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Why Is It Seen as Unlikely to Be Close With Conflictor Types?
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Last edited by COMEUPPANCE; 02-01-2021 at 12:04 PM.
Imo the conflictor relations can be divided in two separate groups: the ones who avoid each other, but when interacting can be cordial with some detachment (as you said they won't get you at the deepest existental level), and the ones who have a conflicting relation that might cause actual arguments. Depending on the people these can overlap.
For example, just from observation I've seen ILE get into arguments with ESI way more often, because they both seem somewhat combative in terms of their interests and values. LIE and SEI would probably politely stay away from each other. SLE and EII as well, or the SLE will put pressure on the EII until they snap/remove themselves. Ime LII and SEE just don't interact, and when we do we talk about superficial things with a detached interest.. Etc.
Idk if many people assume horrible relations. I'm sure we've all met conflictors. And I don't think it's impossible to have good relations with conflictors, but they'll always be in some way superficial because going deeper might be too painful or just straight up unachievable because you're too different.
If you assume romantic closeness, living together, then that might be hard. But I don't see why not if you're mature people who want to be friends.
Subtypes make a difference and there isn't a huge difference in the amount of discomfort my duals have given me compared to my conflictors. My duals are much more willing to help me when I need it, but I really think I piss my conflictors off without trying to more than they piss me off... but they don't say much, as ILE-Ti aren't the most direct people (i prefer when they are direct and speak their mind directly, but they don't usually do that). I've spent more time with ILE-Ti than LIE of either subtype and I had to leave an LIE counselor because he kept yelling, was totally imprudent, and hated farting so much. And I usually dislike EIE more than I dislike ILE anyway and I'm nowhere near as likely to actually like an EIE to the levels as I am to like an ILE-Ti.
LSI-Se, ILE-Ti, and SLE-Ti are more comforting than other types, I guess because they're static and Ti egos, so they're usually in touch with reality, they'll be somewhat prudent, and don't seem as forceful and they have Fe so they can read me but they don't over do it, so that's why I usually like them, although SLE-Ti narcissism and forcefulness and being convinced (or joking) that they're right while being blustery about it when they're wrong can be quite annoying.
Enneagram makes a difference. 6s and 9s are usually easy for most people to get along with and usually get along with other people, especially 9s.
I don't usually like my identicals, at least not the ones of the same subtype.
I'm just not very easy to get along with really.
I feel like there are assholes of every type tbh as far as antagonizing people for sport goes. I know some people might think there's some dualistic split between judicious people being nice and decisive people being mean but I don't think that's the case. People adapt to their environments. I've known mean Si egos for example. So yeah I think it's pretty possible for someone like an EIE to not like that kind of behavior.Originally Posted by JustWandering
It's natural to feel threatened around people who are genuinely threatening lol.
There are plenty of people who can't get along with their own quadra because they can't get along with anyone really. If you're not willing to curb your crazy or take others into consideration, that's generally what happens.
Cuz mechanically speaking they are strong where ur weak but also don't "naturally" cover up ur weak points so its awkward/weird to be close to them.
If you both are aware of socionics and use it as a tool to improve human relationships rather than the more narcissistic 'this is just who I am. If nobody likes it, sucks to be them' identity thing.. You can then sort of bypass this more natural state and still try to get along although I think it would be fair to say you are both faking it in an effort to keep the peace.
There is 16 base types but every person is unique and u just like them regardless of socionics. Also sub-types. I get along much better with the Si subtype LSE then the Te one lol.
Antagonistic duals can be bad yeah and exactly for the reason you said. They have all your weaknesses as their greatest strengths. They can help you very easily or they can make life hard for you lol.
There was a story arc on an old show called Dexter where he faced off against a serial killer who was his dual. It was probably the most dangerous position he was ever in, and he lost the most as a result of trying to get rid of him. It was what caused his first girlfriend to get killed. Who coincidentally enough was also his dual.
Another example: LII Maxwell Sheffield to ESE Fran Fine: "I can beat anything, anything, but you're like kryptonite." She can't really beat him either though because she's gotten used to the lifestyle he's given her and doesn't want to lose that.
I know an LSE who liked me and respected me (and vice versa) and we didn't completely talk shit about each other although there was some, there was some genuine mutual respect there. Although I can't ever say I was CLOSE with this person cuz her natural LSE-ness just... rubbed me the wrong way. But I did and still do respect her.
It was still confliction, I mean conflicting relationships don't necessarily need to be 'I want to strangle out your soul with my bare hands and watch the life slowly slip away from your eyes' lol - god if anything that is more Duality gone wrong probably? lol ppl can sometimes confuse hatred and sadism and just not liking a person with conflicting psychology.
Asymmetrics do that imo but I'm not sure. I don't think duality does that maybe but not because it's duality. I think anyone who makes your life painful enough will inspire some degree of hatred or anger.
And yeah that's right about general people problems being confused with Socionics.
In bad IR is _harder_ to have good _friendship_. Those people like what you don't - other values. And influence on you by those "alien" values, want your activity by those values. Conflictors influence where you are weak. Also those people do not give you a support where you want it - as values differ, life views, methods which people prefer. Conflictors have as strong what you want, they even may understand what you want - but it seems as wrong or not interesting for them to do that and so they don't do enough.
What a human with other values thinks as acceptable and even good may annoy you a lot and he don't even expects this.
