limiting.

'IEEs are skittish about any sort of long-term membership in relationships, groups, or organizations which would imply certain duties and limitations on their freedom. They worry about being trapped in binding relationships where there are rules and demands on them that — in their opinion — would squelch their impulsive, freedom-loving search for new and interesting things and people to experience. They can overreact even to minor rules that don't affect them — just as a matter of principle.' (Wiki composite)

Yes, this sounds a bit like me. Once again, there are so many ways to be Catholic, when one wants to go deeper you can join an apostolate or a 3rd order of any group, like the wonderful Franciscans, Carmelites, Salesians, Dominicans, Trappist, the Jesuits (Oops! Can that one!) - just to name a few. Each of these orders has a "rule"; to be a member you agree to live you life a certain way, certain many prayers a day, following these rules. There are so many wonderful, inspiring spiritual disciplines to practice, by being a 3rd order, or "lay" (not priest, not monk, not brother or sister but a regular person) member of these wonderful orders. a member. I want to join them all! Well, that's impossible, but I can't pick one because, yes, there are all those duties and disciplines to commit to, so I hesitate and then I never choose anything. Until I came upon The Apostolate for Jesus Christ the Returning King - that one could be mine, as the requirements and disciplines are very simple, very scant, so, lots of freedom and flexibility to suit me!

'They don't like to think about what others or "the system" might expect from them. They avoid clearly defining relationships, responsibilities, expectations, etc. and frequently feel threatened and overly rebellious when other people try to establish bounds and limitations that would affect them personally.' (Wiki composite)

Yes, sounds like the freedom restrictions I shrink from.

'IEEs' avoidance of commitment and general air of uncertainty and unpredictability can grate on some people — especially those who are trying to organize people for some joint task and need participants to follow certain conventions and behave predictably and obediently.' (Wiki composite)

Yeah, I think this is how my clueless (about my job) supervisor saw me this year.

'IEE is unable to work effectively within a rigid system that imposes too many restrictions.' (Gulenko)

Agree with all that!