Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
Sure, but I mean take something like a "ghost" and it falls into the same trap. Something has been observed, sometimes people have strange evidence, it is categorized to match an idea in culture (ghost, usually drawing from religions). It's called "supernatural" because it's seen as beyond what can be observed/understood in nature. It's assumed to be "not physical" in any sense that can be proven so this idea that it's from another realm or something factors in... I suppose that I am of the view that everything can be explained and there isn't anything "supernatural." It's all natural, it just isn't understood. Even if a ghost is an actual spirit of someone, that is natural. Anyway, I don't know that we're saying that different of things, just that I'm hesitant to call these "objects" anything at all, including craft. They are "something" however and there are explanations to be found/made.
Well, ghosts are kind of supernatural. All the physical properties of ghosts are basically natural things but I don't think what's generally referred to as a soul or consciousness is really natural. Even if you could make a soul like some sort of Frankenstein's Monster that soul would still be considered responsible for itself. If you program a robot a robot isn't considered to be responsible for itself, and I mean robots that actually exist, not I, Robot. So no, I don't think spooky unexplained phenomena are "the supernatural," but I think things that are actually more metaphysical than physical are. For example, moral naturalism always fails and ends up with Nazism and other dumbness. You can't get from people not liking being murdered to murder being bad, and murder being bad is a pretty obvious conclusion. In fact, liking murder works out the same as the utility monster problem. Dead people feel nothing if you don't believe in an afterlife, and people who want to murder for sport feel happy taking their lives, so if you're a utilitarian who doesn't believe in any kind of afterlife, why not support murdering for sport? So, I don't believe in ethical naturalism, though I do think thaumaturgical stuff like curing blindness, shooting fireballs, and floating is basically natural by definition.

(If you don't know the word thaumaturgy, or you only know it from Final Fantasy or Dungeons and Dragons, it's a very useful word to be familiar with. Basically, it means wonder-working, but it isn't really specific as to whether you mean the miracles of some particular religion, evil demons, mechanical magic, or any other potential source of inexplicable things.)