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Thread: IEI expressing oneself (not as in Fe)

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    chocolatte's Avatar
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    Default IEI expressing oneself (not as in Fe)

    This Spring I went biking around town with my dad and brother. I have developed asthma as a teenager (so, still learning my limits and everything), and I always feel like I have to keep up with them so even when my lungs start to close up a bit, I just suck it up and keep going until it's over.
    Usually it's fine because it's a short hill, but there was a really long, slowly inclining hill. We finally turned onto a side road, and once the pressure on my body eased up, that's when my lungs almost completely closed up and I was really wheezing for breath. This weird thing happens that whenever I get an asthma attack like this, I just start bawling (happened once before). My dad looked back and cue the Oh Shit Why is she crying again moment.

    Ok, but on the way back, we took it easy of course, but then I noticed, um my lungs are still kind of distressed and I'm still having some more-than-slight asthma. my dad asked maybe twice Are you ok? and every time I would say Yes.
    But it's like, I'm always waiting for the person to keep pushing it and eventually I'll admit that I'm not ok (of course my dad being ILI he always just leaves it). It feels like I'm always literally unable to bring up the fact that maybe I'm not okay (emotionally, physically..) unless the person really strongly keeps insisting Okay but are you really really really sure???! Idk how to explain it, if I do do it, I just feel SO uncomfortable..

    My SLI English teacher kept telling me this year that in literary analyses, my problem is that I always imply things but never clearly say them. Ofc to me it seems perfectly clear, but I really gotta spell things out apparently. Which I also don't like because it is not how I like to write.. it feels like an ugly writing style if you have to say things in such a.. not-soft explicit way. But he's right, ofc.

    From this, I realized I have this problem with being explicit, in all areas of my life. In everything I do, I just hint at things, so that the other person draws the conclusion. most of the time it works fine, but not always, obviously. I feel really uncomfortable if I have to say something explicitly, here are 2 reasons I though of:


    • in some cases, because I instinctively know that the person will believe you so much more if it's them who realizes the problem on their own, instead of you just telling them. i seem to try to guide them to the conclusion with all the clues
    • I think I just never trust that the person will believe what I say. very recently I've had instances of people just believing.. what I tell them.. which really surprised me.
    • when I say I feel this way, when so-and-so acts this way it's because of this, i have this impression of this, i have a feeling about this person... nothing I say ever seems to have physical evidence, but most of the time.. i know I'm very likely to be right.. but I know very well the other person would have no way of believing me (if I were in their shoes). and then if the other person doubts what I said it's just like.. ahh sorry should have just kept it to myself.
    • one of my closest friends is an ILE and I'm realizing that one reason she's the one person I can tell anything is because, she just always believes me. and if she doesn't, 95% I can convince her I'm right and she's like Omg how didn't I see this before, or otherwise she'll convince me otherwise. (me covering for her Fi-PoLR, is that what it is. cuz a lot of the things I tell her are things concerning other people or herself (she says I know her better than she knows herself))



    • i simply don't know how to "take up space" and speak up for myself.
    • (above) a while ago I had an english teacher who I strongly believe was IEI-Ni (in any case, she had very strong Ni. and very strong e1) in any case I felt like she sort of understood me the way I understood myself. my mom told me she said I have to develop some presence and learn to take up space. Like, when I walk into a classroom (ahh, looking back on her words.. she must be IEI and not ILI. has got to be..)
    • a digression: I did so well in her class.. I would get perfect scores on essays I wrote the night before in an hour. in contrast, with the SLI English teacher, I have never done so bad.. I mean yes, this is the hardest writing class I've done, but also, damn it writing is simply so subjective. i just hope all my english exam-graders next year are closer to my type xdd. Btw, both teachers are very good writers and teachers, it is not because one of them is bad.


