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Thread: LSE Males and Cheating

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    Default LSE Males and Cheating

    I've known a lot of LSE guys in my life so far, from coworkers to personal friends, and some I've been in romantic relationships with (I'm gay, EII).



    I've found 99% of these to be great guys in almost every aspect. There is just one small issue.... virtually all of these guys have been cheaters!!! (On their girlfriends / wives / boyfriends / me.)



    Some were trying to keep it secret. Others practically bragged about it. They all seemed to have the ability to rationalise (in their own minds) why it was somehow ok, as long as their partners didn't find out and thus didn't get hurt.




    By contrast, the LSE females I've been close friends with have been hardcore monogamists, with no apparent inclination to extramural activities.




    This makes me feel very hopeless and weary about dating my duals again in future. Maybe I am just better off keeping LSE's as friends and coworkers, and staying far away from them romantically?



    So I'm genuinely looking for answers on a few things:


    QUESTION 1.
    What is the actual proportion of LSE men out there (regardless of orientation) that are inclined to cheat, or remain faithful?

    QUESTION 2.
    Is this really a Socionic issue or more of a cultural issue? A symptom of our times, perhaps?

    QUESTION 3.
    Are all extraverted socionic types more inclined to cheat, since they all seemingly share a preference for "breadth of experience" rather than "depth of experience" (correct me if I'm wrong on that, but extraverts all seem to have an insatiable craving for novelty, coupled with the energy to actually pursue it).

    QUESTION 4.
    If that's the case, would I have better luck dating other EIIs, or possibly a SLI?




    I genuinely need advice on this because I'm at a bit of a crossroads, very jaded with LSE guys, and trying to figure out if I should actually just stay single forever.

    Last edited by Hawkeye; 07-15-2020 at 01:32 PM.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    This maybe cultural. Are you open to date men of other cultures? Also in some cultures estj men are whores so you are not entirely wrong. I feel for you
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    This sorta reminds me of SLEs, maybe they're mistyped? LSEs are more monogamous based on their description

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    This maybe cultural. Are you open to date men of other cultures? Also in some cultures estj men are whores so you are not entirely wrong. I feel for you
    /o\ wtf am I reading lol. I thought LSE would be ESTJ upright proper pillar of society man... <_< tho it maybe makes sense considering delta quadra's description of being kinda hippy-ish.
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    ― Carl Gustav Jung ―


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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    /o\ wtf am I reading lol. I thought LSE would be ESTJ upright proper pillar of society man... <_< tho it maybe makes sense considering delta quadra's description of being kinda hippy-ish.
    No they are not. They can definitely use Te to justify their actions and get carried away with sexual situations. Doesn't mean they won't feel guilty after. Type doesn't mean one won't cheat. Not type related
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Hm. ESTjs.
    First of all, the whole the life of the ESTj starts with a set of limitations that are accepted and planned on. Relationships are only an accepted limitation, a duty of sorts. They offer nothing as such, are utterly without value.
    Si is related to the quality of being able to achieve things despite these limitations. LSE are always about finding workarounds in practical life.

    If the ESTj is capable of acting like an ENTj every now and then, they may be able to understand the long term benefits of relations and accept the negatives with the positives.

    If the ESTj is full Si, the whole concept of relationships is only relevant on the most immediate practical of terms. A relationship exists only if it is an immediate concern. A person who is not present in the immediate has already withdrawn from the relationship and hence is not relevant anyway.

    As for the ESTj sexual thing... There's just more opportunity and market for ESTj males to be cheaters than ESTj females. Female ESTjs are not better people. They just have different opportunities and hence different solutions.

    Delta overall is about decreasing valuation of relationships, decreasing Fi. This effect is highest at the Si-Ne point. Delta is about destroying relationships.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    Delta is about destroying relationships.
    Disagree
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Disagree
    You would. INFjs enjoy relationships but without ISFj behaviour you're not building them, you're just running them out until nobody remembers you or cares about you. You're enjoying previously built capital. You don't want to destroy them the same way a kid doesn't want the ice cream to be destroyed when they munch through it enjoying every bit until there's nothing left.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    You would. INFjs enjoy relationships but without ISFj behaviour you're not building them, you're just running them out until nobody remembers you or cares about you. You're enjoying previously built capital. You don't want to destroy them the same way a kid doesn't want the ice cream to be destroyed when they munch through it enjoying every bit until there's nothing left.
    Bitter this morning?

    I would say that Fi is all about connecting with others but maintaining relationships would require expansive energy. For instance, my lovely SEE neighbor wanted to go to Trader Joes on Saturday and I too wanted to go so we went together and now it's Monday. I would love to call her to do something but I am a sloth, here I am in bed and I don't even want to get up and cook. Someone bring me coffee so I can get my ass moving. I am still thinking fondly of her and I wish she would reach out and come to my space where I feel comfortable and safe and I don't have to move my ass, but I know she's walking her dog or doing something else. I still have fond FEELINGS for her and I have already formed a relationship with her...not destroying it. Same with my relationships from over 30 years ago.

    Bitter much?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Bitter this morning?

    I would say that Fi is all about connecting with others but maintaining relationships would require expansive energy. For instance, my lovely SEE neighbor wanted to go to Trader Joes on Saturday and I too wanted to go so we went together and now it's Monday. I would love to call her to do something but I am a sloth, here I am in bed and I don't even want to get up and cook. Someone bring me coffee so I can get my ass moving. I am still thinking fondly of her and I wish she would reach out and come to my space where I feel comfortable and safe and I don't have to move my ass, but I know she's walking her dog or doing something else. I still have fond FEELINGS for her and I have already formed a relationship with her...not destroying it. Same with my relationships from over 30 years ago.

    Bitter much?

    You are depleting a thing she's building. She enjoys building, you're just enjoying her work.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    You are depleting a thing she's building. She enjoys building, you're just enjoying her work.
    here we go on a marry go round about again
    NO..disagree yet again.
    I connected with her initially when she was walking her dog. I reach out regularly to her to say hi to her or ask her about her dog. I asked her to go to TJ with ME. I took her and here she is not texting me.

    What is she building exactly? In your opinion of relationships.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    here we go on a marry go round about again
    NO..disagree yet again.
    I connected with her initially when she was walking her dog. I reach out regularly to her to say hi to her or ask her about her dog. I asked her to go to TJ with ME. I took her and here she is not texting me.

    What is she building exactly? In your opinion of relationship.
    It's quite possible that you engage in ISFj activities now and then. At those times you're not being delta, you're doing gamma work. If you do that, you will be capable of approaching the benefits of relationships longer. If you want to continue to have healthy relationships, you should emulate the ISFjs even more often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    It's quite possible that you engage in ISFj activities now and then. At those times you're not being delta, you're doing gamma work. If you do that, you will be capable of approaching the benefits of relationships longer. If you want to continue to have healthy relationships, you should emulate the ISFjs even more often.
    it's possible you are wrong.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    it's possible you are wrong.
    Good luck with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    Hm. ESTjs.
    First of all, the whole the life of the ESTj starts with a set of limitations that are accepted and planned on. Relationships are only an accepted limitation, a duty of sorts. They offer nothing as such, are utterly without value.
    Si is related to the quality of being able to achieve things despite these limitations.
    That sounds like the LIE way more than the LSE way. All LSEs I know have had a strong fear of ending alone and being disliked. Relationships don't bring value materially but they have a security value. I had a LSE tell me once "I would quit my job right away if I felt no one wanted to see me when I come to work every day". A bad relationship makes you feel uncomfortable, and LSEs are very sensible to that(Si). Si has nothing to do with a "quality of being able to achive things", unless you talk about one's health, strength and self-control.
    Jg djwjmjabujpo jt up tvswjwf, xf nvtu dvmujwbuf uif tdjfodf pg ivnbo sfmbujpotijqt - uif bcjmjuz pg bmm qfpqmft, pg bmm ljoet, up mjwf uphfuifs, jo uif tbnf xpsme bu qfbdf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    That sounds like the LIE way more than the LSE way. All LSEs I know have had a strong fear of ending alone and being disliked. Relationships don't bring value materially but they have a security value. I had a LSE tell me once "I would quit my job right away if I felt no one wanted to see me when I come to work every day". A bad relationship makes you feel uncomfortable, and LSEs are very sensible to that(Si). Si has nothing to do with a "quality of being able to achive things", unless you talk about one's health, strength and self-control.
    For once I agree.

    By the looks of how Adam and Smilex suck each-other off in the chat I'd say whatever their type, its the same.
    LSI-H - - Melancholy|Sanguine - 6w5-4-8 Sp/Sx - MBTI IST
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    ― Carl Gustav Jung ―


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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    That sounds like the LIE way more than the LSE way. All LSEs I know have had a strong fear of ending alone and being disliked. Relationships don't bring value materially but they have a security value. I had a LSE tell me once "I would quit my job right away if I felt no one wanted to see me when I come to work every day". A bad relationship makes you feel uncomfortable, and LSEs are very sensible to that(Si). Si has nothing to do with a "quality of being able to achive things", unless you talk about one's health, strength and self-control.
    You're partially correct. THe mind state that you're describing exists. It is a natural reaction to doing everything you can do get rid of relationships. This is why the next step is to start developing Fe. The people you're describing are thinking of getting on the ESFj train.

    And yes. A bad relationship (Te) is a horrible function that makes you feel bad. No wonder the people you know want to get rid of it. If they're thinking of quitting their job they hardly have any connection left to the Te aspect.
    Last edited by Smilex; 09-07-2020 at 06:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    QUESTION 1.
    What is the actual proportion of LSE men out there (regardless of orientation) that are inclined to cheat, or remain faithful?

    QUESTION 2.
    Is this really a Socionic issue or more of a cultural issue? A symptom of our times, perhaps?

    QUESTION 3.
    Are all extraverted socionic types more inclined to cheat, since they all seemingly share a preference for "breadth of experience" rather than "depth of experience" (correct me if I'm wrong on that, but extraverts all seem to have an insatiable craving for novelty, coupled with the energy to actually pursue it).

    QUESTION 4.
    If that's the case, would I have better luck dating other EIIs, or possibly a SLI?
    I don't think type can be directly tied to a tendency to cheat. Many things like culture, strength of libido and childhood experiences among others play into it, as @Beautiful sky mentioned.

    I have to say though that LSEs all have 1D Fi and as such have trouble putting themselves into other people's shoes emotionally(and when they do, they often capture only irrelevant details of the emotional experience). Moreover, LSEs men are often crippled in Fi because Fi is seen as so "useless". LSE men are often only taught Fi only through experience; I know that EII-LSE long term couple where the LSE cheated while the EII was abroad for work; the EII girl was very firm, she threw him out of her flat, and soon found another boyfriend. The LSE was so jealous and hurt he came crawling back asking for forgiveness; now they are back together for a couple of years already and he's pretty much an exemplary husband. You have to make it very clear what consequence their action has on the relationship or they won't respect you. Come on, you're an EII, you're the only one that can make them toe the line!

    From experience, the LSEs that liked me the most were the ones I was the most critical of. They need clear ethical judgements of their actions because they can't provide that for themselves.

    It could be that you don't feel confortable yet with this role and prefer to date a feeler; there is nothing wrong with that, but you'll soon feel concurrence in ethical judgements.
    Jg djwjmjabujpo jt up tvswjwf, xf nvtu dvmujwbuf uif tdjfodf pg ivnbo sfmbujpotijqt - uif bcjmjuz pg bmm qfpqmft, pg bmm ljoet, up mjwf uphfuifs, jo uif tbnf xpsme bu qfbdf.
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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    SmileX is LSE and he’s wrong about Delta destroying relationships because I’m his dual and I’m right. I think that people who destroy relationships are out to understand them or even search for something that works for them, but personally speaking my relationships carry on for decades and don’t get destroyed that easily. Is this a Gamma influence? I don’t think it is even if I have close Gamma relationships due to Gamma dual parents . Overall I would say Gamma do like getting together more than Delta and Delta like living in pairs in a fortress lol
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    SmileX is LSE and he’s wrong about Delta destroying relationships because I’m his dual and I’m right. I think that people who destroy relationships are out to understand them or even search for something that works for them, but personally speaking my relationships carry on for decades and don’t get destroyed that easily. Is this a Gamma influence? I don’t think it is even if I have close Gamma relationships due to Gamma dual parents . Overall I would say Gamma do like getting together more than Delta and Delta like living in pairs in a fortress lol
    LMAO

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    Good luck with that.

    You can be wrong you know
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post

    You can be wrong you know
    As I'm getting more and more into Si territory I'm learning to like your bits of humor.
    You're ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    SmileX is LSE and he’s wrong about Delta destroying relationships because I’m his dual and I’m right.
    Well, why are you on a forum on socionics to discuss stuff if you think being right all the time? Maybe you should write a book instead? Intellectual humillity should definitely be established as a new "delta" value.

    But I agree with you actually, delta is not about destroying relationships. Only a LSE with shitty Fi would think that, maybe that's what @Smilex is, i don't know him. Delta is about the avoidance of bad relationships for SLI and LSE (they have Fi-) and the cultivation and maintenance of peaceful relationships towards abstract entities (ex: love for humanity, respect for nature) for IEE and EII(they have Fi+ & Ne-).
    Jg djwjmjabujpo jt up tvswjwf, xf nvtu dvmujwbuf uif tdjfodf pg ivnbo sfmbujpotijqt - uif bcjmjuz pg bmm qfpqmft, pg bmm ljoet, up mjwf uphfuifs, jo uif tbnf xpsme bu qfbdf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Well, why are you on a forum on socionics to discuss stuff if you think being right all the time? Maybe you should write a book instead? Intellectual humillity should definitely be established as a new "delta" value.

    But I agree with you actually, delta is not about destroying relationships. Only a LSE with shitty Fi would think that, maybe that's what @Smilex is, i don't know him. Delta is about the avoidance of bad relationships for SLI and LSE (they have Fi-) and the cultivation and maintenance of peaceful relationships towards abstract entities (ex: love for humanity, respect for nature) for IEE and EII(they have Fi+ & Ne-).
    I was defending him. But glad you pulled data to support what I was saying, which I get lazy about doing since I already know the answers from having already read that.Awesome sauce.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Well, why are you on a forum on socionics to discuss stuff if you think being right all the time? Maybe you should write a book instead? Intellectual humillity should definitely be established as a new "delta" value.

    But I agree with you actually, delta is not about destroying relationships. Only a LSE with shitty Fi would think that, maybe that's what @Smilex is, i don't know him. Delta is about the avoidance of bad relationships for SLI and LSE (they have Fi-) and the cultivation and maintenance of peaceful relationships towards abstract entities (ex: love for humanity, respect for nature) for IEE and EII(they have Fi+ & Ne-).
    You don't get it but you're proving it. It's almost poetic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    You don't get it but you're proving it. It's almost poetic.
    I might have a clue of what you are talking about. Are you talking about "Te relationships", like in the previous post?(which basically amounts to Ti i guess?) Relationships of productive exchange of information and goods? I might relate to where your previous thought comes from.

    Honestly your posturing as if you had any clue of what I "get" is pretty much manipulative. If you want to be understood, explain, don't complain like some spineless bitch. I checked your profile and I think you're LIE-Ni. I have no time for your "victim" strategies.
    Jg djwjmjabujpo jt up tvswjwf, xf nvtu dvmujwbuf uif tdjfodf pg ivnbo sfmbujpotijqt - uif bcjmjuz pg bmm qfpqmft, pg bmm ljoet, up mjwf uphfuifs, jo uif tbnf xpsme bu qfbdf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I might have a clue of what you are talking about. Are you talking about "Te relationships", like in the previous post?(which basically amounts to Ti i guess?) Relationships of productive exchange of information and goods? I might relate to where your previous thought comes from.

    Honestly your posturing as if you had any clue of what I "get" is pretty much manipulative. If you want to be understood, explain, don't complain like some spineless bitch. I checked your profile and I think you're LIE-Ni. I have no time for your "victim" strategies.
    Bad communication is activity related lol
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Ok. I've had my bit of fun. I think this is worth going more into detail because it's kinda important.
    I'll give an equivalent example which might make it easier to understand for some people.
    Instead of Fi and delta let's talk Ni and gamma.
    Ni for the ENTj is the idea of opportunity. By seizing it, the ENTj defines it, makes it better, but also depletes it, turns it into something else. When the ENTj takes the idea of building a business and turns it into an actual business... the idea becomes calcified. The ENTj, once settled on their own business is less able to see or seize the benefit of new ones. They become ENTj- Te which is similar as a delta Fi-Ne becoming more and more Ne. Less and less able to create friendships and using the ones they've had for a long time more and more.
    The memory continues. The ENTj continues to think they're a man of business acumen, after all they proved their acumen with getting the working idea. THey prove it by living it. They think they could still replicate what they once did, but the original experience is depleted. The ability to get new insights is no longer as good as it once was. The qualities that Ni once offered are implicitly seen in the Te, in the business, but the root of the matter, the power behind it.... no longer there. The ability to regenerate, to recreate, long gone.
    The same happens to delta NFs and their relationships when they get more and more into the intuitive terrirory. Settle into it comfortably enough... It's done. You think it's still there. But is it? Can
    you still rebuild it? Or are you just relying on the same old, until they've passed on.

    Living a life is proper, but it's still the same as destroying a life. You spend it. Whatever you do, it's still gone. It's just various perspectives to the same thing. Each temperament with their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I might have a clue of what you are talking about. Are you talking about "Te relationships", like in the previous post?(which basically amounts to Ti i guess?) Relationships of productive exchange of information and goods? I might relate to where your previous thought comes from.

    Honestly your posturing as if you had any clue of what I "get" is pretty much manipulative. If you want to be understood, explain, don't complain like some spineless bitch. I checked your profile and I think you're LIE-Ni. I have no time for your "victim" strategies.
    That's the way to destroy relationships! Thank you for allowing me more proof in my victory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    That's the way to destroy relationships! Thank you for allowing me more proof in my victory.
    just because he or she has already decided where you stand in relation to him or her doesn't make him or her speak for all of us...get it?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    damn I just did some serious Fi there haha

    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    That's the way to destroy relationships! Thank you for allowing me more proof in my victory.
    I win.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    just because he or she has already decided where you stand in relation to him or her doesn't make him or her speak for all of us...get it?
    Of course not. You've got your own neurosis, they've got theirs, I've got mine. An ENTj isn't trying to destroy Ni. THey live by it, they crave it. And yet they still lose it. The same way you do with Fi. Enshrining it doesn't revitalize it. But you're doing the best with what you've got. And I think that's beautiful. Enjoy every moment.

    For the ENFp... there's actually a sort of internalized hatred of the weakness that Fi brings, making them feel they need to be one way, when they don't. The best thing they can get is freedom, to realize that they can push the Ne, push the ideas and it's enough. They don't need the Fi. It's just a weakness. It doesn't matter how bad lkdf's ideas are, they should still feel free to push them, to see them blossom, to not care about what others say about them. Set them free. What's important is the idea is theirs. That the idea and thought is real. That it's representative of the true them. If Fi has any point it is that the experience allows them to see the difference between how others define them and what they really are. Or something like that. They prefer to put the same words into opposite order but with the same meaning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    damn I just did some serious Fi there haha



    I win.
    Sorry. For you there's only eternal loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    Of course not. You've got your own neurosis, they've got theirs, I've got mine. An ENTj isn't trying to destroy Ni. THey live by it, they crave it. And yet they still lose it. The same way you do with Fi. Enshrining it doesn't revitalize it. But you're doing the best with what you've got. And I think that's beautiful. Enjoy every moment.

    For the ENFp... there's actually a sort of internalized hatred of the weakness that Fi brings, making them feel they need to be one way, when they don't. The best thing they can get is freedom, to realize that they can push the Ne, push the ideas and it's enough. They don't need the Fi. It's just a weakness. It doesn't matter how bad lkdf's ideas are, they should still feel free to push them, to see them blossom, to not care about what others say about them. Set them free. What's important is the idea is theirs. That the idea and thought is real. That it's representative of the true them. If Fi has any point it is that the experience allows them to see the difference between how others define them and what they really are. Or something like that. They prefer to put the same words into opposite order but with the same meaning.
    Where are you getting some of these outlandish theories from?

    I have won already in my heart and that is all that matters.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Where are you getting some of these outlandish theories from?

    I have won already in my heart and that is all that matters.
    Good that you feel so. I'm genuinely happy for you. I think you've grown during this conversation.

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    Smilex is LIE as hell and I welcome him in gay gamma NT arms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Well, why are you on a forum on socionics to discuss stuff if you think being right all the time? Maybe you should write a book instead? Intellectual humillity should definitely be established as a new "delta" value.

    But I agree with you actually, delta is not about destroying relationships. Only a LSE with shitty Fi would think that, maybe that's what @Smilex is, i don't know him. Delta is about the avoidance of bad relationships for SLI and LSE (they have Fi-) and the cultivation and maintenance of peaceful relationships towards abstract entities (ex: love for humanity, respect for nature) for IEE and EII(they have Fi+ & Ne-).
    Tbf Gulenko has changed this and now LSE and ILI have Fi+, while LIE and SLI have Fi-. Heh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    Smilex is LIE as hell and I welcome him in gay gamma NT arms.
    Oh, you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    Tbf Gulenko has changed this and now LSE and ILI have Fi+, while LIE and SLI have Fi-. Heh.
    Whispers -it’s all BS
    I still win

    I mean come on I love and hate humanity. I love them when they do good and hate them when they act like selfish greedy asses
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I might have a clue of what you are talking about. Are you talking about "Te relationships", like in the previous post?(which basically amounts to Ti i guess?) Relationships of productive exchange of information and goods? I might relate to where your previous thought comes from.

    Honestly your posturing as if you had any clue of what I "get" is pretty much manipulative. If you want to be understood, explain, don't complain like some spineless bitch. I checked your profile and I think you're LIE-Ni. I have no time for your "victim" strategies.
    Whining like a spineless bitch is a pretty damn effective way of being understood, just as long as you reason it out after you've had a whine.
    ἀταραξία

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