Friendship is when you share thoughts, feelings, interests, life events - you exchange with each other as persons, you join minds and lives with other human. The more alien another human is - the harder for you is do this, will need more efforts, will be lesser pleasant. The more informal and natural your opponent behaves, the more you tune to him - the more IR effects will be.
You may get negative influence on your psyche even when nothing bad happens. With conflictors you may have a common talk and feel unusually tired after, for example. Conflictors supress and disorient your psyche, in some sense. Unlike duals which make you to feel more optimisticly and higher inner harmony.
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Only experience may explain you IR theory. When you try to be friends and many communications, which mean to support each other as friends. A romance is common example when people are attracted by sexual passion to random types and notice all that IR theory. Another case is parrents and other relatives with which we are connected for much informal communications by not our decision.
Types examples: video bloggers, actors
Conflicting pairs can be helpful to one another and I've seen one of these relationships being quite close and long lasting. However, their goals, methods and approaches tend to be so divergent that they never seem to remain on the same path preferring to live separate lives. Now, many of these couples can live together, share expenses, be respectful and do things for one another without having to really cooperate on much of anything - like a power couple perhaps so children would not not recommended. It may sound rather odd but if separation of lives can be maintained, they can be rather close.
a.k.a. I/O
I'm possibly ESI, I've generally been a selfish person. I had initially thought Fi was my leading IE (because I have such strong emotional reactions to some people and some things and some situations and because I'm moralistic about some things/people, but still a lot of it has to do with my anger towards those things and I don't always think about morality when making decisions I often think about functionality, satisfaction, what makes sense, beauty/is aesthetically pleasing, not necessarily in that order), but also the description for LSIs at sociotype.com seemed to fit me slightly better than the ones for ESI and EIE. In spite of possibly being ESI, I'm not skilled with Fi at all; I've used/attempted to use Fe, Te, Ti, and Si just as much throughout my life and I don't dislike Ne much. I usually don't know what people like and want and hate and I'm not even always sure if I like or dislike someone or something and I'm not very empathetic although some people see me as empathetic, I'm really not... I tend to say and do and demand what I want and am not usually willing to do whatever others ask of me unless i think i may benefit from it.
Thank you. Sorry.
I personally don't see it as all that clear cut. I see Socionics as providing a model, and to use the model requires reductionism. The point is then to expand it back out after one feels they understand it well enough, to allow back in the true spectrum of humanity that doesn't easily fall into these limiting categories (good luck). It's like when you first learn about derivatives in math and at first they start with the clunky breakdown, before you learn how just use equations. The clunky breakdown is just a means to jog the mind into understanding something that transcends the clunky breakdown.
ESIs: I appreciate them, respect them, and they don't bother me, but we both are very conscious of the fact that we are totally different and do not understand each other on a root level. If I am going to actually get into an argument it will be with a Delta NF FAR more likely than a Gamma SF (I actually enjoy SEEs for the most part - they're fun and can take a joke). I think the conflict occurs with Delta NFs because we are seeing the same thing, but analyzing it totally differently, so we often end up in the same realm defending opposing viewpoints. ESIs and me are typically in totally different realms, so we just sort of let the other one do their thing.
Why Is It Seen as Unlikely to Be Close With Conflictor Types?
Because they don't do socionics. They do astronics.
This is very true. I’ve heard stories of conflictor parents sounding like this, and have known someone in a conflictor relationship for 7 years. They were like a power couple with similar career goals... more like identical in that sense than duals who could mutually support each other. It’s more like they had parallel and similar goals than the “same” convergent goals.
I have always noticed that conflictors can have a lot in common and they are like “dark horse identicals” to my understanding because of this. Opposite strengths with opposite values. Double negative creates a positive, mathematically.
Others on here have noticed that identical twins can often be conflictor types.
When animals or plants fight in nature, it’s usually because they are vying for the exact same space and resources, not different or opposite resources. This is why duality works. Because duals “need” different resources. The fact that conflictor types conflict implies that they have some overlap in the space they occupy or the kind of resources they need.
However, like anything with a little interpersonal knowledge these things can be tweaked so that conflict isn’t reached.
In my experience you can get along well with a conflictor but you can't really get close. The answer is in the functional profile, as you know. There's not much to do about it. Maybe you can understand each other on some level, but mere understanding will not help you much in a relationship.
If your conflictor is SLI then you might not notice so much of the incompatibility, because Si bases are often well-adapted and hide their base function more than other types. But that doesn't change the nature of this relation.
Of course it is a limiting view of the world. That's the whole point of socionics that certain factors have been found that limit relationships.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
And you have typed your friend correctly? So he is not just a harmonizing subtype that you have mistyped as a SLI. Just asking. I have seen conflictor best friends. The friendship lasted for some years when they were very young. Now they never see each other.
It's definitely not the totality of human experience. But it's pretty well known that conflictor relations are problematic. I have a conflictor friend myself. We meet max every second year for a short time.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Like duals, they really don't overlap. However, when they're forced to overlap on something like projects, joint property or children, they tend to want to move them in very different directions. When all affairs and property are separate, they get along very well. Indifference to the affairs of the their partners certainly isn't any assurance that they'll stay together but it also won't drive them apart. Duals have a sort of gravity-like attraction whereas for conflict partners, its more electrostatic that requires the positive and negative to remain separate.
a.k.a. I/O
In my experience they actually kind of do. With conflictor types, the conscious and unconscious IEs are going to be the same. So if they tend to put conscious focus on the same kinds of information, that may lead to having similar interests and conclusions about things. The rest I can agree with.
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