Is the male aggressor romantic-style outdated?

[Number 9 large]

I feel like men are supposed to play it cool and let thirsty women do most of them work nowadays. It’s usually only unattractive, socially inept men who resort to chasing/“aggressor tactics”

Usually the person with the least sexual market value chases the one with the higher sexual market value

[Adam Strange]

Usually the person with the least sexual market value chases the one with the higher sexual market value

I don't know about the "sexual market value", but I am most attracted to a woman when she has some trait that I really admire. Some trait that makes her better than me in some area. That doesn't have to be sexual market value. I think, for me, it's beauty and intelligence, and both of those things are very individualistic.

I remember this one guy commented disparagingly on my first GF's looks when he didn't know we were going together. My reaction was, "How would you like a fist in the face?"*

For example, I can tell when a woman is objectively beautiful, and when I think she is beautiful and desirable, and the two don't overlap much. My ex-wife could look both stunningly, classily beautiful, and she could look mannish and slightly weird. And that's OK. And to those two characteristics (beauty and intelligence) I'm looking for, I've now added "a slightly low key sexuality". A look that says, "Hey, buddy. That door is open to you." But isn't stated explicitly. Rather, it's just thought.


*
"My hair is pale blond and wavy and I'm pretty. Not beautiful - Praxiteles would not have given me a second look - but real beauty is likely to scare a man off, or else make him quite unmanageable, whereas prettiness, properly handled, is an asset."

- Podkayne of Mars, Robert Heinlein.

[Number 9 large]

I don't know about the "sexual market value", but I am most attracted to a woman when she has some trait that I really admire. Some trait that makes her better than me in some area. That doesn't have to be sexual market value. I think, for me, it's beauty and intelligence, and both of those things are very individualistic.

I remember this one guy commented disparagingly on my first GF's looks when he didn't know we were going together. My reaction was, "How would you like a fist in the face?"*

For example, I can tell when a woman is objectively beautiful, and when I think she is beautiful and desirable, and the two don't overlap much. My ex-wife could look both stunningly, classily beautiful, and she could look mannish and slightly weird. And that's OK. And to those two characteristics (beauty and intelligence) I'm looking for, I've now added "a slightly low key sexuality". A look that says, "Hey, buddy. That door is open to you." But isn't stated explicitly. Rather, it's just thought.


*
"My hair is pale blond and wavy and I'm pretty. Not beautiful - Praxiteles would not have given me a second look - but real beauty is likely to scare a man off, or else make him quite unmanageable, whereas prettiness, properly handled, is an asset."

- Podkayne of Mars, Robert Heinlein.

SMV depends on taste to an extent but there are universal qualities that most people value like intelligence, accomplishments, interesting lifestyle, compatible personality and looks

[andreasdevig]

I don't know about the "sexual market value", but I am most attracted to a woman when she has some trait that I really admire. Some trait that makes her better than me in some area. That doesn't have to be sexual market value. I think, for me, it's beauty and intelligence, and both of those things are very individualistic.

I remember this one guy commented disparagingly on my first GF's looks when he didn't know we were going together. My reaction was, "How would you like a fist in the face?"*

For example, I can tell when a woman is objectively beautiful, and when I think she is beautiful and desirable, and the two don't overlap much. My ex-wife could look both stunningly, classily beautiful, and she could look mannish and slightly weird. And that's OK. And to those two characteristics (beauty and intelligence) I'm looking for, I've now added "a slightly low key sexuality". A look that says, "Hey, buddy. That door is open to you." But isn't stated explicitly. Rather, it's just thought.


*
"My hair is pale blond and wavy and I'm pretty. Not beautiful - Praxiteles would not have given me a second look - but real beauty is likely to scare a man off, or else make him quite unmanageable, whereas prettiness, properly handled, is an asset."

- Podkayne of Mars, Robert Heinlein.

Why are you violent? What exactly do you feel punching people in the face is gonna accomplish?

[Adam Strange]

Why are you violent? What exactly do you feel punching people in the face is gonna accomplish?

@andreasdevig, I was raised in a violent household where differences of opinion were settled by force. Wanting to punch that guy was a gut-level reaction. I don’t do that anymore. I discovered that violence only teaches other people to be violent. It is the low-intelligence and inappropriate approach to problem solving.

[Northstar]

@andreasdevig, I was raised in a violent household where differences of opinion were settled by force. Wanting to punch that guy was a gut-level reaction. I don’t do that anymore. I discovered that violence only teaches other people to be violent. It is the low-intelligence and inappropriate approach to problem solving.

I don't believe it's always how you were raised. My parents were the opposite of this and my gut reaction still has always been to punch assholes in the face.

[Adam Strange]

I don't believe it's always how you were raised. My parents were the opposite of this and my gut reaction still has always been to punch assholes in the face.

Well, OK, you’re right. I’m also an e8w7 so I have fast reactions to people trying to oppose or contradict me. However, I’m also smart enough and experienced enough to know that an animalistic reaction is counterproductive 99% of the time. The only thing it’s good for is to prompt the brain into action.

In the long run, it’s much better to turn your enemy into a friend. And the more they freely and voluntarily want to be your friend, the better the future becomes.

[Itsme]

I don't believe it's always how you were raised. My parents were the opposite of this and my gut reaction still has always been to punch assholes in the face.

Could also be a quadra complex reaction, for Gamma it is explicitly stated that they tend to react to transgressions by action, which is often translated to physical force.
I still think that there a certain situations where you deserve to be punched, and i think this is widely accepted norm.
It belongs to having a respectful interaction to react to certain ways of disrespect with challenging the other person to a fight.
This is usually widely understood and the only people who will cry wolf afterwards are (narcissistic) Alpha quadra Members imE.
Still could be a lot of sub-cultural imprinting that makes me think that way but usually, if your opponent is not a spiritually effeminate ESE, you are a lot cooler with each-other after things have been settled, no matter who has won, everybody has proven their point and you respect each-other more.

But yes, the gut reaction is probably something you (I) should get over, can also be an overreacting amygdala due to violent upbringing. I still don't think that violence has to be immoral but depending on the ehtical qualities of your opponent you give them ammunition they can use against you in a Society regulated by Si Valuing people.

[andreasdevig]

Could also be a quadra complex reaction, for Gamma it is explicitly stated that they tend to react to transgressions by action, which is often translated to physical force.
I still think that there a certain situations where you deserve to be punched, and i think this is widely accepted norm.
It belongs to having a respectful interaction to react to certain ways of disrespect with challenging the other person to a fight.
This is usually widely understood and the only people who will cry wolf afterwards are (narcissistic) Alpha quadra Members imE.
Still could be a lot of sub-cultural imprinting that makes me think that way but usually, if your opponent is not a spiritually effeminate ESE, you are a lot cooler with each-other after things have been settled, no matter who has won, everybody has proven their point and you respect each-other more.

But yes, the gut reaction is probably something you (I) should get over, can also be an overreacting amygdala due to violent upbringing. I still don't think that violence has to be immoral but depending on the ehtical qualities of your opponent you give them ammunition they can use against you in a Society regulated by Si Valuing people.

Not everyone belongs to your idea of masculinity. People are different. We're all individuals. I, for one, am one of those spiritually effeminate EIIs. I have Se PoLR and all of that. If someone physically attacked me, there would be no happy ending to that. Believe me. I would not be cooler with that person. I would hold a grudge forever, and never be abled to forgive or forget.

It's their body. They have the right to have it remain unharmed. Even if they're assholes, I do believe they have the right to speak their mind without getting beaten up. I do believe in freedom of speech. We can't just punch people just because we don't like what words come out of their mouth.

I don't believe it's always how you were raised. My parents were the opposite of this and my gut reaction still has always been to punch assholes in the face.

Maybe you picked it up somewhere else. It makes sense to me that if you treat someone with violence, then you're teaching them to use violence also. It's hard to pick up any positive lessons from a world full of negative people. You need a positive role model. You need to be exposed to positivity, wise people, etc. in order to grow as a person, in my opinion. If you're only exposed to negativity, violent people, etc. then there is no way to grow out of it, because you're not exposed to anything else.

[Dr PissBender]

Why are you violent? What exactly do you feel punching people in the face is gonna accomplish?

Nothing. He's the typical Se mobilising guy trying to let people know how TOUGH he is to hide some sort of insecurity.

Si polrs are the saddest fellas.

[nanashi]

Usually the person with the least sexual market value chases the one with the higher sexual market value

I disagree. I think assertive people or intense people or even just INTERESTED IN ROMANCE ppl (even the quiet ones) often act in ways to draw or approach people. I know many, many cases where the more conventionally attractive, educated, more privileged class person either intentionally acts to draw 1st or approaches 1st the person who is/has less of those traits. They have more resources to do so...

[Number 9 large]

I disagree. I think assertive people or intense people or even just INTERESTED IN ROMANCE ppl (even the quiet ones) often act in ways to draw or approach people. I know many, many cases where the more conventionally attractive, educated, more privileged class person either intentionally acts to draw 1st or approaches 1st the person who is/has less of those traits. They have more resources to do so...

yeah u can disagree but this is facts. and what u say doesnt contradict what i said

[nanashi]

yeah u can disagree but this is facts. and what u say doesnt contradict what i said

I can disagree....and, you've given no more evidence than I have

[SlytherinPower]

Usually the person with the least sexual market value chases the one with the higher sexual market value

Wouldn't always say that. I've spent a good amount of time chasing after a couple guys that I thought were less objectively attractive than myself.

[Number 9 large]

Wouldn't always say that. I've spent a good amount of time chasing after a couple guys that I thought were less objectively attractive than myself.

Read fhe first word of my fuckin comment

[SlytherinPower]

Read fhe first word of my fuckin comment

I'm unusual