Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Life with a dual - criticism

  1. #1
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Finland
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    2,709
    Mentioned
    200 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Life with a dual - criticism

    Seems the old thread is closed so I'll continue here:

    @Northstar
    The flipside could be that they lack some other type of growth instead in this case so it's not necessarily any proof that dualization would be harmful.
    I think I have enough proof at this point that duality will keep you focused on your conscious side, not taking on the challenges of superid. The dual provides it for you. That's the blessing and curse of duality. It's obvious that this will prevent growth.

    I think it's funny how in thread SEI talks about the need of change and LII praises a tolerant and competition-free atmosphere.
    hmm, I don't understand what you mean.

    Many socionics texts on relationships seem surprisingly naive with their idealization of duality over other types of intertype relationships.
    Socionics idealizes duality but they have good reasons for doing so, especially within the limited framework of Socionics. Duality can be great, it is just that there are more things to consider. Socionics is not really psychology. Or very limited psychology.
    Last edited by Tallmo; 06-23-2020 at 01:12 PM.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


    My Pinterest

  2. #2
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    8,570
    Mentioned
    939 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Tallmo, could you include a link to the closed thread, so future readers can easily find it?

  3. #3
    Northstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    SLE 8w9 sx/sp
    Posts
    776
    Mentioned
    83 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    hmm, I don't understand what you mean.
    I just thought your arguments hinted at Ne seeking in your case and Se PoLR in rebelondeck's case. An observation that your definitions of what's good in duality reflected your respective types.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    12,148
    Mentioned
    1111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    noobs doing a criticism of what they do not understand
    due to the lack of knowledge and experience
    and typing mistakes they are common to do
    especially when it's also own types

    nuff said
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  5. #5
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,347
    Mentioned
    630 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Speaking as a married woman....
    Duality is great only when both people know their type and self very well
    My husband comes from a very good understanding of his type as his mom is also LSE and he is and his mom is a professional mbti practitioner for 30 plus years at a corporate level.

    Had he not know his type and why his Te assess information the way it does he wouldn’t stop to listen and hear that when I say something it is exactly what he is thinking

    Is duality promoting growth no. Growth and development is up to you not your dual. My dual just provides protection in a physical sense, financial security, companionship, and comfort. I grow myself by taking the time to read and learn in my interests and hobbies. Don’t expect your dual to inject knowledge in your head :/
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  6. #6
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ministry of Love
    Posts
    6,573
    Mentioned
    119 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    According to what I've read, input from your dual's strong functions helps to raise the level of creativity of your strong functions, by feeding you with data and impressions you never would have otherwise considered. Ne works better, and is more exciting, in an environment with lots of Si, and so on... It's probably good for your self-development to find a dual that doesn't try to do everything for you, though.
    Last edited by xerxe; 06-24-2020 at 12:48 AM.

  7. #7
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    4,280
    Mentioned
    303 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    According to what I've read, input from your dual's strong functions helps to raise the level of creativity of your strong functions, by feeding you with data and impressions you never would have otherwise considered. Ne works better, and is more exciting, in an environment with lots of Si, and so on... It's probably good for your self-development to find a dual that doesn't try to do everything for you, though.
    I think that’s right according to Jung. A dual would help you strengthen your strong functions yet maybe put less pressure on your weaker functions developing more. Other types would help you feed into your strong functions less, causing you need to use your weaker functions more to generate more info, putting more stress on your entire system, yet possibly also forcing more development on weaker functions.

  8. #8
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,480
    Mentioned
    127 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    A dual only contributes to the team, and usually and most importantly, doesn't interfere with their partner's thinking processes. Non-interference implies not trying to get into the other person's head or to supplant their ideas. On average, this helps to create a conducive environment and or harmonious team but there certainly isn't melding or merger of minds or souls, or functions. I don't often pair duals for many projects because although they often get along with one another, their skill sets are so different that they don't usually pull on the same oars.

    a.k.a. I/O

  9. #9
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,657
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Socionics is not really psychology. Or very limited psychology.
    Socionics is on the boundaries of personality psychology, social psychology, sociology and cultural anthropology. If you have a basic understanding of these four disciplines, Socionics suddenly makes a lot of sense.

    https://mavericksocionics.blogspot.c...socionics.html
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

