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Thread: Unhappily Married Dual Couples

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    Default Unhappily Married Dual Couples

    Or long term relationships. Discuss.

    Edit: If it wasn’t obvious, I am looking for concrete IRL examples. I’m not contesting the idea that they exist. This is to collect data to try to look for patterns.
    Last edited by sbbds; 06-21-2020 at 06:38 AM.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    LSE and EII two of them one the husband cheated on her compulsively with his best friend’s wife who is a gold digger and the EII found out and divorced him. The second the LSE husband promised to move to another state but didn’t
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    LSE and EII two of them one the husband cheated on her compulsively with his best friend’s wife who is a gold digger and the EII found out and divorced him. The second the LSE husband promised to move to another state but didn’t
    Why do you think these things happened between these couples, Maritsa?

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Why do you think these things happened between these couples, Maritsa?
    The ethics in me judges on the character of these people... good/bad and helps me determine with what kind of people I would form relationships with but the semi realist in me says that some people have their sex drives detached from their personal responsibilities to their family who they chose to form and put their kids and wives husband ms whatever in great emotional distress at their terrible choices. So why does this happen? Do people suck? Are they just careless and irresponsible? Or do they just want sex like their head or thinking parts are cut off? The last question... they just want sex without the responsibilities because it’s the easy road
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Or long term relationships. Discuss.
    Not socionics related of course. It's not hard to think of dual couples where one of them is unhealthy.
    The only "difference" is mental compatibility, as you already know.

    *****

    I have a friend, that I have a very good compatibility with. We laugh just looking at each other. And I rarely can hide anything from him because we can read each others minds pretty well. But recently he has been involved with very damaging friendships and he's going down the Stairway to Hell. I am starting to have difficulty dealing with him because everything he thinks about is just nasty and unethical for me. His growing up is destroying our friendship little by little, and we are having less in common each day. Don't know how long this is going to last.
    So I can just say that life circumstances can change one of the duals to the point that Socionics isn't all that relevant anymore. But still, they would have that "click"

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    You can be duals but still might be incompatible on some important matters. The most obvious one being differences in sexual needs and wants, of course.

    Another is the change of needs as one gets older; when the kids have moved out and all career goals have been met, many people will want to shape themselves into another Self where other things, such as spiritual intimacy, get more important, and step away from the roles they have grown into. Most couples are stuck in role patterns, and the only way to escape those role patterns and make room for this new Self is to break up the relationship.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    I have an EIE-Fe cousin who's married to an LSI-Ti and in the 10+ years of dating before marriage, he never said a nice word about her and always felt pressured in some way. On the day of marriage he almost called it off. Now they have kids, he seems somewhat happy with the setup, but it took almost a decade to get to that point. I think it's a bit of a weird story. Another cousin is SLE-Ti who married an IEI-Fe. They were very into each other and are married with 3 kids. Then it suddenly crumbled out of nowhere, and now they only stay together for the kids and to keep up external appearance. I'm not sure whether cheating is involved, or also other issues. Basically none of the dual marriages or also other relationships, at least in my (extended) family are picture perfect, but I never had the feeling from young age on from what I saw around me that many married people are "happily married". They all seem miserable in one way or another, but maybe that's just life in general. Also I don't think about these relatives often and I don't really have a lot in common with them, it's just when I remember, I realise they interestingly enough they are not really the best-case scenario of duality (at least in my opinion) as its described in socionicz. . .
    Oh, and there was also another SEI-Fe & ILE-Ti long term relationship of one of my relatives which fell apart too, but at least there you can explain it away with personal issues such as alcoholism etc.

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    They already divorced but ILE normalizing and SEI harmonizing. I dont know all details but I think they became too DISTANT (both distant subtypes). Some unwillingness to work on the relationship was also there.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    It would be important how often they break compared with other IR, but not enough data for such comparision.

    just cases
    not long or surface romances are interesting, but lesser as IR is about friendship


    Harrison Ford (ESTJ), Carrie Fisher (INFJ)
    not a long pair. as significant obstacle could be that he had a wife


    Igor Petrenko (ENTJ), Yekaterina Klimova (ISFJ)
    they keep friendly communication. Petrenko has other wife with kids
    Last edited by Sol; 06-17-2020 at 04:53 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    It would be important how often they break compared with other IR, but not enough data for such comparision.

    just cases
    not long or surface romances are interesting, but lesser as IR is about friendship


    Harrison Ford (ESTJ), Carrie Fisher (INFJ)
    not a long pair. as significant obstacle could be that he had a wife


    Igor Petrenko (ENTJ), Yekaterina Klimova (ISFJ)
    they keep friendly communication. Petrenko has other wife with kids
    Ford is LSI and Fisher is ESE
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Ford is LSI and Fisher is ESE
    Be careful with what you say, or you can go keep Sol company on my ignore list.

    FCOL, everbody knows Fisher was IEE and Ford SLI! Any true socionist can see that with their eyes closed!
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    they just want sex without the responsibilities because it’s the easy road
    According to psychologist Esther Perel, most people cheat not because they want sex, they cheat because they want to be a different "I".

    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Be careful with what you say, or you can go keep Sol company on my ignore list.

    FCOL, everbody knows Fisher was IEE and Ford SLI! Any true socionist can see that with their eyes closed!
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    “Funny and emotionally fearless. “

    https://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/c...sheila-weller/
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    “Funny and emotionally fearless. “

    https://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/c...sheila-weller/
    Showing some Fe here-and-there is not yet enough to be considered Fe-dom.

    (before we start arguing whether 'funny and emotionally fearless' surely means only and only Fe)



    (Harrison SLI > LSE, doesn't seem LSI outside of his roles in cinema and don't type someone by their roles; Fischer idk, could be IEE or some other type)


    /off

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    Showing some Fe here-and-there is not yet enough to be considered Fe-dom.

    (before we start arguing whether 'funny and emotionally fearless' surely means only and only Fe)



    (Harrison SLI > LSE, doesn't seem LSI outside of his roles in cinema and don't type someone by their roles; Fischer idk, could be IEE or some other type)


    /off
    Some? From the main thing people remember about her?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Some? From the main thing people remember about her?
    Tbf I didn't read that article, but this is what /Ford/ says about her, and they were really close and in love (so, to him she was like that - but that doesn't even mean she is overall like that). XEEs can be very well funny and fearless (at times). It would be better to type from interviews, biographies and what she had to say about herself. And high Fe could very well mean Fe demo, like IEE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    Tbf I didn't read that article, but this is what /Ford/ says about her, and they were really close and in love (so, to him she was like that - but that doesn't even mean she is overall like that). XEEs can be very well funny and fearless (at times). It would be better to type from interviews, biographies and what she had to say about herself. And high Fe could very well mean Fe demo, like IEE.
    IEE are serious like me #mirror relations
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    IEE are serious like me #mirror relations
    It's not to offend you, but I don't find you serious and/or unfunny. Or for that matter my EII best friend is not that serious. So there is a slim chance I would write words like those quoted on your grave or something (well, I would probably go with kindness in EIIs and care, but whatever)

    If you read about Carrie, she could be pretty serious with words and deeds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    You can be duals but still might be incompatible on some important matters. The most obvious one being differences in sexual needs and wants, of course.

    Another is the change of needs as one gets older; when the kids have moved out and all career goals have been met, many people will want to shape themselves into another Self where other things, such as spiritual intimacy, get more important, and step away from the roles they have grown into. Most couples are stuck in role patterns, and the only way to escape those role patterns and make room for this new Self is to break up the relationship.
    Can you provide any concrete examples from your IRL life where this has occurred between married dual couples?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Can you provide any concrete examples from your IRL life where this has occurred between married dual couples?
    Yes, Lets start with myself first: I (IEE) was in a relationship with an American SLI woman. It would take quite long to discuss how and why this relationship didn't materialize, but the most important factor imho was that the both of us weren't very mature. When you aren't, you are most likely to view at life from an idealistic in stead of a realistic perspective, and in such a case a relationship can be disappointing, e.g. in the sphere of intimacy and sexuality. In hindsight this relationship was better than I considered it at the time, but expectations and immaturity got in the way.

    I knew an LIE-ESI couple that separated already about some 10 years ago. They were already married for quite some years and had three children in their teenage years. He, LIE and VP of a division of a pharmaceutical company, got involved with his much younger secretary. For her he divorced his ESI homemaker wife, who then put up a big legal fight for a large part of his assets and alimony. He lost a lot of money because of that, but he is still happily married to the other woman, with whom he has a daughter now. I think this is a typical scenario that I described above: a couple coming together while young, over the years their relationship grew into a matter roles and responsibilities instead of intimacy, and then one of them found someone else that he could experience intimacy with again. I dunno what the other woman's type is, however, I have not met her so far, as they live abroad.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 06-21-2020 at 09:11 AM.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Yes, Lets start with myself first: I (IEE) was in a relationship with an American SLI woman. It would take quite long to discuss how and why this relationship didn't materialize, but the most important factor imho was that the both of us weren't very mature. When you aren't, you are most likely to view at life from an idealistic in stead of a realistic perspective, and in such a case a relationship can be disappointing, e.g. in the sphere of intimacy and sexuality. In hindsight this relationship was better than I considered it at the time, but expectations and immaturity got in the way.
    So I specifically asked, and it’s in the thread title... “married”. Were you guys married, or not?

    I knew an LIE-ESI couple that separated already about some 10 years ago. They were already married for quite some years and had three children in their teenage years. He, LIE and VP of a division of a pharmaceutical company, got involved with his much younger secretary. For her he divorced his ESI homemaker wife, who then put up a big legal fight for a large part of his assets and alimony. He lost a lot of money because of that, but he is still happily married to the other woman, with whom he has a daughter now. I think this is a typical scenario that I described above: a couple coming together while young, over the years their relationship grew into a matter roles and responsibilities instead of intimacy, and then one of them found someone else that he could experience intimacy with again. I dunno what the other woman's type is, however, I have not met her so far, as they live abroad.
    Ok. Thanks. Finally. Like trying to draw water from a stone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    So I specifically asked, and it’s in the thread title... “married”. Were you guys married, or not?
    Why does that matter?
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    My parents are EIE-LSI and unhappily married. This is a concise representation of what that looks like:



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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Why does that matter?
    Because not all duals are created equal. If people got to the point of marriage then it implies it was (at some point) a better dual match worthy of analyzing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Because not all duals are created equal. If people got to the point of marriage then it implies it was (at some point) a better dual match worthy of analyzing.
    Nonsense. People marry for the craziest of reasons, often out of social custom (and promotion by fairy tale stories that make people believe marriage is the ultimate bliss after which you will live happily ever after) and sheer ignorance. Marriage is a cultural phenomenon, not a psychological one.

    But as far as that SLI woman was concerned, she was my common law wife.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Nonsense. People marry for the craziest of reasons, often out of social custom (and promotion by fairy tale stories that make people believe marriage is the ultimate bliss after which you will live happily ever after) and sheer ignorance. Marriage is a cultural phenomenon, not a psychological one.

    But as far as that SLI woman was concerned, she was my common law wife.
    Yes but most people buy into the idea of duals because they imagine some kind of happily-ever-after partnership, like marriage. So I’m focusing on this scenario, and instances where it has failed, to gain more useful info about it.

    Can’t believe it’s that hard to figure out the purpose of this thread. Thinking of shutting it down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Can’t believe it’s that hard to figure out the purpose of this thread. Thinking of shutting it down.
    If you start a thread, it is unwise to expect people to stay within the lines you want them to stay into. You have a right to express yourself, so have they. If you can't handle that, start a blog to post your views instead of starting a thread were people can discuss things, and you will have full control. I and the other forum members are not ventriloquist puppets.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    @sbbds, I think your goal is worthy but your sample size is nearly nonexistent.

    You might want to accept non-perfect samples, just to get more data, even if it is imperfect, and extrapolate to your desired area of interest.

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    If you start a thread, it is unwise to expect people to stay within the lines you want them to stay into. You have a right to express yourself, so have they. If you can't handle that, start a blog to post your views instead of starting a thread were people can discuss things, and you will have full control. I and the other forum members are not ventriloquist puppets.
    In most threads on here including in this thread, people have been able to provide useful examples. So were you, finally, amazingly. It’s a waste of one’s own time to write in a thread where it isn’t even a contribution, unless it’s trolling. I agreed with your opinion actually but I thought that it was already self-evident.

    @Adam Strange Yes, I don’t mind imperfect examples. “Been together for many years” is close enough. But @consentingadult if you say that a relationship “never materialized”, it means that it never existed lol. Nobody would think that you actually meant that you were married, from that kind of wording.

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    @Adam Strange You were right. Sad dual marriages are almost non existent and people in duality marriages always live happily ever after!

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