    Um, well, I was going to talk about my mom, but I feel like I got to the core of the issue (took a while didn't it). The only thing I'd like to mention is that.. I think one reason I have trouble opening up to her is because she either 1) doesn't ask or mention anything although she notices something (in a Fi fashion) or 2) tries to force me to tell her something in a very aggressive manner (Se)
    What would be best for me is the latter but in a kinder, more understanding manner..

    bleh I feel like having stronger Se would solve a lot of my problems

    I'd be curious to hear anyone's point of view on all of this, and also any IEI's reactions to or experience or lack thereof of this whole thing I just described.

    (I also apologize if my writing style is at times choppy and hard to understand.. I'm kind of lazy about how I write on here, it seems)

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    My thoughts...

    1) A literary analysis class is not a creative writing class.

    2) Maybe you subconsciously refrain from explicitly saying things to people because you feel like those who are close to you should be attuned to your thinking/feelings and needs. To an extent I feel this is true for us all.

    About a parent, I think it’s reasonable to expect that they should be well attuned to if you have some physical condition like asthma, especially when taking you bike riding up and down steep hills.... your parent should not have an “oh shit why is she crying again” reaction to this and it also seems unhealthy to expect that.

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    Sometimes when I listen some IEIs they take a lot of time for explaining something without actually getting to the point. Its a ridiculous amount of time. I don't even know what they do exactly, but I think it could be related with Ni. Its like they take the historical roots of something for then speaking about the future for then giving 100 examples to try to explain something and that something at the end doesnt even get to be mentioned. Or to take a word and quote texts that mention that word but don't explaining what's the main meaning of the word and why it is important.

    It can be kinda annoying for me. If its something important I get irritated, if its not I just move from the convo.
    The why of this tendency could be in valued and weak and strong elements. A Ni approach with a Ti activity and weak Se. Like a need to go deep into issues and not let things "unsaid" (ironically letting unsaid the main issue) and not wanting to be to straightforward, but not being able to classify what's important/useful from what's not (Te PoLR) and don't knowing how to structure the ideas.

    edit. And yes, Se could fix that probably. I had an IEI male friend with Se family members and he could be blunt and didn't seem to have so much that problem (he could share his thoughts and opinion with success, conclude topics and develop ideas).
    I also wonder if the topics could or not be part of the problem too. Or even some have a need to be noticed somehow (like wanting to be different or original or smth like that).
    Last edited by Tommy; 07-14-2020 at 07:48 PM.

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    As a fellow IEI, I relate to some point.

    Regarding academic writing, I kinda have the same problem. I know I can lose my reader sometimes because I write long, very long explanations most of the time. Mostly by fear that I don't say enough, that the person will not get the point, or I think that maybe this tiny detail or example is expected by the grader and also because it helps me see if all my thought process I write on paper is coherent, correct without tiny mistakes. I remember when I sit the national end of HS exam in literature, in the end, I had to give my test papers to the supervisor of the room. I wrote ten pages that day and the guy looked at me like if I was completely crazy lol. Some teachers reproached me that sometimes but it never really impacted my grades. But at the very least I always state my point before doing any explanation and I always summarize my thought process at the end of the paragraph or at the end of a part. Just a very direct sentence here and there never hurt even if it's blunt and not highly well worded. Although I believe you already do that.

    For taking space and expressing myself, I may not be able to give the best advice as I kinda struggle with that as well, at least for taking space. Honestly, the only advice that kinda helps me was to take more confidence with my self-image. It helped me a little bit being more confident about inserting myself into places and take space. And there is also the famously known "fake it 'till you make it" and it's kinda true though. It may be hard sometimes but considering that everyone may have its own insecurities regarding confidence, taking space etc... and that we are not the only perpetual victims of that kind of torment can help. At least it helps to not be in the loop of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    But I find kinda puzzling your idea of "If I imply something instead of saying it directly to someone they'll understand better", why would it be better ?


    And I relate a lot of what you say with being uncomfortable admitting you're not feeling well. I'm kinda stubborn about that either because I don't want to bother my surrounding with temporary and trivial things or because people misinterpret my neutral face (like no, for the fiftieth time, I'm not depressed, I swear). And just in general, I feel kinda self-conscious and ashamed when I reveal too much how I'm feeling/personal information at a time.
    Honestly, the behavior of your father concerning your asthma isn't a normal thing, like your own parents should be indulgent about that, like having a chronic is a very big deal in the life of the person who suffer from it but sometimes it seems like healthier individuals can't even apprehend how it impacts someone.

    Anyway, Idk if that was very constructive or if I'm just renting endlessly but I genuinely relate to what you say, you're not alone in this lol


    Keep your spirits up, have a good day :).
    Last edited by spectremetrique; 07-14-2020 at 02:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Sometimes when I listen some IEIs they take a lot of time for explaining something without actually getting to the point. Its a ridiculous amount of time. I don't even know what they do exactly, but I think it could be related with Ni. Its like they take the historical roots of something for then speaking about the future for then giving 100 examples to try to explain something and that something at the end doesnt even get to be mentioned. Or to take a word and quote texts that mention that word but don't explaining what's the main meaning of the word and why it is important.
    Just try to listen YouTuber Michael Pierce. It is like I have figured everything in few secs and he goes on hours. Not that I listen it is clear just by listening few random snippets.
    Measuring you right now

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    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

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    Heaven and Hell Samson's Avatar
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    (not as in Fe)

    Why not? Fe excels at communication! Practice (as in, with people) assertiveness. You can look up thousands of videos on the Tube of You for free on this stuff. Sit with the material for a day if you must (introverts, I know), then put it to practice. Se will follow the Fe naturally, but for IEI, Fe is the clear winner in this realm.


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    Oh, you really need to have an asthma inhaler and keep it with you in all situations, especially when you do physically strenuos tasks out in the nowhere. I actually assumed this is a given when reading your story (I have a history with asthma, both in family & myself), but now I read @onfireee's suggestion and got concerned. You really never mentioned it ... You probably have one, right? Then sorry for commenting on this. Also you should keep doing physical exercise the way you want to, but if you hit the point where you get an actual asthma attack, it might be better to dial it down and do some lighter stuff.

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    chocolatte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynn View Post
    Oh, you really need to have an asthma inhaler and keep it with you in all situations, especially when you do physically strenuos tasks out in the nowhere. I actually assumed this is a given when reading your story (I have a history with asthma, both in family & myself), but now I read @onfireee's suggestion and got concerned. You really never mentioned it ... You probably have one, right? Then sorry for commenting on this. Also you should keep doing physical exercise the way you want to, but if you hit the point where you get an actual asthma attack, it might be better to dial it down and do some lighter stuff.
    I usually have it, but this time I didn't. I don't have a habit of bringing it when I bike, because the asthma goes away as soon as I stop. The times I really need my inhaler are when it's allergy season, and nothing will make it go away.
    You're right though, I should not be so quick to assume, and I should always have it with me just in case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    2) Maybe you subconsciously refrain from explicitly saying things to people because you feel like those who are close to you should be attuned to your thinking/feelings and needs. To an extent I feel this is true for us all.
    After letting it sit for a bit, I think you're right about that..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Sometimes when I listen some IEIs they take a lot of time for explaining something without actually getting to the point. Its a ridiculous amount of time. I don't even know what they do exactly, but I think it could be related with Ni.
    The why of this tendency could be in valued and weak and strong elements. A Ni approach with a Ti activity and weak Se. Like a need to go deep into issues and not let things "unsaid" (ironically letting unsaid the main issue) and not wanting to be to straightforward, but not being able to classify what's important/useful from what's not (Te PoLR) and don't knowing how to structure the ideas.
    sounds like me
    It feels like I need to explain every single facet and background information of the main point, because I want people to understand what I'm saying in exactly the same way I understand it. I rarely feel like people do. But of course, everyone understands things in their own way, and it's not a bad thing..
    maybe it's a Ne ignoring thing?? Once I latch onto one interpretation of something it's hard to get myself to truly genuinely consider a different perspective.

    @COVID 007 I watched some of his videos and I totally see where he's coming from in how he chooses to explain topics. but I admit, seeing this process from an outside POV, it is slightly absurd.. I kind of laughed at his "About" : My purpose is to be clear, rational and consistent in my explanations
    ughhhh the discrepancy between how we see what we say and how others see it

    Quote Originally Posted by spectremetrique View Post
    But I find kinda puzzling your idea of "If I imply something instead of saying it directly to someone they'll understand better", why would it be better ?
    Kind of like "show and not tell"?
    Like, imagine you just took the reader on a nice journey bringing them to realize something, and then instead of leaving them at their quiet realization and ending it there, you insert a brusque, unnecessary repetition of what they just figured out themselves ..
    nahh I'm just bad at being explicit in a natural way

    And I relate a lot of what you say with being uncomfortable admitting you're not feeling well. I'm kinda stubborn about that either because I don't want to bother my surrounding with temporary and trivial things or because people misinterpret my neutral face (like no, for the fiftieth time, I'm not depressed, I swear). And just in general, I feel kinda self-conscious and ashamed when I reveal too much how I'm feeling/personal information at a time.
    I always dismissed the thought that it's because I don't want to bother my surroundings, but I'm thinking more and more that that's the reason why. You're just bad at taking up your own space goddammit
    Also, yeah, I always get asked if I'm sad the times I'm not xd The times I genuinely am sad I don't usually get asked anything, I think because in those cases I start looking very unapproachable in addition to just sad lol

    Anyway, Idk if that was very constructive or if I'm just ranting endlessly
    heh. are we the same person? and no, it was constructive!


    Quote Originally Posted by onfireee View Post
    honestly. it's just practice. (communicating what's on your mind)

    for some, it comes easy, for others....they blossom later. just imagine yourself as a caterpillar...one day you will be a pretty butterfly, freely spreading your wings and expressing yourself.

    when u encounter random people, try to make it a challenge to push the conversation as long as possible without running away. when u get home to reflect, write down everything that happened and things u can improve on.

    there could be other barriers perhaps ur unaware of (maybe u were afraid of showing weakness?)

    communication, we all have our ways of doing it so don't be too hard on yourself. u'll find a style that works for u. try not to compare ur journey or style with others

    as for the breathing thing. work ur way up, slowly. also consider asking a Dr. for an asthma inhaler just in case
    thanks
    can't wait to become a butterfly. I always wonder how different I'll be when I'm 70. just in a year, I change so much.

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    chocolatte's Avatar
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    Have been speaking with my parents a lot because as of late because they're very frustrated with my lack of communication
    Of course, I've never seen it this way. (me?? bad at communication?? psh. but then again, we also had a different perspective of what "bad at communication" means)

    Anyway, it's weird to realize the things you've taken for granted to be true are just a result of your own warped perspective of things/worldview. how can you ever know if the way you're seeing something is the right or wrong way? then again, I probably have an overfocus on needing to know if I'm looking at something right. and trying to figure out the ultimate way of seeing something.

    hope I'm making some sense, lol. The simplest conclusion is that I should go out more

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    After letting it sit for a bit, I think you're right about that..
    [...]
    It feels like I need to explain every single facet and background information of the main point, because I want people to understand what I'm saying in exactly the same way I understand it. I rarely feel like people do. But of course, everyone understands things in their own way, and it's not a bad thing..
    Even if you don’t see it as a bad thing directed at others as people, it seems like maybe you feel frustrated about this, and perhaps even maybe bitter about communicating and socializing?

    You should try to practice explaining yourself more with people who seem to “get” you more than average. Then it may get easier to do with other people too, and you’ll be able to build up more positive associations in your brain with doing it. You can even ask these people to give you feedback on how to better communicate and explain yourself.

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    @chocolatte: everyone else beautifully touched upon the important main points.

    But regarding writing: what works for me, an EIE-NI type, is to write out the main idea first. Essentially, what is the overall theme that connects everything together? Then I lock down the 3-5 points/examples that would best illustrate the conclusion and consider the message that I want to convey to the audience. If the points/examples become convoluted, then I restructure the paper into subheadings for crucial sub-points.

    At the very end, I summarize the main takeaway in 3-5 sentences. This type of approach helped me breeze through all sorts of college courses, including literary analysis courses.

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