  10. #10
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,657
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I don't often pair duals for many projects because although they often get along with one another, their skill sets are so different that they don't usually pull on the same oars.
    This is an important realization. Dualization does not so much mean two people can work together effortlessly, its more like responsibilities and tasks get automatically distributed according to personal skills and strengths. This is what I see each and every time in dealings with SLI cooks: things run very smooth, not so much because we work together on the same problem, but different problems get distributed very smoothly, almost without communication.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

  11. #11
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Finland
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    2,709
    Mentioned
    200 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Socionics is on the boundaries of personality psychology, social psychology, sociology and cultural anthropology. If you have a basic understanding of these four disciplines, Socionics suddenly makes a lot of sense.

    https://mavericksocionics.blogspot.c...socionics.html
    Right. It's definitely psychology, but limited, so I guess I exaggerated a little. The beauty is that Socionics /Jung has discovered a limited well-defined part of the mind to study. That's great as long as one remembers that this is in no way the whole picture.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


    My Pinterest

  12. #12
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,347
    Mentioned
    630 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    A dual only contributes to the team, and usually and most importantly, doesn't interfere with their partner's thinking processes. Non-interference implies not trying to get into the other person's head or to supplant their ideas. On average, this helps to create a conducive environment and or harmonious team but there certainly isn't melding or merger of minds or souls, or functions. I don't often pair duals for many projects because although they often get along with one another, their skill sets are so different that they don't usually pull on the same oars.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Plus I’m weaker physically so I don’t work well in physical projects maybe because I’m a woman however it depends on the field. The dual LSE and EII men at work find it easy and comfortable to work together because they are doing medical work and they are all males
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  13. #13
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,480
    Mentioned
    127 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Plus I’m weaker physically so I don’t work well in physical projects maybe because I’m a woman however it depends on the field. The dual LSE and EII men at work find it easy and comfortable to work together because they are doing medical work and they are all males
    Are those duals doing exactly the same job? Physical characteristics aside, I found that duals with equivalent training tend to focus on much different aspects of the same field. Perhaps with more narrowly defined jobs, there's not as much leeway.

    a.k.a. I/O

  14. #14
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ministry of Love
    Posts
    6,573
    Mentioned
    119 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I think that’s right according to Jung. A dual would help you strengthen your strong functions yet maybe put less pressure on your weaker functions developing more. Other types would help you feed into your strong functions less, causing you need to use your weaker functions more to generate more info, putting more stress on your entire system, yet possibly also forcing more development on weaker functions.
    Yeah. I don't 'click' with all duals, but when I do, it's eerily easy to express yourself. That said, duality relations aren't always easy to start, because of initial hurdles in understanding or communication... you need to put effort into them, just like anything else.

  15. #15
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,347
    Mentioned
    630 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Are those duals doing exactly the same job? Physical characteristics aside, I found that duals with equivalent training tend to focus on much different aspects of the same field. Perhaps with more narrowly defined jobs, there's not as much leeway.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yes they are all nurses with the same duties
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  16. #16
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,480
    Mentioned
    127 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Yeah. I don't 'click' with all duals........
    I've seen duals fight big time in work environments. Usually, one of them was ill-suited to the job that they were supposed to do. Incompetence trumps duality every time - unless they're doing something else on the side.

    a.k.a. I/O

  17. #17
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,872
    Mentioned
    275 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    noobs doing a criticism of what they do not understand
    due to the lack of knowledge and experience
    and typing mistakes they are common to do
    especially when it's also own types

    nuff said
    But then, there are non-noobs who once they've figured their type they refuse (or take umbrage at the idea) to question it because they already decided it. Why is that? Perhaps they lack the self-knowledge, or the true understanding of Socionics types? Or is there instead some Socionics qualities that make it harder to revisit that identity they have adapted? It would be interesting to explore which Socionics qualities these are.

    One I have often noticed is the Renin Constructivist/Emotivist, where the constructivist - has "emotional 'anchors' (eg, books, films, places) which they use to support their internal emotional state." I believe they are emotionally anchored in their chosen type and no matter how logical/rational they may be otherwise, they do not want to revisit or challenge that which they are anchored to. There are probably other things too, like Cognitive styles. Some are more restrictive about revisiting old decisions, probably.

    Then their are noobs who seem to grasp a lot with accuracy right off. Just sayin'.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •